A guy stopped going out with me because he was going through a bad financial time and although I never asked him for anything, it seemed like not having enough to invite me really affected him, because he was really trying but it was one of those bad streaks that never seems to end. I would like to know how that affects men.
How do men feel when they cannot provide for the home?
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A guy stopped going out with me because he was going through a bad financial time and although I never asked him for anything, it seemed like not having enough to invite me really affected him, because he was really trying but it was one of those bad streaks that never seems to end. I would like to know how that affects men.
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Bad, ik lots of guys who don’t date if they don’t have money. They will talk to them and sleep with them but once the finances come out they dip.
We have pretty ingrained sense of what is right and wrong… we have to feel of use and being useless has been beaten out of us…
Oh yes.
I didn’t start dating until I could provide. If i can’t take her out for dinner and take her back home, I have no business dating.
We would obviously feel bad.
Though the guy going out with you wasn’t failing to provide for the home.
Confidence means a lot when dating. Just a bit of self sabotage
Many men have a sense of responsibility and duty that, just in my personal experience, women mostly don’t.
Before you down vote me (idc), I’m not saying “all men” this or “all women” that.
Lot of guys see it as their (often primary) duty to provide, and when they can’t, they feel like a failure to their family and themselves.
I feel terrible about it.
You understand why Samurai chose to harakiri or seppuku in order to restore honor for themselves or for their families.
The kind of suicidal depression that gets men to look up life insurance policies. See interview excerpt from Giancarlo Esposito, though I’d recommend giving the whole thing a second monitor listen.
If you care about them, reach out.
Savages dgaf. Upstanding man will experience a loss of esteem.
Pretty bad, the society is always expecting that you need to have a good job or have a great stability before trying to do anything about having a relationship. If you didn’t have a job or are doing something looks like you are taking advantage of other people or your partner.
I haven’t been dating because I haven’t had a job for a while, so money is tight for me. I just think it’s weird for me to ask a woman out if I can’t even pay for the date. That’s a very awkward situation. “Hey, I’d like to take you out, but I don’t have any money. So do you mind covering it?” If a woman asked me out, I would say yes (assuming I’m interested in her) and be honest about my situation. But that would never happen anyway.
If I can’t take care of myself, how can I take care of her? And no, I’m not into traditional 50s type relationships. I believe all duties should be shared in a relationship. But right now, I can’t hold up my part. So I won’t date anyone even though I truly want to.
It probably attributed to his self esteem which became very low. Honestly, he might’ve done you a favor even if it doesn’t look like it. He could’ve been one of those guys where financial hardship REALLY takes a toll on their mental health and personality and they turn into a completely different person. Maybe he didn’t want you to see it.
Or he simply wanted to provide for you or thought a relationship wasn’t feasible due to the financial circumstances.
I don’t think any one should date if they don’t have a stable job lined up, it’s just not feasible and it’s not worth it.
I mean there are questions posed here at least weekly where you get me ask about whether or not they should be dating while living at home or without a steady career/heft income etc etc… so I feel like that is a pretty decent barometer as to how we feel about this topic.
women and kids can just be. A man has to provide and protect.
Yes we deeply regret that no matter how much we do there is still more we need to do!
Simple fact: I felt very happy when mom asked me to take out for a movie I spend more the 2.5k without thinking anything. I will spend all money just to see my mom happy 😊
Horrible.
When I was in that position it felt terrible, honestly. Not being able to provide can really weigh on you, it eats at your sense of worth and responsibility. Even if people around you are supportive, inside it can feel like you’re failing at something deeply tied to who you are. That feeling doesn’t go away easily, and it can sit with you every day.
Have you seen the male suicide rates? There’s your answer.
Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut
you’re vicious.
It feels like shit and like you know the relationship is pretty much over
And what did he say when you were the one inviting him out and paying for everything?
Like a failure. Look up the number 1 cause for divorce. Financial hardship.
A lot of the messaging to men is that their value is what they can provide. So if that part of it isn’t working, can certainly affect some people.
Some dudes are broke and have no trouble. Dating is the only thing keeping them fed. It varies, but most men I know expect to have to make a financial contribution to their family. Very few plan to be the only one contributing financially
Like a bitch. But then I realize I need to lock in. Fix my shit. STFU. & get it done.
I feel on the constant verge of this. My wife doesn’t seem to understand that the mortgage savings account is just that. Mortgage money goes into it for the bank to make payments. Not for her to use as a personal piggy bank. We’re on a forbearance right now because she did it for three months and didn’t say anything about it, until they sent a courier to the house.
