As we know, Latin American countries like Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, etc. have massive populations of Italian descent.
Italy used to give out citizenship by descent – stretching all the way back to, I believe, 1861.
Well, apparently yesterday that law has now changed and Italy no longer gives citizenship by descent stretching that many generations back because Italian consulates were being totally flooded and couldn’t keep up with the demand for the Italian passport.
The citizenship by descent laws have been tightened much, much more.
The spokesperson for the tightening of Italian citizenship by descent even said roughly ‘Italian citizenship is a serious thing and can’t just be used to go shopping to Miami.”
What do you all think about this?
Comments
RIP the main income source of the Primera Division Argentina.
Well, what are you going to do? . .
https://preview.redd.it/egwm98qbopre1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=9d00d06b010e2f0d2110369a6d4ccd9fc09e2718
Having no dog in the fight I think it’s fair
Meh. I don’t care. However, I wish them good luck; they’ll need it.
One of the oldest populations in the world, extreme demographic crisis… also, not exactly the most complex and developed economy in Europe, standing far behind Germany, France and the UK.
Their future looks grim.
Well, even though I think he’s right on the kind of people that take advantage of law previously, the aging population of Europe could get some help from immigrants
Makes sense to me tbh. People here try to get the citizenship for it’s perks, not because of any particular allegiance towards Italy. I’d know because I did the same with Spain lmao, though thankfully in my case my parents took care of that when I was born.
When it comes to Spanish citizenship, for example, if you got it from a family member who also got it through ancestry, then you have to go to the consulate before turning 21 and state that you wish to keep the citizenship, or you lose it. I could have lost it if I hadn’t paid attention. That’s a pretty slick way of weeding out foreign citizens.
Though honestly I’m not sure what Europeans actually want. If they don’t like people getting citizenship through blood, then they should make it a birthright citizenship like all normal countries do. But then they’d have to recognize the children of migrants as citizens. They can’t have their cake and eat it too.
Amazing. Just because it’ll annoy all those Argentinians that keep calling themselves "Italian".
I was never really a fan of argentinians and brazilians and venezuelans taking advantage of that policy. If they had moved to italy when they got the citizenship I would have been supportive but they always moved to spain and defeated the purpose now italy is losing population and aging lol
you reap what you sow
edit: salty downvotes
Don’t care, althought I could apply to it
I don’t care, Italy is beautiful, but I have always found their bureaucracy maddening, and crime way too regressive for any country to be okay with.
They just messed up my entire citizenship process, but oh well. I understand why they did it, and it’s logical.
It’s their right, just as it is Latin America’s right to restrict immigration from Italy.
I totally agree as a person who would only get the inca empire passport by descent
Just like Serie A, it became a place for retirees. The fallout needs to be studied.
I’m really not surprised that the super gallicized northern italian centric government is disowning the descendants of the more backwards, rural south italian diaspora. Many italian immigrants to the US went there before italy was a country. This is what stupid redditors don’t understand, italian was an ethnicity before it was a nationality. The same way one can call seth rogen or Winona ryder a jew despite them being practically white, one can call antony fantano or whatever an italian.
Idgaf. I hate my compatriots that call themselves italian and they are 4th generation born in Florencio Varela. You’re argentinian, cut the crap. Plus, most of italian descendants (at least here) are poor/low middle class, so the Italian government doesn’t want them.
Spain still has the 2 year period (in lieu of 10) for those from former colonies/viceroys, and Portugal.
Understandable, most people getting Italian citizenship by descent aren’t staying in Italy. Also I believe most European countries that allow citizenship by descent only allow it up to someone’s grandparents having citizenship of a given country, if anything Italy was already a very lenient exception to it.
I got the citizenship with an ancestor that came to Argentina in 1894. While gathering the documents sometimes it felt more like archeology than a bureaucratic process. The last bit makes sense, I and many others really only get the citizenship just to go to the US without a visa
Don’t really care?
