I (f24) have a brother (m18) who really likes “stating facts”. He’s autistic and is really into black-and-white thinking, and reacts severely if he meets someone who’s not following the little rules he has in his head. I’m friends with a lesbian couple, and the first thing he did when he met them was ask them what they would do if the apocalypse happened. They had to repopulate the planet with a man, if they were on a deserted island with a man, etc. And another time when we met a family friend, who’s disabled and a mom, he had to ask her husband why he chose to have a baby with her instead of a “better option” since he “very much could” (her husband is tall).
My mom lets him do and say whatever he wants and will bring up his autism every time a person whose existence he gets mad at reacts, and when, before I moved, she’d get mad if i didn’t bring him with me, even if that’d guarantee he’d comment on my friends. I’m also autistic, but I’ve always been high-masking and was never babied like him, so it irritates me when my mom says his autism excuses everything.
My family visited my aunt this week, like we have done every year, and yesterday my brother had to comment on the fact that she doesn’t have kids and had to say she was not doing her “biological function” when we were on lunch break. She jokingly called her dog her son, which made her feel really bad. She’s told me in private (we’re very close) she’s felt less of a woman since she’s infertile, and most of the family is quite religious and only see women as basically breeding stock. I snapped and tried to make him feel the way he makes others and said that he shouldn’t have kids due to him not being able to tie his shoes and barely being able to shower, since his genes are inferior, “biologically speaking”.
I said it in the same tone he did, using the same cadence and focus on only seeing people as animals. He reacted to my statement, and my mom got really mad. It blew out of proportion, and we had a giant family fight where I told my mom he can’t just talk to people like that if he can’t handle being talked to like that. I eventually apologized just to let it go since she’s always going to baby him, but I don’t really believe I did anything wrong. AITA?
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I (f24) have a brother (m18) who really likes “stating facts”. He’s autistic and is really into black-and-white thinking, and reacts severely if he meets someone who’s not following the little rules he has in his head. I’m friends with a lesbian couple, and the first thing he did when he met them was ask them what they would do if the apocalypse happened. They had to repopulate the planet with a man, if they were on a deserted island with a man, etc. And another time when we met a family friend, who’s disabled and a mom, he had to ask her husband why he chose to have a baby with her instead of a “better option” since he “very much could” (her husband is tall).
My mom lets him do and say whatever he wants and will bring up his autism every time a person whose existence he gets mad at reacts, and when, before I moved, she’d get mad if i didn’t bring him with me, even if that’d guarantee he’d comment on my friends. I’m also autistic, but I’ve always been high-masking and was never babied like him, so it irritates me when my mom says his autism excuses everything.
My family visited my aunt this week, like we have done every year, and yesterday my brother had to comment on the fact that she doesn’t have kids and had to say she was not doing her “biological function” when we were on lunch break. She jokingly called her dog her son, which made her feel really bad. She’s told me in private (we’re very close) she’s felt less of a woman since she’s infertile, and most of the family is quite religious and only see women as basically breeding stock. I snapped and tried to make him feel the way he makes others and said that he shouldn’t have kids due to him not being able to tie his shoes and barely being able to shower, since his genes are inferior, “biologically speaking”.
I said it in the same tone he did, using the same cadence and focus on only seeing people as animals. He reacted to my statement, and my mom got really mad. It blew out of proportion, and we had a giant family fight where I told my mom he can’t just talk to people like that if he can’t handle being talked to like that. I eventually apologized just to let it go since she’s always going to baby him, but I don’t really believe I did anything wrong. AITA?
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> (1) I told my autistic brother he shouldn’t reproduce , to retaliate for how he talks to others (2) i said something that might be wrong to say
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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.
No you called him out. You only used his own logic against him. I’m sad no one else stood up for that woman. Mental disorders are not excuses for poor behavior.
Likely topic to removed, you drifted into Eugenics. look it up.
just in case its not removed, That;s a really big *YTA*
YTA. If you believe your brother is being cruel or hurtful to people, just tell him that he is being so, and suggest that he do better.
