All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If “watsonian” or “doylist” is new to you, please review the full rules here.
No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to permanent ban on first offense.
We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world.
Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction.
I’m not a Star Wars expert, but doesn’t Dark Side ethos teach strength, dominance, and anger as a moral imperative*? If Palpatine believes those qualities are good, then they explain his actions to dominate the universe.
What? Palpatine definitely knew he was evil and enjoyed.
Palpatine in his youth was literally a senator’s Son that goes on illegal racing and be full Clockwork Orange killing people afterwards , promptly accepting tutelage from Plagueis as long he can personally kills his own family to gain their money and influence.
There are many Sith Lords that are evil due to ideology or been blood knights and so on. Palpatine is the exception because he is evil due to enjoying been evil
Palpatine is driven by an all consuming desire for power in all of its forms, pollical, legal, force, etc he wants power and will do what ever it takes to get it.
There is a world of difference between “not thinking you’re the bad guy”, and “thinking you’re the good guy”. He considered himself above common morality, and his own strength/ cunning were all the justification he needed.
Palpatine is the pope of a religion that preaches that seizing power the right and obligation of those who can, remember? It’s less that he thinks he’s the bad guy, and more like he thinks only fools worry about such things.
The Sith philosophy for which Palpatine followed holds that freedom and power are the only true ideals in the universe, and everything else is a lie. Therefore, any action done in pursuit of more power – and thus more freedom – for oneself is justified. The suffering and weakness of those he tramples on to get it is their fault, and simply the nature of things.
In addition, Palpatine has a huge ego. He genuinely believed that he is destined to rule and is the smartest, best person for it. So in his mind, the evil that he does, the suffering he causes, the darkness he revels in, that is simply his Will to Power and the taking of his freedom and right to dominate. He does not think of it as “good and evil” simply the actions of someone who recognizes the truth of the universe – there is only power – and has the means to act on it.
Jokes aside though, most people may not see themselves as “the bad guy” when they do things, but Palps definitely does. When you look at someone through the force, you sense aspects of them. When you look at Siddy, you just see black.
Sheev is evil. He loves being evil. That’s it. Other sith before him may have had different agendas, but him? Nah, he’s genuinely just evil. Some people are evil for the sake of it. It’s hard to believe and harder to stomach, but it’s true. People choose spite over forgiveness, hate over understanding, blah blah blah.
Bro is genuinely just evil. That’s why he did all that stuff.
You don’t think there are very real living people who have also gone to extreme lengths to consolidate power for the sake of consolidating power? Like say most world leaders on our literal modern planet?
You work off a half truth premise. Many people simply do not care if they are evil. This is distinct from the implication that people would not do things they thought were evil.
Well it’s not like the Sith call their side “the light side” as well. They know very well where they stand on the moral scale and embrace it.
They still believe their way is the right way (because for them everything comes second to power), but they know they’re objectively evil. Unlike for example terrorists who truly believe they’re fighting an evil oppression.
Nope, Palpatine knew that he was evil and relished it.
The idea that every villain is the hero in their own mind is fallacious. Many bad guys know exactly what they’re doing is evil, but they either don’t care about right and wrong or actively enjoy being evil.
Look at Jimmy The Gent from Goodfellas. He “always rooted for the bad guys in the movies”.
Any of the Salamancas from Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul
The Sith belief is that power is the one and only way to gain freedom and that the strong are meant to rule the weak. Palpatine follows the Sith ideology.
He wants unlimited power to have unlimited freedom and everything is justified in his mind to achieve this. Those who suffer because of it deserve it for being weak, if they were strong and smart enough they’d kill him and not suffer but they’re not so he can do whatever he wants to them.
Many Sith did have additional ideologies and delusions. Dooku thought he’ll fix the corruption in the galaxy and Vader thought he’ll bring order but Palpatine is as pure a Sith as it gets. He only cares about personal power and personal freedom, nothing else matters.
“Nobody thinks of themself as the bad guy” is a flawed saying. Palpatine surely did not see himself as a hero, he knew he was evil and did whatever he wanted with it.
A more correct saying would be “People usually think they are doing what is “right” to achieve their goals”. Consider that in this context, rightness isn’t about morality, but about what is necessary/adequate to achieve those goals. That is not an absolute saying either, but is more acurate to reality.
In the Legends canon? Palpatine was pretty much evil from the get-go. He’s from a noble very well to do family who I believe it was said they did cover some of the things he did up. Really? He was a future serial killer if you will and when Plagueis found him, he pretty much found the perfect person to mold and train to be a Sith.
In canon? We can guess that Sheev Palpatine went almost along the same lines. Really? Had he not had the force chances are old Sheev would have just been another corrupt member of the Senate. The Sith however? Well… He gets to kill a bunch of people he hates and run the galaxy.
Comments
Reminders for Commenters:
All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If “watsonian” or “doylist” is new to you, please review the full rules here.
No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to permanent ban on first offense.
We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world.
Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
I’m not a Star Wars expert, but doesn’t Dark Side ethos teach strength, dominance, and anger as a moral imperative*? If Palpatine believes those qualities are good, then they explain his actions to dominate the universe.
What? Palpatine definitely knew he was evil and enjoyed.
