I’ve been hearing a lot of people on the right saying that the left should be in support of tariffs acktually because apparantly they’re a pro working class policy.
This makes no sense because tariffs are a form of regressive taxation. In what world is making basic goods more expensive supposed to help the working class? Furthermore, tariffs are a form of nationalism which will increase tensions between nations, and the left should be internationalist.
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I’ve been hearing a lot of people on the right saying that the left should be in support of tariffs acktually because apparantly they’re a pro working class policy.
This makes no sense because tariffs are a form of regressive taxation. In what world is making basic goods more expensive supposed to help the working class? Furthermore, tariffs are a form of nationalism which will increase tensions between nations, and the left should be internationalist.
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Tariffs are the opposite of free market and historically the GOP was free market focused.
That isn’t the case anymore.
No they’re aren’t. It’s the working class who is going to be paying the price for these tariffs.
Yeah historically tariffs are more of a left wing policy but even leftists would support more targeted tariffs for specific important industries.
What trump is doing is monumentally stupid that no one except brainwashed mags supporters want
Not really. The left tends to be more internationist which doesn’t jive with tariffs. Tariffs are not “pro-working class.” They don’t take the working class into consideration at all. They’re anti-competitive and protectionist. The left believes in dynamism and evolution whereas the right believes in freezing everything in place and having little to no evolution. Tariffs fit into the right wing world view on paper even though they don’t make sense in reality.
No, that’s nonsense – tariffs are neither left nor right wing inherently. They’re simply a tool, and like any tool they can be used responsibly and/or for good purposes, or they can be used irresponsibly and/or for bad purposes. Needless to say, what Trump is doing is a prime example of the latter.
Tariffs are pretty bipartisan, idiotic, populist policy. Bernie sanders supports tariffs/trade protectionism, though to a much lesser extent than Trump.
Normal people that don’t support dogshit populist policy on both the left and right don’t like tariffs.
You don’t just support tariffs for the sake of tariffs and act like the more tariffs the better. They’re a tool which can be used or abused, they can be used smartly or stupidly. Biden implemented tariffs too. Notice how nobody was bitching about them? Not a double-standard, Biden understood the impact of his tariffs before implementing them.
No lol
There is just endless post hoc rationalization here from the right.
“They are a negotiating tactic”
“they are to bring back manufacturing”
“they will fix the deficit”,
and now “well actually you should be happy because they are left wing.”
On and on. These people have made supporting Trump a core part of their identity. To admit that the tariffs make no sense would trigger unimaginable cognitive dissonance. Any rationalization will do.
Tariffs are the least efficient way to help the working class possible.
Yeah, you’ll get 3,000 factory jobs back. And lose 100,000 desk jobs.
It’s a policy designed to look like it helps the working class, but bypasses anything necessary that’s actually going to work – which is essentially raise the top marginal tax rate to 90% and tax billionaires out of existence.
People on the right are saying lots of crazy-wrong and deliberately deceitful things. That’s not new but it’s gotten worse since Republicans sold out their last small shred of decency to Trump and his ability to sucker people into voting for him and against their own interests.
Tariffs aren’t left wing. They’re something that’s only sensible for some developing countries that have an immature economy.
That you use the term “leftwing” in your question makes me suspect you’re right wing.
A lot of people are saying that it’s historically a leftwing policy, and while I’m not remotely a history buff, isn’t a nationalist agenda (i.e. ‘tax foreign goods way more’) typical and traditional of conservative ideology?
I’d might even remove it from a liberal vs conservative lens altogether, though: I’d expect those areas and industries with higher imports to be against tariffs regardless of left-right lean, and those areas that don’t import much and might face direct competition from oversea imports to support tariffs regardless of left-right lean.
As an old dude, I do find this interesting. Growing up, democrats were not in favor of unrestricted trade, and republicans like Reagan was a huge proponent. There was a lot of concern about losing jobs to free trade (it was undercutting union protections and environmental protections).
I definitely remember Clinton being a real shift, and at the time thinking- the free trade argument had won and was now bi-partisan. It was actually things like this issue that led me to vote for Nader and the Green Party.
Here is the thing- it’s not so much tariffs as it is transition. I generally am pretty free trade, but can see the argument for defense based production. I do think it’s a problem if all rare earth metals are processed in China.
But more importantly, I am for sane, well thought out policy that is predictable and manages the pros and cons.
This is not that.
Tariffs are just a tool for trade protectionism and aren’t really political by themselves. Both parties have used them. These are just particularly dumb.
