This isn a throwaway as I don’t want this linked to my main account. I (30M) have a daughter we will call Dyann with my ex-wife (46F). We were only together for 3 years. I met my ex at 22 years old, we married when I was 24 and had Dyann, then at 25 we divorced.
Near the end of our relationship my ex turned vegan, which hurt our already rocky marriage as she immediately all the sudden wanted me, our daughter and even my two dogs to become vegan (she found this ‘amazing’ vegan dog food that we tried once and the dogs had diarrhea for about 12 hours after trying it for the first time). My daughter also, hated the vegan food, and my wife hated that I wouldnt force her to eat it. I myself also hated the vegan food. My ex-wife married Dyann’s step dad, and this is where I think the problems started as my wife didn’t really force our daughter to be vegan till step dad came along.
Our custody arrangement is Dyann comes to me on weekends, and goes to her moms during the week. For the past year my ex-wife and her husband have had our daughter on a full vegan diet whenever shes over there and tries to get me to enforce the diet but I haven’t. Shes also been ‘educating’ our daughter on the terribleness of the meat and diary industry.
The result is a daughter that I think is not getting the proper nutrients as shes always groggy, shes been less energetic, shes very irritable, and seems to always be tired. That enough is a concern, but she also cries everytime she comes over and sees my dogs chase a squirrel because its hurting animals, cries if the clothes I have here might have wool in them because it hurts to sleep, she cries when she sees honey in my cabinet cause it took abusing bees for that, cries if anything involves eggs or milk because were stealing from cows and chickens. She constantly talks about the poor cows and chickens are hurt in farms. My daughter was never like this before. Shes been so sad lately, won’t even colour with godamn crayons cause it ‘took hurting animals to get those’ and it breaks my heart. I own 11 hens, Dyann used to love helping with these hens like collecting their eggs and named all of them. But now, she cries and begs me not to hurt chickens and stop stealing their babies. I don’t use my chickens for meat, only eggs, and I don’t have rooster yet to fertilze the eggs. Yet my ex-wife seems to have her convinced I am a horrible animal abuser and my chickens are suffering everyday. I take damn good care of those chickens for anyone wondering. All this stuff didn’t happen over night, its been more gradual and has gotttsn exetreme lately.
My daughter used to be such a happy girl and healthy girl but now I feel her health has gone down and her shes seems so sad all the time. I didn’t quite know what to do, and I still don’t but I decided to chat with my ex-wife about around a week or two ago.
When I showed up at her house on Friday to grab Dyann and take her to my house I asked to talk. The conversation went something like I asked her about what she teaches Dyann about veganism, my ex-wife said she explained to Dyann how bad hurting animals is and all the things that go on inside farms, I asked her if shes telling Dyann I am an animal abuser and said basically “if she comes to the natural conclusion based on the truth” and then I asked if hers been monitoring our daughters health and she said it isn’t my concern and the diet is healthy. It is totally my concern. And from there I got angry and it turned into an argument where during I said my wife was abusing Dyann by forcing this diet on her. My ex-wife did not like this and she started screaming at me, and in a moment I am not proud of I screamed back. Luckily Dyann was still inside the house getting ready to go. The argument stopped when she came outside and I left.
My wife has now involved my family who I am low contact with (long history there, I dated a guy in my teens. They didn’t like that, divorced my wife and they also didn’t like that), and now my family is telling me not to be so cruel to the mother of my child. I do not feel I was cruel. I feel I was honest. My daughter literally seems depressed. I am not proud for yelling at my ex-wife but I also feel I was justified in my anger at her. I don’t care what my wife does, I care how it affects Dyann. I don’t have many people to talk to and I am feeling a bit guilty after all of that. I shouldn’t have screamed and I have never really addressed this stuff properly with Dyann. AITAH?
Comments
No, you’re not the asshole! you’re a concerned parent. It’s okay to be upset when you see your child struggling, especially if it seems tied to something being pushed on her. You lost your temper, sure, but your worry is valid. Focus now on calmly advocating for Dyann’s well-being maybe with a pediatrician or therapist involved. Her health and emotional state come first!
NTA, but instead of arguing with your ex, you need to get your daughter to a doctor and a therapist to assess her physical and mental health. If your ex tries to stop you, call your lawyer.
