Disclosure, english is not my first language.
I, a 22 (F), use public transport daily. I understand that it is public transport and that I do not own the space and cannot impose my own free will upon others and they can sit where they want.
The incident happened around 22:30 on a bus. I was with my friend 25 (F), going back home. At a stop, a much older gentleman, 40s-50s, sits next to bus. Keep in mind the bus is litterally only my friend and I with least 30 other seats.
I discretly tell my friend let’s switch seats, one on the “second floor” that seats only two. He then also moves and sits right behind us, but sideways. I swear this guy was watching us. My friend, knowing me so well lol, said to not make a scene, so I didn’t (yet). I pulled her to move again, closer to the driver. He moves again sitting directly in front of us. The following conversation happens give-or-take and translated:
Me: Do you mind?
Him: Huh, what are you talking about?
Me: Why the fuck do you need to sit next to us?
Him: I’m not doing anything illegal toots (he said “pitoune” but toots is the best translation I can think of). Why don’t you mind your own business?
Me: I’ll mind my own fucking business when you stop sharing the same personal space as me.
Him: It’s a bus, your personal space doesn’t exist in public. You give up that right as soon as you step out your house.
The buses in my city offer a service where you can request the bus driver to drop you off at a safer place than the stop if needed. I requested this service, he starts telling me that I don’t have to villainze him. I proceed to yell at him that: “Well you loose the fucking right to be a good person when you creep on young women in public transport.”
We switch seats again, and he switches again to “prove a point”. When my friend and I get off the bus, she tells me I didn’t have to be so aggressive when confronting him. (I am someone who just swears a lot in general and even if the word “fuck” was used multiple times in the reported dialogue, I used a variety of profanity in my native language essentially meaning “fuck”). She said that men like that won’t learn if women are mean to them. I protested saying that he was already being aggressive by constantly sitting next to us when the bus is empty.
We asked the friend group (5 girls aged 17 to 26) what they thought and only the 17 y.o. agreed with me. The rest of the group said it’s due to our immaturity that we react in unreasonable ways. Now, our friend group thinks that I can’t be taken out in public and refuse to invite me to other outings until “I learn my lesson”.
I am the second youngest of the group, and maybe they are right. I asked my mom and she said that I was 50% wrong since I should have the right to my personal space, and that I didn’t need to yell at him. I created a hostile situation and put my friend in danger. I hadn’t considered that POV so I need to know, AITA?
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Disclosure, english is not my first language.
I, a 22 (F), use public transport daily. I understand that it is public transport and that I do not own the space and cannot impose my own free will upon others and they can sit where they want.
The incident happened around 22:30 on a bus. I was with my friend 25 (F), going back home. At a stop, a much older gentleman, 40s-50s, sits next to bus. Keep in mind the bus is litterally only my friend and I with least 30 other seats.
I discretly tell my friend let’s switch seats, one on the “second floor” that seats only two. He then also moves and sits right behind us, but sideways. I swear this guy was watching us. My friend, knowing me so well lol, said to not make a scene, so I didn’t (yet). I pulled her to move again, closer to the driver. He moves again sitting directly in front of us. The following conversation happens give-or-take and translated:
Me: Do you mind?
Him: Huh, what are you talking about?
Me: Why the fuck do you need to sit next to us?
Him: I’m not doing anything illegal toots (he said “pitoune” but toots is the best translation I can think of). Why don’t you mind your own business?
Me: I’ll mind my own fucking business when you stop sharing the same personal space as me.
Him: It’s a bus, your personal space doesn’t exist in public. You give up that right as soon as you step out your house.
The buses in my city offer a service where you can request the bus driver to drop you off at a safer place than the stop if needed. I requested this service, he starts telling me that I don’t have to villainze him. I proceed to yell at him that: “Well you loose the fucking right to be a good person when you creep on young women in public transport.”
We switch seats again, and he switches again to “prove a point”. When my friend and I get off the bus, she tells me I didn’t have to be so aggressive when confronting him. (I am someone who just swears a lot in general and even if the word “fuck” was used multiple times in the reported dialogue, I used a variety of profanity in my native language essentially meaning “fuck”). She said that men like that won’t learn if women are mean to them. I protested saying that he was already being aggressive by constantly sitting next to us when the bus is empty.
We asked the friend group (5 girls aged 17 to 26) what they thought and only the 17 y.o. agreed with me. The rest of the group said it’s due to our immaturity that we react in unreasonable ways. Now, our friend group thinks that I can’t be taken out in public and refuse to invite me to other outings until “I learn my lesson”.
