Tonight, my partner (30M, white) and I (29F, mixed race) were at my friend’s birthday party. My friend is black, female and 6ft tall. My partner met her for the first time tonight.
After we left, he let me know that an hour or so into the party, two of the birthday girl’s friends had arrived. They are also black, female and tall. My boyfriend apparently said “what is it with you black women tonight, you’re so tall!?” I wasn’t there to hear it, but he said that the two black women laughed, but three of our white male friends (including the husband of the birthday girl) made jokes in the realm of “yikes, only you could get away with that!” Weirdly, they were referencing him being charming. I read from this that they sensed it was a weird joke to make, but knew that he meant it in earnest or something.
I think my partner expected me to tell him that the way our white male friends reacted is over the top. But I didn’t. I said that that’s a weird “joke” to make, it’s not really funny and whilst it’s not overtly racist perhaps, I don’t really think he would have referenced their race had they been white like he is. I said that sometimes people who are in minority groups laugh at jokes like that because it’s easier to do so than to make a big deal of it.
Unfortunately he reacted in a really defensive, horrible way. I sort of feel like within reason, he should defer to me on matters like this. (I didn’t say this aloud). But it became a shouting match, when I was just calmly telling him that maybe the women laughed because it’s easier to laugh than to say they didn’t find it funny or felt uncomfortable. And he hated that and couldnt take it. And now honestly I’m wondering whether we A) haven’t had enough conversations about race and/or B) he has never done the work on understanding the nuances of race. It’s really worried me that he got so angry and defensive here and I don’t know how to bring it up without him becoming defensive again.
We’re already not in a great place, so maybe we’re nipping at each other, but there’s never been an argument regarding race before…
I’m a bit troubled by the fact that he reacted like this. Is he being unnecessarily defensive or am I being unnecessarily provocative and soft??
TLDR: my partner made a joke to some black women, but got incredibly defensive with me when I suggested it might not be as “fine” as he thought.
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That is the biggest red flags of red flags. Girl, run.
NOR. A lot of people are showing who they are now that they think they’re protected from consequences of being racist.
Don’t tolerate this nonsense.
He may not be ready for an interracial relationship. Microaggressions are still aggressions and can cause pain. I’ve been in an interracial marriage for almost 25 years at the start we had to have a lot of hard conversations. If you do talk to him I’d start looking into his response or talk to him about how that made you feel about something important to you if it is. That’d be my approach.
He’s being unnecessarily defensive. If you’re going to be a white person dating a person of color, it’s super important to be able to listen to their experience around race and learn new things with minimal defensiveness. His reaction definitely sucked, you’re not wrong
Info, how long have you been dating?
If you feel that any partner should defer to your opinion on anythung, you’re not a partner. Partner’s opinions are equally valid. If race makes that different to you, then you should only date with your own race/mixed race.
It’s wild that he’s got you second-guessing yourself when he was the one who was being a creep.
His response is concerning? A screaming match? Is this common for you two?
That’s not good. I’m black in a relationship with a white guy. If he can’t take constructive criticism and won’t defer to your expertise, then be prepared for him to embarrass you.
I don’t understand why he had to add the work “black” when he made the comment. Couldn’t it just be, “What’s with all the ladies being tall?” Actually, it’s sort of stupid to say any variation of it. It leaves people flat with no response. He doesn’t seem sensitive about what to say and how he can be offensive.
Sounds like a social blunder. While he might mean well he needs to learn to be more mindful because not everyone will see it the way he does. This is something I’ve had to learn and grow from as an autistic dude. If he is not willing to learn from this then I would consider it a red flag.
The fighting doesn’t sound great, but fights happen.
I’m just confused, what would be offensive about commenting on people’s height and mentioning their race?
How could that be construed in any way as racist? There’s nothing derogatory or condescending about it, and it doesn’t sound like there was any malice or history of prejudice/dog whistling with him.
There’s also no associated stigma or negative inference that can be made regarding black peoples height.
If anything, it’s just a bad joke because it’s not funny, but not because it’s offensive.
Maybe he was embarrassed and ashamed, but to start a screaming match is ridiculous and not okay.
