To be clear, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being a man and saying you’re a feminist. In theory, I think it’s great. But so far, every guy I’ve ever met who made a big deal of saying they’re a feminist has turned out to be an a**hole. The men that are actually awesome never say they’re a feminist. If you asked them directly they might say they are, but they would never bring it up on their own.
It’s gotten to the point where as soon as a guy says he’s a feminist, I put my guard up and avoid them if possible.
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I mean my mixed gender friend group considers that to be basically a universal law.
Short ones: “Indeed, it seems we’ve all had those ‘I’m-not-like-the-other-guys’ moments.” Longer take: “But let’s not dismiss the good ones who quietly stand by us, ya know?”
As always, its not what you say, but what you do that proves who you are.
Yup. Or the ones that say they value emotional empathy. What they really mean is that they want YOU to value THEIR emotions…over your own.
Yeah I take the approach of “If you have to say it, you’re not it”, so just don’t take people like that on their word.
They’re virtue signalling, or trying to get in your pants, or both. So yep. Worst types of guys.
I think that’s because of the situation it is said. Decent people probably don’t have to go around advertising that they’re feminist. Not unlike people who say “im not racist” almost always follow up with shit that’s wildly racist
Easier for them to say than to do. Anyone can go around calling themselves a feminist, and most that do will perhaps have the most tepid and lukewarm takes possible which they’ve taken from skim reading a ChatGPT summary of a Wikipedia article on feminism.
I’ve taken to calling it performative feminism, I guess I assume it’s with the goal of impressing women around them rather than someone really believing and practicing it.
I think anyone who makes a big deal out of being what should be considered the bare minimum is probably going to end up being problematic.
“I’m actually a really great person because I think all people are equal regardless of gender.” – like good for you homie, I would hope literally anyone would agree that this is the case. Bragging about it is weird.
General rule of thumb – if someone has to go around saying ‘I’m a good person’ all the time, they’re likely not as good as they think they are. Same logic applies here.
Doubly so as you get labelled ‘feminist’ for frankly the most anodyne takes of all time, so giving yourself the label isn’t even necessary half the time.
Found out the hard way that virtue signalling can be a cover. Which sucks.
I would still rather someone say that they’re a feminist, I think that’s a great thing to be comfortable saying. But I will watch actions before trusting them with anything significant.
I think it’s a bit of “the lady doth protest too much, methinks” in that most men who are feminists don’t have to tell you they are.
I’ve not met any guys that outright say they are feminists, but they make a point of saying how they don’t know a single guy that treats women poorly, and they too are one of the good ones
It’s like the people who say they don’t have a racist bone in their body
Yep. If someone insists on telling me something instead of showing through their actions, I’m automatically suspicious. It also goes for men who talk a big game about consent. Every guy who brought up how much they value consent prior to us sleeping together ended up manhandling me without consent (even after I communicated my needs repeatedly) and generally acted like a douchebag who had never respected a boundary in his life…
Men who don’t want to DEMONSTRATE their character over time are not to be trusted. They want to fast-track intimacy and get you to trust them at their word so that they can obtain whatever it is they want from you. Men who are healthy and seeking a real connection will be consistent, patient, and show through their actions that they value you. Not to say that words don’t matter when vetting someone’s character, but their actions need to align with those words. And it shouldn’t ever come across as arrogant/self-aggrandizing.
I (a man) was talking to my wife about this recently actually, and said that’s it’s hard to describe yourself as a feminist as a straight man, regardless of your direct politics. There’s just not many places where it’s culturally safe to do so.
It ends up being a situation where the only space you can call yourself a feminist is with other men, due to this reaction to calling yourself feminist. I can only call myself a feminist when talking directly about women’s issues with men who are opposed to feminism. In any other context, this post is the assumption people make about you (and really, it’s the view that anti-feminists have of men who call themselves feminist, since its an easy way to delegitimize a political opponent as they ‘just want to get in women’s pants’).