Trump references the age of Teddy Roosevelt when bragging about his tariffs. Back then, the US was an agrarian nation. We produced cotton, rum, bourbon, agriculture, and even textiles. There were no expansive supply chains that crossed hundreds of borders, involved shipping, rail and air spanning the globe. People died rather young. It was not a utopia for labor.
The automobile had yet to be mass produced. Humans hadn’t even achieved stable flight. The US was a country of 25M horses.
If you want to return us to that era, maybe tariffs might make sense. But what I recall from history, THEY STILL LEAD US TO THE GREAT DEPRESSION.
There’s nothing in tariffs for the left, save those who are accelerationists, actively looking for western civilization to fall apart so that they can take over by force.
Tariffs are Populist each party through the years moves back and forth on varying degrees of populism
Depends on definition of leftwing.
The past few days, Fox News has been running packages of out of context video going all the way back into the 2000s of various prominent liberals (including Obama and Pelosi) expressing support for tariffs.
They’re typically running this with an angle of “the left used to support tariffs… but now they’re against them, because they’re always against everything Donald Trump says.”
I came up with that line of arguing/bullshitting (saying it’s, um, actually something the Democrats should be in favor of) when I was in high school. Along with attacking Democrats for what they attack Republicans for. And the phrase “diversity of ideas.” Imagine my surprise when I saw other people on the internet saying the same things.
Don’t ask questions about whether Republican arguments make sense. They don’t. I know. They’re just throwing whatever out there for you to waste your time on thinking about it.
Tariffs are nuts. Sometimes they become a left wing anti-business/anti-capitalist delusion. Then they switch to a nationalist/pro-local business madness.
They are an apparent easy fix that appeals to stupid ideologues. Fact they don’t work is irrelevant to political fringes. Those people have to ignore history to be who they are.
Crashing the economy to bring down interest rates will only help the rich borrow money cheap and buy up everything the middle class loses.
Tariffs as a strategic tool aren’t right or left wing.
The types of excessive tariffs that the world has been shedding for decades were in the US supported by portions of the left because of the lefts ties to unions. That support was already the minority position by the late 80s and ended when Bill Clinton because the leader of the party.
You get some people like Bernie that talk favorably about tariffs but Bernie is old and stubborn so you kind of have to give him a pass.
The kind of moron tariffs Trump is implementing, absolutely no this isn’t left wing. It’s not even right wing. It’s braindead populist wing.
Tariffs are absolutely not left wing and not sure why anyone on the left ever believed this. Progressives, both Republican and Democrat, have always opposed high protective tariffs because they understood and understand that it is a tax on consumers and a tool of the monopolist.
This is “Askaliberal” not “Askaleftist” I am a Liberal but not a leftist. At no point in my life since I learned about the Great Depression and WWII in like 10th grade have I ever for one second thought tariffs were a good idea. Biden was too protectionist for me. Liberals generally vote for Democrats and don’t like tariffs.
What I heard from the populist left/leftists in the past was that they were angry at corporations for moving overseas and most of their solutions levied punishments on US corporations not necessarily tariffs. There was also a concern about foreign worker exploitation. So their solutions often revolved around trade agreements including basic labor laws for foreign countries. Leftists generally don’t really talk about tariffs to my knowledge.
Certain unions support tariffs. However they are trying to protect their workers and that’s their only demographic. It’s self interest not an overarching political philosophy leftist or not.
Establishment Republicans in the past were the most free trade cheerleaders there were. Now they are gone. Ben Shapiro and Tomas Sowell have expressed their dismay over the tariffs but they helped get the guy who is doing the tariffs elected at least to some degree. Their criticisms ring hollow.
I guess a lot of people are going to finally learn what they should have learned in high school US history.
I would also like to say that the old school Democrats that existed in the past and did support tariffs were often not leftists or liberals they were often quite conservative. I consider them some of history’s villains mostly.
Tariffs can make sense and help in the right circumstances. There is nothing strategic about these tariffs and they will harm the overall economy and especially the working class
Standard move for them. “Thing I don’t like? Must be a liberal thing.”
I think it’s unfortunate that Trump has dragged us into an extremely dumbed down debate of “tariffs good” vs “tariffs bad.” Tariffs can absolutely be good for the working class when used as part of a larger pro-industry strategy. Tariffs used in a hamfisted way like Trump is using them doesn’t seem good for anyone.
The free trade and “anti-protectionist” bent of the last few decades has been a net negative for the working class. We should not see all protectionism as bad just because Trump is pro-tariffs. But nothing about the way Trump is doing tariffs makes any sense.
They can be, when applied surgically and having the appropriate strategy and infrastructure in place to take advantage of them. For example, a protectionist tariff on some good or service that we already have the capacity to make, and which another country is exploiting something (e.g. cheap labor) to undercut local production.