I’m a white woman married to a brown man. If I ever made a racially insensitive joke and my man told me that I made people uncomfortable, I would’ve been absolutely mortified. I personally would’ve started apologising profusely, asked him to explain if I didn’t understand, and start texting my apologies to everyone at the party that was impacted by the joke, not that I would make such ‘jokes’ in the first place.
Your man is being very defensive, and you’re not being soft. You know how it feels to be the on the other end of this, and you’re right, you are the default correct opinion in this case. I’m so sorry that happened.
Ok – I am a white dude married to a not-white woman with mixed kids.
There are jokes I can make around wife and kids and they know 100% it’s a joke (plus, they’re never mean-spirited), and they can throw back any shade at my boring white normie ass as they want.
There are jokes I can make around friends I have known for years, and they probably throw back better than I can dish out.
Then there are things I would never say because I KNOW it’s wildly inappropriate regardless of intention, and way outside the realm of like… “Any Your Mom Jokes are like… The Royal Mom because we know that two of us have had their mom pass. We are crude, but not mean.” that my friend group has.
He could have made that crack without any reference to race. Like “Damn, I feel short all of a sudden.” or whatever. He may not be racist, but They Do Not Know That, and there’s a HUGE difference in giving gentle shit to people you care about, and being like “What’s up extremely tall Black women!” as your first interaction with someone.
On the other hand, you thinking he should defer to you is an issue. He should LISTEN to you when you talk, and take what you say into consideration, which any couple should both do.
It’s entirely possible that your friends recognized he was being a goofball and laughed along. It’s also possible that they laughed uncomfortably. You could always ask your friends, and be like “Sorry if my doofus crossed a line.”
Every date I’ve had with a black woman they’ve asked “have you dated outside your race before?” and this post is making me think they were likely asking to see how much effort they had to be prepared for in terms of bringing me around their friends. As in, have I had experience yet or would they have to work with me on it.
His reaction to the conversation is what is most problematic. First his white friends, and then his GF gently tried to let him know how his remark was received and he responded with a tantrum. The reaction is similar to what we see online: people more upset about being called racist (I know none of you was actually saying that, but that’s probably what he heard) than concerned with how their actions might uphold racism.
your partner if you choose for him to be that of course, should read the book called “Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria” its a great book on race, racial identity and the psychology behind race and racial identity. Talks about those nuances you mentioned and brings it ina digestible way for non-black people to understand the psychology to race and their micro aggressive remarks whether they intended it to be micro aggressive or not
So you’re dating a bigot? You’re dating someone so immature that the conversation they think of appropriate for conversation is unfunny race jokes?
I know, this is a really unpopular opinion, but please note that this is an extension of you. All of these people look at him and think to themselves ’this is the sort of person that I OP closely aligns themself with to the point of considering building a life via dating.’
This is a 30-year-old man. The same classrooms you sat in where the history of the world and the way that race intersects widely, with the things in our lives was described, and so did he.
He just doesn’t care, no matter if he fucks the biracial girl or plays basketball or listens to Drake or has a racially ambiguous friend or 2. This is so early college cannon. Relationships exist where you don’t have to go about explaining basic humanity to grown ass adults.
I really don’t see that as that big of a deal. I don’t think he was making it a race thing until you did
You should leave him.
I understand you’re having what could be a nuanced conversation but all he’s hearing is “you’re racist”. He just can’t handle the idea that someone might consider him even a little bit racist, even if it was unintentional, and is so uncomfortable with the feeling that those women were potentially irked enough to have to pretend to laugh it off, that he’s lashing out with defensiveness. There are people out there who are willing to listen and will apologize if/when they’ve hurt someone, find someone like that!
He can’t be racist, he’s dating a person of mixed race. /s
I don’t think your bf understands nuance of race and I think he is way too defensive to learn.
I agree that he should defer to you on this topic, but I don’t think he got that memo.
How invested are you in this relationship?
My guess on why this got escalated that I haven’t seen people say: he was there and judged that the women thought it was funny and believes that he can accurately gauge that. So for you to ever imply that you know better about how they reacted when you weren’t there feels insulting to him. Now maybe he would be wrong or maybe he’s right about his perception but if you’re looking for what might have heightened the conversation outside of him just being defensive, it might be this.
In general I think people react poorly when those who weren’t at something suggest they have a better read on an issue than those that were there. That doesn’t mean they are correct, it’s just something I think humans do.
