I’m reposting this because my husband made it a condition of going to therapy that I deleted the original post. We’ve been married for about a year now, but this happened last August/September. We had a nasty fight over Labor Day weekend, ending our camping trip early. I guess I’m asking for perspective or validation on it from outsiders. Kind of venting too.
My best friend lives in another state, and I don’t see her often. My husband hasn’t spent much time with her, only on two occasions over the course of a day or two. So they don’t know one another well. She has little kids, etc. When I was visiting her, she was sitting next to me, and overheard him call her a nickname on the call that she didn’t like. She asked me to speak to him about it to let her know that she didn’t like the nickname. I did that the same night before ending the call, letting him know that she doesn’t like it. It’s a nickname that he and I had been using just between us but since I see her rarely, it hadn’t come up yet. It’s cute! Nothing derogatory. I mostly think she just doesn’t like nicknames or things that are too cutesy.
It came up again a few weeks later. On the drive out to the site, he uses the nickname and I bring up again that she didn’t like it, and she asked me to let him know. We get into a discussion about it for about 30 minutes, during which he says things such as “I’m going to try it out around her anyway, just once, see how it goes.” “I want to hear from her why she doesn’t like it”. He said he’s curious about why she doesn’t like it, and wants to broach it with her for that reason.
I start feeling myself get pretty angry that he can’t respect this simple request, and the idea of him being disrespectful to her makes me feel incredibly upset. He said my request wasn’t clear, so we definitely disagree on that. I’m quiet for the next ~30 minutes in the car, and don’t really want to talk to him. I’m just kind of sitting and stewing in how the conversation went.
After some time, he mentions that he can tell I’m upset, and we get back into it. I start by letting him know I’m really upset about the conversation earlier. We argue for another ~hour and fifteen minutes until we reach our site. I tell him a lot of things during it, that it would be inconsiderate and she would find it rude if he asked her why she doesn’t like it. He gives an example where he calls her the name to ask her why she doesn’t like it. “Hey (nickname), why don’t you like (nickname)?” He then says “is she so fragile that I can’t have a humorous conversation with her?” because he finds that a humorous way to talk to her about it. I found that question insulting, although he says it wasn’t an insult because he “thinks fragility is ok”. It reads as an insult to me. I told him in the moment that it stung to hear him suggest that. I reminded him how strong I think she is.
During this whole argument, I was steaming mad. I kept reminding him that she asked to not be called that. It would be rude to bring it up with her, I don’t know if there’s some awful memory attached to it. He says that she’s welcome to just tell him she doesn’t want to share why.
The next day, he asks that I apologize for those 30 minutes in the car that I was quiet instead of doing any addressing of how he behaved during the argument. How upsetting it was for me to hear him say repeatedly that he was going to still call her the name and wanted to talk to her about it. He says that him calling her the name during a statement to ask her about why she doesn’t like it is different than calling her the name. That doesn’t make sense. It’s still saying “Hey (nickname)” That’s still using the name and I told him not to. He did agree at the end of Friday to not use it, but I was so upset in how the argument went. I felt like he wasn’t listening to me or trying to understand the request. That conversation should not have taken hours.
We didn’t really talk the rest of the day. I told him I don’t want to talk to him, and I think it’s fine that I was mad after how he handled such a simple and clear request. We left our trip early, and on the way home he also called me a bunch of things such as “coward”, that I “love to lie”, he said I’ve never once apologized to him (definitely not true, he’s admitted previously that he’s happy with how some of my apologies have gone), stubborn, ridiculous. He did agree at the end of the hours of arguing about it to not call her the name or bring it up with her, but I’m really upset with how he behaved during the argument, and how he spoke to me on the drive home.
We see a therapist on weekends every Sunday morning, and she said that my being quiet after the argument was the main issue over how he behaved. I’m genuinely failing to see it that way. I’ve since apologized for that time I was quiet when I was upset, and let him know I should have told him I need space instead of stewing.
He hasn’t apologized for anything. For calling me a coward (said I am one), for telling me I love to lie (he says it’s true), for not respecting the simple boundary, and he’s still angry at me and wants me to apologize for getting angry instead of “just having a rational discussion”.