Being cruel and hurtful to him was cruel and hurtful. What good did it do?
ESH. That outburst was textbook eugenics and extraordinarily ableist. Being autistic doesn’t excuse your brother’s behavior. I’ve never been allowed to use any of my disabilities as an excuse for rotten behavior. I understand the plight of being autistic and trying to communicate. My mouth has gotten me in more trouble than I would like to admit, but none of these situations seem like a simple misunderstanding on your brother’s part.
YTA. You know better.
A little bit the asshole, but overally NTA.
Your mom needs to talk to your brother, because he seems very misogynistic and rude. What he said to your disabled friend was HEAVILY out of line.
Technically, you’re just reiterating what he said before.
NTA someone had to say it
NTA
ESH Your brother’s issue is misogyny and homophobia, not autism. I don’t think it was the greatest option to fight bigotry with even more bigotry.
NTA. Everyone is misunderstanding. It doesnt matter whether you actually think that (i don’t believe you do anyway). The purpose of saying that was to relay your brothers logic back to him to make him see how wrong it is to think that way about people. Now idk if you’ve ever expressed to him that its hurtful and he shouldn’t speak to people that way, technically that would be the first call to action but maybe that just didnt work.
YTA. Autism is a spectrum. Just because you are on the spectrum also, does not mean your brother is at the same place on that spectrum.
He shouldn’t say those things and your mother shouldn’t use his disability as an excuse. But you can’t control other people—you can only control how you respond. YTA
NTA
I genuinely don’t think it’s bad to talk to people the way they talk to others. Matching energy is never an AH thing to do.
NTA.
Honestly, keep it up. It sounds more like he’s continuing to do this because he’s getting a pass due to his autism than it is that he is just autistic. Like if he’s smart and cogent enough to have opinions this nuanced (please note, even highly nuanced opinions and beliefs can be flat out stupid and/or wrong, like these are), he can almost certainly learn by rote to just not say these things. Like he can learn a rote behavioral rule: IF “talking to woman,” THEN “no biological purpose talk.” This isn’t hard, and again, he clearly has the capacity to learn this stuff, even if he doesn’t want to. Having autism, as you damn will know, is generally not an excuse to both just opt out of all social rules and ruin your mouth.
If you keep up at it, he may eventually learn to be quiet. He clearly has empathy still, he can learn.
I think feeding people their own medicine can often be a succinct way of communicating what their actions do to others.
Eye for an eye in a verbal situation is pretty low stakes.
IMO YWBTA if you never stepped up to teach him this lesson.
It should be very obvious to anyone that you were being sarcastic and I do not think his autism should shield him from the reality of his actions.
He’s literally traumatizing your friends and family. Screw his feelings. He is being an ignorant baby and your mom is enabling that behavior.
YTA for saying it, but NTA for pointing out your brother’s shitty behavior.
No, it’s not okay to tell someone not to reproduce just because they’re disabled.
But your brother is a shitty person who lacks empathy, not because he’s autistic but because your mom raised him that way. As an autistic woman with an autistic brother, this story feels familiar. Men are socialized differently than women, and it’s all the more obvious in autistic circles because it’s so often used as an excuse, the way your mom uses it.
It’s okay to unintentionally be blunt or read a situation incorrectly, but when that happens, parents should step in and at least attempt to show their child what happened and why it’s hurtful. It’s a disability, so sometimes mistakes will happen and we won’t understand why. But that still doesn’t mean you’re free from any blame or at the very least, an apology.
Nta sometimes you have to match people’s energy
YTA not because your brother isn’t a dick but because you really need to understand what eugenics is
NTA – my brother has developmental disabilities and he used to put p*rn on in the living room when his female staff members came over to help him around the house. When I complained about how inappropriate that was my mom also got mad at me.
It’s somewhat common for mother’s of disabled people to become over-protective. But if your brother doesn’t learn that he’s being inappropriate from his family, he will learn from society, and society is meaner.
This is the most clear ESH I’ve ever seen. Both of you sound insufferable.