I have chest pains constantly. I don’t want to be homeless. I see how hard it is. And having a foreclosure or bk on my record is not what I want.
Men are told, directly or indirectly, that they have to be the “provider”, by their parents, the media and, specially, their partners.
Maybe you are not like this, but when 80-90% of the people tells you that you have to be like that…
Yeah it’s a guy thing. You gotta be able to provide
Useless, worthless, forgotten, used, abandoned, unforgivable, despicable, incompetent, incomplete, inconsiderate, lazy, selfish, hateful, untrustworthy, depressed, suicidal. At least that’s how I feel
Both my wife (Army Airborne) and I (Marine) are military veterans with many deployments between us. She now has a doctorate, and I have moved up within a large cooperation. She earns twice to three times as much as I earn. We began our relationship as a Team. She wins, I win. I lose, she loses. There is no room for ego in a healthy relationship. Support your fireteam and they will support you. Good luck, Gentlemen.
A question for you. Would you be ok being with a man who makes less than you? My wife makes way more than I do. Even while dating, she made more than me.
Aside from the occasional panic attacks, the frustration of dealing with my wife asking to somehow spend more, but also throw a tantrum if I try to change jobs to make more, and the impending sense of going off the financial cliff, it isnt that bad. Sadly, it is less expensive to stay married than to divorce her, and it also allows me a chance to raise my (our) kids to do better.
Im in this financial position right now and I feel horrible that I can’t even spoil my girl. She is buying things for me and filling my truck up and I make more and she tells me not to worry about it but I can’t help but feel useless and that I am just a rock to her right now..
I’ll let you know when it happens, but don’t hold your breath.
Im seeing a woman that earns substantial more than me but she doesnt know. Im paying for everything, its crippling me
Male or female, I don’t think anyone should be preoccupied with dating if their financial house isn’t in order.
I guess if youre 19, whatever. But anyone past school age should be focusing on building a sustainable life first and foremost. Once that is accomplished, then worry about a relationship.
It is probably one of the biggest crushes to a man’s sense of worth. It definitely triggers depression is a lot of men.
It caused me to become a heavy drinker, when I had a career ending injury and my income took a massive hit.
I am a high school teacher, but in a very high COL area. Got out of education once but eventually got laid off and came back. Long-term I would at least like to get out of a teaching job, even if I remain in education.
I still date but I won’t date unless I am super interested in the other person, partly because it’s so expensive and partly because I don’t want my time wasted. She also has to be cool with the fact the fact that I am unlikely to ever be making software engineer/doctor/lawyer money.
Women normally swear up and down that they are at first, but I have seen too many male teachers’ relationships/marriages collapse because of money issues to take women at their word on this.
If I couldn’t, I would not start a home, but work on that part first.
bad
This is why I only date supermodels. They’re the only women I can afford to feed.
There is an expectation men face to provide. Many of my friends have been emasculated because of their lack of financial capability and have had relationships fail as a result of it too
I make decent income for my area, but we are a single income household. My job made it trickier to get overtime so things have been tight. My retired MIL buys my wife and kids all of the cool fancy stuff they want, trips and such, and it’s a constant hit to the ego. I can cover the bills just fine, but don’t have things for other expenses. I’m picking up a job to make extra so we can not live so tight anymore, and actually work on financial growth. I can’t get my wife to understand why I am so stressed out about all of this.
About three years ago, I lost my job amidst a sea of other financial (car, moving twice) issues. This led to debt that I already had nearly doubling. While I have better employment and living circumstances now, paying down this debt is kind of all-consuming. It’s been over three years since I’ve been with anyone, and I have gotten close to people only to pull back when I saw my bank account, or how much my next payment for whatever was. I’d rather get at least a little bit of the albatross off my neck before I feel like trying to date even casually again.
It’s definitely frustrating, and has been a massive blow to my self-esteem, and I do get lonely, but I still dont think trying to get involved with other people would be wise, but it could be another year still before I feel like things are firmly under control.
Like not a man.
I feel just fine. I know my value. It’s intrinsic and has nothing to do with how much material bullshit I can provide.
A couple of times when I was laid off, it was worrisome at first, but I KNEW something would come through. It didn’t. After about 2 months of waiting for work to come back to the shop, I started to look for a new company. No one else has much work, and we’re not hiring.
After going through it a second time, I opened my own. I learned from what others were doing that hurt us, and didn’t do it. I had work all the time, and others wanted to come to work for me. I had a full crew though.
Now set up in retirement, and unless something else goes wrong, I’m good for life.
