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They don’t want to see anyone be successful but themselves. If somebody is better than them at something, they compensate for their insecurity, jealousy and inferiority by putting others down.
Mine definitely wanted me to fail even though he’d never admit it. He pretty much sabotaged everything I did or trashed me to anyone who liked me. Then got pleasure when it worked.
Mine have actively tried to make me fail by things like preventing me from joining extra curricular activities in school, discouraging me from getting a job in my teen years and being financially irresponsible go support their addictions rather than save any money for me and my siblings to go to college. Luckily, I’m a very determined and stubborn person, I got a scholarship and took out a shit ton of student loans.
Everything they did was a notch against me being a productive and successful individual. I did it anyway. Now they use me as rationale to say that they are good parents, as an example to their friends, my mother even said on my convocation day from my undergrad, that it’s a big day for HER. They take credit for my accomplishments, as though the way they raised me made it possible for me to do all the things I’ve done, but I know I’ve done everything I have in spite of them.
They want to keep you down so you never surpass them, and when you do, they act as though thats what they’ve wanted all along. Every normal parent wants better for their child than what they had, according to my mother. Only after they’ve escaped every tactic to keep them down, that is.
How Narcissists see their children is not like how you expect a parent should see their children.
The idea of parenting is that you are responsiblke for this little life, correct? Your job is to raise them, educate them, prepare them for the world and help them launch into a successful adult life.
That’s not what kids are to Narcissists.
To a Narcissist, kids are defined based on their immediate needs. They are angry? Kids are a consequence-free way to vent that anger. Narcissists need something done? kids are free labor. Narcissists want to reinforce their self-image? notrhing better than a kid to make into a little mini-me!
Sometimes kids are competition. Sometimes they are there to be at fault for things so Narcissists can successfully remain blameless. Sometimes they exist for the Narcissist to live vicariously through, an extension of themselves.
There’s nothing long-term with Narcissists. They don’t plan anything with regards to their kids. They just use them as needed or as convenient. Sometimes, when they no longer are, they discard them. They don’t bother teaching things, because THEY already know these things, so they don’t understand why their kids DON’T.
This also means that Narcissists wants mutually exclusive things for their kids. Sure they want them to be successful, because that would beneift them, but they also want them to fail, because that proves they are superior. They want their kids to be independent and not require their resources or effort, but they also want them dependent on them and helpless without them. They want their kids to hate, fear, love and worship them equally and all at the same time.
Mine didn’t set me up for failure so much as enforce a very NARROW definition of success. That definition was either become some high paid professional (to support her forever) or a trophy wife (arguable the oldest profession IMHO) – neither of which appealed to me in the least.
In my case, they supported my education and I believe they genuinely wished for my academic and professional success.
However, even if we assume that’s 100% true, it doesn’t excuse the verbal and emotional abuse, objectification, neglect, and many other boundary violations.
Which is ultimately why I significantly reduced contact, and with my nmom in particular, even though there were some positive aspects about my upbringing among the negatives.
Academic and professional success aside, I’ve struggled significantly in other areas of my life due to those negatives, and to this day it’s apparent to me that my nmom doesn’t care much about how her behavior has affected me or my family, which (sadly) reinforces that I made the right decision in reducing contact.
Her POV seems much more focused on how she’s become the victim of estrangement, which of course includes complaining about it (getting “support”) to anyone in the family or her friends who will listen, yet further reinforcing that I made the right choice.
They want us to depend on them for the rest of their lives so that when they die, we are just a worn out husk of what we used to be. They want us to need them, so they can have the control and power to say “no” to us.
They need to project their insecurities n superiority over someone. Step on your head to feel superior n remind them that they will never go back to their weak self anymore. You are their supply. Never ever be gullible n believe that they want the best for you esp if you are a scapegoat. They need you to maintain their identity. I had to face this truth myself n it was painful. But it allowed me to make the decision to go NC with them n live for myself.
Because you will be less under their control. You might gain independence or see them for who they really are. You might surpass them and they see themselves as superior to you.
The problem with their own children amongst many narcissists is that they both want them to succeed so they can stand behind them and bask in third party success (that happened in spite of, not with the help of), but they also want them to fail so they can feel better (superior) about themselves.
