My brother’s girlfriend, who I will call Sally, wants to teach our four year old daughter witchcraft. Sally said she wants to teach her about the different energies and how they balance and about harmony with nature. My wife and I told Sally that we appreciate her interest in our daughter and wanting to spend time with her, but we don’t want her to do that.
Sally thinks we are assholes, which, to be honest, I don’t care about at all. What surprised me was my own brother siding against me. He said we should let our daughter learn about different religions and that it will be good for her. My wife and I will certainly teach our daughter about other religions, but we don’t need Sally to do that. Also our daughter doesn’t need to learn how to practice paganism in order to learn what paganism is and the history of the different types.
My wife said she doesn’t want my brother’s girlfriend to babysit for us because the whole situation freaks her out a little bit. My brother and Sally are both very offended. My brother mentioned the situation to my dad, who is a staunch atheist with absolutely no tact and made fun of Sally for her “silly voodoo nonsense.” Now my brother isn’t talking to my dad, and everyone is mad at me because this is all my fault somehow?
Are we in the wrong, or is my family crazy? Or neither. Could be neither.
Comments
Religion is stupid but that child is yours.
NTA, your family is for sure in the wrong. They need to respect your wishes when it comes to YOUR child, no matter what those wishes are.
Sally can teach her own kids whatever she want. You make the decisions for your own kids till they are old enough to make educated decisions for themselves
NTA – Nobody should feel entitled to indoctrinate your children into their belief system, whether it’s mainstream or fringe. If Sally wants an apprentice she should have her own kid.
Your kid, your rules. Four years old is way too young for someone else’s partner to be introducing religious or spiritual practices, especially without your consent. If she wants to, she’ll grow up and explore whatever she wants on her own
NTA, the kid is to young for any religion tbh, teaching her even about a more basic religion (like Christianity or Buddhism) would be indoctrination. My advice is to wait until she’s a teen to talk her about different religions and practices if she shows interest in it, but all this is not necessary tbh
You guys are good
NTA. If your daughter should ever show interest in religions and want to learn somethig then she has to make the first step. Not your brother’s girlfriend indoctrinating your daughter.
NTA – No chance in hell I’d allow that.
Religions and philosphies are foundational. You get final say, not even a question. NTA
NTA.
Absolutely none of her damn business.
Religion really needs to be the realm of the parents. The kid is too young to be handling multiple theories of spirituality
Raised pagan. Bruh, what a weird and messed up thing to request to teach a 4 year old that isn’t even your own. NTA at all
Nta shes 4, let her just play. Your SIL and brother are being weird
1st, its not witchcraft. Its Wicca. 2nd, NTA. You decide what your minor child learns.
Your child, your rules.
All the other nonsense is just that.
NTA. She’s 4!! wtf
NTA. She could teach kids about magical energies if any of them were scientifically proven.
NTA
If they can’t respect how you want to raise your daughter and want to push their ideas onto a 4 year old while being angry with you about your own convictions, they aren’t to be trusted. She’s only 4. Why on earth are they even introducing this at her age? Disrespectful people don’t get to be in the safe circle.
NTA.
Your house, kid, and rules. I think 4 is too young to learn about most religious stuff based on what I’ve personally seen and experienced but I wouldn’t see the harm in it when she’s older.
Keep your daughter away from Sally!
NTA. Well, I do agree children benefit from learning about different faiths and perspectives, but tutoring a four year old on any religion isn’t really a great thing to my mind. And whatever faith you as parents hold should go first, obviously.
NTA. So long as it doesn’t affect the health and/or safety of the child, parents get final say.
sally is cuckoo.
heck no, i wouldn’t let her anywhere around my daughter
lol NTA, she can teach her own kids whatever she wants, and let other parents parent their kids. geez.
Your kids your rules.
While I myself have learned some stuff in that field, I would absolutely not try to teach my own daughter at such a young age. Shes still a baby she doesn’t need that in her head yet. I think yall did the right thing. Tell them to f off. She can teach her own child when the time comes
Your child. You decide.
How bout you make sally sit in a catholic church all day. I am sure she would love that.
NTA. three reasons. 1. Your child your rules 2. Gf ? Nope 3. Witchcraft ? Please no
NTA. If you don’t want Sally teaching your daughter these things then don’t let her spend time alone with her. She will most definitely not respect your wishes since she called you assholes over it. She’s not even officially a family member!
NTA. Would Sally be ok with you taking her hypothetical child to mass? A mosque? Learning about religion doesn’t mean they need to participate in that religion. She needs to get back in her box.
