I (31f) have two kids (11 and 9) with my ex (33m). We were never married and our relationship was never very good so breaking up wasn’t the worst thing that could’ve happened. For a while it surprised me that he left first. I always suspected his wife (32f) was around before he left me. I know the two of them told me they were a couple less than five months after we broke up and in that same conversation they told me they were a team and everything going forward had to include her because the kids would know her as their second mom. They told me to get used to hearing her called mom because they would not stop it and would actively encourage it.
I brought them to court and the judge added a clause about calling a stepparent/partner mom or dad. This pissed them off but they still tried to show off what they could do as a couple for the kids that I couldn’t as a single mom. Ex’s wife also told me that she would be the mother to their other siblings and she was going to give my ex a bunch of babies and that would win the kids over to her even more. She said she would be the preferred mom even if they never got to call her that. Or she said maybe they would and my kids would hate me for separating them if I got so jealous.
I spent a lot of years documenting and trying to stay calm for the sake of my kids. We used a co-parenting app for communication and they still sent messages through that about how she’d be favored and things like that. They were scolded a number of times over it.. A few years ago I put my kids in therapy because I knew they picked up on the issues between the adults.
My ex’s wife never got pregnant. I know I’ll sound petty when I say this but it made me so happy after all the gloating and said the kids would prefer her because she’d give them a lot more siblings. For a while I noticed she was looking more and more depressed and desperate when no babies seemed to be born.
Around July last year my ex told me the kids would be with me for longer and he would work out a make up schedule later. I found out 6 weeks later that his wife had tried to take her own life and was in the hospital and that it was triggered by the news she could not have biological children. She and my ex also told people that it was made worse by my son not drawing her in a picture of his family that same day at summer camp.
I filed with the courts for a change in the custody agreement temporarily and it was granted. She had to complete certain steps for the kids to go back into the house with her. My ex and her were unhappy but since they used my kids as an excuse I did not want to take any chances with them. She completed all the steps and custody was returned to 50-50 in February of this year.
Back in June my ex suggested the three of us sit down and talk some things through. I told him anything that needed to be said could be done via the app. He said face to face was better. That they wanted to improve the relationships so that she could be an equal parent and family member to the kids. Both of them started info dumping about her inability to have bio kids and how it hurts her to know the kids don’t see her as family. How they want us to put away the animosity so we can all be present and there for the kids and that she realizes it won’t happen while she hates my guts and wishes I would give the kids to her.
I started ignoring the requests after first saying no because I do not think this will be a good idea and I do not trust them. They do not want us to do it over the app. The lucky thing for me is it’s all in the app and there are some concerning comments like they would hope I would let go of the no calling a stepparent or partner mom or dad rule and things of that nature. When I did not reply and agree to meet up my ex started saying I was not putting the kids first and I needed to stop using everything against them in court.
AITA?
Comments
NTA and if they don’t want their actions to come up in court, they should stop doing obnoxious things that an authority figure can see are wrong.
NTA. Honestly, I would take them back to court. This lady doesn’t sound stable and your ex is enabling it. And I say this as a woman with infertility.
Well karma is a b****, they got what they deserve for treating you so badly, protect your children !
NTA. I don’t think there’s any coming back after that behavior. You’re also not guilty of letting your children down despite what your ex is saying as it’s in the children’s best interest to not be around such an unstable person/people. Good call not meeting in person. They’ve proven themselves untrustworthy and horrid people. Keep communication strictly through the app
Funny when the tables turn. They had years to make this work. They chose otherwise. Kids are not stupid they know what’s going on and that’s why they don’t like her or accept her. Play stupid games – win stupid prizes. Don’t meet w them. It has nothing to do with you. If it’s too much go back to court for custody adjustment. Good luck OP! Updateme
Not your problem. Keep everything in the app and let them deal with their shit. One doesn’t become a parent by enforcing it on the children. Even if they really really really want it. They wanted to push you out of your kids life and they will be paying a price for it.
NTA
I totally agree with you. Nothing they have done seems to be for the sake of improving the lives of the kids and all about improving her life. You don’t owe her anything. The only reason they would want to be off the app is because they know they are going to ask for something unreasonable.
Oh she gambled big and its not paying off.
She isn’t stable. The best thing you can do is ignore anything that isn’t a direct discussion about the children that requires action on your part. Allow them to keep hanging themselves with the rope. Documenting everything and make sure you have a camera on your home because I will not be shocked when they show up “to talk.” And keep the kids in therapy. Eventually you’ll have what you need ti require he has supervised visits alone. Or full custody.
NTA
NTA. Just because your ex’s wife can’t have children of her own doesn’t mean she gets to take yours, she’s not entitled to other people’s kids. Your children are not her emotional support animals, she is not a second mom, she is not anything of your kids except their sperm donor’s bedwarmer.
This is parental alienation, gather all evidence and screw them over in court OP. These people sound unhinged and I’d be afraid they’d kidnap the kids or that woman would go and commit suicide with the kids in tow! I’m honestly scared for you and your kids.
