Not every cancer patient deserves a miracle.

r/

I am a doctor who takes care of cancer patients. A lot of my patients either already have or turn to religion after their cancer diagnosis – they approach death largely (in my experience) in two different ways: the first say “I am going to be with God now- I have fought this cancer hard but  I have lived a good life and this is God’s will.”  These patients die peacefully- surrounded by family and friends on their own terms. 

The others: “God will give me a miracle.” They will be actively dying in a hospital bed, and any intervention would be futile — and I mean ANY.. they are on death’s door- I have spent HOURS preparing them for this moment, we have exhausted EVERY avenue,.. but still they say “God will find a way, God will give me a miracle.” They leave this world kicking and screaming- traumatizing their family and the people around them, leaving behind a long trail of devastation, medical bills and financial confusion because they didn’t think about getting their affairs in order in advance (even when being told to).

Last week I had a patient and his family who had a stage IV cancer. Halfway through his initial treatment he decided to stop for no reason, and didn’t come back. Six months later he came back with widely metastatic disease, weak, unable to eat, expecting a miracle from God. Well- if God exists- then God gave you that miracle in the form of upfront cancer treatment that could have significantly prolonged your life- even with a stage IV diagnosis.  And you ignored the call. In fact, the whole family did, and now are blaming the medical system for not being able to treat him because he is just too sick. 

Less than 100 years ago there was NO treatment for the disease you have, and now we have many lines of therapy that can prolong your life… but no.. that is not miracle enough. Somehow God giving us the science to understand cancer and help treat it for many people is just not miracle enough. God needs to give you your own miracle to treat only your cancer because for some reason you deserve that attention? No.. absolutely not. What makes you so deserving? Have you live an exemplary life in the service of others? Have you performed miracles for others?  Did you follow the exact teachings of the Bible (if that is your book of choice)? By what moral code did you live so perfectly that you now expect God to focus a miracle on you? Have you helped many hundreds of people? Have you helped even a few? I do not know. It does not matter. A miracle was offered to you… and you blew it. 

There is only one group of people in my mind that truly deserve miracles- innocent children. . The rest of us? We live in too much sin. 

Comments

  1. Electrical_Pin_8895 Avatar

    My brother died of bowel cancer at 18, he was the strongest person I will ever know. My mum went God crazy and had priests around and everything and he refused to be baptised. He knew it wouldn’t change anything and I don’t think any 18 year old can be at peace with dying, but it was like he knew it would be okay. Now I hate religion people use it in a way that in this century doesn’t make sense. We have all the science to help illness and refusing it or waiting for a “miracle” is only hurting yourself and others. It’s been 8 years since he passed I was 13 when he did. And I will forever hold death in my heart as a part of life if anyone deserved a miracle it was him and it didn’t happen so the truth is shit hurts but just make the most of recourses and love that you have. Fuck miracles, just live real life.

  2. Spirited-Water1368 Avatar

    Just another reason for me to despise religion.

  3. ViktorMakhachev Avatar

    I mean who are you to judge these people for 1 ? And another thing why are you hating on the people who just stop their treatments because they’re just prolonging the inevitable?

  4. Soonhun Avatar

    I truly do not understand the free pass people give to children. At least the cynical people like OP who think adults, by default, live in too much sin. As I understand it, from a cynical perspective, children who survive will just become adults who, in their perspective, will live in too much sin. So what makes them special? I have never understood it. I love children, but I love adults, too.

  5. Lopsided_Speaker_553 Avatar

    You might be a doctor, but I’m a cancer survivor.

    I don’t live in sin. What is this warped view of the world where random somebodies are telling everyone they’re living in sin?

    Maybe you think that because I don’t believe in your god? Anyway, glad you got this off your chest.

    But please. Do better next time and don’t disparage all the people who are not like you.

  6. bonnydoe Avatar

    ‘we live in too much sin’

    In which country do you live/practice?
    I never heard of anyone turning to religion after their cancer diagnosis.

  7. spooks112 Avatar

    I feel like yall are missing the point of the post; they’re saying that if your “God” created everything, that includes chemo/radiation/medical treatment/the staff treating you. So listen to your clinicians and trust science for treatment/prognosis. Don’t hope to God something will miraculously change. Sometimes reality is scary and people turn to religion as a coping mechanism in terminal situations, but there’s a need for realism as well.