I am the second youngest of the group, and maybe they are right. I asked my mom and she said that I was 50% wrong since I should have the right to my personal space, and that I didn’t need to yell at him. I created a hostile situation and put my friend in danger. I hadn’t considered that POV so I need to know, AITA?
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> I yelled at a stranger in the bus for sitting next to me when the bus was empty and I am being called Immature and an asshole.
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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.
NTA. You’re a hero. You did not create the hostile situation; you managed it. The guy was harassing you and you called him out. You did everything just right.
You are 100% right. Public shame is the only way these creeps will stop.
You’re NTA. Not a chance. Calling a creep out for being a creep is to be commended.
NTA. From the title I thought I was gonna go the other way because you should just be the one to move — but you did, repeatedly. Following you around Iike that was quite creepy.
NTA! dude was following you around the buss acting like a creep. Good on you asking for a safe haven stop. Your friend needs to get out of the habit of accepting this kind of behavior it only emboldens guys like that. However if your alone on a buss with just the driver and you do this might be a good idea to have a pepper spray on you incase these creeps try anything.
NTA, I would’ve done the same thing
NTA
I’m surprised any of your friends disagree that he knew exactly what he was doing.
NTAH
I don’t know where you are but it’s very good to confront and get loud to draw attention to the situation. Look the world is real ugly with predatory men stalking young women. Every ten minutes somewhere in the world a woman is killed by a intimate person and this was a stranger. Here’s a link. Stay safe virtual hugs 🥰
https://www.unwomen.org/en/news-stories/press-release/2024/11/one-woman-or-girl-is-killed-every-10-minutes-by-their-intimate-partner-or-family-member
NTA. GOOD FOR YOU!
NTA. I’m sorry your other friends have been conditioned to be polite when men are being predatory.
NTA. Shame harassers and call them out (when you feel safe to do so).
I’m 30, maturity doesn’t mean becoming a doormat. You did good.
Nta, good for you. And a heaping serving of side-eye to the friends who didn’t understand.
It’s taken me until age 42 to realize that as a woman in this world, I’d much rather be safe and alive than perceived as “nice.” And everyone would tell you I’m one of the nicest people they know. I’m sweet, friendly, giving and understanding.
And I would have said something too…
For the reason your mom pointed out NAH. Or ESH? Both really. Your friend is wrong. Guys like that won’t learn no matter how you treat them, but making a scene that attracts attention can be the difference between them following you home or them staying on the bus due to witnesses.
At the same time though, a man that’s genuinely bad (and literally any of them can be) might become more dangerous after being harshly rejected or embarrassed. If he had lashed out or followed you off the bus or hunted you down after you got off, you guys could’ve gotten seriously hurt.
Since he was being creepy, but technically not doing anything illegal or to hurt you, it may have been best to quietly say something to the driver and request a safe spot to get off. You could also call someone and loudly tell them you’ll be there soon so everyone knows you’re expected somewhere and that you’re expected their soon. This makes you a bad target for an attack.
NTA. He knew what he was doing and only got mad cause you called him out on it.
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NTA. Women have been too nice to men like this, which is why they can get away with this shit. Call it out, every time. He was a fucking creep, you treated him like a fucking creep, and now you’re getting shit for it? Nah, that’s not right. I’m sorry your friends and family would rather excuse men’s shitty behavior than call it out.
NTA.
This guy was being a creep and he used his presence to intimidate you, hoping you’d be socialised to not make a fuss and just accept being creeped on.
He thinks he has a right to access any woman in public just by being male. I don’t know whether he would have stopped at looking but you cannot know that, and if you’d gotten off on your own in an isolated place… you should be safe, but you can’t tell. He already crossed several boundaries of politeness by following you and telling you you had no right to privacy and invading your space.
I hope you won’t encounter him again. You did the right thing, and anyone who thinks you should have let him harass you I’d not your friend.
NTA-The bus was empty enough that sitting near you wasn’t a need but a deliberate choice to be an asshole. NTA
You don’t owe creepy people politeness. I feel like your friends who thought you were too harsh have been conditioned to think we have to smile and be polite even when someone deliberately makes us feel uncomfortable, and that’s awful.
NTA. Polite girls get stalked and killed
NTA, in model mugging they taught us the first line of defense if you’re being followed is to make eye contact, let them know you know they’re there and you’re not afraid. Second line of defense when being followed, is to verbally tell them to back off and get louder if they keep approaching. If attacked, you fight though that depends on your situation, as you might be able to safely escape. They taught us assailants interview their victims to see who is alert, who is afraid and therefore a good victim. This guy might well have followed you right off the bus. The only thing I’d do differently is make eye contact and say nothing at first, then when he followed say “back off or we go tell the driver you’re following us.” I have fought off an attacker. I did not get raped but I did get a messed up disc in my neck that causes headaches so if you can avoid an altercation it’s best. As to your friends, ignoring trouble doesn’t make it go away. If they google what to do, it’s more what you did and less what they’re thinking. Get braver, smarter friends.