So he doesn’t take criticism well, and he’s not self-aware enough to take your lead on something he is clearly less educated on.
These are huge red flags on their own – and then he escalates it into a screaming match? That’s a dealbreaker.
Dump this guy.
I’m Native American. Most times I’m the first NA people ever meet.
One time when we first moved in together my then bf now husband got home before I did. A salesman came to the door who was a person of color. My guy had a long day, didn’t want to hear the spiel and slammed the door.
While we were relaxing on the deck and talking about the day he brought it up. I asked if the salesman was a person of color. He said yes. I then explained how difficult it is to be POC and a door to door salesman coming to an upper middle class mainly white neighborhood only to have the door slammed in your face and how they could be construed as racist.
My now husband was mortified. It’s not something he ever thought of. He changed a lot that day. He started seeing the world through my lens, even going out on a limb in a few cases where he recognized micro aggressions and called people out.
Your bf is a giant red flag. He’s not willing to grow or see life through anything but his own lens. Imagine having children with him and the kids look like you. Yikes.
I was fired off my job for doing almost the exact same thimg as this. I.meant no harm but didnt understand that I was singling people out with a generalization…making them “different” because they were “black”. I honestly was trying to be sweet and polite and cool but that didnt matter…and it shouldnt. Boss told me, black neighbor friend told me, still took me.a.few hours to understand. I was pretty defensive but men are dumb and dominant when young and it takes an adult with a megaphone to explain complicated concepts.sometimes.
Sadly dating white ppl is still a gamble, and takes a lot of vetting. I’m sorry this happened, such a turn off.
That’s a major red flag. To get so angry and defensive and not even contemplate that you could be right.
If he can’t listen to you on a topic that he absolutely should refer to you on, then he just isn’t willing to grow or learn.
I’m half Korean and half an assortment of whites. My boyfriend is white and the very few times he’s made a comment that I told him was not something he probably should say in the US (he’s Australian), he was absolutely mortified and apologized profusely for “being so ignorant”. He’s always sincere and asks questions to learn more.
My random thoughts in order:
Regarding:
“Is he being unnecessarily defensive or am I being unnecessarily provocative and soft??”
He’s 100% being unnecessarily defensive, but it might not be fully due to the subject matter. As you said, you’ve had a weird dynamic lately, so maybe he would have been crazy defensive about anything you critiqued. The fact that it’s about race just intensified it all. I don’t think you did anything wrong by calling him out, but I don’t know what the vibe/tone was either.
I’ve heard trans people talk about the best case scenario when someone uses the wrong pronouns, and it’s a very simple exchange:
Person A: “oh what’s he up to tonight?”
Person B: “she”
Person A: “thank you! What’s she up to tonight?”
Person B: “she’s at the park”
Obviously you know your partner best. Maybe he needs to do some more work or maybe he had a dumb moment (made the comment) followed by a sensitive moment (being defensive). Either way, if you want to move forward with him, you’ll need to have a serious talk about how to discuss this stuff in the future, because shit happens. Can you talk to your parents about it since they have experience as an interracial couple? I dunno, if theres enough other shit going on maybe this is all just too much and it’s time for a split.
I’m mixed race. I would dump him. He’s not capable of being in an interracial relationship and it’s not your job to teach him.
Dating a person of color means needing to be open to the fact that you don’t know everything about their experiences. It means listening to them. It means taking it upon yourself to learn, to research, to ask questions, respectfully.
My ex boyfriend was the first white man I ever dated who did those things, and I can’t tell you how gratifying and wonderful it was. I felt respected and safe to talk about my feelings and about race because I knew he was self motivated to do right by me and to learn and to listen. He came from a place of racial humility—acknowledging that he, as a white man, couldn’t possibly understand my life as a half Black woman. But he wanted to understand the best he could. He even asked me hair questions!
We broke up for other reasons, but we remain best friends.
Getting defensive is white fragility 101. I wouldn’t put up with it.
As a mixed race girl with a white boyfriend, I would not let this slide. He’s showing you who he is.
The comment could have been phrased better, he has to learn this stuff: wow, you ladies are beautifully tall, something like a compliment would be much better, and removing the “black”
I laugh when I’m uncomfortable
I’m biracial and engaged to a white man. Gently, I don’t think you’re having the right conversations before you allow white men into your life. What’s telling isn’t just the joke and the fight, but that his friends said “only you could get away with this.” That’s a red flag if I’ve ever seen one. His response to criticism is a deal-breaker for me. Are they for you? Do you want this and worse?
