[LotR] Where do things like Vanilla, Tea, Potatoes and Coffee come from?

r/

Middle-Earth is a kind of mytho-historical equivalent to Europe, i.e. not a real history but still an analogue, culturally and climatically speaking. So where do these exotic plants come from?

I suppose it might be possible that the ancient kingdoms of Men or Elves (Numenor, etc) practiced sea trade and imported these things from distant lands, or that they made their way to Middle-Earth from the east and the south in seed form.

Did Tolkien ever write anything concerning this?

Comments

  1. AutoModerator Avatar

    Reminders for Commenters:

    • All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If “watsonian” or “doylist” is new to you, please review the full rules here.

    • No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to permanent ban on first offense.

    • We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world.

    • Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction.

    I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

  2. ConfusedHaberdasher Avatar

    The land now known as the ‘Americas’ was then known as Aman, or Valinor, the home of the Valar and those Elves they brought there with them, or Calaquendi.

    When Numenor sunk, the Valar and Calaquendi left the physical world and entered the spiritual, only accessible by the Straight Path, but the physical landmass remained.

    In other words, the Noldor likely brought these with them when they left Aman.

  3. justsomeguy_youknow Avatar

    Within the narrative Middle Earth is an (alleged) historical account. It takes place in an ancient age thousands of years ago when there was magic in the world, which has faded away by modern day. All the Middle Earth writings out there are (within the narrative of the universe) ancient texts compiled, translated, and published by Tolkien in modern day

    There may be a Tolkien head in here who can pull up actual writings on that thing from some obscure writing, because there are a lot of writings to pull from. My guess is that it’s possible those things came to the lands of Middle Earth by trade, as you mentioned, or perhaps some version of them grew in those lands naturally, and were lost to time before being reintroduced in the current Age. It’s also possible that Tolkien, as the translator, substituted modern analogues at his discretion to make his published works more digestible to contemporary audiences

  4. aRabidGerbil Avatar

    The Númenorians and Teleri were both legendarily good sailors, so I’d assume they brought it over

  5. in_a_dress Avatar

    I don’t know that there is any specific mentions on the origins of these specific plants.

    Tobacco is referenced as being discovered by hobbits who live in Middle Earth. It seems likely to me that other plants may have similar origins that don’t follow real life histories.

  6. Herpinheim Avatar

    So part of translating a book for audiences who don’t speak the native language or know the native culture of said book, is the process of localization. Localization is when you change names of places, common sayings, and common items to be more understandable yo the new audience’s culture.

    The Red Book of Westmarch was translated by Tolkien and he localized much of the book as well. Meriadoc “Merry” Brandywine’s name, for instance, would literally translate to Kalimac “Kali” Brandagamba. Kalimac means happy or joyful, so Tolkien changed it to Meriadoc to better reflect how English speakers would hear and associate his name similarly as Merry’s contemporaries would. The same is true for things like Tea, tobacco, potatoes, etc in that they are not literally tea, tobacco, and potatoes but are instead things contextually similar to tea, tobacco, and potatoes.

  7. tehKrakken55 Avatar

    They came from the West with the Numenorians and Elves.

    Tobacco is mentioned specifically as being brought over by them, and presumably potatoes and tomatoes were too.

    As far as plants that are non-native AND unable to be grown in Middle-earth, I can’t actually recall them being mentioned. Tea sure, but I don’t think they have vanilla or coffee.

  8. YairJ Avatar

    Maybe it’s more a question of why they went extinct in some places and not others.

  9. kemick Avatar

    Don’t expect analogs. The Valar shaped the world and filled it with stuff. Yavanna devised the various plants and spread them through Middle-earth. She created the Ents to care for them. The sun and moon were crafted from the last fruits of the Two Trees she created in Aman. Continents and seas and mountains and valleys were made by the Valar. The world wasn’t even round until Numenor’s destruction in the late Second Age.

    Trade existed. The first White Tree of Gondor was descended from the White Tree of Numenor which itself was brought as a gift from Aman. Numenor became a large maritime empire that colonized Middle-earth in the Second Age to extract resources. They explored the entire world. They built up Minas Tirith, Umbar, and Pelargir. The common speech of Middle-earth is descended from the Numenorean language.

    Trade still existed in the Third Age though Sauron would increasingly control the east and south and imported large amounts of tribute from them. The High Pass over the mountains near Rivendell was a toll road. Dale was a trading hub until Erebor was occupied by Smaug. Gondor often fought against Umbar whose pirates would pillage ships and settlements up and down the west coast.

  10. karizake Avatar

    Much like dragons, the shapes of the world decided to create some nonsense plants.