They are free to be stricter with that like any other country
In Brazil I see two major reactions:
“Pity, no Miami visa-free anymore”: folks for which Italian citizenship was mostly a travel affair (no visa in US, who knows if I must flee Brazil one day)…sad, but mostly secretly understood that Italian citizenship abroad became a mess and that the door would be closed someday
“Mama, Sono Italiano Vero di Rio Grande o Sorocaba”: Those are in denial and claiming that they’re more Italians than a boy born and raised in Milan even if their last Italian on family emigrated some 150 years ago…generally they base their “Italianess” on really stereotypical aspects (to be loudy, to enjoy Brazilian-Italian dishes, to sing a 19th century song etc)
I’m already a citizen, so most of it doesn’t affect me. I think what happened is the logical conclusion of the way people abused the system. I understand why you’d do it, but this is the consequence. Now there’ll be people with Italian parents that won’t be able to receive their parents citizenship because of those trying to prove their ancestry with records from the early 20th century.
I sort of understand. It must have been too easy for too many people to move to Italy, a lot of them probably used the citizenship to go somewhere else anyway, and the program had to end eventually or at some point anyone and everyone could have moved to Italy.
Still, these programs can make one dream. Being able to get citizenship with another country just because your ancestors lived there? That’s amazing.
Not that I would know how it feels, I don’t qualify for any such program. My ancestors are all from France and have all been here for over 400 years. If I want to move anywhere, I have to do it the hard way.
I think italy is being kind dumb in it because for many people in this countries the languege in the only barrier to fullfill the dream of live there, which would resolve their population issue with people very similar ethnically
Largely irrelevant here.
1-Sad but honestly fair enough, I feel like it was actually being taken advantage of, many didnt have an interest at all in being italian citizens, they just wanted italian passports
2-Haha argentinians in shambles rn
How will Argentinians ever recover?
I think that they waited too long to restrict the citizenship but I also think that they were dumb when it came to how to restrict the citizenship.
They really should’ve added a combination of residency and language proficiency requirements in order to help bring young people into Italy.
Another option would’ve been to just raise the fees to the point of it being a significant income source. e.g. a hundred thousand euros per applicant who is a descendent from an Italian who is beyond grandfather level.
A lot of people spent money to get birth certificates both here and in Italy, translations, consultants… those people are p*ssd.
I dodged a bullet, applied years ago. 🤷♀️
It makes sense, italians are one of the largest diaspora in the world so the law made millions of people elegible for italian citzenship even altough they never planned to live in Italy.
I think it’s a bad measure.
Don’t get me wrong, the previous law was very lax and needed a serious reform. But a reform that would benefit Italy.
Instead of imposing such strict generational limits, the new law should’ve instead focused on attracting descendants to Italy. Italy could have a similar law to the Israeli “Law of Return”, which requires Jewish descendants abroad to move to Israel and learning the culture or serving the country before getting citizenship. This way Italy could attract thousands of immigrants from a very similar culture (not only because they are Italian descendants, but also because they are from similar countries), when the country is in the middle of a huge demographical crisis.
Such a lost opportunity to make something great for the country while also helping Italian descendants get a better future.
On the other hand, I think Tajani comments and some other opinions I’ve read are unrespectful towards people and countries that helped Italians when they needed. Thanks to mass emigration to Argentina, US, Brazil, etc., Italy avoided a huge humanitarian crisis that would’ve made the country collapse. And these emigrants also helped rebuild Italy with remittances and by turning back with savings.
While I also support the ius culturae and reforming the lax ius sanguinis law, I think that this reform isn’t the right thing.
It’s actually a copypaste of the UK and French citizenship law, and similar to Spain’s residence requirment, but there’s a small difference between Italy and these countries: Italy wasn’t a colonial power, so unlike UK, France or Spain that project their soft power through their former colonies, Italy did so by connecting with its diaspora abroad. Similar to what other non-colonial countries with huge diasporas like Poland, Hungary, Croatia and to a lesser extent Germany do.
So it’s bad for Italy’s ability to exercise some softpower abroad.
Ítalo-paulistas in shambles
Its good i think. It was a bit unfair since you could be born in 2001 and had ONE ancestor born in 1888 and just because of it be italian.. really? Nono came here in the 1600s, where is my passport?.