Because men have been conditioned to protect and provide so much that when they can’t achieve an optimal level of fiscal success and stability, it hits their ego like a truck and they often shut down and sequester themselves out of internal feelings of guilt, shame, insecurities, etc.
ESPECIALLY when it comes to women, some men take it incredibly hard if they’re not enough provider or protector for a woman even going as far as believing they don’t deserve her or deserve a happy relationship. Then again most modern women don’t know how to, or won’t, love unconditionally. So their choices in men actively weigh against how good of protectors and providers they are.
Your case is the first one. Bro is down on his efforts and luck and he probably believes you’d be better off with a better man than him. That or he’s trying to be more responsible with his finances to save himself further financial burdens and bad luck.
Dating costs money. If I was trying to save, I’d probably stop dating too.
Personally it was fucking hard mentally.
I lost my job last year and it took 9 months to get another with a 60% pay cut. (This is in the UK). I went from working at C-Suite level to being a junior on a team in a team in a government department. (No suitable qualifications to go with my level as CEO wasn’t one for paying for qualifications, so it’s all based on experience, which in this job market means jack shit)
That in itself took me a few months to get over.
It’s even harder when you literally are the sole provider as your partner is a full time carer for your disabled son.
Some people deal with it better than others, but I have literally seen people go into a cycle of depression over it because they were off for some time previously due to ill health, but then that caused money problems which led to mental health problems.
The reality is it isn’t talked about enough, and these little support for make mental health in a lot of areas.
My wife initially earned more than me. I’m personally not fussed either way. Was also out of work for a while and was glad I didn’t have to stress as she was earning. If you live together and share finances then it shouldn’t be a question of who, but rather how
Men often equate their value as a partner with their ability to provide.
If he is having a tough financial time and cannot cover his own bills it is unsurprising that he would feel he cannot ask you on a date which he feels would require him to pay for an outing he cannot afford.
You can ask him out and be explicit that you are paying. Some men would reject that feeling that it degrades his worth as a provider.
It depends. If the couple decides that because the woman makes more money and it makes sense for the Man to be “stay-at-home” because of kids, domestic engineering, then I see no shame in that. Even when the Man works and the Woman makes considerably more, I also think that should work. Anytime where the Man feels “inadequate” because he’s not the “primary” breadwinner, that is just a continuance of Patriarchy, which I think most of us want to abolish.
I’ll add another voice, because I’m in a somewhat difficult financial position. I can’t provide everything the way I would like to right now. But I also want to find someone to build a life with. And I understand that even if I can’t provide now, if I find her and start making a life with her, my ability to provide will grow.
Here are the rules I go by:
We’re not going somewhere I can’t afford to pay for.
She is allowed to pay for a date if she can successfully swipe the bill or sneak the cash into my wallet/pocket/etc without me catching her in real time.
When 14 CFR 61.113 applies, she is allowed to pay pro rata. (This is a cost limit on flying that’s imposed by the FAA, basically I’m letting her pay only as much as the FAA says she can)
Certain high dollar things like airfare are exempt. All other aspects of a trip must follow the first 3 rules.
Souvenirs may be exempt. Depends on price and what else we’re doing. If not exempt, the first 3 rules apply.
Have you tried saying anything to him? “It’s fine, i like when we’re together, i can pay for this date” or something similar?
I feel kind of sad for men like that. A man who thinks all he brings to the table is being a provider is like a woman who considers herself a warm wet hole.
Inadequate. It’s one part of my long list of reasons I don’t feel good enough and don’t try dating.
I am a contractor so it’s normal, occasionally, for me to be outside of contract. I have noticed, when I am, I become very conscious of every expense and become incredibly inward focussed to the exclusion of everyone around me, even though I know I have a financial “safety net”. For me, at least, a perceived inability to provide for the people I care about is crippling.
I think it goes right to the core of men in relationships. There’s an ever present expectation to provide for everyone that’s tied to the respect given to a man as well as their own self-respect.
It’s not about ego, but perceived value. When you can’t perform your primary function in a relationship, you have no security and the door opens for someone else that can.
Too many women will outright lose respect for their partner if they become the provider and leave. Many women won’t even consider dating a man that can’t provide or elevate her lifestyle.
Men know this, so yeah, it’s easier to just excuse yourself from the situation than to go through the motions of the eventual humiliation and rejection.
There’s also no point to even trying to date if you can’t afford to. There’s no issue for women to date if they’re broke because the man is expected to pay, or at worst go 50/50. For men, it’s a complete non-starter.
It’s like our one social responsibility. Sadly.
