From what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem like dems are losing in liberal areas. So I’m curious as to what the thought process is on this.
From what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem like dems are losing in liberal areas. So I’m curious as to what the thought process is on this.
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From what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem like dems are losing in liberal areas. So I’m curious as to what the thought process is on this.
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Because if they go right they may as well just not exist
I don’t necessarily agree, but the logic is that the only people who are decently fine with the Democrats right now are more moderate liberals. The far left are very upset, and they hope it works like the right does. The moderates bend to the craziest members of the party, so if you put a farther left candidate in, since the alternative is Trump, you hold the middle while picking up the farther left.
I don’t think so many liberals believe that—I think the furthest left portion of liberals believe that. It is likely because in their social circle the liberals they know are frustrated with current Democratic politicians, so they assume this is the norm. They aren’t thinking about the some 30% of Democrats who are put off by their politics, because they don’t know those people or talk to them.
Because Democrats going to the right is the cause of their incredibly bad image among voters. They’re just seen as useless doormats who are at best Republican Light.
A few things come to mind. Voters historically like liberal policies when they aren’t mentioned with a political party. We haven’t really ever tried a general election pres candidate that was unapologetically liberal. Finally why would a voter go for Repub lite when they can just pick the real deal.
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Because every time they move right it doesn’t help.
The thought process is that people want politicians and political candidates who are populists and who aren’t afraid to challenge and maybe break the status quo. Centrist corporate types are not going to do this.
Democrats sided with neoconservatives this last election. I keep hearing about a radical left but I can’t find it. People like Bernie Sanders and AOC are constantly sidelined for moderate democrats.
> From what I’ve seen it doesn’t seem like dems are losing in liberal areas. So I’m curious as to what the thought process is on this.
Two comments here.
1) iirc there was a slip in support in blue areas in 2024 and Harris moving so much to the center was a factor in that.
2) the American electorate doesn’t actually reliably lay along the left – right axis. A huge portion of voters pick and choose policy they like without having any sort of consistent ideology or forethought. Due to this, you have a huge portion of folks who self identify as moderate but support left wing policy the Dems (largely) refuse to give lip service to. As a point of reference, Bernie Sanders is +15 with self identifying moderates according to the last YouGov/Economist poll.
Conservatism is fundamentally in opposition to the interests of the working class, whether or not conservative working class voters realize it or not. The working class comprises the majority of voters. If the Democrats move left and commit to more progressive policies, things will improve for the working class and they’ll ultimately win more support because of the tangible benefits their policies bring. The Dems have been losing because they’re marketing themselves basically as "sane Republicans", except if you’re a more conservative voter, you’re just going to vote for the more conservative party. The Dems are trying to please everyone and in so doing are pleasing no one. They need to take a more solidly progressive stance and commit to it. That’s the only way they’ll stand out. Because right now, they appear to be a party that does little to nothing at all from the voters’ perspective.
Did you see the response to Kamala’s meeting with cheyney and others on the right?
Did you see the response more recently to newsom meeting with right wing personalities?
Democrats don’t want the left to become the right, they want the Dems to be a party that can actually fight and win and get things done and for the working people again.
Any Democrat that pander to politicians and pundits on the right will lose. They need to focus on voters and policies that people like.
Going "left" doesn’t mean giving out gender reassignment to toddlers and paying reparations in the form of $50,000 to anyone that claims descendancy from a slave. Going "left" means taking on the large capitalists that are currently ratfucking us when it comes to wages, rent, and commodity prices. Going "left" means making it simple, easy, and affordable to get healthcare. Going "left" means rendering unto the people the benefits of living in the worlds richest country, instead of letting a handful of people hold almost all of the wealth.
Also want to add that they call people like Obama and Biden socialists, marxists and communists regardless so let’s at least get free healthcare out of it.
Taking any sort of genuine stance at all is considered going further left in today’s political hellscape.
I don’t care if 75% of people are against trans people in sports. I don’t care that most people were against civil rights back in the day.
The will of the people is not always moral.
We move left and fight for progress because it’s the right thing to do.
Please state WHAT going further left looks like. What is it? I don’t see Dems going left at all. If anything, going even more middle ground conservative.
Establishment Democrats have this idea that they can peel off a fractional percentage of Republican voters if they stop being Democrats, and instead portraying themselves as the Republican-Lite party.
There are lots of problems with this view, not least of which:
Democrats outnumber Republicans. Progressive values are more popular than conservative hate mongering.
Democrats can and will win elections if they lean into their progressive values.