In adition, like many people said, many people didnt cared about italy and just wanted to move to the rest of europe. For example, When messi started to play in Spain, his dad went to italy to try to get passport.
I’m putting black beans and mayo on my pasta out of spite now
My grandfather never claimed to be Italian but fruilian. I totally agree with him now
On the one hand, it’s logical. Italy gets little benefit from it – other than their national team.
On the other, they have a demographic crisis and you would think they would try to get people in the door. If the issue is that people get the citizenship then go work for other European countries they could have put the residence requirement as a pre-requisite but not close the door.
It’s also a bit hypocritical to give Milei the citizenship a few months before this.
dont care
Oh no…,.we are doommmm.
I don’t care even a little.
Latin America was always the land of community. The Incas based their sociability into reciprocity, amazonian and atlantic forest tribes had commercial routes that crossed south america and Pierre Clastres’ ethnography about Brazilian tribes describes social mechanisms that tribes used to put the community above even the leaders’ will.
Even today in Brazil, indigenous people from different tribes call themselves "parente" (which means ‘someone that is family related’). Besides that, there are reports from colonisation stating that tribes helped Portuguese navigators when they arrived struggling with hunger and without knowing how to hunt, what to eat or where were safe to build a camp.
I don’t really know what makes latin america so friendly, but I would blame pre-colonization heritage and the fact that Portugal and Spain brought a lot of slaves from a lot of different regions and nothing builds friendship faster than a common enemy.
Sounds based af ngl
IMHO! It was being abused wayyyyy too much! I’ve been asked in the past by border control in Argentina and Colombia why I haven’t gotten citizenship, because I can qualify based off my parents, but honestly it’s wayyy too much paperwork, time and money for something that I honestly may not benefit from in the future!
Good honestly, im not a nationalist by any means but i have always find kinda pathetic the third/four generation of italian diaspora who really believe themselves to be italians just because their last name is
Fanculo! 🤌
I was starting to try to trace my ancestry (eh I’ll siit anyway).I genuinely wanted live in Italy.
They could have tried have Italians who live abroad pay a tax or fee.
The Italian government is a far-right, traditional one. I don’t know why people are surprised. Far-right governments will continue to take these kinds of decisions, it won’t be just Italy, so anyone who can get citizenship through descent from another country should start doing it asap.
What I think about it? In one hand I think it’s unfair to people who were in the process of obtaining the citizenship, but in the other hand, don’t we always say having a Latino direct ancestor doesn’t make you Latino? Italy is basically saying the same thing. Having an Italian great grandparent doesn’t make you Italian. They are within their right to do such a thing. I hate Meloni, but this is the least evil thing she has done.
All countries (on all continents) should close their borders—not completely, but only allowing a few thousands of people in each year, only to the cities where they are needed. Then, if you stay in the country for a few years and you work, you can obtain citizenship. And, of course, no one should be given citizenship so they can go shopping to Miami. And if a country needs more children, it should implement a national plan to increase pregnancies and birth rates. Countries need control and organization.
They should change it. Most people in Argentina who got the Italian citizenship only did it to get EU access, even if they don’t exactly plan to move to Italy. So the real problem wasn’t that people whose grandparents were Italian were claiming citizenship, but rather that it was a bureaucratic hell for Italian consulates and a waste of time and money.
Instead what they should have done is to keep all the generations back, but ask that you move and work in Italy for a few years (say 2 or 3) before being given the citizenship. They grant you a work permit instead. That way they keep attracting young people that actually are interested in moving to Italy while simultaneously reducing the costs and the people that aren’t interested in Italy at all.
No longer giving or is it more strict? Make up your mind.
I don’t think they thought this through, for one, given their population decline (and given that, as a right-wing nationalist government I cannot see them welcoming immigrants from, say, Africa or the Middle East). I also think that this is a bad look in light of the expedited Italian citizenship they granted President Milei of Argentina a few months ago. It’s a bad look. I do get their point about the expenses and about how many people who access this right take it lightly.
On the other hand, I’ve expected something like this for a while. I’ve been an Italian citizen for over ten years, so this does not personally affect me, though I know people who are not going to be happy.