NTA, but please get your daughter a doctor and therepist appointment. And talk to a lawyer, she’s putting the kid in danger
NTA. The vegan diet is completely lacking in vital brain nutrients (that come from animal protein). When vegans talk about brain fog, this is why. It’s not sustainable long-term. It is abusive to force a vegan diet on a child.
Therapy NOW!
Admittedly, I didn’t read the last part because it got too ridiculous. There’s nothing any of us can do to help you here. You need to get a therapist and you need to have your daughter see this therapist and then take the findings to a judge. You’re going to have to go for soul custody. But you’re going to need what the therapist and her pediatrician says. You need to take her for a full physical ASAP! You should have a baseline which was her last physical so you need to take her for another one soon and ask the doctor what they recommend. The doctor will say whether she is doing good or not. The doctor will give recommendations and then the next time you go in you can compare what how she’s doing with how she was now.
But you’re going to need all those professionals! We can’t help you here. This is so far above our pay grade it’s not even funny.
But personally, I had a friend whose ex was like this. He would manipulate the daughter by telling her something is poison. So Hershey bars are poison. Anything process is poison. Anything he didn’t want her to eat is poison. This went on for years no matter how. She tried to get the kid to eat normal stuff and she would sneak things in that the kid wouldn’t even know weren’t things he would approve of but she would do this to keep the kid healthy.
Then the day came that one of the kids from her school died in a car accident. My friend sat her daughter down to explain that her little friend had died and would no longer be at school and there was going to be a therapist she can talk to at the school if she needed to and all this and after all was said and done the only thing child said was “But what did she eat that she died?” My friend immediately filed for sole custody. Luckily he got freaked out enough by almost losing the daughter that he quit doing that. But imagine being a child and being told things you see your friends eating are poison? Imagine the mental struggle they’re going through daily when they have parents like this!
Get all those professionals involved. I mentioned. It’s your only chance
YTA if you don’t lawyer up.
NTA, as stated above a therapist and a doctor would be amazing support for you and your daughter.
Also just a side note- her forcing the dogs to be vegan is animal abuse… so her implying you are by eating your unfertilised chicken eggs for example is very delusional of her
Sounds like she’s trying to alienate you too
I would tell your daughter that vegans like her mom murder pets
It’s abuse and you need to call cps asap
NTA. A vegan diet is not suitable for an adult much less a developing child. It’s fine that your ex wants it for herself because she’s old enough to make decisions. You ex is a maniac though. In order to get the vitamin b12 that your daughter needs for development she has to give her supplements. Instead if she ate meat she could get it fron the natural fats
NTA, massive indoctrination as a child is harmful no matter what the belief is (I know people with unhealthy beliefs from being raised by a staunch feminist and I am a feminist myself). It’s important you go to a doctor to get her bloods checked for vitamin levels, to see if there’s any deficiencies or anaemia. The best way to handle something like this would be if your ex communicated with you about it, if your daughter was taught things in a much healthier and more gentle way, and then she was allowed to decide for herself what she wants to eat.
Also want to echo the calls for seeing a therapist!
Take her to her doctor and tell them how she acting,
NTA. Veganism is not inherently bad for kids if done right with the guidance of a nutritionist and pediatrician, I chose veganism myself as a kid on my own and my parents supported my decision as long as I did so with help. I highly doubt that’s what is happening here. No kid should be forced on any diet, period, especially one that isn’t meeting their basic nutritional needs.
You shouldn’t have screamed, you should have gotten her to a clinic to get some complete blood tests (that shows vitamins) and call child support.
Lawyer up immediately. Then get your kid to a doctor to find out if she has any nutritional deficiencies, which can lead to a host of medical and intellectual problems, then follow up by getting her in therapy. Talk to her school and see if her grades have dropped and if she is interacting with her peers appropriately. If she’s that way about animals with you, I guarantee she’s that way with her friends.
NTA, she is traumatising your child and setting her up to develop mental health problems. Take her to the doctors and get her some blood work done as she may be anaemic if she’s tired and groggy all the time. Also get her into therapy and see if you may possibly have a case to file for full custody or at least be able to reduce the time spent and her Mums place.
OP put your daughter first and take her to the doctors. Depending on what they say go for full custody.
Nta. Take your daughter to get checked out and if shes not healthy call cps on your ex.
Kids have to have source of fat. Their brains are growing, they don’t have fat, you starve their brain.
