Hello, something happened to me (24F) today and I just really wanted to see if I did the right thing because I’m feeling bad about it.
I was in the subway, my back against the doors (the ones that stay closed during the whole ride) and a big duffel bag at my feet. The train was relatively crowded but only with something like 1 or 2 people per square meter I think. I was just minding my business when a man started to lean on the grab rail next to me.
He was very close to me and almost touching my chest with his back/shoulder. I couldn’t move on either sides because there was the grab rail on one side, someone else on the other side, and him in front of me. This man on the contrary had at least 1 free square meter in front of him and didn’t need to lean this way. He didn’t try to sit somewhere before and he also was only something around 40´s so to me it seemed very rude and it was making me feel very uncomfortable.
I told him something like « excuse me sir, you’re too close to me, could you please not get into my personal space ». He then started to get very defensive, insisting on how it doesn’t make sense to ask for this in the subway as it’s a crowded space. I pointed the fact that there’s plenty of space in front of him but he didn’t care and said I should be the one moving there. I then explained I would be in the way of everyone with my bag and he then said that he doesn’t care and still want to lean on the grab rail. I told him « fine but just don’t touch me ».
After that he stayed a bit less close but then when it got more crowded he didn’t hesitate to get closer again. I simply decided to protect my chest by crossing my arms.
What made me even more uncomfortable in this situation is that many people kept looking at me until the end of the ride. I think they got the idea that I was saying that in a racist way because I’m white and he was a black man.
For example, I’m thinking about a black woman who was really staring at me in a weird way and at some point got next to me, very close, her upper arm was touching mine and it was just like she was checking if I was reacting or anything. But yeah it didn’t bother me because she’s a woman, I simply didn’t want a man to be touching my b**bs. But this whole situation made me really feel like I was wrong for reacting and it just sounded racist or something. I’m very confused by the way everyone around reacted.
What’s your opinion about it?
Thanks for sharing if you do.
I tend to feel very bad about things like this and I’m just unsure about if I did and said the right thing.
Edit: just to add that I do take the subway everyday, I didn’t react this way because I’m not used to it, I know how it works down there, in fact I never reacted like that before, in this situation I said something because there was really no need for him to be that close and I wanted him to acknowledge I was uncomfortable. Also many people mention that I could have moved and I agree that it wasn’t my first idea because my spot was a good one for my bag so I did prioritize myself in this situation.
Edit 2: I also did try crossing my arms first to protect my chest from a potential contact and also to make him understand that we were very close without actually saying anything but it didn’t bother him that we were touching this way.
Edit 3: I made it sound like it was more crowded than it was in fact, he truly had enough space to lean on the grab rail without getting that close to me, also he wasn’t completely turning his back on me, it’s like his shoulder was almost facing me, he basically just needed the change his angle, I guess that’s why I said something, but what I understand from the answers is that the best thing would have been to move myself to another spot
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Hello, something happened to me (F in my 20’s) today and I just really wanted to see if I did the right thing because I’m feeling bad about it.
I was in the subway, my back against the doors (the ones that stay closed during the whole ride) and a big duffel bag at my feet. The train was relatively crowded but only with something like 1 or 2 people per square meter I think. I was just minding my business when a man started to lay on the grab rail next to me.
He was very close to me and almost touching my chest with his back/shoulder. I couldn’t move on either sides because there was the grab rail on one side, someone else on the other side, and him in front of me. This man on the contrary had at least 1 free square meter in front of him and didn’t need to lay down this way. He didn’t try to sit somewhere before and he also was only something around 40´s so to me it seemed very rude and it was making me feel very uncomfortable.
I told him something like « excuse me sir, you’re too close to me, could you please not get into my personal space ». He then started to get very defensive, insisting on how it doesn’t make sense to ask for this in the subway as it’s a crowded space. I pointed the fact that there’s plenty of space in front of him but he didn’t care and said I should be the one moving there. I then explained I would be in the way of everyone with my bag and he then said that he doesn’t care and still want to lay on the grab rail. I told him « fine but just don’t touch me ».
After that he stayed a bit less close but then when it got more crowded he didn’t hesitate to get closer again. I simply decided to protect my chest by crossing my arms.
What made me even more uncomfortable in this situation is that many people kept looking at me until the end of the ride. I think they got the idea that I was saying that in a racist way because I’m white and he was a black man.
For example, I’m thinking about a black woman who was really staring at me in a weird way and at some point got next to me, very close, her upper arm was touching mine and it was just like she was checking if I was reacting or anything. But yeah it didn’t bother me because she’s a woman, I simply didn’t want a man to be touching my b**bs. But this whole situation made me really feel like I was wrong for reacting and it just sounded racist or something. I’m very confused by the way everyone around reacted.
What’s your opinion about it?
Thanks for sharing if you do.