They are a form of regressive taxation no matter the implementation: the tradeoff is whether the aforementioned goods/services are protected in such a way that more working class people benefit from their existence in a greater way than having everyone suffer a little to cover the tax.
Trump’s tariffs are not only nonsense, they don’t even meet the necessary requirements for them to be good policy here: we simply don’t have the manufacturing infrastructure to need them.
Only if it’s like Tanzania trying to protect itself from Americans and Europeans dumping cheap food that outcompetes local farmers. Not when the richest country on earth does it.
These people who claim tariffs are left-wing, and who support tariffs—are they claiming to be left-wing themselves?
Didn’t think so.
They are not ideological. They are not left or right. They are tools of trade.
If someone is telling you this, they are gaslighting.
When will people stop letting the right-wing bullshit dictate how they view policy and political discourse? What gives you any impression that people on the right tell the truth, operate in good faith or are even attached to reality at this current moment?
How can tariffs be pro working class. Tariffs are taxes largely on middle and working class people since they spend a larger proportion of their money on consumer goods than the rich.
Goddamn dude i hate that words don’t seem to have defined definitions any more
No the tariffs aren’t a left wing policy. They are an incompetent policy put in place by a fucking moron.
Tariffs can be used to protect specific industries from competition. This can be desirable under certain limited conditions. But even under these conditions, tariffs introduce inefficiencies and irrational allocations of land and capital if cost were the only factor.
For example, you generally want to make your own weapons, or at the very least, restrict your trade in weapons to allies and ensure a strong domestic or allied production base. Cause if you didn’t do that, you could easily get fucked in a war. Notice, this is only for the case of national defense.
Tariffs BY THEIR VERY NATURE incentive people to do shit that they’re BAD AT.
Left wing politics is about supporting the working class. You know what doesn’t support the working class? Stupid economic policies. Yes tariffs can protect jobs in CERTAIN INDUSTRIES, but they can also COST jobs in other industries BECAUSE SHIT GETS MORE EXPENSIVE.
Goddamn dude I am so sick of this shit
I’m not in favor of our country going into a recession. Trump’s impulsive and not emotionally intelligent. People are going to lose their jobs just cause of this guy’s ego.
The issue is that right now Republicans are being fed propaganda that says tariffs benefit the working class. Tariffs in THEORY benefit workers because it gives American companies an advantage and that should increase production and increase work. And benefiting workers is something the left wing cares about.
But tariffs in America and used the way they are by Trump will increase production but a recession means less spending so the factories won’t need to produce as much.
What folks don’t understand is there is more than one way to skin a pig. And more than one way to help workers. This is a bad way. Leftwing constantly looks for ways to help the workers.
Large corporations pushed for NAFTA to access lower cost labor out of the US. It worked, stocks rose, stockholders got richer. Middle class jobs became more scarce. Wealth gap increased. Tarifs make domestically made products cheaper than globally sourced ones. Potentially bringing mfg jobs, probably better paying jobs, back to US. Companies dependent on global supply chains suffer, and their stock prices decline. In a way what we are seeing is a wealth transfer from rich stock holders to people who will benefit from higher paying jobs. Sounds liberal to me. Prices will go up on imported goods and components. Consumer will pay. It is a consumption based tax vs based on our incomes. If you don’t want to pay the tarif tax don’t buy, or if possible buy american made.
TL/DR aspects of Tarifs benefit poor by stimulating higher paying jobs, and punish the rich by driving down the stock prices of the exploitative corporations they own.
Hahahaha no.
They’re absurdly regressive as a tax. And they’re Paleolithic in economic theory.
Well let’s ask the left themselves about tariffs and trade:
Former Vice President Al Gore:
>This is a choice between the politics of fear and the politics of hope. It’s a choice between the past and the future. It’s a choice between pessimism and optimism. It’s a choice between the status quo – leave things as they are – enact new tariffs on Mexico and I don’t know who else, or move forward into the future with confidence. We’re not scared. We’re not a nation of quitters. We’re not a nation that is afraid to compete in the world marketplace and when we face a choice as important as this one, it is extremely important that we make the right decision. This is a fork in the road. The whole world is watching.
Ok ok that was just a joke! Everyone knows Gore was just neoliberal Clinton’s partner. Let’s ask a non neoliberal Democrat. Like the big progressive Great Society guy who massively expanded government intervention to help people in need, the man, the legend,
Lyndon Baines Johnson:
>A nation’s trade lines are its life lines. Open trade lines and active commerce lead to economic health and growth. Closed trade lines end in economic stagnation.