I’m sure the driver has some rules he enforces.
NTA. Following you from seat to seat was uncalled for. I’m glad you asked the bus driver to drop you somewhere safe.
NTA – Following someone on an empty bus is creepy AF. People should call out creepy behavior.
NTA, he’s a creep.
Nta
If it happened like you said it did you are definitely NTA, he was purposely moving around to be closer to you guys.
I do find it a little strange that your friends and even your mom are not on your side on this though.
NTA but don’t ever move to a more secluded area if you think you’re being followed/watched. Move towards another adult and be LOUD so they know what is going on
The guy was being a weirdo and you called bom out on it. Your friends are door mats
Yeah no, this guy was being a creep for sure. NTA at all. And I’m baffled people in your life are saying this was an overreaction, maybe they need to actually be in this exact situation and then think how they will react.
NTA He was being creepy.
NTA!!!! Please educate your friends on what happened to poor Iryna Zarutska. You guys were alone and she literally wasn’t and still was brutally murdered.
Speaking up and making as much noise as possible during these UNPREDICTABLE situations literally saves women’s lives. Tell your friends they are ignorant, uneducated and sheltered!!!
Then get new friends besides that 17 year old friend
I’m 29 and have stopped being friends with whole friend groups due to our morals not aligning. Guess what? I make new friends! Remember, if you got you, that’s all that matters. Especially in life and death/threat situations.
NTA. More creepy assholes should be spoken to like that. Just keep yourself safe though, sometimes you unfortunately need to read the space and know if it’s safe for you.
NTA
This was clearly a creep. Sitting right next to other people when there’s loads of free seats is an a-hole move irrespective of the sex of the people. I’m a woman and would NEVER sit myself right next to or in front of/behind a man or several men sat together if there’s other spaces available. It’s common sense and decency to give others space if at all possible. This guy’s first predatory action was to sit right next to you two when there were many other seats.
He confirmed he is a predator by following you two when you moved to alternative seating.
Then after you rightly confronted him, he didn’t apologise because he knew what he was doing, and instead of backing away, he started some Spiel about his right to sit wherever he likes.
Good on you for making use of the bus’ safety feature to get away from creeps. I’d even report this instance to the bus company as they will have CCTV and can see if he does this more often. He’s clearly a predator.
NTA. He kept following you because he wanted to make you uncomfortable. Some men get off on the power dynamic of making women feel uncomfortable in public because they know the women can’t do anything about it.
Good for you for standing up for yourself.
Bad friends
The man in your story was doing bad behaviour and you were right to tell him to stay away.
You are not an asshole. Stay strong.
NTA.
You called out a creep for being a creep. Being silent around bad behavior is why entire industries become assault havens.
Starting any conflict with a stranger can get dangerous for you and the people you’re with, but it can also deter some people from going further. It’s risky either way with ill-intentioned folks, so victims (or potential victims) shouldn’t be expected to place blame on themselves for someone else’s bad (or potentially bad) behavior regardless of which method is taken.
The safe stop was the perfect move and I’m so glad you used something for its intended purpose!
If things had gone worse and this person viciously attacked you or your friend, “making a scene” would better ensure the driver remembers you and the suspect. Not something pleasant to think about, but if you can’t talk for yourself or if you need to prove anything in court, at least somebody else (the driver) might have been able to speak up about your experience with this person.
NTA
This dude’s knees have a date with a baseball bat.
NTA. Women are trained from childhood to be ‘nice’ to boys no matter what, and are told boys who hit or insult them or be mean to them are doing that because they like you.
boys become men, and those men that behave aggressively or threateningly feel safe in doing that because so many women are trained to ‘be nice’ with out matching aggression until it is too late, and that is one of the biggest reasons why so many women are hurt or SA’d every single day, by strangers, family, boyfriends, husbands.
men who act that way do not see women or girls as equally human.
Who makes strangers feel like they’re being invaded upon?
That dude, would be the Gluteoanorectal Sphincter-Orifice!! A hairy, ugly, shit-caked one. Itchy with rash.
NTA.
It seems that you have a different level of vigilance than your wider friend group, and while they may be okay with ignoring bad/creepy behaviour your personality type is more explosive and reactive when creepy behaviour is around you. Unfortunately people see the world differently, and while I dont think you did a bad thing with confronting this man, others probably see your response as unnecessary escalation that only made the situation even more “unsafe”.