I tend to feel very bad about things like this and I’m just unsure about if I did and said the right thing.
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> 1 : I told a black man to not touch me
2 : I think it sounded racist
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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.
YTA you’re in a subway, he was probably minding his own business and didnt even notice he was that close to you. When you brought it up he just felt accused of something more serious than it was and moving after that would be almost an admission of guilt. When you’re close to people it can happen that you bump into them (especially if they’re behind you) but there’s no reason to view everything as sexual and premeditated, the fact that would wouldnt have complained if it was a woman makes it even worse IMO.
INFO. Was he being creepy, noticing you, trying to touch you intentionally?
From the sounds of it, YTA. On a busy subway, people will be in your space, and might accidentally touch up against you. It doesn’t sound like he did anything weird or creepy, or tried to touch you on purpose. You’re uncomfortable around men, fine, but he has a right to exist as well. As long as he wasn’t trying to touch you, it sounds like you overreacted.
NTA if he had space to move away, not if it was crowded. From what you say, he could have moved. As a man, I would always be thinking about a woman being too close to me unnecessarily, and I’d be super gay if trapped that way.
I hate how crowded public transport can get. As a result I only travel on public transport at quieter times and/or if I absolutely have to. I also purchased a car.
I think I have to go YTA for your sexist attitude and your thinking that on public transport you should get more space than has been provided for each person at busier times. Either travel when it’s quieter or pay out for private transportation
YTA it’s the subway, people are gonna be in your personal space
Personally I would have been the one to move rather than saying anything, but it’s super annoying when people decide to station themselves on top of you when there’s plenty of space available. You’re also not supposed to lie down on the subway. NTA.
Racist and sexist great combo. They were staring because you were on the subway being an asshole. Don’t like close groups walk or get a car
NTA if he had a meter in front of him and you were trapped. I don’t understand what you mean by laying bc I’ve never rode a subway but if he was squishing you into a small space unnecessarily that’s not cool. Could you have worn your bag backwards on your chest to get more space?
YTA – while having space on a subway is always nice, it is not always possible, I lived in Beijing and Tokyo for years, where they literally have people pushing people into the cars (me included) – now THAT is uncomfortable. I would have avoided any confrontation and just moved to a position that was more comfortable. If he had been harassing you or something else, that is a different issue altogether.
You did the right thing no matter the color. Always put your safety first.
YTA. Your “personal space”? You could have just asked him to give you a little more space, but you chose to accuse him of a personal space intrusion.
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YTA and if doesn’t sound like you take the subway often.
it’s a crowded: it doesn’t matter how crowded or where there’s space, you can’t tell someone they’re invading your personal space. If someone isn’t invading your space now, someone will by the next stop so it’s really a ridiculous request. If it really was that obvious that he was TRYING to be close to YOU, then you should have moved. Your safety is important so to hell with your duffel getting in the way. People bring on massive three kid strollers that block the whole car, your duffle means nothing.
People who regularly take the subway, or any public transit, stand/sit in certain places for a reason. They stand in front of the doors because they’re getting off at the next stop and don’t want to push through people or stand in the middle of the car to not get pushed by people getting on and off. The grab rail over here is too tall so a short person needs to stand where the rail reaches the floor. Non of us like taking public transit, no one wants to be rubbing up against a complete stranger. so we do these little things that make our commute just a tiny bit more bearable. There’s probably a reason why he wanted to stand there.
And there are so many nuisances and rude behaviors on public transit: people smell bad, people begging for money, people talking loudly to themselves, phones at full volume, man spreaders, kids crying and yes, weirdos standing unnecessarily close to you for no discernable reason. But the unspoken rule is you don’t call it out (unless it’s straight up illegal, unsafe behavior). It doesn’t matter if they’re the ones being rude, calling it out causes a scene and you’re basically disrupting whatever peace can be found on a subway train. You mind your business, ignore it and worry about yourself.
ESH.
Also…
Am I the only one that started singing to themselves?
Young teacher… the subject… of schoolgirl fantasy.
You are not the asshole. Asking someone to move a little distance from you if they are too close or touching you. You were polite, and you need not be. It is common for women to second guess themselves when they stand up for themselves. You are NOT the asshole for being assertive in the face of aggression.
Not the asshole but just move next time. Dont start an argument on etiquette. Its clear they didnt care-leave it be. Just be mad in your head.
Public transport sucks and it’s annoying he did that, but you obviously both wanted to hold onto the rail. He wanted to lean on it. It sounds like there was space for him to move, but why are you suggesting he move? You also could have elected to move to the 1 free square meter there without anything to hold on to. He’s correct you could be the one moving there and your bag is not an excuse.
It’s hard to judge without actually seeing the situation, but probably NTA because leaning on the pole on a crowded train is rude. Every New Yorker knows that!
