My daughter is 17. She is good in school and working hard. She has no chores or rules really. The one rule we have is that she leave her location on her phone if she’s going out. In our country, it’s legal for her to drink and so she goes to bars. She doesn’t have a curfew she just has to keep us updated that she’s safe. These rules work for her because she is normally responsible. We let her throw a house party recently where it was supposed to be 25 people and at least 100 kids came. We cleaned up the mess.
She signed up for a volunteer job to get into college and it’s every Sunday for three hours. She has been doing this since January and already missed two weeks. One due to illness, one due to illness from a hangover. She also has left a half hour early every week since she started. This Sunday she overslept but there was still time to get in and she said she wasn’t going. I told her she has to go. She made a commitment and that if she doesn’t want to do it she should give her two weeks notice.
She said I’m controlling her. I asked how. She said asking for examples is a form of gaslighting. She called me a c-word multiple times. She can’t give me any other examples of me being controlling but insists I am. She told me she will never let me see my grandchildren when she has them. She said I’ve been yelling at her for six months and been rude. My husband was in disbelief because he’s been here and I haven’t yelled at her at all. She then tried to storm out without her phone and I told her she needed to go to her room and she said that was abuse.
She can talk very fast and confuses my husband sometimes so now I don’t know if I’m the crazy one. I know maybe we should have more rules, but I had very very controlling abusive parents so I have tried to be much more permissive.
Her side of the story is that another girl who trained her in volunteering said no one cares if you turn up or not and no one cares if you leave early. But I pointed out the emails from the volunteer staff say it does matter that they are there and attend. She said those emails are none of my business. Which maybe they’re not but she asked me to get her the volunteer work so they come to my email.
AITA?
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My daughter is 17. She is good in school and working hard. She has no chores or rules really. The one rule we have is that she leave her location on her phone if she’s going out. In our country, it’s legal for her to drink and so she goes to bars. She doesn’t have a curfew she just has to keep us updated that she’s safe. These rules work for her because she is normally responsible. We let her throw a house party recently where it was supposed to be 25 people and at least 100 kids came. We cleaned up the mess.
She signed up for a volunteer job to get into college and it’s every Sunday for three hours. She has been doing this since January and already missed two weeks. One due to illness, one due to illness from a hangover. She also has left a half hour early every week since she started. This Sunday she overslept but there was still time to get in and she said she wasn’t going. I told her she has to go. She made a commitment and that if she doesn’t want to do it she should give her two weeks notice.
She said I’m controlling her. I asked how. She said asking for examples is a form of gaslighting. She called me a c-word multiple times. She can’t give me any other examples of me being controlling but insists I am. She told me she will never let me see my grandchildren when she has them. She said I’ve been yelling at her for six months and been rude. My husband was in disbelief because he’s been here and I haven’t yelled at her at all. She then tried to storm out without her phone and I told her she needed to go to her room and she said that was abuse.
She can talk very fast and confuses my husband sometimes so now I don’t know if I’m the crazy one. I know maybe we should have more rules, but I had very very controlling abusive parents so I have tried to be much more permissive.
Her side of the story is that another girl who trained her in volunteering said no one cares if you turn up or not and no one cares if you leave early. But I pointed out the emails from the volunteer staff say it does matter that they are there and attend. She said those emails are none of my business. Which maybe they’re not but she asked me to get her the volunteer work so they come to my email.
AITA?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my nearly adult daughter that she couldn’t no call no show to her volunteer job. I did say it angrily because she was shouting at me. She said this is controlling her and that you don’t need to be there every day. I told her she needs to give two weeks notice or show up. She said that’s controlling and that she can do neither. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone because she’s 17.
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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.
NTA. Seems her not making it to this job is straining the friendships she made there. She is trying to use psych babble to get you off her back and make you out to be the bad guy. Probably because she feels bad.
In your country is she still considered a child and therefore you and her father are still responsible for her?
Nta I see it as preparing her for life . Most places if you call out all the time you’re going to get canned …. people did this so much at my work that now everyone is being punished and we have to have a Dr’s note if we call out. Calling out unless you are sick or there is an emergency is selfish it makes things harder for everyone else . She is 17 hopefully when she matures she’ll be able to see that it effects other ppl . You also shouldn’t let your child call you cuss words
NTA. Why are you letting your 17yo kid steamroll you like this? You need to get your scene under control here.
Too hungover to go to her job, calling you a c***, throwing a 100-person party when you said keep it to 25. No telling what else she is up to that you don’t know about.
“My daughter is 17. She is good in school and working hard.” Sounds more like she’s manipulative and being shady! So much for college. NTA
Giving no chores and no rules was probably a mistake.