Personally I think all this provider stuff is a bunch of macho bs. Women these days all have full time jobs they don’t need you to buy everything for them they can provide for themselves (and if they can’t that’s a huge red flag). What it does make me feel bad about it is not being able to pull my own weight in the relationship. Being a burden on someone else feels very bad. Dating is expensive. If you can’t afford it you shouldn’t do it.
Not like a man.
Men have got to stop thinking they can do it. Life is too expensive and you’re going to sit around and be broke trying to impress everyone else. Tell her to get up and work. But you have to pull your weight around the house
Dunno the feeling. I’ve been providing since I was 17. There’s always hot meal on the table no matter how bad the situation was.
Just the worst sense of failure, inferiority, and worthlessness.
Women cannot respect or like men who make less than them.
Single 63yr old male that just lost my job. I could not think of anything more destructive to my pride.
P.S. I would not cut you out of my life but I would keep you at arms length and let you know why.
I wouldn’t for a second feel bad, if that’s what you’re asking. Home-ownership became a two-person gig back in the 80s. Thinking it should be the responsibility of one person today is laughable.
I like to have some money of my own and not be overly dependent on my partner, but I don’t feel any need to provide for both of us as long as we’re both fed and housed. But I might not be normal, I’m very progressive and my mom was always the primary earner growing up
By brother is paying for the full rent of his wife and child and pays the bills and the groceries, his wife told him that even though they barely have enough to buy clothes she can complain to him because he’s working every day. He still feels guilty.
How do men feel when they cannot provide for the home?
Not good because I am the provider. If I can’t buy it we don’t get it
It’s kinda like with women and looks. Or perhaps with women and how they’re typically judged for how they keep their home or cooking. There’s this idea of having something intrinsically tied to your self-worth. You know that more or less as a man.You are going to be judged by how well you take care of those you love. Most of us don’t even fight it. We want to be a good support for our family. Maybe you don’t judge him, but he judges himself by that metric. It’s the one I judge myself by. I don’t want to be valued only for my ability to provide. But it is one of the aspects of who I am that I value.
I haven’t paid rent in months while living with my brother cuz I can’t afford shit. I feel guilty and I feel like ass.
Even today, after splitting bills for years, i struggle to accept even £5 for food off my SO… it was so entrenched that the man provides for the woman that it just seems ridiculous.
But then I’m the same with accepting money or a meal paid for by male friends.. just never sits right me when i know i won’t come to any harm from missing out.
Shame is lived differently by women and men.
According to social psychology researcher brené Brown, you can distill down male shame into a single phrase (paraphrasing as I read the book in German):
“don’t be a loser.”
Don’t be weak,
don’t fail to provide,
don’t fail to protect,
don’t fail to keep track of everything.
This applies to everything from finances to competitive working environments to performance in the bedroom. And if you do fail, don’t admit it. Most people won’t be understanding of you being overwhelmed. Often not even the ones who told you they would. They will view you differently, once you openly displayed this kind of weakness. Many do so involuntarily.
So, what do you do, if you can’t be sure about your feelings of insufficiency being met with understanding and acceptance? You just “man up” and keep going.
It takes a truckload of work and commitment, combined with an enormous trust to draw a man out of this toxic and self -harming psychological behavior. It takes affirmation and a sense of security to open up about and overcome these problems.
Big reading recommendation for “Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead” by Brené Brown
I suspect most men would feel emasculated and inadequate. I know I would be. Regardless of what you think you believe about gender roles, a man’s innate desire is to be a provider for his family. It’s a deeply ingrained societal role that goes back thousands of years for good reason.
It reminds me of the old joke (if you will) about a good neighborhood versus a bad one. Go to a neighborhood in the middle of the day. If you see a bunch of women out having lunch, going to a from yoga etc, you’re in a good neighborhood. But if you see a bunch of men around doing nothing in the middle of the day, you’re in a bad hood.
If we can’t provide for the home, I don’t know about other guys, but personally, it would make me feel worthless.
I have a traditional mindset, so I want to be the provider. If I can’t fulfill expected obligations, I would want to pick myself up first, then date again once I’m more ready. But more than that, I would want to give my partner a good life. If I can’t provide for the home and, in turn, that’s contributing to her struggles or I’m failing to give her what she deserves (even if she doesn’t ask for it), then I would feel bad about it.
It’s a terrible feeling. If you can’t afford to invite a date to dinner or anywhere else, you just feel useless and unworthy of dating someone.