>When trade barriers fall, the American people and the American economy benefit. Open trade lines:
>-Reduce prices of goods from abroad.
>-Increase opportunities for American businesses and farms to export their products. This means expanded production and more job opportunities.
>-Help improve the efficiency and competitive strength of our industries. This means a higher rate of economic growth for our nation and higher incomes for our people.
…woah, LBJ was also a free trader? But how could that be? Was he a neoliberal corporatist reaganite too???
Ok, let’s ask the OG Medicare For All supporter who ran a populist left campaign in 1948 running on things like single payer, let’s see the opinions on trade and tariffs from…
Harry S Truman: (surely a 💖 populist 💖 like him opposed free trade and supported tariffs, right?)
>From the long-range standpoint, it is clear that only by a large expansion of our purchases of foreign goods will the needed readjustment in international economic relations be possible, on a basis consistent with a liberal world trading system, and the richer world it offers. We must reduce our own barriers, wherever possible, to permit our people the freest access to the foreign goods they may want to buy. The maintenance and the enlargement of our export markets are impossible without a substantial expansion of our imports. As the world’s greatest creditor nation, it is our special responsibility to welcome imports.
Holy shit
Well surely Mr 4 terms himself, the king of the New Deal, the man, the legend, the creator of social security and the true bully pulpit progressive didn’t support free trade, right? What about…
Franklin Delano Roosevelt:
>…from the soil itself springs our ability to restore our trade with the other Nations of the world…
>In the course of his 1928 campaign, the present Republican candidate for President with great boldness laid down the propositions that high tariffs interfere only slightly, if at all, with our export or our import trade, that they are necessary to the success of agriculture and afford essential farm relief; that they do not interfere with the payments of debts by other Nations to us, and that they are absolutely necessary to the economic formula which he proposed at that time as the road to the abolition of poverty. And I must pause here for a moment to observe that the experience of the past four years has unhappily demonstrated the error, the gross, fundamental, basic error of every single one of those propositions — but four years ago! — that every one of them has been one of the effective causes of the present depression; and finally that no substantial progress toward recovery from this depression, either here or abroad, can be had without a forthright recognition of those errors.
>And so I am asking effective action to reverse the disastrous policies which were based on them.
>The destructive effect of the Grundy tariff on export markets has not been confined to agriculture. It has ruined our export trade in industrial products as well.
Ok, well, maybe FDR was just a liberal neoliberal hack who did the New Deal to prevent a REAL leftist workers movement from popping up and ending capitalism.
If we want to see what the REAL left thought about tariffs and trade, we need to look to…
Karl Marx and Frederick Engels (1888, “On The Question Of Free Trade”):
>Nearly two years ago, I said to a protectionist American:
>”I am convinced that if America goes in for Free Trade, she will in 10 years have beaten England in the market of the world.”
>Protection is at best an endless screw, and you never know when you have done with it. By protecting one industry, you directly or indirectly hurt all others, and have therefore to protect them too. By so doing you again damage the industry that you first protected, and have to compensate it; but this compensation reacts, as before, on all other trades, and entitles them to redress, and so on ad infinitum. America, in this respect, offers us a striking example of the best way to kill an important industry by protectionism. In 1856, the total imports and exports by sea of the United State amounted to $641,604,850. Of this amount, 75.2 per cent were carried in American, and only 24.8 per cent in foreign vessels. British ocean steamers were already then encroaching upon American sailing vessels; yet, in 1860, of a total seagoing trade of $762,288,550, American vessels still carried 66.5 per cent.
>The Civil War came on, and protection to American shipbuilding; and the latter plan was so successful that it has nearly completely driven the American flag from the high seas. In 1887, the total seagoing trade of the United States amounted to $1,408,502,979, but of this total only 13.8 per cent were carried in American, and 86.2 per cent in foreign bottoms. The goods carried by American ships amounted, in 1856, to $482,268,274; in 1860 to $507,247,757. In 1887, they had sunk to $194,356,746. Forty years ago, the American flag was the most dangerous rival of the British flag, and bade fair to outstrip it on the ocean; now it is nowhere. Protection to shipbuilding has killed both shipping and shipbuilding.
Holy shit
So, the clear conclusion is that
Bill Clinton’s support of free trade and against tariffs wasn’t some sort of aberration of a democratic party that had abandoned the left and workers, but was a manner of continuity between the Clinton administration and the New Deal/Great Society Democrats more typically associated with being progressive and pro worker politics, and a similarity even shared between all of those and the anticapitalist far left as expressed by Marx/Engels themselvesHerbert Hoover and Donald Trump are the only true leftists?If something is generally considered regressive then it’s rightwing. If it’s generally considered progressive, then it’s left wing.