They can’t stand the idea that you might possibly be more successful that them by any measure and in fact feel mortally threatened by that very idea. They only want you to succeed in what they want in the way that they want so that they claim that your success actually belongs to them.
In my case destroying my life was an unconsidered and not cared about side effect of the manipulative and controlling behaviour. They didn’t deliberately do it but didn’t care so didn’t care.
Because, if you’re succesful you can cut them off easily.
They can’t be the victim if you’re succesful.
If you’re a failure, you’ll always need them and other people will always feel sorry for them, as they believe EvErYtHiNg ThEy DiD fOr YoU at face value.
They can also force you to help them out, you’ll need them too. You can’t say no.
If you have a job, a family and a normal life, your job and your own family come first.
I think my parents love the idea of having a successful child so they can brag about how they’re good parents – but I think they fear the loss of control more, so they end up going for sabotaging behaviors.
They want you to be successful, not out of the goodness of their own hearts but because it’s part of their end game. They want you to be successful because it means they can benefit off of you when the time comes. Something they can use against you whenever you feel like the way they treat you is unfair.
An example of this is the “I/We raised you.” tactic to make you loosen up your boundaries.
They think they are the best thing to ever exist so they don’t want anyone around them to be better at life than them, otherwise they have to face what a failure they actually are.
My Ndad loved to see us fail at something and then pretend to be a superhero cleaning up our mess. It felt like the mafia or something—I’ll clean up this mess for you, as long as you do x,y,z. Or he would make up a problem and claim a solution if you sold your soul to him in some way. “Your car is unreliable(it’s not), so we’re gonna offer you your mother’s car(because the car dealership isn’t going to give us enough money for it)and you can pay us back in monthly installments(your tied to us financially for the next two years.” I hate how subtle it felt. Like most people might not even understand how insidious a simple offer like that is when he also yells and intimidates and controls all day everyday.
Nope. Cause then you’ll start thinking you’re better than them and they can’t have that. They have to always be more successful, but still reserve the right to shame you and complain that you’re not succeeding the way they think you should.
for my parents it was a form of control and forced dependence. they would say that she wanted me to be independent (get a liscense, more hours at work, a car, etc..) but when it came down to doing those things they wouldnt. because if i had those things i wouldnt be as dependent on them and they couldnt control me as much.
I’m almost 40. Decided to get out of working in warehouses. Started a free online computer science course a couple weeks ago. Am enjoying it quite a lot. Was watching one of the lectures in the lounge room, mum comes down to have her dinner. I usually pause whatever I’m watching while she’s around cos she wants to chat. This time I decided that the lecture is more important. She would talk, I would pause and rewind. After the 5th interruption, asks what am I watching? Tell her. “Why don’t you go do it at TAFE?” (Australia’s version is community college I guess?) “because I can’t work and go TAFE” “work and do night classes like everyone else does” “yeah, but this is a free course from Harvard. It’s better than TAFE. Plus I can watch with bro (his career is programming) so he can explain stuff and we can talk about it” “do you get a certificate?” “Yes, you get accreditation for completing the course” “but you won’t be able to find a job without a degree” “mum, that’s not how it works anymore, they care more about what you can do, than a piece of paper, plus bro might be able to help me get a foot in the door”
“You’re too old to start doing this”.
Haven’t spoken to her in 2 days. She couldn’t say ‘im worried you’re starting too late and won’t be able to find work’s, nope, it was a direct fact that I’m too old to start.
Good job giving me support mum.
“Don’t project yourself onto them.” Hammer that into your head. Repeat it three times a day when you wake up and when you go to sleep.
They have a mental illness. Compare it to autism. Their brains are literally formed differently, and their thought process and reactions are significantly abnormal.
If you try to compare it to yourself, it’s just not going to make sense, and you’ll go around in circles because you’re always trying to find justification for something that was never based in logic, reason, or forethought.
Unfortunately, that child incurred a debt simply by being born and inconveniencing the parents. The expectations levied against an infant begins immediately. The child’s failure to resolve the parents problems, failure to care for themself, failure to single-handedly evolve into a tiny well adjusted adult and the actual incurred costs of childhood: it’s all owed back plus interest. That child must fail because being even fractionally better than the parents means they were somehow less than.