It’s not a “planned response” – I think most (at least millennials) genuinely want universal healthcare, education, and social security. People our age in France are getting ready in a few years to retire at 42 and we are over here burried in unimaginable debt, can’t own houses, can’t pay for weddings, can’t afford kids or daycare. While billionaires wealth continues to grow exponentially on the backs of our labor. Every dime we make goes to paying debt, healthcare, and outrageously high rents or mortgages that would have been a fraction of what they are when our parents grew up.
Fighting for social freedoms is important, but that has been the focus for so long that we have essentially turned all control of the economy over to the right and they are robbing us dry.
The party has not moved leftward in response to increased rightward movement by Republicans. They have appeased by following to the right, even when the GOP’s abject obeisance to the more overtly fascist wing of their party was undeniable. When was that, you may ask? Well, I had my worries about Trump from day 1 of his candidacy, but for me, that moment was "stop the steal" and the lead-up to Jan 6th. Nominating Trump in 2024 was just the 2nd coat of paint.
I really don’t know what’s going to happen now, but they need to be stopped, and I’m fairly sure that appeasement (meaning following rightward) and "going high" (adhering to previous liberal good-faith civility standards) will not help. It’s probably a good time to start playing dirty, and maybe think about leaning in to all their bullshit critiques (like "So MuCh FoR tHe ToLeRaNt LeFt") in as many ways as possible. The next time some right-wing media piece of shit like Ben Shapiro or some Trump administration hack says that, I want whomever they’re bitching about to look them right in the eye and answer: "Yep. Guess so. And?" We need to learn to actually stand up to them, because if we don’t, I don’t have a good feeling about 2026 midterms or 2028.
One of the contributing factors to Trumps win was low voter turnout. The dems don’t really offer anything exciting. Going to the right isn’t engaging.
People want to see real improvements in their lives. Medicare for all. Aggressively going after corruption. Raise real wages.
The dems offer more of the same. There is a significant number of people who voted for Obama then voted for Trump. In their own way, each candidate represented change. People are sick of the status quo and are willing to go backwards rather than forwards if it means things change.
I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, voters can be swayed. look at how fast trump has been able to garner support in the last 4-8 years. It can happen incredibly quickly. The way that you sway voters is an exciting message- doesn’t really matter left or right. You just need some loose logic about how your platform actually improves things. The center is not exciting, and is generally just a continuation of the status who, and I don’t know a single person that is happy with the status quo. Democrats act like the electorate is unchanging, when that’s is clearly not the case.
The biggest problem with my own argument is that the dems are fucking horrible at politics. They could have the best platform ever in the history of humanity, and still lose elections, because they are totally clueless on how to convince people. They suck at messaging. They don’t even believe anything, and the electorate can see that. Why should I trust a dem to improve things if immediately after an election loss they throw up their hands and say “I guess we have to abandon everything and move to the right.”
I don’t and I find it frustrating. I don’t think the issue has anything to do with going further right or further left and I think that conversation misses the point.
I think Democrats need to understand what voters care about, focus on those things with understandable messages and then actually accomplish things people can feel in their real lives when (and where) they have power.
I know this is hard for people to believe but the actual ideological difference between Marie Gluesenkamp Perez and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is not that big compared to Marie Gluesenkamp Perez and any republican.
> dems are losing in liberal areas.
Uhh…. Howzat?
Dems need to FIGHT god damnit. They need to stop suckling at the corporate teat and fight for regular people. And centrist Dems don’t do that. Lefty Dems do.
appealing to “centrists” lost us 2/3 of the last 3 presidential elections in the electoral college.
Because Americans really like progressive policies but centrist dems and conservatives demonize them.
Medicare for All at a cheaper price than our current profitized healthcare system is absolutely a winning message at the voter level.
It’s us versus the 1%. You can win on that platform.
You just have to overcome some initial barriers, much like how Trump’s far right rhetoric did.
It’s because so many voters are anti-establishment. That’s why Trump lures those voters – he’s attacking the old structures, for better or worse (it’s worse). It just so happens that the further left candidates are anti-establishment. The majority of voters vote based on feels, not on thoughts. Moderate voters don’t inspire the masses of low information voters to turn out the way that a further left candidate can.
It’s more about getting democrats to mean what they say. Democratic principles have a logical conclusion that is popular and finding offramps from those to appease donors just makes them seem fake.
That’s the theory, anyway..
Because the left is the only party at this point who is committed to delivering real positive benefits to (non wealthy) people’s lives.
Reaching out to the Right is obviously a losing strategy, they’ll vote for their team regardless. Kamala campaigning with Liz Cheney did nothing to help her campaign.