Yeah other people don’t get to demand what you teach your kids, when it comes to spirituality/religion. Your brother and sally can have their own kid if they want to make those decisions, or they can eff right off with their “hurt feelings”.
If they want to ignore you, let them carry on with their stupid temper tantrums.
NTA. Pagan here, I don’t think it’s appropriate to teach children about ANY religion until they are old enough to ask questions about them.
I also prefer to have my children learn from a more neutral perspective (ie “this is what some people believe,” not “this is TRUTH”) than what the gf is offering.
NTA. It’s your right as a parent to set boundaries on what your daughter is exposed to, especially when it comes to religious beliefs. Your family should respect your decision.
I think most non-Christians, myself included, would not want someone to come and teach our children Christianity. And the great majority of Christians understand and respect this. I don’t see how this is different. Moreover, it sounds like this goes beyond merely exposing your child. She wants to teach your child that her views are the true ones. Not appropriate at all.
It’s about what you & your wife feel she should learn, and what is age appropriate. Your daughter’s safety & wellbeing come first, period. If that means you have to tell them to fuck off & block them, then so be it! Let them think you’re an AH. What matters more, their feelings, or your daughter?? NTA if course.
NTA
NTA, none of those people get a say in what and how you teach your kids. I’d make sure they are crystal clear on that. And like your wife, I probably wouldn’t let any AHs that think they are entitled to introducing my kid to whatever the hell they want to babysit my kid.
NTA, as someone with a really liberal approach with spirituality and religion and a father I can say your answer is really good. Mine would have been probably more harsh. Her belief are her own but that doesn’t give her the right to transmit them to other person children. Tell you brother there is no difference between asking you to let her teach your daughter and asking you to send her to a mosque to be teach islam. See how he react.
Oh poor babies! They aren’t allowed to interfere in the upbringing of your child. 🤨
Aw, damn. Too bad, so sad! NTA
NTA. She’s 4. She doesn’t need to be exposed to any religious nonsense.
If they were pressuring y’all to let her teach her about Catholicism or Satanism, would that be acceptable? Still NO!!!! She’s 4, fer crissake. Let her be a child.
Nta, forcing your religion onto a child is very Catholic Church of this wicca-practitioner, I wonder if they see the irony.
Meme off, it’s your kid and not theirs, and they should have no say in how you help your child navigate their religious experience, especially if they’re going to be big babies about it.
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NTA. Personally I think your Wife is coming from a place of ignorance but you’re also correct in that your daughter doesn’t need to practice a religion in order to understand it… this all aside from the fact a 4y/o is too young to be indoctrinated into any religious practice.
The whole thing could have been handled much much better by everyone but rightly so your priority should be your daughters welfare until she’s old enough make the decision for herself.
There are some pearls here! You both said no, so you were aligned. There’s an easy solution… No more babysitting for Sally. Last but not least, she annoyed the dad and has generally pissed everybody off!
NTA. Your family is crazy. Witchcraft is about as believable as the Bible. Teach your daughter STEM. She can be a crazy witch after she gets a job and moves out. Yeah, Wiccan is harmless, but get some solid, logical, critical thinking in place first. Tell your brother’s girlfriend to get her own kid to experiment on.
The fact that she feels so comfortable teaching someone else’s child about religion without the parents asking her to is baffling to me. Perhaps ask her how she would feel if she had someone trying to teach her children about Islamic practices.
NTA, she is wrong. She is absolutely trying to “convert” your child into her belief system. Never, ever let her be alone with your kid, babysitting or otherwise.
NTA.
Protect your kid. Sally needs to respect your decision. Aside from a school teacher teaching her the basics, they have no right to be teaching her witchcraft and other religions. That is your choice to make.
NTA I would never leave her alone with her. I would not even want her in the same room as her. Do not let her get any of her hair or personal items either. They need to respect her opinions on her own child and if they do not, they will be denied access.
NTA
Religion – atheism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Wicca etc… are strictly the purview of the parents or to people the parents choose their child to learn from. Period.
I personally believe it’s actually harmful to a child to forcefully teach them too much variation at a young age; you teach them at the rate they are curious. Trust me, there is a lot of time in childhood and it’s not like you are running the risk of them never getting to learn about x,y or z… we need to let kids be kids and shoving all of this complicated adult stuff into their face is part of why these more recent generations are so stressed and anxious.