I wish as the eldest daughter of a POS Nmom I had a trick to even the playing field. But at 30 with years of therapy and lots more to go unfortunately the short answer is no.
You are not a person to a narcissist, you have no autonomy. You are not a person, you are either an NPC or an accessory; exist to serve or further them or their goals. Therefore your success in any form is a direct threat to them. If it’s not theirs its wrong or they want it, if they can’t have it no one can. To them there is nothing worse then YOU of all people having it, because you are not them but you are close enough to them that their pride can not handle it. So therefore, because you are close to them and have the nerve of not being able to read their ever changing mind you must suffer.
I get what your asking and have wondered the same myself. After all LOGIC would dictate that since they use you and live through you and your accomplishments that yes, they would want you to be successful; a shining example of their genius or whatever. Sadly what is the most difficult to remember (because we have been raised to be empathy machines, to pick up on the slightest variation in their mood and adapt accordingly in order to survive) is that these people absolutely DO NOT OPERATE ON LOGIC. They are inconsist in their own facts, logic, views, all of it. Which is why whenever you try to have a conversation with them you leave with 3rd degree logically whiplash wondering how you ended up apologizing for something completely unrelated to whatever it was you when in to talk about.
Let me give you an example! Have you ever noticed how you, despite being told you lack all intelligence, skill, common sense or whatever for a majority of your time with them, you also just so happen to magically be the ONLY person capable of solving whatever EXACT problem they have all of a sudden? Now, logic would dictate that were you actually as useless as they make you feel all of the time, then you would therefore be the last person they would choose/force to handle whatever dramatic problem they have. So how does this happen then? Good question! There are a variety of ways but I’ll just list a few:
1.) We seek opertunities to prove ourselves, to ourselves, to them, to the world that we are not what they tell us they are. It’s almost a reflex of having them in our lives unfortunately and it takes time and help to unlearn. Even after they are out of our lives we have to unlearn the reflexes our bodies have taught ourselves in order to survive. Some we will, others we won’t. It is different for everyone, don’t let that discourage you. Freedom is always worth fighting for, and if you ever feel your resolve beginning to waver I’ve found spite can be a powerful motivator in the short term. I won’t pretend it’s the healthiest, but it does a hell of a job when you have nothing else to hold on to.
I will personally never give that bitch or anyone else the satisfaction of knowing that they are the reason I’m no longer here. I’ll never give her the satisfaction of being able to use my death to try and milk sympathy from anyone, because she absolutely would try; I refuse. After all the years I’ve suffered, after all she’s stolen from me she’ll not get another God damn thing from me.
Not the greatest life goal, but it keeps me going so right now that’s enough for me.
2.) As much as I loathe giving these people any form of acknowledgement, it requires a degree of something similar to intelligence to be able to manipulate people. I don’t like it but the fact is being able to recognize patterns, a brain is required. Manipulation is recognizing patterns and unfortunately for humanity they are good at that at the very least.
3.) Because narcissists are insufferable POS they can not keep friends for very long. So because you are more than likely stuck with them for one reason or another (parent, family member usually) they deem you the acceptable asset to inconvenience because more than likely you are in no position to refuse. They bank on that every FUCKING TIME. We hate it, but I promise you that the moment they no longer have that power over you is worth fucking holding out for.
This has gone on long enough, but TLDR they make a game with no way for you to win. It took me too many wasted years looking for hacks, loopholes, short cuts or whatever to try and adapt to a dysfunctional mindset and be able to do more than just survive. Its the difference between living and existing, learning the difference/being able to feel the difference only comes when your free. It’s a beautiful feeling to realize you can let go of the breathe you’ve been holding for longer than you can remember. Each one of you deserve to know that feeling.
If you need something to hold onto, then from one internet stranger to another in this moment know that someone sees you, someone out there knows that you have value not defined/determined by what you can provide for other people
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When you feel superior to other people and view them as inferior, you’re not interested in helping them do anything.
You’re interested in validating your superiority.
It’s the narc in them. Control. If you’re successful then they can’t play victim.
They don’t want to see anyone be successful but themselves. If somebody is better than them at something, they compensate for their insecurity, jealousy and inferiority by putting others down.