Update: he sent me some nice-ish texts just a bit ago.
“You have a lot of anger. Even if I was ignoring you. Even if I was pressing an issue, you don’t need to respond with anger. I hope you find a way to start looking at yourself. Looking at how you can respond with more love and curiosity and simple communication, rather than anger.”
“I will totally try to “hear the ask” better.”
“I’m sorry for my part in not identifying the underlying asks sooner. It’s understandable that it was unpleasant for you because being ignored repeatedly would bother anyone. In the future, I’ll try to see the ask you’re making even if I don’t think I’ve heard the specific ask. I’ll do more “is this what you’re asking for?”
“I’m also sorry for any names I called you. We agreed that name calling isn’t ok. I’ll continue to try to honor that agreement.”
“I wasn’t ever arguing with you. You made it an argument. I was just trying to chat with you”
“I think for it to be bullying it has to be persistent over time.”
“You could choose discussion first. Your ask wasn’t clear”
“Getting mad instead of discussing calmly. You’ve never once apologized for that. You justify your anger. It seems like it’s righteous to you. You could choose to embrace the idea that you are the one getting yourself angry, not me getting you angry” He’s insistent that I shouldn’t get upset about hypotheticals. He’s done this before, given me upsetting hypotheticals, and been upset that I’m angry.
He’s insisting that he said I’m “being a coward” which is different than saying I’m a coward, and not name calling. It’s still insulting and he won’t own up to it. He’s “just stating facts” I wrote down what he said as he said it, because he does this often. He definitely said I’m a coward for not apologizing. He said “seems truth is painful, and sometimes it is relevant to the situation”
UPDATE:
So it’s been a few weeks since the initial argument happened. He was out of town for a week for work, didn’t apologize for anything from the initial argument, the insulting things he said, or how it was handled. Just reminded me before he left that he meant them. Then we get into our therapy session, and he tells me/therapist that he apologized for everything. But our only conversations all week were text, there were no apologies. I pulled up our messages and search for the word “sorry”. He then apologizes in therapy to save face after I pushed for it. And of course nothing from the therapist when I do that and show that he didn’t apologize. No mention from her about why he said he apologized when he didn’t. She never calls him out for anything, and I’m so sick of it.
We’re barely talking. His main issues are that I get angry and “drag up the past”. My main issues are a lack of accountability taking apologies, and speaking more nicely to me generally. We got into a massive fight a few nights ago, I recorded all of our arguments. And I’m glad I did. I later called him out three separate times when he tried to lie about what was said. The therapist said that’s unhealthy of me to do, which it is, but she should also have told him to see why I do it when it often proves he lies.
Last week he also turned off his phone without warning me. We live in a really bad neighborhood, and I was freaking out that something might have happened to him. I’ve never had this happen where my messages and calls don’t go through. I rarely call him, but only did when my texts weren’t sending. I finally emailed him, and he got back to me. But I told him if he ever is unreachable without warning again, that I’d leave him. Of course he got me to apologize for saying that. But I meant it. He has a family now, he can’t just disappear, I was really hurt by that. To his credit, he did apologize for doing it when I talked to him. I didn’t talk to him right away since he asked me to leave him alone all week via text.
He agreed to see a new therapist with me, but ONLY if I delete our entire message history so I can’t “drag up the past” and we can “start fresh”. But there are countless times that I’ve pulled up texts to show that he’s lying about having said something right to my face. I’m erring on the side of doing it, only because at least I will know what was said/occurred even when he’s lying to me about it, and maybe we’ll finally get a decent therapist.
He’s really stuck on the idea that things are only hurtful to me because of my worldview. He never acknowledges that something wasn’t nice, generally. And that would mean a lot to me.
Comments
This is not a manners disagreement. Your husband is/was clearly enraged that a woman dared to tell him not to do something. The fact he planned to still call your friend the nickname and demand that she explain why she didn’t like it, screams him thinking he is superior and gets to decide if her reasoning is good enough.
I honestly don’t know why you’re still with your husband. He sounds deeply controlling and unpleasant.