It’s a problem that men can’t self-identify as feminists culturally, and yes, these kinds of guys are part of that problem. You end up having to use lukewarm neutral language like “supporting women’s rights” instead of saying the word ‘feminist’. Ideally, I would call myself a feminist, but there’s not a safe place to do that as a straight man. I don’t want to make people put their guards up just because I said I support feminism.
Disclaimer: context matters, of course. Some dude at the bar swinging up and saying “hey baby, I’m a feminist” is different from what I’m doing here. I doubt I’ll get as much heat for saying I’m a feminist in this comment than I would trawling irl feminist spaces.
Yepppp. My ex was the biggest POS. He could hold his own and speak up for women’s rights, but when it came to how he treated women? Cheated on every woman he has ever been with, gave two of us STI’s, and put his hands on me.
Take people by their actions, not only their words.
I do know a guy who walks around carrying a tote that says “this is what a feminist looks like” who is just a solid, all-around good guy. He does things like assigning himself the task of cleaning up after meals, undramatically and without calling attention to the fact that he’s doing it, in a female dominated space.
But he is very much the exception to the rule, in my experience.
buying a coexist sticker is easier than not driving like an asshole.
I tend to distrust people who announce what they are.
Or at least take it with a grain of salt.
Just show me what you are without spelling it out.
People like that are same as Christians who loudly show off their faith.
Show me, don’t tell me.
I have a wife and a daughter and feel like I am one, but would never call myself one. Not because I don’t believe in the cause, but because dudes who say that are always disingenuous pricks who are trying to pull.
I would hope my words and actions are enough.
If someone vice signals (“I’m an anti-feminist”, “Andrew Tate has some good ideas,” “your body, my choice,” etc.), it’s entirely appropriate to take them at their word and the threat that entails.
But like you’re saying, someone who virtue signals is essentially just writing a check, and lots of people try pass bad checks.
A man who is actually a feminist ought to tell you by doing and be making the payments directly rather than writing checks to be cashed later. It’s a lot more feminist to treat a woman as a whole person, including when she is not and never will be sexually available to him, than it is to just announce it.
A guy who self-describes as a feminist in his Tinder bio is surely a red flag, as you’ve said. Whereas a guy who noticed that the boss is overlooking a coworker and speaks up to say, “That was Michelle’s idea,” or volunteers to take notes, or just says “dude, that’s not cool” in response to misogyny is doing basic feminism but also not looking for credit or applause because being a “male feminist” ought to just be default behavior rather than a piece of flair.
It’s the eagerness with which they volunteer that information that makes me question why they need me to know that.
Classic virtue signalling😬😬
If a man needs to say he is a feminist then he isn’t one.
They are called “white knights” and purposely come across as being friendly and respectful only so they can access women they would normally not be considered by. I have friends who are of this nature, and it’s really cringe to see from the outside, unfortunately lots of women fall into these traps and suddenly become victims of their emotional abuse once they realise they aren’t compatible. A real feminist acts as such and has no need to inflate their own self interests.
I’ve never heard my husband say he’s a feminist. He just is one. It’s how his momma raised him.
I would be glad if someone described me as that “F” word…
But so many cruddy dudes have screwed up that word, I would never call myself one! (Dude, IRL, btw)
I just say, “Hey! I read 5 of the 6 Jean Auel books! The Ayla series? Such an amazing story….”
I 100% do not believe you can be a cis man and a feminist. You can be an ally. You can be supportive. But only women can be truly feminist.
Be especially careful around men who wear t-shirts or hats with the word “feminist” emblazoned on it. For every genuine ally, there’s 299 more trying to put their toxic barb inside a gullible young girl.
As a cis man who generally agrees with my understanding of intersectional feminism, I don’t think I’ve ever said the words “I am a feminist”. I am wary of anyone too quick to speak highly of themselves.
This certainly holds true for me. Turned out the guy just had different rules for how women were supposed to behave, he didn’t actually believe in their agency, autonomy, and dignity.
To me, it’s performative and yes, usually means he’s not.