They also need whole proteins, something you can’t get from a vegan diet. People who force things on children for ideological reasons , such as , they think eating animals is mean, should probably get screened by a phycologist.
NTA but you need to hire an attorney like yesterday. Your wife is basically abusing your daughter by not ensuring that she is getting the proper vitamins and nutrients for a growing child. Ignore all the noise from the naysayers and all the negativity from these people get your daughter to a doctor and then get an attorney and save your child.
Having dairy and eggs would help a lot. But beyond that the negativity from your ex is ruining your kid
NTA; you need to also explain the misinformation here. Like that sheering sheep does not hurt them. It is actually animal abuse NOT to do it, as they no longer have the means to shed their wool. It gets heavy, bulky, and can lead to health issues when not shorn. It’s inhumane to make a sheep suffer through it, especially because if a farm is in wool, it’s just a haircut for them (well a buzz cut lol) & doesn’t bother them in the slightest. The sheep are well taken care of because that’s their income. Wool is a natural fibre, that’s why it’s expensive.
I am on a physician monitored anti-inflammatory diet, non-dairy & gluten, so I eat a lot of vegan products. Guess what else? I take supplements and am told to still eat fish & chicken or else I’ll get sicker. Why? Because a totally vegan diet is not sustainable long term for our bodies. Why do you think a lot of vegan celebrities end up being told by their doctors to start eating meat again?
You are 100% correct that this is abuse. You should be going to court with your ex & getting your kid to a doctor AND a therapist. Your ex has done a lot of damage already, and you need to jump quick-time to get on top of it. Good luck, OP.
As a vegan parent to a vegan/vegetarian 11 year old. Your ex wife IS abusing her. Please take her to a doctor for both physcial and mental. Your exwife is traumatizing, not educating. That is not okay. The pediatrician can do a quick panel and tell you if anything is off. We do it every 6 months, i do it with him, never had an issue in 5 years but we are what you call “junk food vegans”. I still make all meals just meatless versions. We have lactose issues, strictly related to cows milk enzymes. Guess what? Almond milks come foreitified and taste amazing. There’s a lot of accidentally vegan/vegetarian foods out there if your kiddo WANTED to. But seems they are more “plant based” and that’s easier for younger kids than showing/telling them violent things to control them to thinking one way. Which is why the freak outs. Conflict is what she hears during the week to your few weekend days. A lot of home cooked meals subbed with this or that, goes a long way in helping your kiddo heal with food and developing an eatinf disorder can happen this young. So sorry you are having to do this. Some people really go the wrong crazy for vegan. Make meals with your daughter. Show her how it’s made so they aren’t freaking out. Avoid meat for the weekends or just the meatless patties subs. I know you may not like it but help your kid transition into understanding they have a choice and you will be there to support them but you can tell they are struggling with the differnt households and what is being said. A kid therapist would be great for food insecurities and yes, it is becoming one, she’s freaking out with the dogs chasing squirrels. She needs to understand the food chain properly and not that humans are just being cruel to animals for food purposes. You have a long journey with your ex and im sorry for the future struggles. I hope you can be there for your daughter and she KNOWS you are there. Best of luck.
Everything dies,everything kills, everything has “basic feelings.” Even plants NTAH. Theres ethical ways to farm if you’re focusing on self sustainability and not exponential growth. Also this kind of thinking is bad for your daughter cause it will turn her into an animal abuser. For example cats and dogs can’t eat vegan. Not possible.
The real abuse is naming her “Dyann” lol
Ok, this topic is really easy to get heated. I used to be vegan and all it took was me saying “I am vegan” and people would immediately fly into an extreme rage. They took it extremely personally and would go on the attack against me. So I say this to preface that it’s very easy to be biased here. It’s really important to put the emotion aside so work through this objectively.
So let’s do this.
The diet itself might not be abusive so long as she’s getting all the nutrition she needs. You’ve commented about her mood and energy. This might not be caused by diet, but easily could be (it’s not uncommon for vegans to be tired if they don’t manage their diet properly) so it’s an important factor to assess. Take her to a GP or nutritionist/dietician. They can help figure this out.