Beyond that, you raise the type of person you want to put out in the world. Your child, your choice. If you want to put out a great Muslim then teach them that and nothing else. You want it to be atheism then teach that…. Same for everything else… there is no need to teach them about other religions until they become curious and ask or are out in the world enough to need to have a basic understanding.
Are you and your wife Wiccan? If no, then why force a topic no one else is showing interest in?
For all the people saying you’re the AH and it’s great to teach them I wonder if their answer would be the same if she was a Pentecostal Christian…
IMHO, it sounds like religious grooming to me. If they want a child to teach about Wicca then tell them to get pregnant.
As a pagan, NTA, that child is too young to be practicing paganism or Wiccan craft. Teach your child in your own time, when you feel it is right for the child; not because it was forced on you by your brother’s partner or your brother
NTA. Speaking as a paganish parent, 4 is way too young to even be learning about energy work. Hell, I put serious restrictions on my teens when they were learning and researching. I won’t even get into how rude it is for someone to attempt to overstep parental authority on religious training to begin with.
As an aside, at this age I was doing things like reading them various myths for bedtime stories. There are great kid friendly stories from all kinds of cultures. I even read them some of the old Bible stories.
NTA. If the gods end up failing to protect humanity and your brother produces offspring with this woman, it should be your new life’s purpose to teach that child about every culture and belief that would annoy the parents.
As long as you tell her up front that all religions and witchcraft are fairytales.
Honestly as a Wiccan, I think it’s weird to be talking about those things to a 4 year old, just as I think it’s weird to be talking to them about God.
I do want to say however that the part of Wicca it sounds like she wants to teach, is just about How everything on our planet is made up of energy. We’re all atoms and molecules that affect other atoms and molecules. The energy that we bring to the planet is the energy that we receive from the planet.
It’s a lot about treating the planet and all the things that surround you with respect. It’s more about spirituality and not at all about casting spells, setting intentions, or manifesting.
NTA, of course
She’s only 4!
Don’t let anyone indoctrinate a child into any cult.
NTA but I wouldn’t allow Sally around my child at all after her little tantrum.
Your wife is correct.
NTA. My daughter is also 4, and my husband and I are waiting for her to show any interest in religion. We do not actively practice or participate in any form of religion. We want it to be her choice on what she chooses to believe. 4years old seems very young, in my opinion, to teach any faith that will allow the child to openly think for themselves or to fully understand the words of what that faith could be saying. As her parents you have a say in what she is exposed to. If you do not want her exposed to this, at this time, then brother and sister-in-law should respect that.
NTA for sure. Your dad is great btw 😂
NTA – Your brother’s girlfriend has no right to introduce a religion to your 4yo daughter without your consent. It’s a weird thing she even asked but unless she respectfully backed off as soon as you said no (which doesn’t sound to be the case), I don’t blame you for not letting them watch her either. Anyone who watches your daughter needs to 100% respect your wishes as her parents and follow accordingly.
NTA
Four is a little young for a comparative religion education. Maybe work on colors and numbers.
Anyone that thinks I’m an asshole isn’t allowed to babysit my child, so…Sally’s out as a babysitter.
Any family member that supports anyone who thinks I’m an asshole isn’t allowed around me or my child, so…brother’s out altogether.
Your dad’s a hoot, I’d let him babysit.
NTA If someone wanted to teach my kids about all the rites of Christianity, I’d tell them no too. It’s not about which religion she practices, simply that it’s inappropriate to teach a 4 year old that your beliefs are the true ones.b
NTA and kudos to your dad.
NTA. 4 years old is too young to be learning about different religions. We have already made a rule that no one is to teach our child any of their religious beliefs. When older, he is gladly open to explore. We’re not meaning older as an adult, but not a young child. We’ve stood firm by it. Boyfriends family and mine come from different religions, we don’t follow either of them.
If you and your wife are saying no, that’s your right. It needs to be respected and not made a fuss of.
NTA, 4 year olds don’t need to learn the rituals of any religion (and I do mean ANY religion) if she starts having questions that’s another story but just let a kid be a kid.
Any reasonable Wicca would agree with me, your brother’s GF sounds like a poser.
NTA but Christians stole everything from the pagans. So you might want to actually research all religions yourself as well.
Your child. Your rules. End of story. NTA.
I’m torn.
I guess I’m agreeing with you. Your daughter is too young to recognise that it is, indeed, like all religion… silly voodoo nonsense.
proselytizing at all is anathema to the Wiccan religion. Doing it to children is twice as bad. SIL needs to have a much better understanding of the religion she is playing at before trying to teach it to anyone.