    ETA: I genuinely don’t understand how people are interpreting this post as you being a neglectful/callous doctor. No one really knows how you are but I’m assuming if you’re on this forum, you know, getting it off your chest, you don’t act like this on the job. It’s your job to help people and you took the hippocratic oath to do so to the best of your ability (esp if you are an oncologist jfc). Of course it’s frustrating when you see patients deny intervention and come back regretful, regardless of their religion. Cancer sucks, people suck. It sucks seeing people have cancer and suffer.

  8. millyfoo Avatar

    Are you saying that people are not…. dying correctly? That the fact that they are not accepting their imminent doom is some sort of moral or logical failing? I don’t think we can expect rationality at the face of death.

  9. oinktraumatophobia Avatar

    Have you ever asked them: if you truly believe in God, why are you expecting your God to keep you here, and why are you so reluctant to enter his home?

  10. Material-Bowl7815 Avatar

    I feel like you’re a bad doctor. Everyone deserves to live. I’m glad you at least care for kids, but damn man. You shouldn’t hold so much resentment for people being well…people? If you want to think they are stupid, okay I guess? But that shouldn’t stop you from trying to empathize with them. I don’t understand jaded doctors like you. Don’t you understand what you’re getting into when you start to study? People are dumb, people are hopeful, people aren’t perfect, that’s what makes us all so wonderful. You shouldn’t hold hope against people, no matter how dumb you think it is. People may make bad choices in your eyes, but when they stand in front of you you shouldn’t judge them, especially not you, a doctor, meant to help them. You should do your job, and help them.

  11. LordAxalon110 Avatar

    This just kinda feels like an excuse to shit on religion from the perspective of people doing idiotic and dumb things while dealing with they’re life coming to an end.

    I mean, you do you mate but I’d seek therapy so you can deal with the obvious trauma your dumping here.

  12. plantsandpizza Avatar

    I always find it weird when people think god will spare them when so many good amazing deserving people have not received such miracles. Or even saying god made all these good things happen for me. What about the ones who are suffering? Is that also the lords work? What makes you so special to receive this miracle and others to be forgotten? Typical religious entitlement

  13. weirdhandler Avatar

    I was with you to a point until you started talking about who deserves a miracle, living in sin etc.

    I can see that it would be far easier on those around them, if people could be accepting of death and have their affairs in order, but I also think wanting everyone to be logical in the face of death is too much to expect. Most people aren’t logical about anything.

  14. noggggin Avatar

    I’m 100% with you. If god is real then 1. He gave you the disease. 2. He allowed for scientific discovery in disease control and that is your “miracle”. 3. If you’re dying, you have no right to blame those helping you while praying to a made up individual who condemned you to begin with.
    There is no logic in religion and I feel like that’s why we science brains struggle to wrap our heads around why certain people believe what they do. I think it’s because they struggle to relinquish control, thinking that it’s all ok in the hands of god, without that it feels very lonely and they can’t cope with that.

  15. pisces_princess- Avatar

    Wow, this is a viewpoint I am on board with. I’m not religious (and have a lot of religious trauma from childhood), but I am spiritual I guess you could call it.

    Religion shifts in essence when faith turns into expectation—when people begin to see the divine not as a source of guidance, but as a personal miracle dispenser.

  16. mamanova1982 Avatar

    When I get cancer (it’s what kills everyone in my family), I’ll be the one to not find religion. Fairy tales can’t cure cancer.

  17. SheSends Avatar

    As an Operatimg Room nurse, I feel you, doc. Too many times I’ve seen families and patients want everything and anything just to prolong a death and torture themselves or a loved one (and having us dish out that torture) instead of being compassionate and empathetic to them(selves) and allowing them(selves) to leave this world with a good death at home or surrounded by loved ones… and instead wind up dying around strangers with tubes and machines hooked up to every orifice, weeping fluids from everywhere, and in pain from the futile last ditch surgeries they forced upon them(selves).

    I understand the love we have for each other, but sometimes that means knowing when to stop and listening to advice instead of letting emotions pick for us.