YTA. You don’t get personal space on the subway, and you acknowledge it wasn’t purposeful / malicious. In the scenario that someone is standing too close and isn’t trying to be a creep, the answer is to move away. It doesn’t matter that you have a duffle. It’s incredibly rude to effectively say to someone ‘stand further away from me’ – you don’t have a right to demand that on public transport if someone isn’t harassing you.
You say he was laying on the grab rail, which I think you mean that he was standing and leaning against it? He might have had a meter of space in front of him but wouldn’t have been able to lean against it if he was further away and that’s entirely fair. There are all kinds of reasons someone might want or need to do that (eg if they have balance issues, are tired etc) and so your complaint is even more entitled because you’re saying your comfort at standing exactly where you want to be is more important than anyone else’s comfort at standing where they want to be (the key here is that he wasn’t being creepy – if he had been, you’d be entitled to call it out, but the safest thing to do in that situation is to move).
YTA. Passengers in Subway cars can be very close. Take a taxi if the idea of someone being too close to you freaks you out.
Anyone saying otherwise has never been in a crowded subway in a large city.
YTA, just move lmao. Your bag is not going to be in the way. A duffel bag isn’t going to make anyone blink twice unless you’re in a country like japan where it’s rush hour every hour and your packed like sardines. But even then just prop it upright if you really care and hold it in place.
Also gotta admit, I have sympathy for the dude because I too prefer leaning on the guardrails when there’s no seats. I have bad knees and it helps a bit + I can stare at a wall instead of other people.
NTA, and tbh it does seem like some people see any criticism of a non-white person as racist, even if the behaviour warrants calling out.
transit can get very close/packed, but you can tell if someone is leaning into the closeness and trying to get a feel, not just due to the close quarters…
so definitely NTA for protecting yourself, but in the future it is often easier to move. I do think calling out the shitty behaviour, first, is a good idea, but only if you feel safe. like, ‘wow, you are way too close to me’ and then move to a new space.
safe traveling!
NTA
YTA. It’s the subway, not your living room. People stand close. Get over it. On the NYC subway I’ve had days where I practically don’t have to hold on to anything because there are so many people packed together. People here who say otherwise don’t ride the subway and have no idea what they’re talking about. And you do sound racist if you have to mention how not racist you are.
Soft YTA
I don’t think you’re TA for setting boundaries. I’ve been on trains before when other people have made me feel really uncomfortable by how close they were standing, so I get it.
I personally wouldn’t have approached it like you did though. I’d have either moved or said something like ‘I’m so sorry but I’m a little bit claustrophobic – would you mind moving over a bit?’ The way you spoke to him was asking for a defensive response.
You suggest that you felt uncomfortable about people looking at you after this. But imagine how embarrassed he must have felt in that moment – he probably wasn’t even aware he was that close to you because he had his back to you, so from his perspective he was just standing there minding his own business and suddenly someone was berating him for invading their space. The reactions you got from others do suggest that you didn’t come away looking great in that moment.
But don’t stress too much about it – we’ve all had moments where we could have done better, and by posting this it shows you are able to reflect and consider how you’d approach it next time.
Space on a subway varys with crowdedness He may not have been aware of how close he was to you. Crossing your arms then would have been the signal and he probably would moved a bit. But
you went into high gear right away.You both dressed him down and accused him of perving on you, when nothing indicates that’s the case. So of course he had to get defensive and make it about your hypersensitivities rather than a transgression on his part. I’ve been riding the NY subways since 1964 and black men don’t deliberately encroach on a white girls person on a crowded subway. Historically, it leads to a very unfavorable outcome.
YTA it’s the subway, big dawg
Public transit is miserable. YTA. If it was an abandoned car yeah ok, but it’s been compared to being packed like sardines for a reason
Why didn’t you just turn? Soft ESH
I take the subway all the time. If the train was so packed there was nowhere else to stand that would be different. But having 1m of space available and choosing to stand on top of OP anyway makes him the asshole. In this situation I would just move, but I’m happy to see someone get called out for this asshole behavior for once. NTA.
YTA mind you being in a Tokio subway. Space is tight, get over yourself.
You admitted yourself that it was crowded. Of course, you’re the asshole here.
YTA.
YTA. He was facing away from you, he didn’t mean to do anything on purpose. It’s the subway, it’s known for people to just jam in there. If you don’t want to feel uncomfortable again, then get a car and you won’t have to worry about someone accidentally touching you with his BACK turned TOWARDS you.
If you aren’t willing to get a car, then I would suggest to just suck it up and only say something if the person is deliberately doing it on purpose, but for this situation, it doesn’t seem like that
Lmao, of course, YTA.
Public transportation isn’t exactly spacious. You are in the vicinity of people. If you want your own space, get a car, take a cab, or call an Uber.