Palpatine in his youth was literally a senator’s Son that goes on illegal racing and be full Clockwork Orange killing people afterwards , promptly accepting tutelage from Plagueis as long he can personally kills his own family to gain their money and influence.
There are many Sith Lords that are evil due to ideology or been blood knights and so on. Palpatine is the exception because he is evil due to enjoying been evil
Im actually pretty sure that Palpatine does think of himself as the bad guy.
Palpatine is driven by an all consuming desire for power in all of its forms, pollical, legal, force, etc he wants power and will do what ever it takes to get it.
Palps wanted power. That’s a big part of sith ideals.
There is a world of difference between “not thinking you’re the bad guy”, and “thinking you’re the good guy”. He considered himself above common morality, and his own strength/ cunning were all the justification he needed.
Palpatine is the pope of a religion that preaches that seizing power the right and obligation of those who can, remember? It’s less that he thinks he’s the bad guy, and more like he thinks only fools worry about such things.
The Sith philosophy for which Palpatine followed holds that freedom and power are the only true ideals in the universe, and everything else is a lie. Therefore, any action done in pursuit of more power – and thus more freedom – for oneself is justified. The suffering and weakness of those he tramples on to get it is their fault, and simply the nature of things.
In addition, Palpatine has a huge ego. He genuinely believed that he is destined to rule and is the smartest, best person for it. So in his mind, the evil that he does, the suffering he causes, the darkness he revels in, that is simply his Will to Power and the taking of his freedom and right to dominate. He does not think of it as “good and evil” simply the actions of someone who recognizes the truth of the universe – there is only power – and has the means to act on it.
Palpatine definitely thinks he’s the bad guy and he loves that about himself
It’s possible that the EU version of Palpatine had some idea of the impending Yuuzhang Vong invasion and was building up to effectively fight it.
Though even then, I would say it was about preserving his own power, not any greater good.
Palpatine didn’t care about the question in the first place.
Only a sith deals in absolutes…
Jokes aside though, most people may not see themselves as “the bad guy” when they do things, but Palps definitely does. When you look at someone through the force, you sense aspects of them. When you look at Siddy, you just see black.
Sheev is evil. He loves being evil. That’s it. Other sith before him may have had different agendas, but him? Nah, he’s genuinely just evil. Some people are evil for the sake of it. It’s hard to believe and harder to stomach, but it’s true. People choose spite over forgiveness, hate over understanding, blah blah blah.
Bro is genuinely just evil. That’s why he did all that stuff.
Because he does think of himself as “the bad guy”. He relishes in being evil, in causing suffering.
You don’t think there are very real living people who have also gone to extreme lengths to consolidate power for the sake of consolidating power? Like say most world leaders on our literal modern planet?
Sith know they are the bad guys
Maybe not at first, like Anakin, but they figure it out lol
He IS the bad guy. Duh.
Which means Billie Eilish is his real heir.
True a lot of the time, he specifically likes being evil though.
You work off a half truth premise. Many people simply do not care if they are evil. This is distinct from the implication that people would not do things they thought were evil.
Well it’s not like the Sith call their side “the light side” as well. They know very well where they stand on the moral scale and embrace it.
They still believe their way is the right way (because for them everything comes second to power), but they know they’re objectively evil. Unlike for example terrorists who truly believe they’re fighting an evil oppression.
UNNNNLIMITED POWAH. That’s basically it.
Nope, Palpatine knew that he was evil and relished it.
The idea that every villain is the hero in their own mind is fallacious. Many bad guys know exactly what they’re doing is evil, but they either don’t care about right and wrong or actively enjoy being evil.
Look at Jimmy The Gent from Goodfellas. He “always rooted for the bad guys in the movies”.
Any of the Salamancas from Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul
Any version of The Joker
Art The Clown
Freddy Krueger
Darkseid
Etc etc.
The Sith belief is that power is the one and only way to gain freedom and that the strong are meant to rule the weak. Palpatine follows the Sith ideology.
He wants unlimited power to have unlimited freedom and everything is justified in his mind to achieve this. Those who suffer because of it deserve it for being weak, if they were strong and smart enough they’d kill him and not suffer but they’re not so he can do whatever he wants to them.
Many Sith did have additional ideologies and delusions. Dooku thought he’ll fix the corruption in the galaxy and Vader thought he’ll bring order but Palpatine is as pure a Sith as it gets. He only cares about personal power and personal freedom, nothing else matters.
“Nobody thinks of themself as the bad guy” is a flawed saying. Palpatine surely did not see himself as a hero, he knew he was evil and did whatever he wanted with it.
A more correct saying would be “People usually think they are doing what is “right” to achieve their goals”. Consider that in this context, rightness isn’t about morality, but about what is necessary/adequate to achieve those goals. That is not an absolute saying either, but is more acurate to reality.
Have you considered that some people just know the things they do are bad but simply don’t care?
In the Legends canon? Palpatine was pretty much evil from the get-go. He’s from a noble very well to do family who I believe it was said they did cover some of the things he did up. Really? He was a future serial killer if you will and when Plagueis found him, he pretty much found the perfect person to mold and train to be a Sith.
In canon? We can guess that Sheev Palpatine went almost along the same lines. Really? Had he not had the force chances are old Sheev would have just been another corrupt member of the Senate. The Sith however? Well… He gets to kill a bunch of people he hates and run the galaxy.