So I have this concept that latin american countries, in a similar way as in the US and Canada (so basically all “new world” countries), have a definition of nationality that’s based on citizenship and not ancestry.
So I’ve been arguing with a few fellow gringos that… the new Pope is also Peruvian!
I’m curious if you all agree with me.
If someone moves to your country from elsewhere and becomes a citizen, are they now one of you? A Peruvian or Mexican or Guatemalan, Brazilian, whatever it might be!
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Depends on if they are liked and/or important. 10 years ago a lot of people would have considered Elon Musk a American. That doesn’t seem like the case now.
He is a peruvian citizen, but not what most people think when they say “peruvian”. Similar to how if you say “south dakotan” you don’t picture someone with a texan accent, but there’s probably a few of people who grew up in southern USA living up north at the Dakotas.
But yeah, he’s Peruvian.
It is a concept of citizenship and not ancestry, but also his case has two singularities. First one is that he actually seemed very immersed in day to day life here and this is also where he made his career. The second thing is that if a person is prominent, it doesn’t matter if they have never been to Peru and only have one Peruvian grandmother, they will be considered Peruvian because it gives us pride.
For the normal person, IDK. If you are a regular American of Peruvian parents that doesn’t speak Spanish and is not in touch with Peruvian culture, you may even have a passport, but maybe not everyone will consider you Peruvian.
In the Pope’s case, he is Peruvian cause he legally is. When he was just a bishop in Chiclayo he was probably seen as a gringo with harta cancha in Peru. Now that he is the Pope he is most definitely Peruvian in every shape and form.
He has Peruvian citizenship so here’s Peruvian. He had to apply for citizenship this means he wanted to be Peruvian . He decided to live in Peru so many years.
We can only assumed he enjoyed Peru and wanted to be Peruvian. Just because he’s Peruvian , it doesn’t take away from him being from the USA
i’m a muslim so idc. nothing but love to Perú and its beautiful and kind sons and daughters
Personally? Neither. I mean, i know that both can formally lead to nationality depending on the local laws but what I’ve seen in my country Is that cultural affiliation Is most important for real acceptance and sharing of one’s nationality with a foraigner. I’m not a catholic and the only thing i know about this guy Is that he has chosen to live and practice His faith among the peruvians for decades… In my eyes he Is more peruvian than North American.
nationality concepts aside, the mother fucking dude changed the language of his acceptance speech only to send his regards to Chiclayo, and im sure that gesture will remain in the hearts of a lot of peruvians for generations to come
If you live in a place long enough to get citizenship, you’re also from that place.
I consider him to be both American and Peruvian
He’s a dual citizen of both Peru and the US. So yes, he’s a US national and a Peruvian national. Idk what his ancestry is though.
Leãozinho has already been successfully adopted by Brazilians.
https://preview.redd.it/754i5vnfhoze1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=2291ca0ac2b4264bdc54b3152403ac43dbb10161
Here he is, in Belo Horizonte with the rapaziada da firma having a breja to relax and enjoy the comes e bebes.
He looks like a recently retired Brazilian dad that worked in public service kkkkkkkkk
If he has Peruvian citizenship, he is Peruvian.
Ancestry and nationality are two different things.
>If someone moves to your country from elsewhere and becomes a citizen, are they now one of you?
If they embrace the culture, yes. Though, it would be easier to see this person as one of us if, first of all, their ancestry were linked to the nation I’m part of (i.e., in Brazil, Julia Bergmann, Tati Weber and even Mia Goth).
I’d say yes. He’d lived there for over 30 years and has citizenship. The combo to me is irrefutable evidence that he considers himself “of Peru” as much as anywhere else.
This is called being a “naturalized citizen”… two countries can claim the Pope.
As time passes and technology helps span distances, I think multi-national/cultural identities are increasingly common. This is very relatable for many people.
He is Peruvian too, that said, his main nationality is 100% the US
He’s an American with Peruvian citizenship and exposure. He probably loves Peru. But he grew up with electricity 24-7, American schools, Chicago White Sox fan , went to Loyola University (I want to Fordham, brother school and sports rivalry). Fact he spent so many years in Peru is why I like him. Had he done most of his work in the USA I wouldn’t be as happy.
I dont care to be honest. None of this matters at the end of the day because the Pope does not really make decisions that impact the world in any meaningful way.
I would say that the Pope is a Peruvian national as he spent a quarter of his life there. No he doesnt have any ethnic ties to Peru but the majority of nations in the West/Americas don’t function on a strict concept of Bloodlines and country like the Dominican Republic.