You did the right thing with requesting a safer drop-off, and the fact that he followed you again after that tells me he really really enjoys pulling power moves on people he deems as having less power than him. your friend is wrong about men like him “learning” only if women are nicer to them.
I’m sure this man is a serial pest who enjoys making younger women uncomfortable, you verbalised you knew exactly what his game was (and judging by his responses “its not illegal, we’re in public” he already had it all planned out). I don’t know what the laws are in your part of the world but since he insisted you were in public you could have recorded the interaction on your phone, or taken his photo (but only do that if it is legal where you are). Honestly, you should research this in case you run into him again. Then you can have the entire interaction on film and inform him you will record him every single time you see him if he persists in being a creepy seat stalker.
The sad thing is that your friends think you’re the one with the issue, not the man who stalked 2 young women 4 times in an enclosed vehicle. I think your friends are more “flight” and “freeze” while you’re more “fight” in situations. If you can, have a further conversation with them where you focus on that, that you are “fight” not flight.
I’m sorry, I’m 34 and failing to see how your reaction was unreasonable at all. I’d feel super threatened and unsafe if a man would go out of his way to be near me in public transport. You did well. This man hasn’t been yelled at enough.
Pro of confronting: drawing attention to the harassing individual might might keep him from escalating.
Con of confronting: you might antagonize him and he could become worse.
The social rules of your country will dictate how you should react. Most redditors aren’t qualified to advise you.
They may be older but they are not wiser. You are not the AH. You and your 17 yo friend friend keep your heads high and continue to be safe
NTA.
But being an asshole, and behaving unwisely, are two different things.
Let’s be clear: you were absolutely NOT the asshole.
But you and your friend need to stay SAFE. Safety is more important than absolutely anything else.
And I don’t think it’s the wisest strategy to directly confront a creepy predatory stranger on public transportation, using abusive language, when the only other person who could come to your aid if the situation turns nasty is the driver – and he may choose to stay in his little driver’s cage and do nothing.
If the bus had maybe 6 or 8 other people on it, that would be different. I’d trust that at least one of them might come to my aid if things got bad. But in this case there was just the driver. So you have to play it smart.
Can the police force in your country be trusted? They usually can in my country. It wasn’t necessarily always the case, but it is now, after a few high-profile incidents. The police here don’t want creeps preying on young women.
By the second seat switch, when it’s clear this man intends to sit as close as possible to me no matter which seat I move to, I’d be moving as close as I could to the driver (and the man would follow, of course), and then I’d take out my phone and call the police. I’d tell them there’s a man on the bus who is behaving in a predatory manner, sitting as close to me as he can on an otherwise empty bus, and making me feel very unsafe. I would not talk to this man directly – only to the driver, and the police.
My guess is that he’d leap off the bus at the next stop. Snap a picture of him as he’s exiting, just in case your bus doesn’t have CCTV.
An aside: you called him a “gentleman” in your post. He’s no gentleman. He’s a creep.
NTA. I’m older than all of y’all and you weren’t wrong.
“Men like that” don’t learn from politeness. They might not learn from confrontation either, but they certainly don’t learn from deference. And that man created the danger, not you.
NTA. Creeps should be called out
This is good! If he ever does anything illegal then there are people who can recall “oh, yeah, he has a record of harassing young ladies”. Chances are (hopefully) there are cameras on the bus. Any time the guy goes on that bus again the bus driver will have their eyes out for him (again, you’d hope). These are all good things! Proud of you, lady!
ESH. If a person switches seats, then following that person is generally a creepy move, but it doesn’t merit comment if they follow.
By verbally assaulting a complete stranger, even if you found his actions objectionable, you have invited conversation. If he’d started talking to you, then you could have said you weren’t interested.
You have every right to your feelings. It is scary for a teenaged girl to have a middle aged man linger and leer, but you violated the rule: “don’t start none, won’t be none.”
Incidentally, there are places in the world where “offending the modesty of a woman” (leering and creeping) is a crime.
NTA.
They will continue to do it to those who do not fight back.
Use your voice and call these creeps out.
NTA people like that creep need to be called out, if you can do it safely. Your friend group sounds so pretentious talking like that, and doing nothing would have only encouraged the guy.
Why didn’t you ask the bus driver for help beyond dropping you off somewhere safe? Surely he should have the authority to kick the guy off the bus when he’s clearly intentionally trying to make people feel unsafe on the bus. Just because it’s public transport doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want.