NTA. You talked to him how he talks to others who cares. As long as you can take it too that is. Plus he’s exaggerating his cover story because if he feels all that is the truth and it’s not his fault because of Neuro divergence then he would have just agreed with your statement about him. So he basically exposed himself. Us neuro typicals end up saying anything and not feeling bad once someone is enough of an asshole so don’t worry about he was an unnecessary asshole to family members and if no one teaches him how will he learn?
Nta, I know ppl are saying you’re a little bit the asshole but really, you just did what someone else (preferably your parents) should’ve done a long time ago. And either he gets the nice smackdown from you or a much ruder potentially violent smackdown somewhere later in life when he runs his mouth when he shouldn’t so.
Everyone fucking virtue signaling and crying about eugenics is missing the point: she’s using his own logic against him. Yes, saying that he has inferior genes and shouldn’t reproduce on that basis is eugenics, but this is in context not just a random attack on someone she doesn’t know. She is trying her best to hit the point home that he can’t just be a dick and talk about other people’s reproductive systems like that. Him telling her aunt that she isn’t fulfilling her biological purpose is sexism and just plain fucking nasty. Strong NTA, I’m autistic and if he is capable of judging others he should be entirely capable of shutting the fuck up when it’s inappropriate. Overall, yes it’s harsh, but you did nothing wrong. STRONGGGGG NTA. I feel your pain, I have a very similar family issue. 🥲
NTA
He did not “have” to comment on the fact that your aunt does not have kids or that she isn’t “doing her biological function”! He chose to comment on those things and nobody stopped him.
He has free will! Nobody forced him to comment those things.
NTA
NO
Why is it okay for him to say the exact same thing but not okay for you? NTA.
YTA autism is literally a spectrum you can’t expect every autistic person to act like you LMAO, not being able to tie shoes is a sign of autism, also being incapable of following social rules is yet ANOTHER sign of autism. You can’t expect your mom to act the same for two TOTALLY different circumstances. Your brother didn’t know about her being infertile, grow up. Your brother is insanely based and cool, give me his social media, I’m going to reproduce with him.
NTA, autistic or not your brother’s an asshole, and the rest of the world isn’t obligated to accommodate his “quirks”. You did the right thing by pulling him up on it, because if he keeps it up he’s almost guaranteed to say the wrong thing to someone who’ll whoop his ass.
YBTA (b=both). Your brother sounds red-pilled- his blunt delivery can be explained by autism but the ideas themselves not so much. As everyone else has said you went straight eugenics when you flipped on him. I understand your frustration and embarrassment with his actions but you did the exact same thing as he did. If I am morally against killing people, I’m not going to kill someone to prove a point to a murderer that it’s wrong?
NTA. Autism does not make you an entitled misogynist. Someone needs to give it to him straight and mommy dearest never will. So his feelings are hurt, so what? Aunt’s feelings were hurt and I bet she didn’t get an apology.
NTA.
THIS IS NOT EUGENICS! OP isn’t saying he shouldn’t reproduce being he has autism. She’s just throwing his words back at him. He quite literally said nearly the same thing to a disabled woman’s husband.
If the brother is offended by it, he shouldn’t say it to other people. He’s autistic, not a baby. He clearly understands between right and wrong if he can analyze situations and make comments like this.
There’s nothing wrong with stating facts or being a bit “weird,” but being sexist, derogatory, and ableist isn’t excusable. Also, there are going to be people in the future who don’t respond so kindly to unsolicited and rude comments.
Yeah autism is a spectrum, and OP brother may be at a different place than OP. But the truth of the system that we are in, is that ND men are coddled so much more than ND women who are forced into masking and coping. Actually true with NT men/women as well. All men are coddled… especially by their mothers.
NTA and good for you OP to put it in reverse ¯_(ツ)_/¯
ESH
You say you’re more high functioning than your brother, but you sank right to his level. You’re too old for “he started it”
NTA. I have an autistic son and a huge part of teaching our kids is teaching what is and isn’t appropriate to say in general discussion and social interactions. It sounds like he’s never been consistently corrected and that’s not doing him any favours. It’s convenient to say autism is the explanation but it doesn’t excuse speaking to people like that. It’s obviously a difficult process but not doing anything about it will not help him in the long run. Learning these skills can be a lifelong challange in some cases, it has been for me so far, but we should still be trying, not making excuses.
