As my circle is starting to hit 30, there’s a clear divide growing that’s more complex than just “haves and havenots”. Most of my bros are well adjusted good men, career and family etc. and it’s very rewarding seeing the men we’ve all grown into.
But I’ve realized that a few have become really defeated bitter guys that refuse to grow or change. To give example one guy has said things like
“I’m 28 the ship has sailed on me doing anything great”,
“If we were going to start a business we would’ve done it but we’re not those guys”,
“You need to accept your place in life”.
Just very defeated, and there’s an excuse for everything. We’ve been friends for a long time, but somewhere along the way they stopped growing and subtly shifted into this. I’ve had no success talking to them about it. Have you experienced it? Is it as straightforward as leaving them behind? Did you just accept that they’d be this way from now on? Is it common for guys to make this change at this age?
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It sounds like you need to have some painfully honest conversation with these guys. Okay, they’re 28-29 years old and they’re not billionaires or movie stars. That’s life for just about everyone. The real question is what are they going to do next to make their lives, and the lives of their families or future families, better.
Give these guys a few chances. If they’re still bitter assholes after a few more years, you might have to cut them loose.
By the way, “I’m 28 the ship has sailed on me doing anything great” .. this is bullshit. William S. Burroughs didn’t start writing novels until his 40s.
I’m 34 and some of my mates have seemed to have given up a bit, no idea if I should be supportive or hard on them.
Yeah it’s the internal vs. external locus of control. Some people believe primarily in “luck” and that pretty much everything that happens to them is outside of control.
In other words — everything in their life is not THEIR fault or a result of THEIR actions, but because of circumstances completely beyond their control (economy, the family they were born into…etc…etc…etc) and that’s why they are where they are. Because of them, or it, or society, or luck, or whatever.
No amount of trying to convince them otherwise will help. They turn into “crabs in a bucket” the mere suggestion that they have enough control over their life to better their circumstances will be met with vitriolic opposition because that would entail that where they are now is their fault so they will try to drag you down back into the bucket with them.
They do not want to believe anything in their life is their fault. The only way they can rationalize that away is by blaming the world around them and then seeking out confirmation to further that belief by consuming information about how they were jipped by society or born into the wrong time or that rich people stole their opportunities or that boomers are to blame and so on down the line.
And the way they try to “trick” themselves into believing they’re doing SOMETHING is by verbally raging against the machine they have used as a scapegoat or maybe attending a protest here or there but that’s it. Anything to avoid focusing on what they do have control over.
They will say things like “Society has to do X or Y and then things will change” and until that happens there is no point in THEM changing, so ultimately they do nothing.
And they will also conjur up a million “what if” scenarios on why even trying to succeed is pointless. For example– climate change is just going to kill us all anyway. The economy is just going to tank anyway. AI is going to take all the jobs anyway… so why even try?
They will only seek to confirm this bias to further remove personal responsibility from their own lives.
Best thing to do is just leave them to it and stop associating with them. If they genuinely want help, they’ll ask for it and seek it out.
Experienced this a couple years ago, I’m only a year older than you. Need to sit them down and basically tell them that they get their shit together. They are well past being adults and need to start taking accountability. I had this conversation with myself as I was basically aimless. But some caring friends kind of sat me down and basically said, “hey get your ass in gear.”
Some guys are losers. You’re not their father. Don’t expect to be able to save every loser just because they were friends once upon a time. It gets worse a lot of the time for guys like that. It sucks, some of my friends succeeded some didn’t. The ones that struggled eventually all bailed so they could be around others with similar problems.
This type of thinking and behavior is normal. The road laid ahead is a decision to walk on or not and the outcomes can be very similar. Life is meant to be what you make of it.
I bet they feel like they’re failing more than they’re succeeding and powerless to change their circumstances. That’s where my defeatism and cynicism came from.
Im 37 now. I met my now wife when I was 30. I was a nothing peon at my job, and two years ago I got a 6 figure offer. It’s more common than you think. I’m not special. It can happen to anyone 🙂 just be kind, be smart, try hard, and enjoy social hobbies.
“Losers for lack of a better word”
Sounds to me like your friends aren’t losers, they are going through a bout of depression. It happens.