The only thing I will say is that latinamerica didn’t treat Spanish and Italians like this when they were in trouble
This totally destroyed the marriage between Milei and Meloni. She prefered the indian boy, Mohdi 😭😭😭😭😭
I have no Italian ancestry so this doesn’t affect or phase me lol
Lol Venezuelans were abusing this
Not a Latino, but my take is:
It’s just Meloni being Meloni. She is Italy’s Trump. She has such bad reputation she had clarify that “she wasn’t going to try to implement the Italian blood purity law again”.
Ah yeah, she will go a hell of a job keeping Latinamericans out of her country, folks who at least have partial Italian ancestry and who are Christian and speak a similar language (Spanish). But Italy has a demographics problem and it’s getting full of Islamic immigration, she is shooting herself in the foot here, and it serves her right
They changed the law so you must have at least one Italian born grandparent (or parent) so a lot of people will still be able to apply. They’ll definitely have way less people applying now, though, so maybe the process will be faster for those who can still qualify.
It’s what makes sense for them, because their system had been flooded with applications for a long time now.
This hurt all of those Latin Americans that thought they were “superior” only because they had Italian surnames.
I want Spanish citizenship 🙁 I was always jealous of Venezuelans and Argentinians who could just pop an EU passport out of thin air, especially the former group since they rarely had Italian surnames and were much further removed from their Italian ancestors.
But still, I’d do it if I could do it sucks to hear this
Foda-se
the whole world is just kinda fucked.
Tutti fascisti
I dont think y really care? It only affects the italian descendants that are rich enought to be able to afford going out of the country to vacation or move in there(if they payed classes to learn italian ig, idk if it was a requirement) xd
I expected it, it might go back in the future, who knows, there is always some ups and downs going on over there
It gives me a lot less headache and a lot less arguing with fools.
Allow me to explain:
My Italian citizenship is my birth right.
Why: my father is Italian , my grandparents are Italian – so I’m entitled to the passport , to all claims I’m Italian , from being considered for mandatory military service, to taxes , voting and land titles.
When I’ve contended over the years of others claiming thier Italian – from Bangladeshi’s, Indians , confused Africans etc, and them to then in turn use it against me , because they can some how speak Italian better than me, is genuine heartache.
So – Grazie to the Italian goverment for finally getting our house in order…. Even if it hurts others in the process….
got mine
Far Right wing in power cracking down on immigration. Just wait until the pendulum swings back to the left…
Does make sense in some regards, many of the applicants never set foot on Italy or even met their descendant, so claiming Italian citizenship would feel like a bit of a stretch.
I don’t think it’s smart for Italy, however, as it could’ve been a way for them to fight their declining population by attracting immigrants with even a loose connection to the country and somewhat similar cultures, instead of the Arab or African immigrants many Europeans have a problem with.
Didn’t even know y’all were doing that?
TBH if you don’t speak the language, you shouldn’t claim the heritage. 3rd generation is where usually it’s diluted enough it’s no longer even close to the one in the motherland.
I don’t care
I was thinking of applying for an Italian citizenship, but after this, it’s off the table. I understand why they did it as the previous requirements were very easy to abuse; in fact, many Argentines just used it as a gateway into the EU and migrated to Spain instead of Italy.
That said, I also believe Italy is ultimately shooting themselves in the foot, not only due to their demographic crisis but because the type of immigrants they receive from Argentina and Brazil tend to be skilled, middle/upper class people.
Good for them .
With all the handouts mexico is doing i wish we did this.
too many brazilian trannys took advantage of this so they put a stop to it
It was slightly predictable lol.
But, it’s true that even if I already have the Italian passport, studied Italian for quite a bit, even traveled several times to Italy…I’m not geniuenly thinking about moving to Italy in the near future.
And again, I do love Italian culture, the food, all Italy’s history, from Rome to present day which is absolutely intriguing, but, I am also aware that things are not going well in Italy. Not to mention some of the racism from Peninsula Italians to non-Peninsula Italians.
So yeah, for me there is a sum of everything, for which I would probably move to Switzerand or any Scandinavian country trough my Italian passport, but other than that, I don’t feel offended lol.
Fucked me up