I think people have bought the conservative’s narrative around Democrats and wokeness. Was trying to get student loan forgiveness too far left? I don’t see any evidence of how conservatives frame the Democratic Party or left-wing people in general being a reality.
Because a candidate advocating truly progressive policy positions is something that we have never tried. We have only pushed centrists that blow in the wind and stand for little. The public likes progressive policies when polled, just not the packaging.
They are addicted to losing elections and having something to be upset about 24/7. Absolute self sabotage.
I think the question requires some definition of "further left." Does it mean doubling down on cultural issues? Advocating stronger social welfare programs?
What I do think is probably true is that having some actual strong ideas that get people energized and sound like they could make people’s lives better rather than just a kind of mushy "we will protect institutions and be a less bad version of the status quo" would help to win elections.
Because the alternative is either to do nothing or to slide further right. The problem with doing nothing is that it will likely (if not already) lead to the full destruction of the US state apparatus through the sheer incompetence of Trump. Sliding further right is difficult because it puts them in opposition with their own, already long-alienated base, and it would also mean they would have to compete with Trump for right-wing voters, a branding and ideological challenge.
Because there are a LOT of people out there who are NOT voting because there are NOT candidates who represent their far left positions
Most liberals view moving left as “action”, and see doubling down on centrism as “inaction”.
This is largely because they are entirely correct. The party’s primary platform is that everything is perfect and nothing should ever be done to change anything.
Okay, that is a bit facetious.
But that’s the problem. The current party is seen as the party of the status quo, and unwilling to make the major moves necessary to actually pass anything resembling an agenda.That’s why people want them to move. It arguably doesn’t even have to be to the left, but staying still is death.
the failure of the democratic party is lack of interesting ideas, and relying on "reasonableness" and " steady hand on the wheel" to get voters. the party needs bold plans to win people over, but that’s not necessarily moving to the far left; though I can forgive people for thinking along those lines.
Because if you poll on individual left-leaning policies while avoiding certain terms, they’re really popular. As it turns out most people really do want cheap healthcare and social services and want kids in school and affordable college and low rents… as long as you don’t say the Manchurian Candidate trigger words.
Why do so many independents believe that going further right and turning into a 2000s-era neoconservative party is the best response? From what I’ve seen it’s all "We tried ensuring civil rights for trans people and migrants, but Republicans blocked it and called us slurs so I think it’s time we abandon those other people to focus more on what really matters; me and issues I care about"
I guess I’m curious what your vision of further left is. If you look at the crowds Bernie is pulling right now it should show you there is some draw there.
Because we have alienated our base and moved to the right year after year for 30 years and ot has done nothing for us.
what is further left? is there a specific policy or something? I don’t see that the democratic party’s core values have changed, so I need to ask what "going further left" means.
I think half-adding social welfare policies can be viewed as inefficient and just feeds the mentality that they don’t work. If we want to showcase that the farther left has any sort of validity to things like universal healthcare, we need to put something in place that has much more of a scope than Medicare/Medicaid. It seems like most argument against things like universal healthcare is “it’s just not possible/the left are idealists” etc. we need to prove that the policies work off the paper.
The modern Dem party, as it currently sits, is not very far left or very progressive. It is progressive and lefty, but only by the VERY right leaning standards of this country. In earnest the US doesn’t have a lefty or progressive party. It has a far right part and a moderate centrist party that does entertain a few slight left-leaning pet issues.
Now I don’t know whether or not YOU agree with that assessment, but to answer your question you need to understand that this is what it looks like to most liberal and progressive voters.
So, if it is true that the Dems are a moderate centrist party as is, then them moving further right would mean they would cease to be a liberal party entirely, they would just fully become a moderate right party. If they ceded ground on the very few issues where they are kinda a little bit lefty and progressive, then they would just be a milder flavor of Republican, and there would be no progressive party at all.
So! that basically answers your question. If where they are right now is not winning, and they need to pick up voters, what do they do? If they move right, then our one sorta kinda a little bit progressive lefty party ceases to exist, and just becomes a different wing of the right. Which means further left is the only way to go.
Bc liberals are sick of democrats being soft porn versions of republicans? We want to see policy that benefits the people vs continuous bending over to the wealthy and corporations?? We don’t have a progressive policy to speak of yet the dems continue to lose when they get into office then push policy that is far from what was promised on the campaign.
I think the push for Democrats to go further left isn’t about being ideologically pure—it’s about being strategically realistic in a political environment where the status quo is wildly unpopular.