Mine definitely wanted me to fail even though he’d never admit it. He pretty much sabotaged everything I did or trashed me to anyone who liked me. Then got pleasure when it worked.
[removed]
Mine have actively tried to make me fail by things like preventing me from joining extra curricular activities in school, discouraging me from getting a job in my teen years and being financially irresponsible go support their addictions rather than save any money for me and my siblings to go to college. Luckily, I’m a very determined and stubborn person, I got a scholarship and took out a shit ton of student loans.
Everything they did was a notch against me being a productive and successful individual. I did it anyway. Now they use me as rationale to say that they are good parents, as an example to their friends, my mother even said on my convocation day from my undergrad, that it’s a big day for HER. They take credit for my accomplishments, as though the way they raised me made it possible for me to do all the things I’ve done, but I know I’ve done everything I have in spite of them.
They want to keep you down so you never surpass them, and when you do, they act as though thats what they’ve wanted all along. Every normal parent wants better for their child than what they had, according to my mother. Only after they’ve escaped every tactic to keep them down, that is.
Because they didn’t really want kids in the first place. They see their children as a burden.
How Narcissists see their children is not like how you expect a parent should see their children.
The idea of parenting is that you are responsiblke for this little life, correct? Your job is to raise them, educate them, prepare them for the world and help them launch into a successful adult life.
That’s not what kids are to Narcissists.
To a Narcissist, kids are defined based on their immediate needs. They are angry? Kids are a consequence-free way to vent that anger. Narcissists need something done? kids are free labor. Narcissists want to reinforce their self-image? notrhing better than a kid to make into a little mini-me!
Sometimes kids are competition. Sometimes they are there to be at fault for things so Narcissists can successfully remain blameless. Sometimes they exist for the Narcissist to live vicariously through, an extension of themselves.
There’s nothing long-term with Narcissists. They don’t plan anything with regards to their kids. They just use them as needed or as convenient. Sometimes, when they no longer are, they discard them. They don’t bother teaching things, because THEY already know these things, so they don’t understand why their kids DON’T.
This also means that Narcissists wants mutually exclusive things for their kids. Sure they want them to be successful, because that would beneift them, but they also want them to fail, because that proves they are superior. They want their kids to be independent and not require their resources or effort, but they also want them dependent on them and helpless without them. They want their kids to hate, fear, love and worship them equally and all at the same time.
The end result is dysfunction and destruction
Mine didn’t set me up for failure so much as enforce a very NARROW definition of success. That definition was either become some high paid professional (to support her forever) or a trophy wife (arguable the oldest profession IMHO) – neither of which appealed to me in the least.
In my case, they supported my education and I believe they genuinely wished for my academic and professional success.
However, even if we assume that’s 100% true, it doesn’t excuse the verbal and emotional abuse, objectification, neglect, and many other boundary violations.
Which is ultimately why I significantly reduced contact, and with my nmom in particular, even though there were some positive aspects about my upbringing among the negatives.
Academic and professional success aside, I’ve struggled significantly in other areas of my life due to those negatives, and to this day it’s apparent to me that my nmom doesn’t care much about how her behavior has affected me or my family, which (sadly) reinforces that I made the right decision in reducing contact.
Her POV seems much more focused on how she’s become the victim of estrangement, which of course includes complaining about it (getting “support”) to anyone in the family or her friends who will listen, yet further reinforcing that I made the right choice.
Nah. Mines a loser who can’t stand anyone doing better than her
They want us to depend on them for the rest of their lives so that when they die, we are just a worn out husk of what we used to be. They want us to need them, so they can have the control and power to say “no” to us.
They don’t want to be outshone by their own children. They are mad jealous of their children. Also they see children as peers.
They need to project their insecurities n superiority over someone. Step on your head to feel superior n remind them that they will never go back to their weak self anymore. You are their supply. Never ever be gullible n believe that they want the best for you esp if you are a scapegoat. They need you to maintain their identity. I had to face this truth myself n it was painful. But it allowed me to make the decision to go NC with them n live for myself.
Narcissists want to be able to control their children forever by making them dependent on them.
Because you will be less under their control. You might gain independence or see them for who they really are. You might surpass them and they see themselves as superior to you.