I dont understand exactly what you are asking here, but being lied to all the time must be very frustrating… as well as the original argument where I wouldn’t say you were 100% right but you were a lot more right than him – he should respect your friend wish, but he should also be able to ask her why she doesn’t like the nickname (as long as he doesn’t call her the nickname in the conversation). Your husband sees himself as a perfectly reasonable person and blames you for all the difficulties you both have, Ive been acused of that by my wife many times as well and there is no easy solution to that besides honest and difficult conversations between you two, like the therapy thing. However in those conversations he would need to account for his part in your problems and really understand and empathise with what you say. I can see that you are doing that with him, understanding his side, taking account etc but from what you said he does not do it. This relationship is doomed if he doesn’t learn to do that, but this is outside your control – you can only establish your boundaries and expectations and see if he is willing to do his part, you cannot force him to do it.
Jesus when two people who once loved each other spiral out of control over a nickname of a friend. Its quiet the childish tantrum behavior from both of you. You both need to stop and think of the reason you married each other in the first place. Is it that hard that you have to fight each other over complete nonsense? I’m lost for words and the therapists probably are to. Stop fighting with each other over bullshit, this is not a good marriage and won’t last.
I read enough, but not all of it.
Your husband is a shitty person. That’s the bottom line.
Nicknames are fun and cute… But when the other person doesn’t like it… You drop it. Respect their request.
But… Your husband likes to push buttons, intentionally get a rise out of people, likes to pick at them even though he knows for a fact it bothers them. Why should I have to stop calling her that? … Because she asked for it, that’s all the answer you need to hear. End of discussion.
Yet… He needed to keep going and going and going. Probably hated the fact that someone corrected him, needed to stand up for himself and challenge it. How dare someone challenge me? I need a more justified answer if you want me to stop.
That’s probably a line of thinking to explore in therapy.
And cherry on top…
Wow, you’re pissed off at me… Well, I am mad at you being in a mood. I need to figure out something I can weaponize against you here since I know I am in the wrong. If you’re going to be mad at me, well I am mad at you for that.
Another line of thinking to explore in therapy.
Also… Fuck that. Drag up the past. We need to talk about this behaviour so it can be corrected. You don’t just get to say “Fresh start babe? Sweep it under the rug so I don’t have to be held accountable for it, what do you say we pretend it never happened?”
You leave the past behind you when its actually resolved. All of this is unresolved.
No point in therapy if you don’t want to be held accountable for actions. That is what therapy is suppose to do. Talk about what went wrong so we can avoid it in the future. Why bother showing up to therapy if we can reset button right now and pretend like nothing ever happened.
We drag up the past because the past is unresolved. Problems need resolution and understanding. He don’t give a flying F to understand the situation. Rather you drop it.
Your husband has serious problems. I wouldn’t be shocked if these therapy sessions somehow turn into him weaponizing what’s discussed. Never actually into the idea of dropping the confrontational attitude.
Your husband sucks… Id suggest personal therapy for him on top. But he won’t like that because why me? Why should I have to do anything about this… That’s been his attitude through your entire post.
He is too confrontational, too narcissistic, too defensive, zero empathy… He doesn’t care to work with you. Rather go to war. That’s his vibe. Communication means challenging him and he can never be wrong in his simple mind.
You two (mainly him), need serious professional help to have hope here. He has a massive superiority complex and that will be the death of your marriage.
Hell no. You need to reconsider your marriage.
Your husband is using the DARVO tactic on you, and I am gobsmacked that your therapist appears to be allowing it.
You made a simple request of him at your friend’s request; don’t use the nickname. He should have respected that, instead he insisted that he would continue to use it & he doubled down even more by saying he needed a reason from her, that she needed to explain herself.
Her reasons are none of her business, and he was being disrespectful & rude expecting her to justify it to him.
To then flip it around & demand an apology from you for getting upset with him? And to call you names on top of that? Hell no.
He is blaming all of this on you, while taking no accountability for himself. He is trying to gaslight you & your therapist is sitting by and allowing it.
He is trying to blackmail you by demanding you delete the messages, which are proof of his lies.
