For context this stems from a recent incident which has resulted in me starting to grow apart from my close friendship group
My friends kept making jokes about me being “gay” because of the way I spoke (quite old fashioned at times), act or even some small things I do subconsciously. This has been going on for over 1yr now
I’ve politely asked the group multiple times to stop making the jokes as they’re starting to give me a complex / make me overthink about basic mannerisms. I’m probably termed as a “nice guy” which is why some of these jokes arise…
Recently; i introduced them to the girl I’m currently dating and they continued making the jokes in front of her; this was the final straw as it made us uncomfortable. I personally think they should have stopped after I politely asked but Reddit ask you whether this is just normal banter or whether my frustrations are acceptable!
Comments
It’s different for everyone. I just speak up when I feel a line was crossed.
I don’t think those are your friends, but more of your activity group. How many of them do you hang with one on one?
Making fun of you in front of a woman is especially, unquestionably bad behavior on their part. These arent friends. Sorry.
If you’re included, people laugh with you and stop if you seem upset – it’s bants.
If you’re singled out, people laugh at you and it doesn’t stop if you’re upset it’s bullying.
This sounds toxic, not banter. The reason is because its clearly a boundary for you. What a lot of people dont get about banter, specifically male-male friendship banter, is that it isnt suppose to cross personal boundaries. It’s about socially finding the things that its “okay” to make fun of, but never crossing the line with the deep seated insecurities.
An example of this is that Im fairly short, but unlike most men my height has never been a major insecurity for myself. And Ive made that clear to my friend groups, so they naturally banter about me being short. When we watch LotR theyll mention that Im in the movie when we see Hobbits. Its funny and I dont mind. I joke about one of my buddies being fat because I know it isnt a major insecurity point for him.
But they’ve learned over time that Im not okay with jokes about my voice because its a big insecurity for me. The moment they realize this, no one crosses that line. This is why this type of banter is good for male bonding, I know they have the ammunition to really hurt me, but they never do. And that means a lot. They know what things they can make fun of (things that sting a little but nothing major) and what they cant (things that are crippling).
Its important to open up enough in most male circles to allow safe ammunition (like my height) but also important to make it clear which ammunition shouldnt be used. You do this by setting clear boundaries. Youve done that and they continue to use them. This is toxic. Id make it doubly clear again that you arent okay with these jokes and if they keep using them, Id definitely think its toxic.
In general if I tell someone to stop and they don’t, I would consider it bullying instead of banter. I also do not accept people who will make jokes and can’t take them back. I do not associate with either of these types of people and the banter back and forth is savage amongst my friend group because we all understand it is a joke, we would all be mortified if we actually managed to offend each other.
With regard to the “he’s gay”, it’s pretty easy to deflect with “rob keeps telling everyone I’m gay because he has a huge crush on me and doesn’t know how to handle it, I’ve told you I’m straight rob you really need to move on to someone a little more in your league”.
When someone says that it bothers him or her and they continue doing it, banter stops being banter. It is bullying with the inclusion of laugh track
Last time someone started that shit with me which was like 20 years ago, that actually came down to the fact that the guy wanted to get with my girlfriend, for some odd reason, he decided to be a dick every time I brought her around as if that was going to magically get her attention, last time I saw them we were all sitting on bar stools at a table, he started his shit again for the last time because I already had my mind made up even before we went, if we started this shit and I’m going to put him on his ass.
He did and I just immediately got up and I kicked his stool as hard as I could he fell right on his ass, and I told him if he ever does it again, or even tries to be whatever variation of asshole he’s become in my presence you better have medical insurance because I’m done listening to your crap.
He basically got ejected out of the friend group. A few days later after he tried to get everyone on his side. Most of us were already at our limit with him, he was one of those dudes who would just openly flirt with anyone’s girlfriend and try to get with them, but would never date outside of trying to go after someone in the friend group, even if they weren’t in the group just adjacent to it. It was a weird complex he had. Personally, I think it had something to do with him being in competition with his brother and his brother routinely stealing his girlfriends when they were teenagers
Banter is when both people are in on it.
A joke is when everyone laughs. Bullying is when everyone ELSE laughs.