Definitely NTA. Someone else already said it, but I will reiterate that using your brothers same behavior as a way to show him how infuriating it can be is not a “bad” thing to do. It sounds like you may have said something similar even if he wasn’t autistic doing the same thing. If he’s okay with what he does, then I would expect he wouldn’t get mad at you doing the same thing 🤷🏼♀️
NTAH at all, I hate people using autism as an excuse. So many of us know now we’re somewhere on that broad spectrum and it’s not an excuse. My nephew is 17 and uses it as an excuse to have his mom cook and do EVERYTHING for him but she brags about how he’s the top of the class. The lazy little shit got put low on the spectrum and uses it as an excuse to keep enabling himself so he can play video games
NTA. His problem isn’t being autistic, its being a dick and also he sounds like he’s been consuming lots of manosphere content… but since you say your family tends to follow the same logic and reduce women to breeding stock, maybe that’s where it’s coming from. In any case, good job using his own logic against him. It doesn’t sound like it will have an impact since your family are classic enablers. But he much needed a taste of his own medicine. I also feel sorry for your aunt. Dealing with infertility around these people must be EXHAUSTING and very depressing.
NTA I don’t understand where all the y t a votes are coming from. You’re just demonstrating that by your brother’s bigoted logic, he too would be included in the people he usually insults. You don’t actually think this (however the phrasing in the title is probably what’s setting people off). Your family is really doing him a disservice by letting this behavior slide. Also like another commenter said, if he can get so upset by you turning it back on him, then it’s likely he can understand not to say these things to other people. He’s going around insulting people to their faces and hiding behind his diagnosis.
Maybe tell your mother that if he says the wrong hurtful thing to someone, you aren’t responsible for how others behave in response to his mean comments.
At some point you just have to let go and let him learn the hard way when it happens. I learned the same thing from the adults who took care of me in life. I honestly don’t know if there was any another way you could’ve told your brother what he was doing was wrong, but you’re NTA.
Saying he shouldn’t be a parent bc he can’t tie his shoes was absolutely shitty, and for that YTA. He shouldn’t be a parent bc he’s a sexist jerk who would twist up his hypothetical children’s self-worth with gendered nonsense.
Women are not obligated to manufacture humans any more than men are. Having the ability to gestate or sire a child does not make it your purpose in life, and not having the ability does not make you lesser as a woman or a man.
He’s been getting a pass bc people don’t think it’s worth the effort to engage with him and try to make him THINK about what he’s saying. If you don’t want to fight with him about it, just tell him that you don’t tolerate that sort of sexism and walk away whenever he engages in it. If you can’t walk away, blatantly ignore him. Hell, stick your fingers in your ears and hum.
If he’s going to consider women as little more than breeders, you can consider him a sort of walking penis that isn’t worth your attention.
NTA
ESH
You both said things that are gross and dehumanizing.
Call your brother out on his attitudes and biases, not his genetics and disabilities. The bigoted attitudes are what you don’t want him to pass on.
NTA coming from an autistic perspective. I think some people learn to use their autism symptoms as plot armor when knowingly engaging in socially inappropriate behavior because they learned from a young age they could get away with it. However tread carefully I feel like you’re putting yourself in a position to get demonized and labeled as ableist or abusive in retellings of the situation. When dealing with crazies it’s best to not give them any ammo. ammunition lol.
Autistic person here, your brother is an incel.
*NTA
I’ve heard of “autism speaks” but this is ridiculous
ESH. For the record, I’m also autistic.
OP, being pro-eugenics like this is never okay. Not even as turnabout. Do you think that human rights don’t apply to people you don’t like? You stooped to his level.