    I’ve seen cancer patients the same, except with crystals and home remedies (much less religion here)… they stay home until they can’t manage the disease process anymore, then come looking for medicine when their crystals and remedies don’t work, and it’s always too late. I’ve seen too many Ex Laps turn into open close procedures where someone now has to die with a painful large incision covering just about their whole abdomen instead of just letting them die peacefully because the family or patient wants this… the time was months ago if we were going to be able to help…

    It’s just so frustrating to watch people do it to themselves, and I feel myself losing my empathy and compassion for humans a little bit each time I witness it. Everyone wants to be saved, but not everyone wants to put in the work to come to terms with their diagnosis, take their medications, or do the treatment(s)…

    I just want to let you know that even if the people, families, and general public whom you try to help don’t or won’t understand… your coworkers do.

  18. bugcatche Avatar

    Hey doctor, I see you. You’re getting some harsh replies here but they just don’t get it. Forgive me if I’m wrong but I don’t think this is about religion at all. It’s about the heartbreak of watching people die horrifically because they won’t listen to the doctors telling them it’s coming. Truth is no one is special. Death comes for us all no matter how much you fight it, but it’ll be kinder if you welcome it when it’s time.

    I’m sorry it’s been hard lately. Look after yourself.

  19. Kelvininin Avatar

    Sin, gods, miracles, all human constructs. If you are implying people are sinners based on age alone you are in the wrong profession. Keep that shit to whatever BS faith based institution you partake, let science, evidence, fact take care of the rest. If you can’t do that, consider a new career path.

  20. Sam_Spade68 Avatar

    God doesn’t exist. But saying people don’t deserve miracles is malicious nonsense. Sin is an invention of religions to try and control people.

  21. ultra_phoenix Avatar

    sometimes people subconsciously think they’re too special

  22. I_likem_asstastic Avatar

    It’s funny how God never heals amputees, don’t you think?

  23. Incognito0925 Avatar

    Content warning: wounds and infestations

    There is a show on Netflix about a German pair of twins, one of which got cancer. The show focuses heavily on the religion of the twins and their friends and how they trust God to cure this young guy. At one point, the friends are all on a holiday and one of the girls had to pick live maggots from the tumor in the guys back (lung cancer). Everything was an open wound and she had to go through there with a pair of tweezers. The guy died in the hospital surrounded by his kumbaya-singing friends.

    I was absolutely appalled to learn, after watching the show, that he had refused treatment and opted to “pray for a miracle” instead. Netflix didn’t mention that, the show didn’t mention that. Netflix should be cancelled for showing something like that. They made it look like there was no treatment available for him and he absolutely needed to trust in God. No, he was just a brain-washed fool. They made it look like “this is what cancer does to you” when in reality he suffered so much with this big open wound because he had refused treatment.

  24. eshatoa Avatar

    You’re a doctor, do your job and stop passing morality judgements on people.

  25. iTeachClassics Avatar

    As a Christian I have recognized that a lot of other believers refuse to understand one simple thing. God’s miracles don’t need to be supernatural and many times they are not.

    Most of the time the miracle is the opportunity to be attended by a professional in an era when the science is so advanced that your illness can be cured.

    Why would God go out of his way to intervene supernaturally (although I believe He could) when the cure is already available through existing methods?

    I can’t but think of the story of the man who died because of a flood because even though three boats went to his rescue he denied the help because “God will save me”. Once in heaven he asked God why didn’t he saved him and God replied: “What are you talking about? I sent three boats!”

    EDIT: typos

  26. thingsonmymind Avatar

    This reminds me of that story of the drowning man (will paste the story below). I’m not a Christian anymore but used to be and we were taught this story in church as a way to remind us that miracles aren’t necessarily supernatural events and angels, sunshine and trumpets shining from the sky. Sometimes it’s the right person in the right place at the right time. Or as you said – living in a time where we have the medical knowledge and technology to slow down cancer and also discovering it early enough to actually treat it.

    You’re absolutely right – sometimes when the life line is dangling in front of you you’ve got to be the one to grasp it. Can’t expect god to glue the life line to your hand.

    The drowning man:

    A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

    Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”

    The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”

    So the rowboat went on.

    Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.”

    To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

    So the motorboat went on.

    Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.”

    To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

    So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

    Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!”

