[The Princess Bride] How did Westley manage to beat Inigo, who is described as the greatest swordsman in the world? Inigo studied for his whole life and Westley for just a few years.
[The Princess Bride] How did Westley manage to beat Inigo, who is described as the greatest swordsman in the world? Inigo studied for his whole life and Westley for just a few years.
Comments
Reminders for Commenters:
All responses must be A) sincere, B) polite, and C) strictly watsonian in nature. If “watsonian” or “doylist” is new to you, please review the full rules here.
No edition wars or gripings about creators/owners of works. Doylist griping about Star Wars in particular is subject to permanent ban on first offense.
We are not here to discuss or complain about the real world.
Questions about who would prevail in a conflict/competition (not just combat) fit better on r/whowouldwin. Questions about very open-ended hypotheticals fit better on r/whatiffiction.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
From when I watched the movie and remember this Westley leans in and cuts off a lock of hair, then raps Inigo’s blade sharply and it falls from his hand. Westley puts him on point and Inigo, exhausted falls to his knees. Another point made during film was westley probably has a lot more skills that he gained while under roberts that dont show in any fight. He could probably fight in a number of different manners and with different weapons, whereas inigo has trained in sword fighting his whole life.
Intention and determination. Indigo had lost focus on his goal of revenge after not finding the six finger man for so long. This duel was a lark to him. He hadn’t had a real challenge in years so he wasn’t taking the fight seriously until the end, and frankly had gone to seed a little bit with drink. Westley on the other hand had one goal, Buttercup. To quote Coach Taylor ” Clear Eyes, Full Hearts. Can’t Lose.”
As Miracle Max points out, Wesley’s goal is true love. There’s something he can gain at the end of all of this – be reunited with Buttercup.
Inigo is motivated by revenge. So, while he’s certainly a great swordsman, there’s nothing he can gain from revenge. It won’t bring his father back.
Also, as Inigo says, it would be a shame to kill Wesley, so his heart was never really in that fight anyway.
IIRC, in the book, Inigo is better at pure fencing and drives Westley back. But Westley is better at fighting and uses the terrain to exhaust Inigo, controlling the flow of the fight to push him so he has his back to the cliff face. If they’d both gone all in, right-handed, from the start, then Inigo might have won. They are both described as being better than “Master Swordsmen” (like the Count) and are the only two “Wizard Swordsmen” of their generation.
Sometimes, in sports, there are upsets. The underdog challenger manages to beat the technically superior opponent. Like Rocky 1 (well, kinda, you get the idea). Winning once, outside of Shonen Manga, doesn’t make you unquestionably better. And, indeed, by the end of the book, it’s clear Inigo is better.
But also.
Inigo had studied for his whole life… and stalled in his quest for vegence. He can’t find the Count. He can’t find a worthy opponent. He’s turned to drink and banditry. Hardly at the peak of his skills.
And some people are just better. Remember Usain Bolt’s Olympic debute? Those were runners who had trained all their lives to be the best in the world, and Bolt left them in the dust. Westley is combining training with natural talent. It’s no coincidence that Luke Skywalker has the Force – if he was just an average farm boy who was going to get blown up by a no-name TIE fighter, the story wouldn’t be about him. We tell Luke and Westley’s stories because they are exceptional. Westley is an exceptional, one in a generation, talent. The Dread Pirate Roberts takes no prisoners… except Westley. Because everything about Westley is exceptional.
My final point is something my dad used to say. And that’s that you can only get so good at something. After a year of solid practice, ten thousand hours, that’s as expert as you are going to get. “You don’t have ten years’ experience, you have one year’s of experience, repeated ten times.” He would say there is no difference in skill at all between someone who had been doing a job for eight years and someone who had been doing it for fifteen, because after one year you know all the tricks and are as good as you are ever going to get. I think that’s a gross oversimplication… but there’s a kernel of truth to it. IRL fencing matches don’t always go to the person who has studied the longest. Or any sport. Practice is important, but it isn’t the only factor.
Been asked here a lot. My take is this.
If Westley was the six fingered man, Inigo would have wiped the floor with him.
Inigo had zero motivation to hurt Westley, and wouldn’t have even if he won. He simply wasn’t motivated. Westley recognized that Inigo was an honorable man and was never going to really hurt him either. But Westley had a NEED to get past him.
Westley won only because he was the only one of the two that needed to win.
TWOOOOO WUUUUUV!!
Westley had trained himself to basically be meme Batman, in his quest to be worthy of Buttercup.
He’s a quick learner.
Inigo is using a sword designed for a six-fingered man. That’s like sword fighting without your pinkie, control of the sword is going to be off.
Westley was a better fighter, Inigo was the better swordsman.
Westley was a pirate – he would cheat and use all kinds of non-sword tricks.
I’d argue in the rules of the princess bride universe that his love for Buttercup motivated him to be the best swordsman while he was training, allowing him to become the ultimate swordsman with true love.
The power of love
Inigo is good but you can’t stop true love.
