Maybe it’s because I used to do this all the time and I now know how annoying I looked and sounded when I did this, but it’s also because I stopped due to learning that I was treating all arguments like we were in some sort of official debate setting, such as an academic or competitive debate, or meeting with someone on a podcast to debate a specific topic.
I had to learn to view conversations and arguments with friends and random people as a totally different thing, even if that person I was arguing with was using a lot of logical fallacies. I realized I wasn’t getting any points for declaring that someone made a straw man argument, or ad hominem, or whatever else. Sometimes I’ll still point out if someone made a false equivalence, but I’ll never just say “False equivalence.” I’ll explain why what they said isn’t on the same level as what we’re discussing, and why.
I see conversations online between people going back and forth pointing these things out, and I can tell each time that the conversation isn’t going anywhere. Nobody has ever changed their mind due to the person they’re talking with trying to sound smarter than them. So if you find yourself wanting to point out a logical fallacy, instead either just don’t engage, or address the issue itself.
Real life conversations don’t have point systems or an audience that’s impressed by you for your professional debate skills. You’re just two people having a talk. That’s all.
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You are assuming that pointing out logical fallacies isn’t “addressing the issue.” However, the point of identifying a fallacy is to show the other person where they are deviating from the issue.
People who argue online usually aren’t trying to convince anyone. They just want to get under your skin and take satisfaction in doing so.
It feels good and you should try it as well.
So bullshit annoys OP less than calling it out.
I’m guessing you make arguments with lots of them
I’ll go even further. It’s annoying IN those settings too. Lots of them do make sense and are good guidelines for honest debate, but often people aren’t USING them, they’re just saying the name of the fallacy until the other person stops talking. I feel like you’re supposed to use the fallacy rule to steer the conversation back into a productive space or break down why it’s not a fair point not just yell the name of the rule like some type of asshole referee.
the perameters of a debate are set in stone for the most part. the question of should i point out a fallacy in ones arguments comes down to one of 2 things .. is this a debate ? is their logic wrong and should i shine light on it to educate the other party? if its not a ‘debate’ and you hear it as a passing comment then youre under no obligation to do so. ultimately who cares ? if you think that pointing out someones flawed argument during an argument is the annoying part then youre naive.
Some people also don’t know they are engaging in poor or counter productive debate tactics.
There is nothing wrong with pointing out logical fallacies, doing so in a polite manner is always better than letting it continue. It’s actually easier to change a person’s mind in a casual conversation than it is to do so during a televised debate. The minute you introduce a camera and an audience, suddenly the participants are more concerned with scoring points with their base than engaging in meaningful dialogue.
I agree. Sort of, anyway.
If you’re talking to someone and there’s a fallacy in their reasoning, ad hominem, post hoc, slippery slope, you name it, that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily wrong. It doesn’t mean they’re incorrect. It means their reasoning they used to get there is fallacious.
So I do think there’s a limited value in just calling that out, especially and a bullshit, low stakes situation like a Reddit argument.
If someone has made a mistake in their argument, pointing it out might help them see the other side.
However I agree this is largely pointless in an online “debate” because nobody is honestly looking for a debate, they just want to say their opinion.
Republicans
Damn you sound like you used to be insufferable. Yeah normal people don’t give a fuck about fallacies and people who just discovered them and think they found an instant win move are hilarious. Most of the time they don’t even understand the fallacies anyway.
I constantly get people saying “ad hominem” just because I insult them, which is stupid. It only means I don’t respect you. As long as I am explaining to you why you are wrong it isn’t a fallacy, it’s me not respecting you.
Fallacies have been over and misused to the extent that it’s about as powerful as “I see you wrote a thorough explanation but you made on typo so checkmate”. Is ridiculous really.
i agree with you but lament seeing all the wannabe AI robots coming out of the woodwork to disagree with you.
Discissions and arguments should be learning experiences. If I am actually debating a topic with someone that understands when I say “that is simply an appeal to authority”, then I will call them on it. If arguing with a child, you might explain the fallacy to teach them. When arguing with someone like MAGA…you already lost (your time and probably IQ points)
Is it a debate if one side is vomiting fallacies? Sounds like a waste of time
Obviously naming the fallacy they’re using is ridiculous but you can point out that they’re making one without directly doing so. “You’re deflecting”, “that’s not a good comparison”, “that’s an exaggeration”, etc.
Respectfully, the people around you sound boring AF.
Yeah they’re important to understand but just as you’ve discovered, there’s more to convincing others than understanding the structure of an argument.
If you’re going to point out a fallacy oftentimes it’s better to just bake that into a point you’re making without naming the fallacy.