Moderates keep reacting to losses by trying to pivot right, assuming that’ll win over swing voters. But a lot of voters aren’t swinging right because they’re conservatives—they’re swinging toward anyone who says they’ll shake up the system. Trump doesn’t win because he’s loved—he wins because he sells change. He says he’ll lower rent, bring back jobs, protect Social Security, drain the swamp. He lies about most of it, but people believe him because he sounds like he’s actually doing something. That’s the appeal of populism.
Democrats, on the other hand, keep offering “stability” and “normalcy”—which to a lot of people just sounds like “more of the same.” The moderate response to right-wing populism is often to water down bold policies so as not to offend centrists or conservatives—people who, frankly, will never vote for them anyway. That doesn’t inspire confidence. It makes them look weak and afraid of their own ideas.
This is why a lot of voters who supported Trump also said they would’ve voted for Bernie or liked AOC. It’s not about left vs. right—it’s about anti-establishment vs. establishment. Bernie had policies that actually aimed to do something for the working class. Medicare for All, canceling student debt, higher wages—these aren’t fringe ideas anymore. They’re popular, especially among young people and working-class voters. But moderates are still playing defense, and in doing so, they lose both the energy of the base and the trust of the disillusioned.
So when progressives say the party should move left, it’s not because they’re naive about America’s politics—it’s because they understand the only way to beat right-wing populism is with left-wing populism. Not centrism. Not incrementalism. Actual policy that improves people’s lives and breaks with the status quo.
And yeah, a lot of progressives are so fed up they’d rather sit out than keep voting for people who offer nothing but “at least we’re not Trump.” That strategy hasn’t done very well. How many times do we have to try it before we admit it doesn’t work?
After what shumer did. I will never vote for another moderate democrat so long as I live. Because apparently Moderates just want to let Trump win over and over.
All I know for sure is the "moderate Dems" aren’t doing jackshit right now to stop Trump or Musk.
Meanwhile the "far left" leaders are touring the country and mobilizing tens of thousands of people to stand up and oppose this fascist coup.
Unsurprisingly, the people standing up are gaining a lot of credibility and respect. People want to fight against fascism, not roll-over and get shipped off to a foreign Gulag.
In all seriousness, the elections in ’26 & ’28 will not matter unless we stop this coup.
Because the right is winning on populism which is hostile to the neoliberal status quo.
Running status quo candidates who refuse to fight against fascism is only good for capturing liberal votes who wouldn’t fight if you tried to put them on a train to a concentration camp.
You can’t pull those voters hostile to the status quo by trying to move slightly right and be Bush Sr. Republicans, that’s just more neoliberal economic politics with slightly less Pride flags.
Kamala Harris ran as a moderate trying to appeal across the isle and this election was a complete disaster on every level. Keep in mind, no matter what democrat was running I don’t think the state of affairs (economy, border, Gaza etc) were necessarily to democrats’ benefit, but somebody with a clear idea, pursuing change that would benefit the American people I personally believe would have been more successful than Kamala Harris. Democrats have to try something different. Hopefully with the right person and a solid admin, approval ratings will improve.
This isn’t just this election either. Hillary Clinton, in 2016, who also positioned as a relatively moderate candidate, was unsuccessful (although the email scandal + Bill Clinton’s legacy didn’t help either). While Joe Biden did win the election by a fairly substantial margin, I think this can largely be attributed to the Trump Admin’s disastrous handling of COVID and Joe Biden being a former Vice President of one of the most beloved presidents of the past 50 years.
I believed this in 2016 and I still wholeheartedly believe it now. If Bernie Sanders was nominated in 2016, he would have beaten Donald Trump.
Depends what you mean by "going further left."
If you’re talking about social values, a big part of the reason is that the left’s position on those issues is primarily one of morality, not political pragmatism. Trans issues are currently the major hot-button, and quite straightforwardly, my own personal position of complete and total support for trans people is absolutely non-negotiable and immune to popularity considerations. I don’t care where it is on the left-vs-right spectrum, those who are willing to throw trans people under the bus because they’re afraid it hurts them in the polls are not people I want representing me. The Republican position of "hurt trans people in every way we think we can get away with" is evil, anyone supporting it is evil, and anyone not actively fighting it is at least complicit in evil.
On other issues, it’s mostly not a question of where they stand on policy positions as, having no actual direct power in Washington right now, their policy positions aren’t largely relevant. It’s their failure to act as an opposition party against Trump, who is (correctly) seen not as a politician but as an arsonist who is actively and aggressively destroying the country and trying to dismantle our democracy. They’re trying to have a policy discussion with someone who’s dousing the house in gasoline and pulling out a matchbook. It’s fucking insanity, and that’s what drives the low popularity ratings.
Define what you mean by "further left"
Isn`t it mainly economically, ie better social safety net policies?