I have always thought I had the responsibility to provide for my wife and kids. I always put their needs ahead of mine. Wife and I are retired now and every decision I make about our life and finances has her best interest in mind. If something happened to me, everything is already set up. I see that as my responsibility. I turn 65 next year and I will finally start to splurge some on myself. My wife is set up nice.
Sounds like a man of high integrity, I fully understand his decision making.
I’d feel like a loser. And have.
Currently in this situation where I cannot provide financially for the home. It feels embarrassing and humiliating. Have a very understanding and supportive partner, and hopefully things will be changing soon.
When you say you never asked him for anything, who paid most of the time? Not accusing you of anything, just from my experience men pay 90%+ of the time, and when women do its on the cheeper side, like making dinner at home.
This is something a lot of men struggle with. Clearly, he was hurt from this, and it’s possible he was in some bad relationships that were about the money he made. The economy is just terrible and it’s almost impossible for one person to even provide for a family nowadays.The only thing I can suggest is that if you still care about him, reassure him that it doesn’t matter to you. Let him know you’re willing to contribute to helping him if you end up having a future together. Relationships are a team effort. Some teams work differently than others. If the husband can’t provide, then both partners can. If you communicate this to him, not only do you have a chance to fix things between you and him, but he will be stronger than he was when he gave up. But that’s if you’re still interested in him.
This is why it’s important to have the difficult conversations with her or him early on so that you guys have the clear understanding of each others expectations before emotions get involved.
I’m the sole money earner in our household due to personal reasons I won’t disclose – we didn’t plan our lives like this. Anyway, yes I truly feel like a failure when this happens. The recession of ‘07, ’08 & ‘09 just about killed me.
In short, it is our duty to provide provision and when that is not done as a MAN we are internally crushed. We feel useless and worthless and even non existent to the world.
Sad, not proud
My fiancee makes more than me. The idea that the male can be a sole breadwinner is a 1950s possibility and a 2025 myth for most people. And the idea that the man has to make more is just toxic.
You kinda helped the argument that any guy will make by saying you never asked him for anything. As men it’s expected of us to eventually take on the role of the provider. We are expected to provide even if as they say, don’t ask for it, even if they do it’s still expected. I wouldn’t want to put my future partner in a position where I can’t provide for the home and i wouldn’t want a partner that can’t provide what a woman would provide to the home.
I think it could be the shame of not being self sufficient or it could just be that he feels the need to focus and get to it. Maybe he feels a woman is distraction he can’t afford?
I don’t really care much for traditional gender dynamics – they never worked for me so I wouldn’t want to put myself inside that framework. So, when I encountered financial hardship, which has happened a few times in my life, I’ve never felt guilty or worthless. Worried a little, but I was still young and had confidence in my skills, and it always worked out.
Then I got married, and I was confident that my wife would stick by me through financial hardship. Maybe not indefinitely, but for a reasonably long time. Then it happened – I quit my job and started a business, and the first 6-8 months were pretty tight. This was discussed, she knew it would be tight, she encouraged me to go for it, we were on the same page. And then just one month in we no longer were – she didn’t feel secure, didn’t feel confident that I would make it, and was considering divorce. Plot twist: I’m an immigrant and my immigration status is tied to our marriage. So that was a scare.
Long story short, I made it, we didn’t divorce, and she is in therapy. But now the prospect of not being able to provide is horrifying. What if we fall on hard times and she wants to leave again? What if she does? I’ll be deported and the place I’ll be deported to is not safe. I’ll likely be killed.
My situation is extreme, but I feel like it does represent the situation of many men. We’re not ashamed of potentially not being providers – we’re afraid of being shamed for failing to provide. We’re afraid of the consequences that will be inflicted upon us for failing to provide.
That she ain’t doing enough
Ok… I guess I’m in the minority here but I have absolutely ZERO desire to ‘provide’ for anyone.
Well, yeah. I mean if I can’t even afford to treat a woman to a damn cheeseburger, then I failed somewhere bad, and need to look inward, focus, and get my shit squared away, period. Whether or not she can perhaps afford her own cheese is besides the point. If I chose to play that particular role as a provider, which for many is a very traditional gender and/or familial role as well, occupied by their fathers and grandfathers before them….yeah failing at that role would cut deep.
It’s not that he feels that way, it’s the fact that you will feel the same eventually.
I didn’t start my relationships until the offer letter was in my hand. Even then, the money wasn’t enough. I actively dated when I had more money than the first job.
Romance without finance is a nuisance. If I am without a job or in a financial bind, I am not doing anything but working to solve my issue.
> I would like to know how that affects men.
You just saw how it did.