    To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”

  27. T1nyJazzHands Avatar

    None of us really know how we’ll respond to something like that until it happens to us. Fear of imminent death is the ultimate human fear. It’s probably the most natural, instinctual and pervasive fear one can have. That kind of threat can have you acting wildly illogical. Humans don’t even do well when faced with the death of others. People go off the rails when grieving all the time.

    Is it extremely frustrating to watch people exacerbate their own suffering and/or the suffering of others in the process? Yeah absolutely. It’s utterly devastating. But IMO, it’s also an extremely common response. For some the idea of death is so overwhelming they can’t even process it as reality. Extreme avoidance/denial of medical reality kills people daily.

    Moreover, to be in a position where you’re able to trust and effectively engage with the medical system is a privilege. It requires the education and intelligence to understand your situation, the knowledge and confidence to navigate the system itself, as well as a history of positive interactions with warm, communicative, and competent healthcare staff. This isn’t to mention any of the very real practical barriers to help-seeking such as finances, social pressure, and cultural norms.

    Alls to say, I give the people actually experiencing the terminal illness some grace. They’re extremely vulnerable, panicking, and desperate. Even if it doesn’t look like it and their efforts make no sense, they are just trying to survive.

    HOWEVER, I direct all the judgement in the world to those quacks who try to take advantage of people in this vulnerable state. Founders of those wellness cults, prosperity churches and the like can all rot in hell.

  28. raftsa Avatar

    I always think of one of my bosses describing childhood leukemias

    When he was a medical student there was nothing

    Kid gets diagnosed, they die within a few weeks

    Prednisone was licensed in 1955

    Live a bit longer

    Cyclophosphamide 1958

    Live a bit longer

    Vincristine 1963

    Some survive

    Etoposide 1983

    More survive

    The miracle is that there is effective treatment much of the time.

    It’s a miracle for humanity – not a miracle for the individual.

  29. MauroLopes Avatar

    There’s a very famous case in my country Brazil where it happened what you described: one of Pelé’s daughter, Sandra Arantes do Nascimento. She abandoned her cancer treatment certain that God would perform a “miracle”. What I found the most disgusting was that her church’s pastor claimed that she died because she didn’t have enough faith… Seriously, I have no words to describe how much his reaction disgusts me even today, so many years after she died.

  30. 6390542x52 Avatar

    Glad you’re not my doctor.

  31. Typical_Tell_4342 Avatar

    God is not real miracles are not sins is not real. Science modern technology and medicine sure are tho.

  32. josmille Avatar

    So true. Well written.

    I don’t have the compassion to deal with people in general, let alone when they’re going through serious medical issues.
    Thank you for caring for our sick even if they don’t understand what you’re offering. Your help doesn’t go unnoticed or unappreciated.

  33. Omnomnomnosaurus Avatar

    I read a story once about a man and a big flood. He fled to the second floor of his house to escape the water. A boat came by, but he refused to get in because ‘God would save him’. The water got higher and he fled to the third floor of his house. Another boat came by, but he refused to get in because ‘God would save him’. The water got even higher and he fled to the roof of his house. A third boat came by, but he refused to get in because ‘God would save him’. The water got even higher and he drowned, went to heaven and asked God why He didn’t save him. And God answered: “what are you talking about, I sent three boats!”

  34. Beautiful_Action8407 Avatar

    i’m not a doctor but i am a christian so i can give a differing point of view. without going into all the theology, God is a BIG God. His powers aren’t limited to just one person. No one is good enough or special enough to deserve a miracle, that’s what makes God so amazing. We don’t deserve anything that He blesses us with but He still blesses us. Whether that’s in curing diseases or letting us go to be with Him. When it’s our time it’s our time and someone dying after praying for a miracle doesn’t mean God isn’t good or loving or kind or capable of preforming a miracle.

    It’s not about “being special enough” God is capable of helping millions of people at the same time and that help and those blessings can look very different that everyone else’s. I’d suggest you open your mind a little to their POV. I don’t mean that as a dig, but maybe it’ll help you understand why they have the faith that they do and why not getting our prayers answered doesn’t mean God is bad or doesn’t care, with the bonus point of why it’s not about being “more special” than someone else to receive the possibility of being cured.

  35. tnderosa Avatar

    Sounds like a magat cult thinking they’re Christians. They can die terribly

  36. chrissmcc Avatar

    I am glad my wife with stage 4 was not seeing you.