If people are being bullies and refuse to change when called out, you remove them from your life. It could be sudden no contact or a general distancing until the relationship is no more, whichever works for you, but you are not obligated to accept their behavior at any point. And if they try to say “it’s just a joke”, ask them to explain in detail how it’s funny because you’re not laughing.
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banter is a somewhat equal amount of insults and bad jokes going back and forth where all parties involved enjoy this.
When someone asks the group to stop making a specific type of jokes, friends just make one last joke about it, and then stop.
These guys don’t sound like friends. It’s more that you’re the standard victim of a joke for them.
The line is when you tell them to stop that behavior, but they keep it up anyway. That’s bullying.
Banter that crosses the line will stop if the person isn’t a complete shithead.
Your “friends” are shitheads, and are not friendly in any way.
This isn’t normal banter. You need new friends.
If you can say alright guys enough in a somewhat serious tone and they quit/don’t quit.
That’s the line.
If you say come on guys seriously just drop it and they do. Then they are your friends just razzing you.
If they do not, they are picking on you and being cruel.
Now this expectation of them to quit doesn’t last forever just for the night/event length.
They can do it again on a different night and still be being friends.
As a side note, especially if you are a guy that gets teased by your buddies you are supposed to tell them ahead of time that you’re introducing them to a girl and you want them not to embarrass you.
I’d get new friends, the ones you have aren’t anyone I’d call friend.
Your frustrations are completely acceptable. The moment you asked them to stop, it stopped being banter and became disrespect. Good banter involves everyone having fun – when someone says “hey, this isn’t fun for me anymore” and the group keeps going, that’s not friendship behavior.
The fact that they continued in front of your girlfriend shows they either don’t respect you or don’t understand how boundaries work. Either way, that’s a problem. Most likely, however, they don’t realize it’s wrong. Guys talk like this. It could be an automatic, and they don’t know how to relate to you otherwise. They might not intend to hurt you… but it is hurting you! That’s more than enough to ask them to stop, even if they don’t realize they’re doing something wrong.
Here’s what I’d suggest: have one final, direct conversation with them. Not polite, not beating around the bush. Something like “I’ve asked you multiple times to stop the gay jokes and you’ve ignored me. When you did it in front of my girlfriend, you crossed a line. I need you to understand that this stops now or I’m going to distance myself from this group.”
Then see how they respond. If they get defensive, call you sensitive, or brush it off – you have your answer about what kind of friends they really are.
I run The Arena Men’s Group and work with a lot of guys who struggle with setting boundaries, especially with friends. The “nice guy” thing you mentioned is real – sometimes we avoid conflict so much that people don’t take our boundaries seriously. But asking someone to stop making jokes at your expense isn’t being difficult, it’s being a human being with self-respect.
Real friends adjust their behavior when they learn something is hurting you. These guys are showing you who they are – believe them.
Growing apart from friends who don’t respect your boundaries isn’t a loss, it’s making room for better people in your life.
Intent
I don’t
Unless all parties involved find it funny and are laughing, it’s not a joke.
That’s toxic behavior on their part. You already made multiple requests for them to stop making jokes like that. But not only did they refuse to acknowledge it, they took it another step too far by making that joke in front of your girlfriend. They already know you don’t find it funny, so that’s just bullying.
Not a man, but I draw the distinction by intent. If it’s clearly in good fun and not malicious, it’s banter. If it’s clearly intended to make me feel or look bad, it’s rude and potentially bullying/toxic.
I give people the benefit of the doubt initially if it’s hard to tell what their intent is, but once you’ve made it clear that it bothers you, then any continuation beyond that point is knowingly disrespectful.
The line is called “Knock that shit off”. If they don’t, it’s bullying.
Friends laugh with you.
My friends engage in banter based on shared experiences. Sometimes it will be about something done that is embarrassing but it wouldn’t ever be continued if it was about something that is upsetting and we’re close enough to know the difference.
You’ve drawn a line, and have been clear about it. If it were me I’d start being too busy to attend things. You’ve outgrown your current friend group. It happens.
When it hurts and they not only don’t stop and apologize, they keep going