One reason maybe be because Obama was wildly popular running as a progressive candidate and lost favorability as he moved more moderate. Then each candidate since then has gone more and more moderate
The Democratic Party needs to start leading, not reacting to public opinion. The Democratic Party has gotten the reputation of being fake, and for good reason.
If you truly have a real strong vision for how to lead the country, you should share it. You shouldn’t water it down or introduce logically inconsistent views in order to appease a worldview that will never align with yours. That signals to voters that you don’t seem to actually believe in what you are saying, and if you become shy at mere mention of universal healthcare, they will forever dismiss it as a radical policy. If the Democrats shift right, voters will see through it as a calculated political move. If the Democrats shift left, that might actually provide credibility of what the Democrats have been saying, that we need to take serious action against the oligarchy and corruption taking root in our country.
Fox News will call Democrats far left until they are all down kissing Trump’s shoes. I mean, look at Trump. Despite all his lies, voters have confidence in his vision because he makes it seem like he genuinely believes it. Regardless of which direction they shift, democrats ought to portray that same bold confidence.
Democrats are unpopular because their push to become more ‘center’ has failed miserably for the people they purport to support. Bill Clinton was a moderate. Obama was a moderate. Biden actively pursued the center. They were all able to make bipartisan deals with republicans (which typically screwed the middle class) because of it. It shifted the democrats far right. Currently, the ‘democratic party’ is farther right than Ronald Reagan ever was.
None of that helped democratic popularity. Democrats let unions decay over the last 50 years. They let the rich buy congress and the courts. They let the various reforms of the 60s get murdered with a thousand cuts. They let the republicans rig the tax code to favor rich people, who then favored republicans alone with huge contributions, thus buying the government and getting more reforms. Now we have DOGE ripping holes in the New Deal. This is the long game that William F Buckley dreamt up in the 1950s. It actually worked. We are nearly a feudal system again. My god, tariffs? WTaF? Don’t they remember what Smoot-Hawley did?
On the other hand, Bernie Sanders is filling stadiums right now. I don’t believe it’s his actual message that is so appealing. It’s the fact that Bernie isn’t going to bend over for the goddam billionaires and their lickspittle republicans at every opportunity, like the clown cart of democratic presidents have done since, well, Johnson. He is going to stand up for the people. That’s what Trump keeps promising (actually, lying about.) It makes people listen when you stand up for something, anything.
I don’t think it’s "liberals" who really want democrats to go further left, it’s people who are further left who want to go further left. They have been saying this for decades and they will continue saying it (if they’re allowed to) for decades to come. Most people see everyone else as having the same or similar views to their own, so they believe that catering to their own opinions is going to better align with the electorate at large.
I think if they were serious about achieving their political goals, they would pursue the boiling frog strategy that MAGA has embraced. Look at how many insane things have been normalized in the past 9 years of Trump and imagine what could be achieved if people farther left than the current democrats would be okay with ratcheting things up over time rather than purity testing their way into irrelevance.
Because we want healthcare. Not "our country needs medicare for all, so we’re going to beat around the bush during election years and then scratch our balls for the duration that we are in office". We want a unified, genuine stance.
Because propping up Liz Cheney at campaign rallies is retarded.
Because they saw the GOP go further and further to the right and assume that if the GOP can pander to their base and still win, obviously the Dems can too
Its basically cargo cult politics, based on the cope assumption that things must be fair and balanced (the reality is that the GOP can do it but we just can’t)
Going right sure as hell didn’t help.
It’s because the status quo is pretty bad for young voters, and these are notoriously the most fickle and least reliable voters. The political theory is that a more leftist/populist economic agenda which would help these voters might inspire them to get off their asses and vote, but I have my doubts because they don’t get off their asses to support Sanders in the primary and because most voters are very low information.
You could also argue that a more populist agenda would alienate moderate voters in swing states, so it’s a bit of a catch 22: do you give up moderate voters to have a better chance of enticing a larger number of less reliable younger voters or do you try to win with the existing coalition? For better or worse recent dem politicians have chosen the latter and it’s hard for me to blame them tbh
Because FDR won fucking LANDSLIDES off of Social Welfare and no Liberal has recreated any wins like that.
Liberals naturally align with Republicans fiscally and those policies both endorse hurts the average person, only slowly, and it’s been happening since Neoliberalism became the norm in the 70s/ 80s.
The system needs change, and Democrats have to stop touting corporations. Sorry but people genuinely like Bernie and AOC because they endorse change and fight for it.
What the fuck are Schumer and Jeffries doing?
The entire problem is that is NOT a left right issue. It is an up and down issue.