You are supporting the animal industry. Your daughter isn’t necessarily wrong about the crayons or wool, but she’s clearly too young to understand it or at least the way your ex is explaining it seems unnecessarily emotive. It sounds like she’s really hammering the “it’s hurting them” point to the extent it’s quite traumatic for your daughter. I’d be concerned about the psychological impact this is having. Also, as you said, it sounds like you are taking care of your chickens. This is a level of nuance that sounds like it is not being explained to your daughter. Its not necessarily wrong to raise a child vegan, but hoe you deliver the information matters and i get the impression your ex i doing this in a way that causes trauma and manipulates your daughter to comply. This is supposition on my part but I don’t like the sound of it.
Your ex commented it’s not your concern. It is. You are both parents, therefore you are equally entitled to determine hoe your daughter is raised. Unless there’s some kind of court order dictating that your ex gets all the say, you are absolutely within your rights to question everything. It’s even more important in a dual custody situation to communicate and agree how the kids are raised. Children need consistency and stability. That’s being undermined right now and isn’t good for her or you.
Based on all of the above, I’d recommend going to medical experts. Look at her diet. Explain your concerns about her psychological well-being. If it works out that they are concerned for her well-being then use that to push for you being the primary caregiver and limit your exes interactions. Then raise her how you see fit, vegan or otherwise.
I would speak to your lawyer who handles custody if this is parent alienation. Also, can the court require an examination by an independent doctor to ensure your daughter health and development on track.
Nta
A few problems serious problems here.
1, she’s alienating your daughter with her animal cruelty talk and basically painting you as an animal abuser. That’s a huge major no no and family courts really do not take kindly to that. I would tell your divorce lawyer your ex is doing this and is harming your relationship with your kid, and is generally harming your kid.
2, she’s forcing a diet your kid is not into, you see evidence she’s not getting thriving on it. Is there anything in your divorce agreement about diets and medical decisions regarding your kid? You need to get her evaluated for physical issues and if she wants to eat vegan, you need to stipulate it be guided by a certified nutritionist.
3, it sounds like your kid is becoming depressed and anxious. She needs to be evaluated by a therapist, a psychiatrist, not just a primary doctor. Kids can get depressed and it sure sounds like your ex is contributing.
4, you need to talk to your lawyer asap and get all this documented to take next steps. Who has medical decision making power? Can you take her yourself for a checkup? Or does your ex need to do it?
Kind of feels like you need to take control and begin documenting and maybe make plans to take full or primary custody.
Connect with a therapist and lawyer
The vegan mother is teaching her daughter things to make her critical of things in his life. He needs to tell his divorce lawyer what is happening. She is intentionally alienating her child from her ex-husband. The fact that what used to be a healthy, fun-loving, healthy child has changed so drastically is definitely cause for concern. He needs to document everything and take her to a doctor. That might be challenging on a weekend. He might have to go to an Urgent Care or an Emergency Room for evaluation. I’d be very concerned about her mental health, too. Her mother and stepfather say he is hurting animals by stealing milk and eggs. Sheep need to be shor and it would be a waste not to use their fleece for wool clothing. I saw a sheep that had wandered from the herd for almost 2 years. Its fleece was so thick it could vmbarely more or see.
ESH. You two need to learn how to coparent without traumatizing her and you’re both failing. Shame on both of you. Seek some professional help and learn how to exist peacefully with your differences.
NTA. You need to get your daughter to a therapist and a doctor and you should also probably go see a therapist. Your wife was pretty much a predator. You need to work through that.
NTA
Go to court, get full custody.
You need to get an attorney, and then seek a parenting mediator. None of this is healthy.
NTA.
Are you prepared to go back to court for custody?
Your ex wife is practicing parental alienation. Your daughter could have a vegan lifestyle without the horror stories. It doesn’t sound like your ex’s animal husbandry education is age appropriate. Your ex knows you have chickens and knows how to paint you as the villain without saying your name.
You should also take care to educate your daughter about the realities of some of the foods you eat. Bees aren’t hurt by harvesting honey. Eggs aren’t fertilized so they will never be chicks. Sheering sheep doesn’t hurt them and modern breeds require it. Industry farms can be horrific. You can buy local beef/pork/lamb that has been humanely raised and harvested. You can purchase seafood that is responsibly sourced.
I strongly recommend not letting this go.
NTA! After getting your daughter a blood panel and a therapist, use the information to apply for sole custody. Your ex is nuts & your child will be too if she remains w her full-time.