The problem with their own children amongst many narcissists is that they both want them to succeed so they can stand behind them and bask in third party success (that happened in spite of, not with the help of), but they also want them to fail so they can feel better (superior) about themselves.
They can’t stand the idea that you might possibly be more successful that them by any measure and in fact feel mortally threatened by that very idea. They only want you to succeed in what they want in the way that they want so that they claim that your success actually belongs to them.
In my case destroying my life was an unconsidered and not cared about side effect of the manipulative and controlling behaviour. They didn’t deliberately do it but didn’t care so didn’t care.
Because, if you’re succesful you can cut them off easily.
They can’t be the victim if you’re succesful.
If you’re a failure, you’ll always need them and other people will always feel sorry for them, as they believe EvErYtHiNg ThEy DiD fOr YoU at face value.
They can also force you to help them out, you’ll need them too. You can’t say no.
If you have a job, a family and a normal life, your job and your own family come first.
I think my parents love the idea of having a successful child so they can brag about how they’re good parents – but I think they fear the loss of control more, so they end up going for sabotaging behaviors.
They want you to be successful, not out of the goodness of their own hearts but because it’s part of their end game. They want you to be successful because it means they can benefit off of you when the time comes. Something they can use against you whenever you feel like the way they treat you is unfair.
An example of this is the “I/We raised you.” tactic to make you loosen up your boundaries.
Incapable of looking to the future or recognising the impacts of their actions
They’re jealous
They think they are the best thing to ever exist so they don’t want anyone around them to be better at life than them, otherwise they have to face what a failure they actually are.
My Ndad loved to see us fail at something and then pretend to be a superhero cleaning up our mess. It felt like the mafia or something—I’ll clean up this mess for you, as long as you do x,y,z. Or he would make up a problem and claim a solution if you sold your soul to him in some way. “Your car is unreliable(it’s not), so we’re gonna offer you your mother’s car(because the car dealership isn’t going to give us enough money for it)and you can pay us back in monthly installments(your tied to us financially for the next two years.” I hate how subtle it felt. Like most people might not even understand how insidious a simple offer like that is when he also yells and intimidates and controls all day everyday.
Nope. Cause then you’ll start thinking you’re better than them and they can’t have that. They have to always be more successful, but still reserve the right to shame you and complain that you’re not succeeding the way they think you should.
for my parents it was a form of control and forced dependence. they would say that she wanted me to be independent (get a liscense, more hours at work, a car, etc..) but when it came down to doing those things they wouldnt. because if i had those things i wouldnt be as dependent on them and they couldnt control me as much.
I’m almost 40. Decided to get out of working in warehouses. Started a free online computer science course a couple weeks ago. Am enjoying it quite a lot. Was watching one of the lectures in the lounge room, mum comes down to have her dinner. I usually pause whatever I’m watching while she’s around cos she wants to chat. This time I decided that the lecture is more important. She would talk, I would pause and rewind. After the 5th interruption, asks what am I watching? Tell her. “Why don’t you go do it at TAFE?” (Australia’s version is community college I guess?) “because I can’t work and go TAFE” “work and do night classes like everyone else does” “yeah, but this is a free course from Harvard. It’s better than TAFE. Plus I can watch with bro (his career is programming) so he can explain stuff and we can talk about it” “do you get a certificate?” “Yes, you get accreditation for completing the course” “but you won’t be able to find a job without a degree” “mum, that’s not how it works anymore, they care more about what you can do, than a piece of paper, plus bro might be able to help me get a foot in the door”
“You’re too old to start doing this”.
Haven’t spoken to her in 2 days. She couldn’t say ‘im worried you’re starting too late and won’t be able to find work’s, nope, it was a direct fact that I’m too old to start.
Good job giving me support mum.
“Don’t project yourself onto them.” Hammer that into your head. Repeat it three times a day when you wake up and when you go to sleep.
They have a mental illness. Compare it to autism. Their brains are literally formed differently, and their thought process and reactions are significantly abnormal.
If you try to compare it to yourself, it’s just not going to make sense, and you’ll go around in circles because you’re always trying to find justification for something that was never based in logic, reason, or forethought.