You’ve already given them a clear and reasonable way to communicate. If they choose not to use it, that’s on them. You’re not obligated to walk into a situation that’s likely to devolve into more conflict just to make them feel better.
You’re doing it the right way OP by forcing the use of the app and not allowing any face to face contact. The thing is that eventually she’s going to do something stupid to try to force the issue and at that point you may finally have enough to get a permanent change in custody.
NTA I know it’s bad of me to say but there’s a reason she hasn’t been able to have kids and yes some of it is biological but some of it is karma for what she’s tried to do to your kids. You don’t involve kids into adult problems. She tried to weaponize your kids against you but it didn’t work. She would have made a terrible mother and the gods saw that.
NTA
I certainly hope they will do some f up so the court can give them more than warning.
You should not meet up with your ex and his wife, who is mentally unstable. If you had agreed, your ex will use that against you in court. Your ex is doing his wife’s bidding and it is not to have her as an equal parent but more likely to replace you as parent. Neither your ex nor his wife have your kids’ best interests at heart. You are putting your kids first by sticking to the app for all communications. NTA
NTA given how unstable they sound you need to have everything documented. Frankly your ex might try record to that ‘private’ meeting and use it against you.
The only time you should see each other face to face is during drop off and that should be a polite hello/goodbye. Or if he is serious about better relationships with a family counselor so it documented.
Let them know that the only way you will do this not over the app is in front of a court-appointed psychologist who they must sign a release to report pertinent information to the court. The psychologist must have access to all pertinent information since the divorce including the information from the parenting app and the inpatient hospital stay for mental health. Make it seem like you’re willing to do this, but you absolutely need safeguards because you’re right, they’re gonna try and bully you.
Edit to add: NTA
Shit like this is exactly why the app exists. Stick to your guns.
UpdateMe!
NTA
The only way I would meet with them in person is if they agreed to the meeting being recorded and if it was with a professional mediator or with a witness of your choice. And only if a recording is acceptable as evidence in court.
Parenting apps exist for a reason.
Whatever happens, they to stay calm and document everything.
Honestly relieved that woman can’t have kids, as terrible as it sounds.
You’re doing everything right OP, don’t doubt yourself for a second!
Updateme
Id tell them sure I’ll sit down face to face and have a conversation with you… only with our lawyers present! Don’t let them push you around mama!
Updateme
NTA! Keep using the app and try to document things. Also update me!!
NTA
You clearly need to go back to court once you have enough evidence. Your ex should be ashamed of himself. The fact that you beat them in court every single time should be telling him that they are WRONG. Unfortunately, these kinds of people will never accept that their selfishness is wrong. You are the only one doing the right thing for your children. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t be winning in court every single time. They’ve realised bulldozing you wont get them what they want, so now they’re trying to lure you in with honey. Stand firm. Go back to court as often as you need to. They’ve shown that they dont give a damn about the children. They want to use them as pawns to fulfill your ex’s fantasies. Just no.
NTA
They have failed in their parenting alienation plan.
They have failed to have more children.
They have failed at being good co-parents.
They want to lay all this at your door.
They haven’t changed at all.
NTA. It’s not on you to facilitate a relationship between his new wife and your kids. As long as you don’t do anything to unjustly alienate your ex from his kids, you’re fine. Their relationship with his wife is none of your concern.
NTA at all!
Your ex and his wife want to commit parental alienation out of their own selfishness, and their intentions do not come from doing the best for the children, but to do what your ex’s wife wants
Your ex and his wife are one of the most entitled couples I’ve seen. They are the ones who started the war with the “get used to hearing her called mom because they would not stop it and would actively encourage it”, the wife saying “she would be the preferred mom” and if they kids call her mom they “would hate me for separating them”. The one who hates your guts and want you to give the kids to her is the wife. And you only document everything and any time shit floats, you go to court
So I don’t see a single reason to talk face to face. I am afraid they want to start a different approach, now with guilty tripping. Stuff like “I am barren, the right thing will be for you to give me your kids, you can have more”, like it was puppies or something
Oh, that’s simple. Any face-to-face meeting is done with a court-appointed representative, a lawyer, or a licensed therapist.
If they are genuine, they’ll agree. If not, they are full of crap and you were right to want any discussion documented.
NTA
NTA – she wants you to give the kids to her. She’s entirely lost the plot.
NTA – there’s a dozen different ways this could be a set up. Even if it isn’t, it just sounds unproductive. She’s openly saying she hates your guts and wants to steal your kids on an app she knows is being recorded and shared? She will be ten times as toxic in private.
In a “enough rope to hang themselves” way, I suppose you could try and add the conditions of having a legal intermediary and an understanding the session would be FULLY recorded and shared with your lawyer. I doubt they’ll go for it, and wouldn’t blame you if you didn’t want to either.
NTA, if they aren’t willing to discuss it via the app it’s because they know what they will be saying will be wrong and would reflect negatively on them.
I would be making sure your kids have a way of contacting you while at their house which they aren’t in control of or maybe even aware of, just in case things gets crazy.