Left right is not applicable nobody can even define either…the divide is not liberal conservative…it is what is your tax bracket…do you take a shower before or after work…the swells vs. the poors. and until the Dems stop trying to be the GOP lite…it won’t change.
Democrats are not left. That’s their problem. They’re Republican light. Most of our economic problems are because Democrats don’t fight for shit, and they let Republicans pass legislation that fucks over workers. Republicans are cheering on Trump for stopping what Republicans have been pushing for decades. Outsourcing and sending jobs overseas is Republican shit. NAFTA was Reagan’s crap from 1979. Bush signed it, every Republican voted for it, Clinton was a work across the aisle guy, so he signed it. All the fucked up shit Clinton passed was right wing legislation that screws over workers. You fall for the propaganda. Look at the legislation. The only shit Democrats are allowed to pass is culture war crap the Republicans tell you to get mad about so you won’t pay attention while they pick your pocket. Now you have 13 billionaires in billionaires Trump’s cabinet, more billionaires in the first row of his inauguration funding him, and you think they’re going to be working for you?
Because those policies are popular. People aren’t as right wing as Dems seem to think. We need the left party to differentiate themselves from the Republicans. If you believe in right wing values, why vote for the Democrats who are running as moderate conservatives? They need a counter-narrative.
Because that’s where the policies that make people want to vote liberal are…..
Most people don’t sgree
Left leaning liberals do because they want everything or nothing.
No idea. I thought the data was very clear that far left, especially identity left issues are a clear loser. I don’t want to go further left that’s for sure.
I think they are just democrats who spend to much time in online echo chambers where people are more left so they think that’s normal.
i don’t think liberals actually believe this. its like they memory holed the election that just happened where trump attacked harris for her the far left stances she took during the 2020 primary. if anything we need a younger biden, like mayor pete
What would it actually look like if Democrats shifted to the right to be ‘more centrist’? Would that mean cutting Social Security, flattening the tax code, slashing food stamps and Medicaid, or restricting labor rights? I’m genuinely curious, what would a moderate shift look like that isn’t just part of a Republican outrage narrative? The problem isn’t that people don’t like leftist ideas. The problem is Republicans have shaped the narrative on what leftist ideas actually are.
I mean, think about who both Democrats and Republicans actually despise. It’s not people like Bernie Sanders. Despite the constant ‘evil socialist’ narrative, a lot of people on the right still respect that he has conviction, speaks honestly, and has a backbone. The real frustration is with people like Chuck Schumer. Democrats that are performative, weak, offering a watered-down Republican-lite alternative. No one respects that. Why would anyone vote for the watered down version when they can just have the Republican Party? And despite all the rugged individualism conservatives preach, most people still rely on social safety nets daily. They might not like the label, but they know they need them. Think about the disconnect between how Republican legislatures talk about Social Security and how their base talks about Social Security.
I’m not sure that is the accurate representation. I think that those liberals who are already further left are dissatisfied with the Democratic leadership
Also, "further left" can be pretty vague. I think infighting on the left only helps Republicans, though, which might be what you’re getting at.
It depends on what you mean by "left". I don’t think my views are that far left, but some people would. I don’t think it would be good to move left in some ways, but just with the economy a little.
The best reason is because we hear this same crap every time and always move right, instead. That hasn’t worked out so well and now we’re having to defend against fascism. I think it’s related. Compared to other recent Presidents, Biden did move us left a little and the results were good, but it wasn’t enough.
The big problem with these questions is that we all have different opinions on what that means. You can take two people who want the same things, but one will say we need to move to the center, while the other will say we need to move left. The only thing they’ll share in common is who represents the left.
Change is necessary, but moving to the center is settling for more of the same. It’s how we got here.
Political inclinations find a deeper logical substantiation sometimes when you do a little pursuit to one or another ideological extent, and whether that logic (in idealogical) applies with greater sincerity or rationale is not necessarily subject to what I’m saying – to answer the question you’re asking ideological inclinations find greater substantiation further in what can be understood as political culture.
Because extremists don’t compromise. It’s their way or the highway.
Being economically left is better for working people. Simple as that.
Because they themselves want the party to go further left and they just assume most people also want the (good) things they want.
A similar thing happens with Republicans, where they believe that everyone else just obviously agrees with them and wants what they want, because Jesus and common sense. Except instead, for people on the left, it tends to be because of facts (about their preferred policies) and compassion.
Because it’s an online bubble and they don’t understand that non-republicans have a variety of different views holding the coalition together.
Conservatives outnumber every other group in this country. However if non-conservatives band together, they are over twice as big of a group.