NTA
Tell them you don’t feel it moral to teach children any religion and would rather your child follow their own path as opposed to adults pushing ideals.
If you’re religious just state whatever religion you are and modify it
NTA. Parents get the final say on that front. She and you brother are welcome to teach their kid as the wish. The key is to teach age appropriate critical thinking skills so they find their own way.
NTA. Sally be giving off some real creeper vibes, if you are uncomfortable around any person you don’t have to justify your reasons for leaving your kids under their care/supervision.
I read a Wicca book once, it wasnt about casting spells or black magic. It actually was about harmony and pulling in energy and using that energy in a positive way. By that i mean a positive attitude. How being positive attracts positive people, whereas being negative attracts people who are negative. And as such, you get more opportunities, friendships, and positive outcomes in life. That was the gist or teaching of that book that was actually published by the school of wicca. Now I am agnostic, believe in higher being, not sure if that is God or if out creator even realizing we are his creation or just a mere by product of its existance. But I see no harm in being positive. But its your child and if she were mine I wouldnt want some looney teaching her what I should be reponsible for teaching her, and that is to be happy, be positive as best as you can.
NTA. She’s FOUR. In another decade or more so she can decide if she wants to learn
Never let Sally alone with your daughter. Never. Ever. You are 100% NTA. Your brother is going off the deep end. So very sorry.
NTA Sally is trying to push her religion onto your daughter, which is so weird. You didn’t do anything wrong. She’s your daughter. At this age you get to decide what she is exposed to. I would recommend going no contact with your brother and Sally.
I’m of the opinion that indoctrinating a child with any religion before they can make that decision for themselves is child abuse.
NTA. Never is it up to anyone else to decide what and how your daughter learns something. ESPECIALLY at the age of four when (in most cases), they aren’t developed mentally enough to really question things in a logical way. With something as “mystical” as wicca, that’s a slippery fucking slope.
Your dad is hilarious. Your brother and SIL have no sense of boundaries.
NTA
Your brother and his gf have wildly overstepped normal boundaries.
It’s totally normal as a parent to restrict your children’s exposure to ideas and concepts. This is all a part of guiding their development and growth towards eventually becoming good adults and members of society. There’s a lot of things in life that kids are simply not ready to mentally or emotionally take in.
At 4 your daughter cannot really understand larger concepts, morality, or theological ideas. She’s a sponge, but in many ways is just reflecting what she physically observes.
You have a right to decide what your child learns.
Do you think that learning about harmony with nature or energies is dangerous? I ask because I’m Christian, and I’d totally be fine for discussions about such things. I don’t think learning about harmony and nature is necessarily antithetical to my religious beliefs. The minute someone goes beyond the beliefs and claims their religion is better than others is when the conversations become problematic. Is she teaching beliefs about nature and balance, or is she planning to teach pagan religious tenets?
My sisters and I were raised and identified as Catholic. My parents were open with us about religion. My sisters would attend various Bible camps (not Catholic) when invited by friends. Those experiences were enlightening about how other people see the world. When one of my classmates gave me some recordings on Joseph Smith’s founding of the Mormon Church, I listened to them. My parents didn’t try to stop that. And in my Catholic high school, I took a World Religions course in which we did some Hare Krishna chanting. If anything, I suspect that because my parents were open, none of us felt the need to rebel.
My only hesitation would be having your brother and his girlfriend be the conveyers of the information. The minute someone throws out “asshole” when they don’t get their way is the minute I no longer trust them. I’m not sure why anyone thinks that name-calling is a good persuasive strategy. It makes me question people’s intelligence when they do that.
If you’d react the same way if a hypothetical Sally wanted to take your 4 year old to communion, or a similar religious activity, NTA.
Teach your kid about other religions so she knows their song and dance but raise her an atheist.
I’d say simply: she’s 4. If she were older, like in her teens or something, and actually had interest in learning, and you said no, then I’d say you’re uncool. But this is not that. She’s 4. I’d say this to anyone wanting to teach a young child religion without my personal direct input and supervision over the conversation because I wouldn’t want my child being taught values I disagree with or can’t morally and conscientiously support when they’re too young to truly understand for themselves what those things mean.
NTA
4 years old is way too young to be indoctrinated in any religion.
Let kids be kids.
NTA. On one hand, it would be a hilarious nightmare if your daughter decides to introduce her version of wicca to her school mates mixed in with a ton of imagination. On another, this is a better time to develop facts and emotional maturity than learn about the occult. Your brother might want to reevaluate the hill he is on.