Unfortunately, that child incurred a debt simply by being born and inconveniencing the parents. The expectations levied against an infant begins immediately. The child’s failure to resolve the parents problems, failure to care for themself, failure to single-handedly evolve into a tiny well adjusted adult and the actual incurred costs of childhood: it’s all owed back plus interest. That child must fail because being even fractionally better than the parents means they were somehow less than.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ws87Ombk4NE
I look at it from a spiritual perspective and personally find this talk to be a good explanation of what drives them.
I wish as the eldest daughter of a POS Nmom I had a trick to even the playing field. But at 30 with years of therapy and lots more to go unfortunately the short answer is no.
You are not a person to a narcissist, you have no autonomy. You are not a person, you are either an NPC or an accessory; exist to serve or further them or their goals. Therefore your success in any form is a direct threat to them. If it’s not theirs its wrong or they want it, if they can’t have it no one can. To them there is nothing worse then YOU of all people having it, because you are not them but you are close enough to them that their pride can not handle it. So therefore, because you are close to them and have the nerve of not being able to read their ever changing mind you must suffer.
I get what your asking and have wondered the same myself. After all LOGIC would dictate that since they use you and live through you and your accomplishments that yes, they would want you to be successful; a shining example of their genius or whatever. Sadly what is the most difficult to remember (because we have been raised to be empathy machines, to pick up on the slightest variation in their mood and adapt accordingly in order to survive) is that these people absolutely DO NOT OPERATE ON LOGIC. They are inconsist in their own facts, logic, views, all of it. Which is why whenever you try to have a conversation with them you leave with 3rd degree logically whiplash wondering how you ended up apologizing for something completely unrelated to whatever it was you when in to talk about.
Let me give you an example! Have you ever noticed how you, despite being told you lack all intelligence, skill, common sense or whatever for a majority of your time with them, you also just so happen to magically be the ONLY person capable of solving whatever EXACT problem they have all of a sudden? Now, logic would dictate that were you actually as useless as they make you feel all of the time, then you would therefore be the last person they would choose/force to handle whatever dramatic problem they have. So how does this happen then? Good question! There are a variety of ways but I’ll just list a few:
1.) We seek opertunities to prove ourselves, to ourselves, to them, to the world that we are not what they tell us they are. It’s almost a reflex of having them in our lives unfortunately and it takes time and help to unlearn. Even after they are out of our lives we have to unlearn the reflexes our bodies have taught ourselves in order to survive. Some we will, others we won’t. It is different for everyone, don’t let that discourage you. Freedom is always worth fighting for, and if you ever feel your resolve beginning to waver I’ve found spite can be a powerful motivator in the short term. I won’t pretend it’s the healthiest, but it does a hell of a job when you have nothing else to hold on to.
I will personally never give that bitch or anyone else the satisfaction of knowing that they are the reason I’m no longer here. I’ll never give her the satisfaction of being able to use my death to try and milk sympathy from anyone, because she absolutely would try; I refuse. After all the years I’ve suffered, after all she’s stolen from me she’ll not get another God damn thing from me.
Not the greatest life goal, but it keeps me going so right now that’s enough for me.
2.) As much as I loathe giving these people any form of acknowledgement, it requires a degree of something similar to intelligence to be able to manipulate people. I don’t like it but the fact is being able to recognize patterns, a brain is required. Manipulation is recognizing patterns and unfortunately for humanity they are good at that at the very least.
3.) Because narcissists are insufferable POS they can not keep friends for very long. So because you are more than likely stuck with them for one reason or another (parent, family member usually) they deem you the acceptable asset to inconvenience because more than likely you are in no position to refuse. They bank on that every FUCKING TIME. We hate it, but I promise you that the moment they no longer have that power over you is worth fucking holding out for.
This has gone on long enough, but TLDR they make a game with no way for you to win. It took me too many wasted years looking for hacks, loopholes, short cuts or whatever to try and adapt to a dysfunctional mindset and be able to do more than just survive. Its the difference between living and existing, learning the difference/being able to feel the difference only comes when your free. It’s a beautiful feeling to realize you can let go of the breathe you’ve been holding for longer than you can remember. Each one of you deserve to know that feeling.
If you need something to hold onto, then from one internet stranger to another in this moment know that someone sees you, someone out there knows that you have value not defined/determined by what you can provide for other people
It helps them justify their feelings of inadequacy and anger, watching their kids struggle and fail