I bet she wants to borrow your uterus or they want to adopt and need you to drop court stuff to make them look better.
NTA. You’re their mother, and she’s just being catty, using your children as a prop.
NTA
If you can afford it hire a lawyer and let him/her know everything that’s going on. That woman does not sound stable and I fear that she may end up doing something stupid and desperate. Be alert. Do not have a face to face without a lawyer present and insist on recording the meeting.
Some perspective from someone who worked in child protection for most of my career… I would suggest that you ask in court that it be mandatory that she complete counselling, or that you get proof that she attended therapy, before anything changes custody or visitation wise. The whole “she hates my guts and wishes I would give the kids to her” screams that she is not doing well mental health wise, and they are counting on the kids to make her feel better so she can pretend she’s a mommy. It sounds like the woman has some serious issues that they are downplaying and/or she is going untreated. NTA, do not allow your children around this woman until you have professional proof telling you that she is mentally well.
Totally not the AH! Karma came for them. Not your problem. Stick to your guns. But do watch out that she’s not going off the deep end in a way that may put your kids at risk. Your ex doesn’t seem to care about anyone except her.
NTA. She came in with this smug attitude and outrageous behavior and now she got hit karma she ain’t as cocky. Well that’s her problem isn’t it.
Updateme
Nta, your children are NOT emotional support tools for your exs new wife!
NTA.
OMG, all this time and trauma and she has come a bloody full circle. The nerve and entitlement is strong in this one.
The relationship is in this state because of her demands for ‘Mumship’ from the beginning. When that didn’t work, she let the sh1tshow begin. Karma….😁
Hold strong, keep doing how your doing, and enjoy your life.
Edit for spelling and clarity
NTA. I’d refuse to speak to them without an attorney.
But I thought they were naturally going to see her as the preferred parent? 🤭
Put away the animosity? Oh they mean only NOW that she’s decided not to be a bitch anymore? She wishes you would ‘give’ the kids to her? Is she serious?
I’d also be very concerned with someone fixating on ‘hating your guts’ and her obsession with YOUR children while being emotionally unstable enough to attempt to take her own life.
Your kids are not her emotional support animals and do not exist just for her therapy.
Do not meet up.
Updateme
NTA. Just let them know that they talked a lot around the time of the divorce and they can reap what they sow.
Tell them all further meeting and discussions will take place in your lawyer office or over parenting apps
Agree to the sit down…with your lawyer present. You wanna talk about the kids, okay, I’ll have a witness.
You want to sit me down and gang up on me? Not gonna happen with your lawyer present.
Updateme
NTA.
Being a stepmother to young children while trying to conceive and struggling is hard enough. It’s brutal when you realize you’re infertile. It must be very painful for her, but at the same that’s her grief to manage. Your children are not a consolation prize.
On top of that, they were both wildly inappropriate with you, and created an impossible situation for your kids. What selfish idiots.
Updateme
What about setting up a meeting between you all with a therapist?
And NTA…they brought this on themselves.
NTA.
Communications through an app can be stilted and lack context, meeting for a face to face discussion might be helpful. But if you do it, get a family court appointed/ approved mediator so the whole thing is on record.
Ex saying you are not putting the children first needs to look in the mirror. Ex’s wife is screwing up the opportunity to be a loved and respected step parent
Updateme
NTA. Doesn’t sound like she’s stable enough to be around kids. Realistically she’s not a safe person for your kids to be arguing around.
Updateme
Update me.
NTA Only agree to a face to face meeting if it includes a court mediator/monitor and it is recorded.
They seem to be at the FO part of FAFO.
As any discussion is about the kids, and everyones relationship with the kids, they it should be done via the app so its all recorded.
NTA
You have been putting the kids first since the beginning, and now because their grand plan of more kids and your kids wanting her over you hasn’t panned out, they are wanting to rug sweep everything they’ve said and done to put the kids first now.
There is a reason you all use an app to communicate. If they want a face to face conversation, then it needs to be with a meditator or legal representation so NO crossed wires or ‘he said, she said’ occurs.
This chat and want of civility between you all is years too late on their end. The damage has been done and its their job to rectify their mistakes and work on his wife building a healthy relationship with your kids.
nta
Not the important part, but I find it funny when people think that giving kids more siblings will win them over. As if that changes the tense dynamic or will make them choose sometime else over their mom (where there’s a good relationship with mom. )
NTA tell him this if it can’t be done on the parenting app then it need to be done front of lawyers.
I love the part where they told you to put the animosity aside after giving you nothing but animosity over the years. LMAO
NTA Updateme
I thought for sure they were going to ask you to be a surrogate.
NTA. They’ve proven time and time again that their actions need to be documented. Hard to do that with a “face to face” discussion unless you could record it.
What court would order the kids not to call a step-parent mom or dad? Surely that cant be a thing?
They want you to “give the kids to her”? What, exactly, does that mean?
No. Get everything in writing through the app. That’s what it’s there for. The only way I would agree to a face to face meeting is if you have someone like a court reporter there recording every word so you can go back over it later.
NTA