Because centrism isn’t really winning elections.
Be specific when you say further left. What issues and what positions?
Because the actual problem that drives MAGA discomfort is a problem that can only be addressed by progressive policies. They have been manipulated by propaganda and distracted by culture wars, but in reality their main issue is economic inequality.
Which is precisely Warren, Bernie, and AOC’s political platform.
People want radical change, a candidate that is anti establishment, I truly think people only voted for Trump is just to piss off some elite (even though Elon is part of that group)
I’m wiling to fucking vote Bernie my guy, yes I’m a conservative dem, but as long they have a strong immigration, moderate gun laws, I’m good. Run a populist already and don’t listen to republicans.
Who are the best-poling Dems right now?
It’s ridiculous to assume that basic programs that fund and help people that are typically forgotten in society are deemed “dem” policies. It helps everyone on all sides so it’s not necessarily something that affects just lefties but everyone. Do research into what programs being cut and department overhauls mean for those involved because the scope is so much larger. I cannot say that anything less than fascism is here and people are blinded by the media to see HOW FAR BACK we are regressing.
They went right and lost. The last time people voted FOR the dem and not to stop a Republican was Obama when was acting like a populist.
Because many people are taking the fact that Harris lost due to external reasons as justification that their particular perspective is the one needed to win. Harris lost due to inflation and unforgivable media failure, a dramatic shift left or right (both are advocated) will likely lose votes rather than improve things. The Left has also been frustratingly resistant to giving Biden credit for his incredible list of accomplishments (including many progressive priorities that seemed impossible to pass). That messaging dramatically undersold Harris as a liberal candidate who progressives could genuinely get behind regardless of who she was running against.
Probably because Bernie and AOC are actually rallying people
I think people need to abandon the left/right dichotomy and understand that voters want somebody that’ll fight for the little guy economically and go after the wealthy.
They don’t want endless identity politics but they also can’t stand rich people.
Only one party has addressed either of those things and it’s the Republicans going after identity politics.
Liberals, in order to protect themselves and those they care about, have to make the super rich into enemy number one.
Otherwise? Conservatives are going to point the finger at trans people, migrants, liberals, and anyone that can distract from the class problems.
Where on the spectrum are most democrats that see their approval ratings going lower? Theres your answer.
Wishful thinking.
I don’t know that they are necessarily wrong, but I do think it’s based more on what they want to be than them caring what reality is.
Because shifting to the centre lost us the White House and the Senate and handed Trump the popular vote…?
First, in a big tent ‘party’ like the Dems or the left as a whole, there is a whole lot of talking past each other. We’re all out here trying to do our best and not realizing how much we would agree if it wasn’t so hard to figure out what’s going on all the damn time. That being said.
The ‘left’ which is represented by the Sheumer, Pelosi, Jeffries, etc group in Congress can’t go much further right when it comes to many things. Social policies were pretty divided, but when it comes to tax cuts, those guys seem to always find a way to vote to keep themselves rich.
The voters, on both the left and right, want working class policies. At the moment, that’s a left wing voter policy and a right wing voter policy. Some left wing politicians, almost always zero right wing politicians.
When left wing politicians move right, even on social issues, it’s seen by voters as doing nothing different than what they already do, nothing. Right wing politicians aren’t moving right, they’re just out there doin shit. Breaking stuff, moving stuff, kickin stuff. They’re DOING SOMETHING. For now it’s not good stuff but at least it’s something so they’re holding onto a lot of support despite damages. The left is mostly sitting around saying there’s nothing they can do, even when they have power.
We don’t need the politicians to move left or right. We need them to move up and down. Populist and non populist scales. The people, the ones who bleed to make our nation work, need help and they’re not getting it. There’s no help from the leaders on the left. So people looked right and saw people doin shit and took the risk.
As long as the right is doin something, and the left is bragging about their perfect campaign, needing to return to norms, curled up in a fetal position over the parliamentarian, capitulating to every demand of the opposition and not getting anything in return, people aren’t going to keep showing up for them.
You can believe the polls – The Left is on Fire 🔥- They have the Energy … just wait until 2026
This is the reason why: https://youtu.be/epu6cc0_SD4?si=X5Fy4N0DFQMVu2Yz
I don’t think Americans will think much of Democrats being Republican Lite. Maybe the Democrats should offer a more vigorous alternative.
What a stupid question. "Liberals" have never and will never want the Democrats to move "further to the left" in any meaningful sense, and politics cannot be reduced to a one dimensional spectrum, so there is no one way to move "further to the left". Knuckle-dragging right wingers thought Hillary was going "far-left" when she attacked Sanders with her fucking bizarre argument that "breaking up the big banks won’t end racism", when in fact she was doing the opposite.