Why are you fighting so hard to save a relationship with someone who is treating you like this?
Your man is actually not nice. He’s simply not a nice person. Calling someone a name they don’t like is the most childish bullying there is. Please don’t put yourself through trying to be happy with a person who at their core is simply just not a nice person. It’s exhausting. Having a husband who is just baseline nice is a night and day difference, I highly recommend it.
Your man is actually not nice. He’s simply not a nice person. Calling someone a name they don’t like is the most childish bullying there is. Please don’t put yourself through trying to be happy with a person who at their core is simply just not a nice person. It’s exhausting. Having a husband who is just baseline nice is a night and day difference, I highly recommend it.
Leave him and your therapist.
You’re allowed to be angry. You’re allowed to be silent.
What’s not allowed? Name calling, manipulation, gaslighting, lying. Everything your husband is doing.
BTW is your therapist through church?
Why are you still with this guy? You done post after post for months about how horrid he is to you. How many reddit opinions do you need to hear telling you to leave him?
Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men [PDF]
Read this. Stop going to therapy with him because he’s just using the therapist to keep you in line.
You made one minor request of him, and he blew up your entire visit with your friend on purpose. And the worst thing is, I think you only noticed because you were standing up for your friend and not yourself.
Your husband is a controlling asshole. And your therapist is trash.
Girl. Are you ok? I’m genuinely asking.
I read your other posts. You know this man is a narcissist and manipulator. And I’m going to be honest with you, because of those things, he knows how to “win” and always make you upset and to look like you’re unhinged.
I have people in my life with some of these tendencies and the only thing that’s worked is treating them exactly the same so they’re the ones who seem crazy, and repeatedly and aggressively checking them. But it’s exhausting and robs you of your peace. This man is almost 40. He’s likely not going to change. Please think about whether this is a relationship worth being in. It would be better to be alone than with someone who treats you this way.
ALL of this bullshit could have been avoided EASILY in two steps
You: She doesn’t like that nickname
Him: OK sorry, I won’t use it again then.
Conflict over. This what a good person would have done, EASILY, and you wouldn’t have had to write this increasingly horrifying novel about escalating rage.
Your husband is a jerk. I fail to see why you’re so hung up about something which happened nearly a year ago. If you’re unhappy, which it sounds, stop being married to a jerk
He is a POS.
She didn’t like the nickname and asked for it too be dropped moving forward. Anyone who is a decent person accepts that someone might not like a nickname. You do not for a second push the subject with her, nor do you continue with the nickname.
Everything else makes you a POS and a red flag. How hard is it to let it go? And hours of fighting with you..? That’s a 30 sec conversation at tops then it’s done and life goes on.
I don’t know what his problem is but he sure do have issues, because making a issue about a none issue, over and over, standing his ground, is a huge issue.
Show him the post when you have enough comments where 100% will say he is a POS.
You told your husband not to call your friend that nickname because she doesn’t like it.
What isn’t perfectly clear with that statement?
Don’t delete your texts; you may need them when you file for divorce.
Taking into account this & your other posts… you’re not right for each other & it’s time you admitted that to yourself instead of just to Reddit & separate.
He’s never going to change, he blows everything up & twists & turns, he’s just not nice, don’t let him drag you down any further
Your husband is an asshole and if you were my friend I would always be worried about your safety.
No one who is a safe person denies a request like, “please don’t use that name for my friend again.” At best this is the guy who a bunch of people love at work but a sizable minority of colleagues say, “Fuck that guy,” whenever his name is mentioned. He’s a bully and he’s bullying you. If you have kids with this person he will bully them.
I agree with most every comment on here, your husband just sucks. And I really think that by confronting her with this nickname BS he was attempting ruin your friendship. He would call her the nickname, then when she got upset he would demand to know why, they would have a disagreement about it and he would demand you take his side and end the friendship or you’re being disloyal to him. Yeah, this guy’s red flag is so big you can see it from space.