It was motivation. Inigo was sort of going through his motions for a paycheck because his life’s goal, to kill the 6 fingered man, had stalled out. He looked a the fight like it was a simple contest for a paycheck and didn’t really have a hunger for the win.
Westley was trying to save the love of his life from a fate worse than death.
Despite all the witty banter, Westley was all in from the go. He only did the left handed thing because his true target wasn’t Inigo. Also, high level fencers like to test each other before they go all in.
If Inigo had been fighting the 6 fingered man he would have won, even if the 6 fingered man had all Wesley’s talent and athleticism.
Wesley was fighting for true love, Inigo was fighting for a paycheck at first, and then honor later, but not for vengeance or true love.
Westley was fighting for true love, Inigo was just doing a job. True love is a powerful force in The Princess Bride
Iirc inigo had the same problem as fezzik where they had both spent so long fighting six people at a time for the entertainment of crowds that they were out of practice facing one very determined opponent in a real fight
Duolingo for life vs German roommate for a month
The point of the story is that love will give you the willpower to overcome any challenge. Inigo had no real desire to kill Westley, and Westley desired to reunite w princess buttercup, and that’s about as simple as it is. Half of why Inigo is able to keep fighting the six fingered man despite being hungover and stabbed, is that he loved his father.
The best swordsman in the world doesn’t fear the second best. Inigo is better in technique but Westley was coming at him sideways
Inigo is the best duelist, fenced, and swordsman. However, Wesley learned to fight on pirate ships, in difficult terrain. He uses the terrain to his advantage to throw Inigo off his game. On a flat surface, Inigo murders him.
This response is based on the book.
[removed]
I have only seen the movie, but who described Inigo as the greatest swordsman in the world? He was capable, sure, but greatest in the world?
I think it comes down to Wesley being better, Inigo’s reputation exceeding his actual prowess (very skilled though he is) and the flashbacks/past being more distant than the story implied.
I think Wesley and Buttercup were much younger when she first called him farmboy, and that Wesley might have spent closer to a decade as a pirate. I think it must take some time to go to sea, get captured by pirates, earning the captain’s deepest trust, and heading back to Florin and Guilder (which I now just realize are Dutch currency prior to the Euro.)
First off, Inigo may be the greatest swordsman in the world, but Westley is a better tactician and athlete. If they had fought on a flat ground, Inigo likely would have won, but the duel took place on rocky uneven terrain, where Westley’s planning and physicality can put him ahead.
Second off, True Love gives Westley an automatic success in whatever he does towards getting to Buttercup.
I just watched this movie – does anyone else have good Ask Science Fiction questions about it? haha
Inigo didn’t want to actually kill Westley, He was going to because he had to. But he also greatly underestimated him. He gave him a chance, didn’t go all out. Which made for a great scene. But Inigo did not actually train, he rested on his laurels. He was a amazing swordsman, which made him better than 80-90% of everyone else, but he was no longer in his prime, more likely to be drunk in a gutter than practicing. and Wesley was an actively working pirate. dueling a lot It’s akin to if Shawn Johnson went against Simone Biles. One is older, not training and the other is younger, and still training. They were both amazing in their prime, but one is clearly less capable now. And if Shawn Johnson didn’t know of Simone Biles, she might be a bit cocky first time meeting.
Since I don’t see anyone mentioning it yet, in the movie:
Westley: You’ve done nothing but study swordplay?
Inigo Montoya: More pursuing than studying, lately. You see, I cannot find him. It’s been twenty years now. I’m starting to lose confidence.
Inigo has been slacking on the training and is feeling defeated. Neither his head nor his heart are in the game, whereas Westley is obsessively committed to defeating this enemy in front of him and saving Buttercup.
My personal head canon is that, finally meeting a swordsman on par with himself, Inigo felt that maybe this would be the best, most honorable death he would ever have a chance at, and while he honestly engaged in the fight, he was not too upset when he found himself on the backfoot and ultimately lost. He was ready to die by the blade of a worthy swordsman.
[The Bible] Why doesn’t the race always go to the swift?
It’s similar to how martial arts experts of just one style get completely pummeled in MMA, they are the best given a set of rules but that goes all out the window when the opposition can pull from any style.
Similarly, Westley learned to fight with a sword forv years under one of the best fighters in the world, with tall practical experience. Indigo is essentially a master of fencing, used to fighting other’s who fight with the same restricted style. The second Westley deviated from the rule book, Indigo’s advantage disappeared and Westley was able to overcome him.
True love, dude. True love.
True love. Duh.
Inigo liked Wesley instantly. He did not like his employer very much. Also Wesley was still pretty damn good.
In the book, if I’m remembering correctly, it’s mentioned that Inigo isn’t in top form. Too many easy jobs, a long time spent being a drunk, so he’s like of like a former pro athlete. More than enough for most people, but he’s coming up against Wesley who’s in his prime and is stronger.
The book mentions that in the open areas Inigo has the edge but in the rocks and rough terrain Wesley does. Inigo spends too much time messing around and when he finally realizes he needs to dig deep and get serious his lack of conditioning means he can’t find those extra gears he used to have. Wesley keeps him in the disadvantageous terrain and is able to beat him.