In a country where more people than at any point in living memory are living paycheque to paycheque and barely scraping by, moving to the left is the only genuinely viable strategy. But "liberals" seem to think the way forward is to make the Democratic Party indistinguishable from the Bush II era Republicans on economic and foreign policy issues. As if Americans don’t want healthcare, education, higher wages and debt relief, they want an even more grotesquely bloated military, and unconditional financial support to Israel.
Because polls show that moving to leftist policies is what they want, by like 75+%. Republicans applauded when they got Covid cash, because they need help surviving, yet they bash “socialism” as giving money to people who don’t deserve it. They just don’t realize that when the fight against socialism, instead of their taxes going to help them, billionaires gladly take that money they don’t need.
I think the basic problem is that left-wing policies – at least when described using small words – are very unpopular with the low-information voters Dems need to persuade in order to win, but the outcomes of the centre-right policies that they choose to run on instead are even more unpopular.
Without a massive redistribution of wealth and incomes toward the poor and middle class, life can only get materially harder and harder for ordinary Americans. But if you say "let’s massively redistribute wealth and incomes toward poor and middle class Americans" then they hear you saying "I’m a communist" and vote against you. And the solutions Republicans offer are even worse and even more "overvalued" by the public compared to their truth-value. "Your life is hard because of evil Mexicans and criminal black people. If we just deport them all back south of the border and lock up the ones we can’t deport, you’ll be able to afford eggs again!". It’s completely false, an economic fantasia, but lots of people are very excited to hear it, to believe it, and to vote for it.
What can we do? If you campaign on the policies that might meaningfully help people, you lose the election. If you promise neoliberalism with some compassion at the margins, and enact it in office, people feel furious that nothing really changed apart from various things continuing to get worse. There may be a way through this double-bind, and it’s incumbent on us to try to find it, but it’s not easy or obvious what it is.
In general, though, I’d say, at a higher strategic level; when you’re losing the war, you have to take big swings. You have to try to make something happen, to change the environment, to get on track for an outside chance at victory. If you content yourself with losing each battle by a controlled margin and saying, well, we limited the damage, we slowed things down, we avoided the worst… what hope can you have of winning? What kind of morale do you expect from your troops if that is the "cause" you’re asking them to fight for? Trying to slow things down and looking around and waiting for "something to turn up" is how we got to where we are now. We have to face up to the reality that nobody else is coming to the rescue.
Well, when most people say that they’re not talking about dismatling Capitalism or anything like. I am, but that’s because I’m a socialist. What people who aren’t me generally mean is stuff like making sure kids are feed while at school and their teachers have adequate funding to teach them. Or that rent prices have gone insane and are a clear example of either price gouging or private corporations buying up houses and apartment buildings not even to rent them but as long term investment strategies and that’s kind of fucked given that we have people literally living on the street. Or how we pay the most money for the worst healthcare outcomes because we have an entire industry based on being useless middlemen who mainly try to stop doctors from being able to prescribe things because it’s more profitable if the insurance companies don’t have to actually for things like meds or surgeries.
We’ve somehow turned basic, kindergarten level morality into political issues. And that sucks and we should maybe stop doing that.
I’ve come around to the opinion that policies don’t actually matter. For left or right. The centrist Democrats hem and haw, they obfuscate, they split hairs.
They are perceived as weak by voters.
The left speaks clearly.
The left is angry.
The left comes across as far more authentic .
It’s the authenticity.
How is it possible that there were so many people who like both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders at the same time?
It’s because of the style.
That is how they got such low ratings in the first place lol
Left represents populist views and change which is what ppl want. Moderates want to run in place.
Honest question: if so many on the left hate Democrats, hate the status quo, and keep voting for third parties to show their displeasure, why don’t they form their own Party? A far-left third party seems to be the answer, doesn’t it?
What democrats really need is a genuine ideological stance and someone brave enough to not flip flop on it. Democrats just don’t have an identity. Politicians are either corrupt corporate shills, or technocrats that don’t offer any significant change to the average American. During the campaign, Harris just seemed insincere and used out-dated techniques to sway the electorate like celebrity endorsements and repeating the same speech over and over, Trump is a criminal and a liar but his speeches are organic, promised mountains and he’s just a funny guy but most importantly, his stances are crystal clear and his promises are easy to understand, which, despite all the obvious lies and fake news, exudes more truthfulness and authenticity. You can find that the further left you go among democrats with people like AOC or Bernie.
All the happiest countries in the world are much more left than centerist dems