You could have told your brother he’s being very cruel, or that people are worth more than their genes, or even that nobody wanted or asked for his opinion. You would have maintained the moral high ground that way. Heck, even shouting at him to shut the fuck up would have been better.
Your parents are doing you both a disservice by allowing this. Autistic people can usually be taught to behave ourselves.
ESH, there are ways for folks with autism to understand how to interact in a more polite way. Especially if he is as able to communicate as he is. You were trying to hurt him. That makes you an AH. But keep in mind, Autism runs in families. There’s probably more than just him, in the family that is autistic. Also your kid could be autistic. How would you want them treated?
ESH. Your family sucks for thinking women are only good for their womb. You suck for sinking down to his level and not telling him earlier to cut it out. He is rude but he’s not an asshole if he’s born with autism and no one even tried teaching him social graces.
NTA, it’s not wrong to point out to the eugenicist that they themselves have “sub-par” genetics, you obviously don’t believe that and are just giving him his own medicine, he deserves it, do it more frequently and don’t back down, when your mom gets mad point out that you have autism and shouldn’t be held responsible for what you say- since that is the standard she holds.
NTA, you were just stating basic facts.
NTA. Autism isn’t an excuse for being an asshole. Your parents have done him a disservice by not shutting that behaviour down sooner. All you did was match his energy and he couldn’t take what he dishes out.
You used his logic on him and if he truly believes those things he shouldn’t have been mad if it’s true. He knows he’s being an asshole to people your mom coddles him and straight up doesn’t care.
Your mom says autism excuses everything? Then tell her you’re not held responsible for your comment either since you’re autistic too.
ETA: NTA
Given that this was a response to him using the exact same eugenicist and misogynistic rhetoric to prove a point to him, I’ll go with NTA.
Your mother is setting him up for failure. I am an AFAB autistic and I HATE it when “boys will be boys” gets even worse when it comes to autistic boys, as if they’re incapable of learning or being socialized. They’re not. People need to actually raise them.
NTA. If he doesn’t want to get comments like these, he should start changing his behavior. Not everyone is going to react with a polite smile to his weird comments, a few punches in the face are certainly guaranteered.
So yeah, you are actually helping him with this “reality check”.
YTA
Can you please tell him, for me, that the “repopulate the world” is a stupid hypothetical because the biological diversity needed would be far more than what a handful of people could accomplish? I would use stronger words but I have a feeling due to community rules it would get taken down.
Also as someone who’s diagnosed as autistic you’re NTAH and should keep it it up
NTA. You state that you are also autistic but high masking. I don’t condone people being forced into making, but it sounds like your mother is not setting an example and trying to teach him. The fundamentals of what society as a whole would consider acceptable in conversation are alien to him, and if she keeps making excuses for him and thereby condoning the behavior, she’s doing him a disservice.
She won’t always be around. Someday, he will have some degree of social autonomy, whether that is in a group home or living independently or with a family member. Odds are very good that his future situation will not treat his comments the same way.
He may not understand why people feel offended by certain lines of questioning, but he should be given the opportunity to learn that certain lines of questioning are considered offensive or uncomfortable. He won’t know what to avoid if it’s not taught and reinforced.
It feels so daft and wild how many people are getting caught up in the content of OP’s honestly really smart comeback lol. OP’s comment very succinctly wraps up the irony of all the BS AND eugenicist comments that op brother makes.
So silly how people are glazing over his comments that were actually literally eugenic (eugenicist??). Like the stuff he said makes me feel like he genuinely does believe in eugenics. But yes everyone, let’s get mad at the woman who stands up for herself using someone’s exact rhetoric against them. Bravo please continue to stand up for yourself and call him out more (and your mom LOL). But please don’t apologize next time <3
NTA
Here’s a fact: your brother is an asshole
Sort of the asshole?
So keep on mind, I’m saying this as an Autistic person myself. Someone needs to hold him accountable because Autism is not an excuse to be a sexist asshole. If your parents aren’t teaching him to be a good person someone else should.