Nationality and identity are layered, yet at their core they come down to two things. The legal aspect, whether the state recognizes you as a citizen, and the cultural aspect, whether the people see you as one of their own. No nation has a single, fixed identity, yet in conversation, we can often tell if someone is seen as being from here or not. I don’t know anything about the new pope, but if he has citizenship, he’s legally that nationality. As for the cultural aspect, I have no idea how he is viewed or anything about his cultural ties to Peru.
Correct me if I’m wrong but , he shouted out Chiclayo, Peru and didn’t mention Chicago at all?
It’s a game on how people choose here in Latin America .. I recall people saying scheinbum wasn’t Mexican but her family has been here in Mexico for 6 generations while Milei (Argentina President) parents are from Italy and no one denies he’s Argentine and there’s also President Bukele whose parents are born Palestine but also no one denies he’s Salvadoran then there’s Luis Miguel who moved to Veracruz Mexico at 9 months old and he’s a Mexican citizen but he’s born in Puerto Rico and people deny he’s Mexican even though Luis Miguel clearly says he’s Mexican .. pretty exhausting
New Pope is Gringo.
He was born in Chicago.
I mean if you’re a Catholic it doesn’t really matter right?
You’re supposed to love this guy no matter what his nationality is.
The real answer to this is people try to find a way to claim people they like and try to push away people they don’t like.
Eg. If some big star or celebrity can be claimed by your demographic group, people claim them
Eg. If some horrible person does atrocities then people try to find ways to say they aren’t from their demographic group.
Because he’s the Pope everyone who has any way to argue he’s part of their demographic group will try to argue that he is of their demographic group.
If in 20 years he becomes disgraced in some way everyone will try to argue he’s not part of their demographic group
Following this a bit.
I think people generally accept dual nationals. At least I hope so as a nationalized Argentinian 😂 although I don’t think it’s the same concept of nationality as the US. But I’m not sure I could pinpoint the difference. Something something culture something something perspective something something “get it”.
As a dual national I want to point out that when we nationalize, we choose to become a citizen of that nation. We often swear loyalty to it (at least on some level). The US is weird in that we pledge allegiance to the flag but that is not the same as swearing fealty to the patria in front of a federal judge (which I had to do). There are passport bros sure, but much of the time choosing to become a citizen is a conscious choice that indicates some degree of personal sense of connection to the country particularly because permanent residence exists and it’s usually enough for most people. I mention this because I’m sure on some level, especially considering the time he spent in Peru, the Pope feels at least a reasonably strong connection to Peru.
He’s obviously legally peruvian, however thats not enough to feel like a peruvian Pope.
On his specific case, from what Ive read, I believe he succefully naturalized peruvian, not only in a legal manner but also in a cultural one. On his discourse to the world earlier today he spoke in italian, in latin and in spanish! Not in english. He already made references for his work in Peru. The main period of his career (until now) he was in Peru. He seems to respect and embrace the country.
Im not peruvian and Ive only read a bit about him, but if those factors are correct I feel he should be embraced as a naturalized peruvian on andeeper level, no just in a superficial one of documents.
Just like in the US and Canada, some folks do have this sense of ancestry tied to nationality to some extent. “No, but where are you REALLY from” is just as likely to be directed at a Japanese-American as a Korean-Mexican.
No he’s not.
He applied for Prevuian citizenship, he wanted to be. Also, every photo that I can find of him is increidbly latín american. Which tells me he got inmersed in the culture, which is the most important part. He wanted to be, he lived there for a ton of time, he was part of the Episcopal Conferencia of Perú and went to the cónclave as a peruvian representarive as far as i understand. But more than that, he got inmersed in the culture, ergo, he is.
I don’t know if he is more gringo tan peruvian, but his brother said in an interview that Perú is “where his heart is”. He called out his pervuian diocese in his first adress, so, that says something.
In El Salvador, we had a similar case with father Rogelio Ponseele, a belgian priest who lived here for like 40 years. Weird accent, clearly white, but got inmersed in the culture so he was salvadoran to all acounts. He died recently and asked to be buried in Morazán.
The funny thing is that the US is the absolute KING of taking other countries’ people and claiming them as their own as soon as they stand out. e.g. Among the 410 individuals academic Nobel Laureates, 142 (35%) are immigrants to the U.S. A lot of them were actually “invited” to become U.S. citizens as a condition for the nomination and support.
Now they’re on the other side and just can’t take it. They just can’t fathom that one of their own could eventually connect with other people and land and become part of them in every way possible.