NTA at all. first of all brother’s girlfriend isn’t even real family…she needs to respect your family wishes.
NTA- that said, if you want to repair the hurt feelings, I would say something along the following to your brother and his girlfriend “hey, while we respect your religion, and we do want to expose our daughter to different religions, we do not feel she is old enough to comprehend the differences between any of them right now. When we feel she is old enough to learn about the different religions we would like to have you sit down with all of us and talk to us about yours”. That doesn’t shut her down completely, but you are letting her know why now is not the time and also letting her know you want to be there when she does talk about it. If her and your brother end up together forever, your daughter will be exposed to it, but this is letting them know that it needs to be on your terms.
What your brother and his girlfriend think about your daughter learning is none of their business and they need to stay in their lane.
Wtf?! She’s 4. I’m not religious but we try to teach our kids about other religions. We’ve only begun and we usually wait for them to come to us with questions. We live in a very diverse city so they come to us usually when they’ve made a new friend who has a different way of doing things. Our kids are 9 & 11 so yeah 4 is definitely too early. We didn’t even talk with them about our extended family’s religion until recently. NTA.
Nope and I say that as a pagan.
NTA
INFO: Did Sally and your brother meet in clown college? Because getting angry that parents don’t let a 4 year old learn practical witchcraft sure sounds like a circus act…
OP’s brother’s only mad cause he’s the one that has to put up with Sally’s whining, b!tc#ing and moaning.
Your child. Your right to them your beliefs and values.
I do energy work and even I think Sally is odd to make this request.
I’ve never asked to start teaching what I do to friends kids. Most that will happen is answering questions the kids ask me in an age appropriate way.
I’m also very leery of most people that practice these things because they tend to just pick and choose elements from other cultures without understanding the deeper context and call it “spiritualism”. That sounds like Sally, because most people acting in good faith aren’t trying to recruit 4 year olds, and they would encourage your daughter to look into her own lineage and origins if she WAS interested in paganism. I doubt she’s asked much about that yet being that she’s FOUR.
Are you and/or your wife particularly religious?
Not sure why your wife would be freaked out by your daughter thinking crystals have magic powers and that burning sage does anything but make your house smell weird, unless you’re afraid it will make her not want to eat crackers a priest cast a ritual on in order to turn it into the flesh of 1/3 of a god and then have her wash it down with some wine, which happens to actually be the blood of that 1/3 of a god.
It’s all just fun fairy tales that some people can find meaning in.
Next time tell Sally that she can teach her own children about Wicca when she has them. Your child is your responsibility and can learn all about different forms of belief when she’s a teenager and better equipped intellectually to make up her mind. NTA but Sally is. So’s your brother.
NTA. But also remember, you don’t need to tell people you’re not going to use them anymore for babysitting either.
NTA. You as the parents decide until the child is old enough to decide for herself. Sally can teach her own kids, your brother or anyone who’ll voluntaril ylisten about Wicca, not other people’s children. Given her reaction, I doubt she’d appreciate her kids being taught about believes that aren’t her’s.
As long as you start your teaching with the paganism of Christmas and Easter you should be good.
…so according to your brother, it’s YOUR fault his gf is insane…? Ya okay
NTA Op, you can decide what your child is taught, Sally can teach her own children whatever she wants
It’s too early to teach a kid that age ANY religion including Jesus.
NTA Religion should only be taught when the child is old enough to understand, critique, and reject/accept it.
NTA
She’s freaking 4, leave her alone, as long as everyone follows the golden rule, it’s all good bruh.
What about Pocahontas or the Last Airbender? If you ever are thinking about introducing the concept of energies etc
NTA
4 years old is bit young for theology. Right now for them it’s recognizing self, getting dressed by their self and kittens and unicorns.
NTA – Personally, I wouldn’t want anyone who thinks I’m as asshole caring for my kids. They are far less likely to be open and honest with you if anything goes wrong while you’re not around, which could become dangerous. I don’t agree that all of Sally’s ideas about energies and hamony with nature is really witchcraft or paganism or anything religious in nature without more details, but that’s not the point. They’re not respecting you or your wishes.
THE KID IS 4. No religion of any kind needs to be taught to a 4 y/o.
NTA, as long as we are talking about actually teaching your daughter to *practice her religion* and not *about her religion*. The former is what it is coming across as in your post, and you have every right to not want that to happen. It’s similar to people who’s grandparents go behind their back to baptize their baby. Not cool.