That being said, this was probably not the best way to hold him accountable. We don’t stop unkindness with more unkindness. Someone needs to talk to him and explain why what he’s been saying is inappropriate and alternative behaviors to engage in instead. I wouldn’t bother telling him he’ll never get married because if he continues to talk to women like that, he will learn that lesson the hard way. If it is because he cant support himself, he will also have to unfortunately learn that at his own pace. It sounds like it’s something that is really important to your brother and he’s going to experience a lot of grief if either of those situations come to pass.
Don’t get me wrong, his behavior sucks and is absolutely uncalled for. But he could probably use a little empathy in the situation as well.
NTA. Your brother is a misogynist and homophobe, and that’s a much bigger issue here than his autism. It’s just sad that your mother tries to defend him instead of making him understand.
NTA
Having a disability shouldn’t be an excuse.
Ok I can understand as I have two nieces and the youngest gets away with literally anything and the mom doesn’t do shit.
NTA for calling it out but maybe don’t call out your brothers reproductive rights
I am also an Autistic (and ADHD) woman, good for you. If he wants to “state facts”, he has to be able to handle it in return.
Also tell your brother that scientifically, women don’t need men to repopulate the earth as it is possible to create sperm from bone marrow; thus men are genetically irrelevant. Two women can have a baby that is genetically both of theirs, but men still haven’t figured out how to reproduce without a woman’s help. 🤷♀️
Mom is an enabler whose excuses are contributing to the development of an incel.
Autism is not an excuse to let shitty behavior slide. Mom does your brother and society a disservice by not teaching and holding him accountable to societal niceties…as the rest of the world will.
NTA, but your mother kind of is.
This is a really common theme here. Someone was an AH, so I was an AH back, AITA?
It’s always a yes. You are only responsible for your own behavior and someone else being shitty, doesn’t give you an excuse to be shitty. ESH
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YTA. Whether or not your brother has autism has nothing to do with whether or not he should reproduce. He shouldn’t reproduce because he’s been dipping into the incel forums, and no one should have to put up with nonsense like that in a partner. His autism is not the problem: he’s plenty capable of learning the basic skills. He just doesn’t want to, and he learned how to manipulate his parents into not compelling him to learn it.
NTA. Sounds like he’s shielding himself in his autism to be an asshole without consequence. You simply threw his words back at him.
Looks like his problem is misoginy.
NTA
Autism doesn’t give you an excuse to be an asshole. You gave back what he’s been giving to other people. He might be doing it out of his logical thinking and social impairdness. But I would think if he feels hurt by what you said he should understand how other people can be hurt by his similar comments.
I dont think what you said is correct necessarily nor is it very polite but it seems to be exactly the kind of things he says. If he thinks those comments are acceptable he shouldn’t be offended by you saying it to him.
NTA, also, I find it funny that you literally explain how your autism is different (you’re high masking) and people in the comments are telling you, someone who is autistic, that autism is a spectrum, for some reason assuming you wouldn’t know that. You also explained in your post that your brother is babied, but that is also ignored.
NTA.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Autism isn’t a reason to be an asshole. Brother got a taste of his own medicines. He’s not a baby that he’d say anything and get away with it, just cause.
Asshole. Couldn’t think of a better, more civilized way of bringing it up? Also, did you need to add the jab at religious people??
NTA and do it every time.
There may be a better way, but this isn’t bad.
Does everyone have autism now? I feel like its cool to have autism now. I do know you can pay a grip of money to get tested by a specialist and i swear they just diagnose you. This is unrelated to the post really as op’s brother cant tie his own shoes which is typically a red flag for somthen going on.
This has the first time I say this in this subreddit: no.
I believe in treating as you’ll like to be treated, or as others treat you. In both cases, you’re rigth.
NTA and these comments are crazy lmao “youre ass for not asking nicely” and “autistic people have these problems no matter what”.
NTA. I’m on the spectrum a bit. Your brother is an asshole and your mom is really shitty for not doing anything to correct his behavior. That needs to be done when we are young because none of how to properly act it is natural.
Mental illness, disability, diagnosis, etc, is not an excuse for continued repeated asshat behavior.