Your reaction to it reminds me of how my father reacted when I was depressed. Calling me a loser and lazy, and just pouring gasoline on the fire that was my depression.
My advice.
Have some empathy for your friends man.
Talk to them about seeing a mental health professional. I started seeing an LPC. It took time, but she helped me turn my life around by helping me through the things that were causing my depression.
Sounds like they are trying to put out your spark as well. Crabs in a bucket. Ignore them and do what you want anyway.
You both need a shift in mind. Run the numbers and probability says we all won’t have kids, a big career or whatever else. Some people fall through the cracks. Sometimes its on them, sometimes its not, sometimes its a combination.
Anyone young in covid got affected in some way. My mom had freinds whose kids lost the chance to play in their sports finale. That could have been a trophy and they never got the chance to win it due to bad luck.
If they can still afford their own meals, pursue personal hobbies, and have time to hang out with family/freinds/loved ones, they are still doing pretty good and beleiving thats living life as a loser, even if your older, is not mentally healthy.
After high school, everyone evolves differently. It’s rare, and probably not recommended, to not grow apart. You have your own journey, so do they. My friend group is still together, but we have our own successes and failures. Accepting that you might have to leave them behind one day is just how life goes.
Ditch them and move on.
They’re like crabs in a bucket at this point.
1.) Don’t judge too much. The stability and success everyone thinks they have is much, much more tenuous than they imagine (unless you have 10’s of millions). I feel like people who got a job out of college, and kept working without interruption save for a vacation “don’t get” a shit load of life… good and bad.
2.) Why do they feel they need to do something “great”? Being alive is great. It’s a literal miracle. Greatness doesn’t come from a flash or burst of energy, it comes from small things over time. You can keep great aspirations as part of a personal passion, but you can’t let it get in the way of being a man (whatever that means to you). Satisfying that second part is a requirement, I think, for doing something “great”.
Get to the bottom of that question maybe. And perhaps try to understand what could make you feel that way? What would have to matter to you for you to say “I would have to be strong to not fall into that thinking because I can see why I might.”
Sorry it’s late writing this so I hope there’s something valuable in there. Wishing you the best
I am 58, I got married and dropped out of college at 20, I started farming at 27, opened a trucking company at 34, when I was 45, I was farming 1100 acres, had 14 trucks running 48 states, and I employed 16 men, I was making 7 figures. Then on January 22nd, 2012, I caught my wife cheating; everything had to be auctioned off, everyone had to be fired to satisfy the terms of the divorce.
I have worked for 3.50 an hour, and I have made millions yearly, to what end is it all for? If your bros are happy and earn enough to live and not be a burden on you are anyone else and are happy let them be. If you are seeking more affluent friends that is on you not them, let them be. I can assure you nobody on their death bed wished they had worked more, I missed so many birthdays, parties, piano recitals, and band competitions all because I was chasing the almighty dollar, it is not worth it if they are making enough to live on.
Stop being their friend. If they have changed and you do not like who they’ve become, you do not owe it to your friend to maintain the friendship. However, you do owe it to yourself to make a clean break.
Oh yea. This is just part of life. Happened to half my friend group. They would let the smallest shit throw their life into chaos. At some point you just gotta walk away.
It depends on what exactly you mean by refusing to grow or change. If they don’t treat others well, then they really do need to grow up.
If you just mean that they aren’t ambitious, then that’s totally different.
I mean they may have health problems mental or physical or maybe even didn’t have the same life advantages others have. My buddy had a full ride paid on his parents dime to the best college in the state, never had to work while in college. Meanwhile, he judged me because I was trying to keep my car together as my physical health fell apart and doctors wanted me to quit working at 29. I struggled, survived, but am no where near where he is in life. He cut me out for not being successful enough. Granted, I don’t know why I expected loyalty from someone who couldn’t be loyal to their wife but I genuinely thought this guy was my brother until he got an amazing job directly out of college and I was struggling to survive. Hell I didn’t even have a BAD job, my field wasn’t fast food or anything that’s genuinely frowned on, I just was not killing it like he was.
Cut the fat and move on already.
Man, I just turned 31. I don’t have many friends. The older you get, people don’t hold the same values anymore, that’s okay, that’s life. Up to you to accept that or not.