That said, 4-years-old is absolutely old enough to start to understand that different people have different beliefs. You should welcome Sally saying things like, “I am Wiccan so I believe XYZ”, just like I would hope your daughter is exposed to folks saying, “I am Jewish and so I celebrate these different holidays” or “I am Muslim so I don’t eat certain things”. It is completely age appropriate for kids to learn that different people can and do believe different things, and Sally (or anyone else) talking about their beliefs is not the same as indoctrinating, teaching, or “pushing” their religion on others.
Nothing inherently wrong about Wicca, but your child your stewardship. Nta
NTA id feel the same way about someone wanting to teach my child Christianity at four years old.
Absolutely NTA. I would never presume to impose my religious beliefs on someone else’s child. I don’t care what belief system it is. If the child asked me a question about my beliefs, I would be inclined to share in a benign way and then inform the parent that the child had expressed an interest and they can do with that as they see fit.
NTA. You are her parents. They don’t get a say. Full disclosure when I read the title I was thinking YTA because I was thinking your daughter was a teenage. I think FOUR years old is a bit young to be teaching her and you’ve said you plan on teaching her the different views when she gets older.
So, it’s definitely your call as her parents. No one else!
Nta, tell her and your brother to stop shoving their religion down your throats, that no, it’s not different, and you don’t appreciate them bringing in other people into this and trying to start drama.
She’s FOUR. She doesn’t need to know anything about any religion unless you choose it. While I think children should learn acceptance of all religions or no religion, at 4 the second she hears the word witch She’s gonna get confused IMHO, regarding of how smart she is.
Age appropriate education about other religions at four is, “sometimes people believe different stuff than we do, and we should always be nice about that.” Not straight up indoctrination.
I’m a Baptist and I’d never think of talking about Jesus to a four year old unless their parents bring it up first. I literally asked my parents for feedback on whether a kid’s psalm book was appropriate to gift my soon to be five year old niece, whose parents are active, devoted Catholics.
You are NTA.
As long as you impose the same boundaries with all other “religions” . Can’t really give a judgement here other than, it’s your kid and your choice on what they are exposed to at this age.
NTA. Your brother and his GF are ridiculous. They can have their own baby and they can teach him/her about wicca and witchcraft but they don’t get to practice on your kid. And she is 4 years old! She is not capable of really understanding Wicca-ism and it will only be confusing. Stand your ground here. And don’t expect your brother to see your side, he has already shown he is biased for whatever his SO thinks is important!
NTA
parents decide what their littles learn at that age. If she’s ever curious about other belief systems, she can learn when she’s age-appropriate.
Sally and your brother are out of line here. They have no business deciding what your daughter learns. And I think your family being unhappy with you is bonkers.
NTA. your dad is spot on calling out this laughable insanity. There is zero reason it should have escalated to a point that multiple people are upset. The GF is nuts. Keep her away from your kid.
Calling bullshit. Every branch of wicca is very staunchly against evangelism and early indoctrination due to the vast harm judeo-christians have done, and the religious trauma done to many of us. Unless she’s a new convert fluffy bunny any devoted, ethical wiccan is going to stay far, far away from other people’s kid’s religious upbringing, outside of telling them not to be a bigoted jerk.
Four is too young to learn about Wicca, paganism, or Druidism. She simply won’t be able to process it. Maybe at 12. NTA.
Did Sally bring this up unprompted or did your daughter show interest and she was asking if she could tell her more about it? I dunno I mean I remember having a camp counselor who taught us about spirit animals and meditation, and it was really nice and cool to experience. I wouldn’t really view it as indoctrination, just some fun alternative projects. Which you could still say no to. I’m just saying them thinking your assholes about it could maybe be from you jumping to the conclusion that she wants to indoctrinate your kid when the situation could be a lot more innocent. If she’s coming at it with “let me tell you why this is the one true religion and why you should do it” yeah that’s fucked up. If she’s saying “hey your daughter really enjoyed this I was wondering if I could tell her more about energies and nature” then yeah I think it’s kinda shitty to assume she’s pushing her beliefs on your kid. I dunno. But yeah. Your kid your choice.
NTA Definitely not at 4. But when she gets older. I think all kids should learn about different religions, at least the history of them, and who better than someone who practices it? And you or your wife could be there help so you know it won’t get too “weird.”
I’m a staunch Athiest and I don’t think anyone should be teaching 4 year olds any type of religious nonsense. Making fun of people for their practices is just mean, and as an athiest, he should know the difference between voodoo and Wiccan.
NTA. She’s 4 she’s your kid. You guys said no. It didn’t need to be an extended family discussion. Everybody including the dog the cat and the fish can be mad and it won’t change anything.