What country is this? Wow… Isn’t it sad that the people we love? Don’t believe enough us enough to stand up for us. That doesn’t matter what country you’re in the world we live in is all over the place which means it’s all over the world.
NTA. His behavior was creepy. Not standing up to creeps is what makes people stay that way. You did good.
NTA! There’s a saying on a true crime podcast I listen to “Fuck politeness.” The saying came from the way that women are taught to not “cause a scene” or stand up for themselves when put in uncomfortable situations by men because we’re taught to be docile and people please from birth for the most part. Fuck politeness means you draw attention to yourself and the creep and make sure that you’re safe and people are aware that they’re being creepy because the bystander effect is real and you can’t rely on someone else standing up for you or worrying about your safety. Excellent job making sure other passengers and the driver were aware so this guy didn’t get away with testing boundaries further. He could have easily followed you off the bus had you not called him out and drawn attention. Unfortunately we have to be hyper aware of our surroundings even in public.
NTA. You’re better than me. I would have found some way to make it physical because I crave violence 🤣 But the fact you guys moved like, 4 times? And he followed you? That’s just fucking creepy.
I’m sure that your friends are just used to letting it happen because they don’t want to escalate it. But the fact you had the courage to stand up for yourself is something in of itself.
NTA. If you had immediately gone off on him after he first sat down, maybe. But after he followed you multiple times when you were clearly trying to get away from him? Especially at night when there were no other witnesses? Nope. That guy was a creep and deserved it. He knew what he was doing was creepy. Also, your friend is wrong. People like that won’t learn UNLESS others are mean to them. They need to learn that their would-be victims won’t stand for it. They already know you don’t like it. Otherwise, why would you have moved three times in an otherwise empty bus? They don’t care unless it affects them. You made it affect this guy by showing the driver he was making you feel unsafe and by you refusing to let him have plausible deniability that he was making you feel unsafe. You called him out, so he couldn’t pretend it wasn’t a problem. You also refused to let him make you feel helpless, which is usually what people like this want. Good job, OP!
Edit: also, if your friend group still thinks you’re TA and starts refusing to go out in public with you, you should consider getting better friends.
NTA – Tell the bus driver you are being stalked and can he/she have a police unit meet the bus at the next stop.
NTA. The guy was creeping on you late at night. Terrible things happen to women who are nice and polite and don’t want to make a scene. This is what creeps count on. What if he had followed you two off the bus?
NTA. He was obviously up to something and deliberately moving to sit close (several times!) is absolutely being a creep. He should have been forced to leave the bus.
BTW any male who deliberately sits close to women, or beside them, when in a nearly empty bus or train, has to be up to something and needs watching. Protests of false innocence won’t change anyone’s mind. We see them- we know what they’re doing.
NTA The bus driver absolutely should have kicked him off as soon as you made him aware of the situation.
NTA. Predators gauge the meekness/weakness of potential victims often in ways like this guy did—testing you to see how resistant you might be to an attack. When you come off as aggressive, they’re more likely to move along to easier prey. So, well done, I say.
This guy sounds like an idiot more than a criminal, so I’m not saying he was looking to assault you, but you read his behavior as odd/troubling and rightly so.
Don’t listen to “friends” who care more about politeness or not making a scene than protecting themselves. Trust your gut.
You could have asked nicely if he could respect your personal space. Using “fuck” in your first response to his closeness was rather confrontational.
Ok, next time, because we know there will be a next time, stand up and shout “keep your penis away from me, you creep!” Make a big deal of being creeped out. Make sure anyone and everyone around you sees how upset you are. Put the onus on the creep. Everyone will be focused on him, not you. “Call the police!”
The fact that your mom is blaming you, even a little bit is troubling. It isn’t our fault! It’s the creep’s. You didn’t create a hostile environment, he did. But make the focus completely on him, where it should be. Your friends are wrong. It’s the creep’s fault, not any woman’s. Keep your cussing for telling your story later to your friends. Just make sure you express your disgust at what this man tried to do to you. What? It’s not fair to fudge the truth a bit and get him in trouble? I happen to believe every creep deserves it. If you’re on the creep’s side maybe do a little soul searching.
I don’t care if you over reacted lol I will never like someone who chooses to be IN my personal space when not being forced due to perhaps not enough room. But fuck me if you do that, I’d be worse tbh. I would have made him feel so gross about himself. I hate men. It’s always them thinking they’re entitled.
NTA. I can’t stand it when a man is obviously getting off on the power he thinks he has, and that is making a woman uncomfortable. I always let the man know that he isn’t making me uncomfortable. He’s simply pissing me off, and I refuse to give him the satisfaction. So I think you did the right thing.