Not only do I think you have a hand problem, but a therapist problem. Not talking to someone for half an hour because you’re upset isn’t life altering, it’s not like your have him the books shoulder or silent treatment for days, you were taking time to decompress in the moment, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
As for your husband, he seems like the kind of guy that likes to play devil’s advocate because he thinks it’s fun. Instead of respecting a simple request and simple boundary he feels compelled to stomp all over that boundary, and if you or your friend get upset about it, well then you’re just being “fragile” and “emotional” for no reason.
That behavior and attitude is disgusting.
And then he decides to insult you, tell you you’re a liar (which makes zero sense in the context of this argument), and throw it in your face that you’re “dragging up the past”.
My ex was like this. He would say his piece, and then declare he was done discussing it. Didn’t matter if I got to say mine. He was done and I was expected to shut up about it otherwise I was “being dramatic/creating drama”, if I tried to explain my feelings or opinion on something, he would literally walk away, because once he was done work his side, he didn’t care what anyone else had to say about it.
It was exhausting and one of the reasons the relationship ended.
Your husband has zero respect for basic boundaries and somehow that’s everyone else’s fault.
Just FYI OP couples counselling is not recommended for abuse, which this 100% is
My problem with this is that he thinks he clearly knows better what’s good for her. He can’t accept that she doesn’t like it and move the fuck on which would be respectful adult behavior. He needs to argue with her about it because he doesn’t see her as an equal who doesn’t need to explain her reasoning to him. It’s honestly infuriating. You didn’t do anything wrong. Your therapist also sucks btw.
You need a new (better) therapist. I’d have walked out when she said you were wrong to record without also admonishing him for lying (attempted gaslighting).
He purposely enrages you and expects you to apologize for his success.
You deserve better.
Imagine spending a whole year dwelling on an argument over a nickname.
You are not at fault here. But you are married to an abusive asshole. The fact you have resorted to recording arguments so that he can’t gaslight you into making you feel like you’re losing your mind says it all.
You want this for your kids too? You should be running a million miles away from this man.
He sounds so toxic and a complete asshole.
He doesn’t respect boundaries. He feels entitled to have his way. And he’s using therapy against you.
You need individual therapy, not couples therapy. Do you actually think couples therapy has changed the way you care for each other? Or does it feel more like he’s using the “rules” to still run roughshod over you but in a way that’s harder to defend yourself. It’s a great point in the book “why does he do that” by Lundy Bancroft”
And regarding manners. You can be the least polite person in the world. He’s still not entitled to tell you how to act or speak. Fundamentally (and obviously he can think what he likes about it). So remember that. It’s up to you.
Omigod why are you still with him?
If he was actually being honest with you, your therapist, and himself you wouldn’t have to pull up texts and drag up the past, now would you? So this all actually hinges on him being honest and upfront. If there are no lies to call him out on you won’t have to call him out on the lies 🤷🏼♀️
Read and understand what people have written for you. Think carefully what it means to you to hear you are not in the wrong. I hope it steels your resolve and you get a divorce. Marriage is not supposed to be this difficult, right? If he does not make you happy, why stay? The situation you started the post with happened almost a year ago, and you say the wedding happened one year ago. Am I right in calculating that this fight took place within the first month of your marriage? Gurrl, it that is accurate, yikes. It definitely does not feel like your marriage is a good one. Admit it you made a mistake (nobody is perfect), and start corrective manouvers to end it. I wish you all the best!
Updateme
OP, your husband is abusive, and looking at your past posts, a cheater too. Couples therapy doesn’t work where narcissists are involved, it just gives them new language to weaponise.
This sounds like an absolutely miserable situation for you, I really think you’d be a lot happier of you went to ‘visit’ close family or friends and didn’t go back. You only get one life, it can be a lot sweeter than this.
Oh girl. This isn’t about a nickname. It’s not even about apologies.
This marriage is toxic. He is toxic. He’s controlling, he enjoys hurting you, and he’s totally gaslighting you and making you feel like the crazy ‘angry’ one. Classic narcissist abuse: he’s throwing back at you and making the argument about YOUR reaction to his abuse.
Run run run run run.
It honestly sounds like you just married an asshole. My oldest brother was like this, just hammering away and refusing to let things drop until people relented. He was also divorced twice.