NTA she is traumatizing a young child in order to push her agenda, while also failing to provide her enough nutrition to keep her physically well. She is telling her misinformation as I recall being told that sheep actually need to be sheared for their own comfort, and unfertilized eggs are of no use to chickens. If she balks at getting your child therapy get the courts involved.
Nta but have you reached out to her teachers? I would take her to urgent care for full blood work to see if she is severely anemic. I would not trust your ex. Updateme
Get your daughter an appointment with the paediatrician and get her blood levels checked especially her iron levels and b12. Getting this a priority would give you an objective proof that she’s not getting the proper nutrients.
First NTA.
Second, I’m going to assume based on context that your daughter is in primary/elementary school. What your ex is doing is pretty harmful in terms of parenting and imprinting a worldview. Pretty much all modern research concludes that it is healthiest when separated albeit co-parents have value alignment.
Third, there is quite a bit of academic literature on the (lack of) dietary value and risks and benefits of a vegan diet for children under a certain age with the general consensus holding the view that it should be avoided unless recommended by a qualified medical practitioner.
Fourth, in terms of the undue ‘harm’ inflicted on animals in the agriculture industry, it seems like your ex is picking and choosing. For example, you mentioned wool – many sheep species require regular sheering (which is then processed into wool) to prevent skin issues, overheating, etc.
Overall, it seems like your ex is laying some pretty harmful ideological breadcrumbs (to justify your daughter ‘coming to her own conclusions’) and I would probably seek an attorney and document these observations and conversations.
Vegan diets don’t suit little bodies that need fuel to grow and learn. It would be worth getting the appropriate blood tests and enquiring how she’s doing at school. Do get some legal advice beforehand so it doesn’t cause issues with consent to treatment etc. If she was a teenager and it was personal choice and taking the appropriate supplements then that’s different but kids can’t handle it.
She is garbage! Just because she wants to be a tree hugger that isn’t as healthy as others, doesn’t mean everyone else does ! That is abuse in a different form. Teaching the child that she has no options in life to have free will
NTA. If there is nothing else you can do, call CPS and let them do an investigation. They CAN mandate doctor visits for your daughter, and therapy if deemed appropriate.
Vegan diets are very tough on young kids. They need so many nutrients while they are growing, and cutting out most of their protein is irresponsible. Plus, how is she going to eat at school? Or when she’s old enough to have outings with her friends? And I think scaring her into eating vegan is also irresponsible. I don’t agree with cruelty to animals, but I also understand the food chain and that human brains would not have evolved if our diets, going back to the cave people days, did not include animal products. I do agree that most people in the United States eat way more meat them they need to, and not enough plants, but this is different from putting a growing child on a very strict vegan diet that she may not be able to implement outside of her own home.
A full physical and blood work need to be done to assess her basic nutrition. Then you speak to an attorney and go before a judge. It’s not about the attitude toward the anti-vegan life, it is about knowing how to PROPERLY feed a very young person. Kids need proper nutrition in order to grow. They also need energy for the growth going on in their body. I’ve been vegetarian for close to 25 years now, and it took years for me, as an adult, to really figure out what works best for my body. I would never impose my diet on a child.
She can have an attitude with you; that’s par for the course in the lives of many divorced people. What she cannot do is basically starve your child. Get her help. And a protection order.
NTA
I would go one step further and call CPS on your ex-wife because she is actively harming your child’s mental health.
Nta. Get your daughter medically and mentally assessed. I’d fight the courts for more custody. It’s one thing to be vegan yourself, but it’s not ok to force others
Go after 50/50 custody, ask the pedi for routine blood work to check deficiencies, and push for therapy for your daughter. Your her father… Lawyer up and act like it instead of being a sideline spectator.
You need to intervene with a lawyer for custody you can’t make her take care of Dyann properly you are going to have to get a judge with a court order
Your wife is indocrinating your daughter. Your daughter has a sponge of a brain..Both parent and step parent 5 days a week.
Your ex is working on a fear basis to instill behaviour.
Look up cult. Many vegans are great but one like your wife become obsessed.
Your daughter should see a doctor for any underlying issues, lack of deficit in something
NTA. Get your daughter to a doctor to run a myriad of basic health tests; make sure all her blood levels are in normal ranges, she’s developing properly, and is in a normal weight range for her age. I’d also recommend getting her to a therapist if some kind, you too. You are going to need Angelo addressing this when she comes over.
I would also meet with your lawyer to discuss custody again.