There’s a lot to unpack here.
>“what is it with you black women tonight, you’re so tall!?”
The reason the comment made you uncomfortable is because he is “othering” Black people. Although not proof positive, it is definitely evidence that he views “white” as the default and “Black” as the others. Evidence that when he sees a Black person he views them as Black first, a person second. This is clearly problematic because when someone doesn’t see another person as a “person” first that means they will not treat them as a “person” first. This is what you were feeling when you said “its not overtly racist, perhaps.” You’re right, its not. I also want to say, again, its not proof he has underlying issues with race. But it is behavior people who do have underlying issues with race exhibit.
>I said that sometimes people who are in minority groups laugh at jokes like that because it’s easier to do so than to make a big deal of it.
This is an objective fact and its bothersome your BF won’t acknowledge it. Take race out of it. Hasn’t your BF been around a group of friends and someone said something about him that made him feel some type of way, but decided to laugh it off instead of making a big deal about it? Like a buddy of his told him he was gaining weight or something in front of other people and instead of saying “thats not cool bro” he just laughed it off and changed the subject because he didn’t wanna kill the vibe? Thats a normal human reaction. He’s being stubborn by pretending its not.
>Unfortunately he reacted in a really defensive, horrible way. I sort of feel like within reason, he should defer to me on matters like this.
Because you held up a mirror to his problematic behavior. He felt like you were calling him racist, or saying his behavior was racist, and he got defensive. No one likes being called a racist and they will usually fight tooth and nail to defend themselves. Its important for you to remember: you didn’t call him a racist. You didn’t even call his behavior racist. You pointed out that the comment he made is similar to comments that are made by racists. There’s a distinct difference.
And yes, he does need to listen to you when you point that stuff out because if he doesn’t then people will think he’s racist. You have 29 years worth of experience as a Black person. You know how it feels to be “othered.” You know what the signs are. You know what the comments are that make YOU feel that way. Surely, he doesn’t want you, or the rest of us to feel that way, right? So why wouldn’t he be open to hearing you out? If he thinks what he said wasn’t problematic…why does he think the other white people in the room immediately said, “yikes!”? Isn’t that proof that the majority of the room felt his comment was off?
>And now honestly I’m wondering whether we A) haven’t had enough conversations about race and/or B) he has never done the work on understanding the nuances of race.
This is an incredibly nuanced topic that I feel like unless you’re a POC you never truly understand because you just don’t have that lived experience of being “othered” in a dehumanizing manner. I’m sure he’s been the only white guy in a Black space before, and he felt like an outsider. But that feeling is never accompanied with making him feel less of a person. While me, on the other hand, when I’m a Black guy in white spaces I might have to prove myself worthy.
For example, when a white doctor walks into an all Black hospital a patient might question his experience with Black patients. When a Black doctor walks into an all white hospital a patient might question if he actually earned his medical degree or if he’s some DEI hire. Drastic difference there.
But he doesn’t need to truly understand to at least listen to you. “When you interject race in conversations where its not necessary it makes Black people uncomfortable. We start to question your motives. For all of our sakes, please don’t do that.” That is such a simple ask.
He suffered from white guilt over doing a micro-aggression except he can’t deal with even the idea of that being what happened so he screamed you into compliance and doubting yourself
As a short, white woman, I’m wondering even without the bit about race: Where’s the joke in what he said? Did he stop halfway through? Was it going to be about sports that tall people are usually better at?
Bad humor aside, IMO the real red flag is his reaction afterwards. When I say something insensitive and someone points that out, I apologize. Depending on context I might explain I didn’t mean to offend but I surely won’t get into shouting matches.
I mean, if you both were shouting, you both shouted.
I would have just said something like, “I wouldn’t have made a comment like that because….” And left it at that.
People don’t do any type of reflective thinking or insight if they feel attacked, generally. It’s kind of a human nature thing. We hate to feel like we’re coddling a person who is being insensitive themselves, but if the goal is to make someone see the error of their ways and hopefully change their behavior, we have to keep our statements neutral.