Note: When speaking on tariffs as regressive, remember that we are talking about the Trump brand of chat gpt formulated tariffs. If they are targeted and approved of by a majority of well known and respected economists then I’m all for them. Trumps tariffs are not only regressive but will more than likely cause a worldwide Great Depression.
Before ai we had google, now we had chatgpt, gemini… dude, ask the bot to explain to you tariff on its own opinion…
They are leftwing for someone dogmatic and detached from best-practice policy, like Bernie Sanders, other than that, Democrats have come to the consensus that it is all around a bad policy
Well-strategized and well-calculated tariffs are good for the working class. When targeted to particular industries and countries, they can be great for incentivizing on-shore job creation. Blanket tariffs to all countries based on insanity like trade deficits is insane and hurts EVERYONE.
Tariffs are just a tool they can be used for left wing or right wing goals and they can be very stupid or very smart. Trumps are obviously very stupid and right wing.
Oh, just stop. You know they’re not. We all know they’re not.
I’m gonna push back on some of the tribalism here — tariffs have generally been Left-wing. The theories that endorse their use, and politicians who implement them across most of the world since 1945, are largely Left-leaning. They involve greater government regulation and taxation and were opposed by distinctly right-wing, free-market Austrian economists.
That said, some right-wingers arrive at their beliefs for fear of a dangerous world of zero-sum struggles and exploitation, accepting as a given that “the strong do as they can and the weak suffer what they must”. The most bigoted ones are inclined to brush off supporters of free trade as “globalists” (often an ethnic dog whistle for Jewish financiers).
So for far-Right nationalists, the appeal of tariffs is more an effect of their (scarily warped) beliefs, to hell with the consequences. But for the free-market/mainstream/Libertarian-leaning Right-wingers, the knowable consequences of many tariffs is a cause of their beliefs.
They aren’t really left wing or right wing. Various countries have tried it at various times. Usually when moderate left wing people want tariffs they are pretty limited in scope. For instance the one on electric cars to keep China out of the market with the objective of reinforcing US manufacturing of a new product.
Tariffs are decidedly neutral. As they have a complex affect on the economy. Some of that benefits workers. Some of that harms them. So it depends where you are on the chain and in the world
> This makes no sense because tariffs are a form of regressive taxation.
Indeed
Generally speaking, republicans used to be against big government and government control and interference in things like the free market. Current republicans are the party of government control over everything. When I was growing up, dems were the ones who wanted to do artificial things like tariffs to prop up American businesses. Republicans would have said, if a business can’t survive in America without help, then they’re not a successful business and the money and effort put into it should be spent doing something else. So yes any interference in the free market to give American businesses a competitive advantage used to be a left wing position. It’s not anymore
A lot of left wing groups have been into protectionism in general and they fall under that. Tarrifs are not really left or right though because there is also protectionism on the right.
They are populist you could say and that exists on the left and right. Just on the stupid ends of both.
Targeted tariffs can be useful. Blanket tariffs are ignorant and destructive. This is going to cripple the economy.
Wow..the country is crumbling and fright wingers just wanna own the libs.
I think it is possible that targeted tariffs could be at least arguably considered left wing in some circumstances, but I don’t think they are universally so, and certainly not universal tariffs which is just a regressive sales tax.
Tariffs are economic policy that isn’t necessarily a pro left or right thing. They are just effective tools to protect domestic industries that are struggling against foreign producers that are able to produce cheaper, often because of a lack of employee rights and climate regulation.
Of course, a blanket tariff against a country rather against specific industry, has never been applied because it’s useless. There is no reason to impose tariffs on goods you’re not producing, it just hurts your domestic consumers.
Companies aren’t going to move to your nation. Not only is there no infrastructure to support such industry, but as long as there is no domestic competition, the consumer base will still consume your products. The tariffs are, essentially, ignored by the companies at that point, as the consumer base will simply pay.
Tariffs are just an economic tool used by competent, and apparently incompetent, governments. Thinking they are left or right wing is a misunderstanding of how economics works.
Tarriffs are terrible period – Think about it like this …. Someone is deciding for me what I can buy …..
What if I want a Ducati Motorcycle …. Shouldn’t it be my choice ?
Tarriffs limit your choices and let Domestic Providers over charge you & provide a sub standard product – I remember American Cars in the 1980’s & 90’s …. Junk
Tarriffs are just a quick way to raise our Tax’s without the Congress taking the Heat –
They whip up the Stupid People with Blue Collar Bigotries and they wave the Flag as Trump steals their money
No tariffs are a tool nothing more nothing less.