Would you feel the same about it if the religion were Islam, Buddhism, or Hinduism? Your motive matters, here. If the issue is that you feel your daughter is too young to be introduced to all the many religions of the world, that’s legit. She’s 4. She really only needs to be told that she’s loved and that different people approach religion different ways. Let Sally introduce her to Wicca when she’s old enough to think more critically about where and how she wants to invest her belief.
On the other hand, if you would be fine with mainstream religions being taught to your child at this age and not Wicca, ask yourself why you’re uncomfortable with it.
Your brother is being supportive of his girlfriend because he can see that her practices mean a lot to her. He’s in the right. Your father was rude about her beliefs, which is generally wrong. And you’re choosing how and when your child is introduced to different belief systems, which is absolutely the right thing for you to do. But, by trying to make a big deal about sharing her beliefs and practices with a young child without the child’s parents being on board, your brother’s girlfriend is in the wrong.
Sally can fuck herself, youre doing terrific
Yeah that’s weird, very much wanting to manipulate your kid into her beliefs
NTA, your kid, your rules.
Biggest red flag of all time ur wife is right, keep your LO TF away from sally. Weird enough she asked, stranger and more disturbing they’re fighting with you this hard about it!
I’m calling rage bait.
No one thinks a four-year old should be taught religion by anyone but their parents.
I practice, and trying to teach a 4 year old anything about witchcraft is kinda ridiculous. I have trouble explaining shit to adults and I’m an adult. The only interaction a witch should have with your child is through blessings and charms(protection is most common).
Any witch that goes out seeking to act as a missionary for the craft will fail, the religion of nature requires no missionaries and seeks not to force the unwilling, but to welcome the searching. Sally needs to self reflect and do some shadow work so I wouldn’t worry about it.
If you wanna do some simple craft of your own write sallys name on paper and put it in your freezer to freeze her out of your mind and your life. Make her feel cold.
NTA. Im a practicing pagan, I don’t actively teach my child about it. He knows I’m a pagan, he knows about a lot of different religions & he knows he free to choose what he wants to practice or not to practice anything. Apart from that paganism, witchcraft & wicca are three separate things. Not every pagan practices witchcraft & not every witch practices paganism or Wicca. If she doesn’t know that, she has no business teaching anyone anything.
Apart from the fact that insisting to teach her about Wicca is no different than insisting to teach her about Christianity (which I’m sure she’d be very offended to be told), insisting to teach another persons child about any religion against the parents wishes is grossly overstepping. I wouldn’t let her babysit my child either.
As an atheist I am really enjoying the raging hypocrisy of Christians. Anytime grandma wants to take the kids to church and the parents are ambivalent or atheist the comments are all about “don’t keep your kids from religion” “your kids deserve to be exposed to church” “it doesn’t hurt kids to learn about god”
I would have the same reaction if someone wanted to teach my kid catholism or christianity, absolutely not under any circumstances. Especially not my four year old. It’s what pisses me off about the whole church in school bs, it’s MY child, not YOURS.
NTA. Faith is a very personal thing. At her age, your daughter doesn’t need to delve into various ones. Tell bro and his gf to save it for their own kids.
your fam is for sure crazy lol. its one thing if your daughter expressed interest on her own but its another for he to basically have it forced upon her. like how would the gf take it if she didnt care and was over it after 10 mins like most normal people would be.
NTA…maybe if your daughter asks questions!? But specifically teaching her is typically the parents’ job and nobody needs to be preaching their belief system to anybody else.
NTA
She, and your brother for defending her, are operating way out of their lane. Any sort of religious or spiritual education is solely the purview of the parents, at least until a child is old enough to start spiritual inquiry and exploration on their own.
She, and they, should not be allowed to have unsupervised access to your daughter.
Frankly, this woman sounds mentally unhealthy to think that she’s asking something reasonable.
Sally isn’t a very good witch if she is trying to push her beliefs onto others.
First rule of Wicca:
“Harm none. Do what ye will.”
By trying to force this on you she is breaking the first and most important rule. She is harming your well being by pushing it on you.
Source: My mother was practicing Wiccan my entire life.
I’m atheist for the record. She NEVER tried to make me believe the things she did.
Nothin wrong with being in harmony with nature. Are y’all religious? I assume so since you said you’ll teach her about “other religions”.
Personally ESH if y’all are religious and the kid goes to services with you. No kid should be exposed to any religion that young.
If his gf was a Scientologist would you let her teach your 4 year old child about Scientology? What about Mormons? If his gf was jewish, would you let her and your brother start taking your child to a temple without you?
Why would anyone want a child to be indoctrinated in a religion that the parents aren’t involved in? If they wanted your daughter to know about their religion, why would they not TEACH YOU OR YOUR WIFE first so you are fully aware what is being taught to your daughter. I can see where your wife is coming from, it is very unsettling for someone to teach your child religious values without the parents involvement.
AT the end of the day its you and your wifes child and you shouldn’t care if people are offended with the choices you both are making to raise your daughter with your own morals and values. You should be the one to teach your child about different religions because that is such a personal subject that goes to the root of someone’s humanity. Lessons and values that come from religion can be so core to who people are that its not something you want to leave to other people to instill in your child, especially people who can’t accept and respect being told no when it comes to simple boundaries that involve another person child that they have zero blood relation to.
Being afraid to let her babysit is silly, but it’s your right to be inconvenienced.
People are so weird about religion.
Your brothers girlfriend has fuck all to do with your daughter
No. It’s your child. I wouldn’t want my child around that witchcraft stuff.
Nah I don’t think kids should be exposed to any religion fr fr
NTA. For your educational stance. Parents should be who makes decisions about age appropriate consumption of religious concepts. Period.
But this is a compound question. It is entirely possible you can have theoretical educational beliefs w your brother and his partner but that wouldn’t necessarily negate their ability to follow babysitting instructions without interference. If you have reason to believe (or an explicit admission) that they would not follow instructions, then & only then assume they cannot be trusted to babysit.
NTA. keep them away from her.
NTA it’s your daughter and you get to choose (as much as possible) what she’s exposed to at this age.
You are the person responsible for your child. Not your brother or Sally.
NTA Hey I’m a pagan and pushing your religion on ANYONE let alone a THE 4 YEAR OLD NIECE OF YOUR BOYFRIEND is weird and pushy AF. Honestly? I’d consider NC with her. It’s strange.
lmfao you are NTA it’s your kid and you are allowed to teach or not teach her whatever you want …your brother and his GF are giving weird
NTA – and at the risk of sounding like a crazy person… I’ve spent a lot of time in SE Asia and learned a lot about energies etc from local people and seen weird things I can’t explain. They all say it should only be taught by someone who really knows what they’re doing – and I can promise the Wicca girlfriend isn’t it
NTA
I’m a practicing Wiccan and I believe it’s up to the parents on what they introduce to their kids.
Sally needs to respect boundaries and your brother needs to respect himself and your boundaries as well.
Yes, there is nothing wrong in exposing kids to all sorts of POV but also she’s 4 and not really the time to teach her Wicca and not a GF of the kid’s uncle’s call.
You and wife get to make that call.
NTA
Sally needs to stay in her lane and that she has no business teaching anyone’s child anything without their permission especially a 4 year old. She is four not fourteen and most likely isn’t going to understand it anyway. If she wants to be overbearing then she can do it to her own children as with any religion, set of beliefs, or culture. She sounds like a religious nut and I would distance myself from that. I don’t think it matters that it’s witchcraft, it’s the fact that they think they have the right to. It wouldn’t be any different if someone from a secular religion thought they had more right to teach a child anything despite parental objection. That is a full stop, don’t come near my kid until you understand that and even then you will not be alone with them again. Sally is the biggest ah followed by your brother.
4 is way too young to be involved in any religion.
Wiccan isnt something to teach a 4 year old. Its based off traditions and rituals not to be taken lightly. NtA.
NTA. The actual issue is that Sally couldn’t take no for an answer. That’s it
You don’t need to defend any decision, she has to accept the answer you gave her.
You replace Wicca with any religion, and the answer is the same. What religious beliefs, if any, that are taught to child is the sole discretion of the parents.
NTA What Sally is asking is wildly inappropriate.
Your Brother’s gf must be a wildcat in the sack for him to make a big deal over this. Why else would anyone get involved with someone so different than themselves.
Tell Sally to have her own kids and then teach them whatever she wants to teach them.
NTA
Your daughter is not Sally’s practice child.
Im on team dad
I’d be totally ok with it! But then, I belong to the Satanic Temple, and I don’t care what fairy tales people believe and want to share.
Your daughter might think it’s cool and have new ways to protect herself!
NTA. I like to fire back with asking if it’s okay to teach them or their kids about {insert random religion here} and watch them throw all the reason why I can’t/shouldn’t and wait to see it clicks in their head why I also said no.