When a spoiled person gets involved with alcohol, they won’t hear anything you say.
Don’t try to change them with your words, but you can still have an influence with your actions.
EAH. Being permissive finally caught up with you? It worked before because you let he do what she wants. Now you are shocked that her response is so over the top. You did her a disservice and she will pay the rest of her life.
She on the other hand is getting ready to go to college and should have developed more self discipline by now. She is indulging in a teenage temper tantrum.
Sorry to say but this is all your doing. At this point trying to be a parent isn’t going to work
NTA. Your daughter is being manipulative. Sending her to her room isn’t abuse. You should take her phone and every electronic device she has except if she’s doing her homework on them.
Your child is being an AH and you need to call her out on it. She’s not a good kid just because she gets good grades. If you make a commitment and then you don’t honor it, you’re an AH.
I don’t know what new age parenting this is, but I know there is no age in which I could ever call my mother the c word or any curse word for that matter and not end up eating pavement.
Are you sure she’s normally responsible? Because every example you’ve given indicates the exact opposite. It’s not good for kids’ development for parents to be too overbearing, but it’s also not good for there to be zero consequences, either. Did she have ANY sort of consequence for the house party incident? Or was she allowed to let her friends trash the house with just a stern “well, don’t do that again”? If she pulls that as an adult, if she’s renting, she might just find herself out of a house. There’s consequences to actions even as an adult, and it doesn’t seem like that’s clicked for her.
Let her not go and let her get fired. Thats life. Actions have consequences, you gave her good advice which is that if she doesn’t go she will get fired, and she’s right it’s her choice to listen or not. You have set this paradigm in your household it will be hard to change up on her now lol
If she’s old enough to go to bars and drink she’s old enough to decide whether or not she wants to get fired from a job. And if it ends up hurting her college application she’ll learn herself a good lesson called regret because she will have no one to blame but her own hungover self.
NTA, she needs to learn to take responsibility as she grows into adulthood. If she doesn’t go that also has implications she needs to deal with. Teenagers are good at saying its not their fault, whether it is or isn’t!
INFO – does she lose the college place if she doesn’t do the voluntary work?
ESH, your daughter for the things you’ve mentioned, you for violating a 17 year old’s privacy like that. It seems like your attempts at discipline are several years late, she’s almost an adult, grounding her won’t work for long. I’d say let her find out that actions have consequences and stop cleaning up her messes for her first of all.
YTA. I knew where this was going as soon as you said she’s 17 and “has no rules.”
This is a self-created problem. Kids need love AND boundaries.
This is a crucial time as a parent. If you don’t fix her now, she will be irresponsible forever. I’m serious.
You had controlling abusive parents and for whatever reason decided to raise your child with zero rules, responsibility and basically let her decide and dictate everything? Children still need rules and boundaries, raising them without any is a form of abuse as well. This sadly is a major disservice to society as she seems to be an entitled brat. NTA and You are the A****** because the world is now going to have to deal with her in some capacity. I hope things workout for you I really do but she’s 17 and has had no rules, no boundaries, she called you a c***? Honey you have bigger problems than the no call no show I’m too hungover to go in situation. You and your husband are her emotional punching bag and her servants. YIKES!
You haven’t taught your daughter respect, responsibility, or accountability, and now you’re finding out the results. She now needs to have the “finds out” part of FAFO with consequences such as losing all electronics, going nowhere other than school & volunteering for X time frame, etc. It’s late but you need to start being a parent
NTA. It’s your job as a parent to teach her what responsible behavior looks like, and leaving early and skipping when you feel like it isn’t it. You are not being controlling by explaining to her that this is unacceptable – you are doing your duty as a parent to help make her into a responsible adult.
ESH you give her plenty freedom in exchange of prof of 0 Responsibility. Being good in school can’t be the only RESPONSIBILITY. No chores? Like for real?
For 17 years you raised a 0 responsibility person with 0 accountability (party and you clean? No, do party and you kids clean). Now she is like ‘I never do it I don’t want to do it’ no shit.
Time to cut and grow up.
NTA. This daughter is definitely going to end up on a cop cam before she hits 20.
Whoa. Why did you allow it the first two times?!
It’s a volunteer position that means they were counting on her and she let them down. If it were a job, big deal, no show no money. BUT a volunteer job? That’s pretty low.
She’s run circles around you and your husband and you’re about to release her on the world?
You’re not doing her any favours.
Step up mom, your kid needs a kick in the pants.
INFO: Did your daughter sign up for her volunteer job voluntarily?
YTA for letting her get away with so much shit for so long, that now she has no sense of responsibility that should have been instilled by you years ago.
The ship may have sailed, unfortunately.
There seems to be something more going on with her that she is not telling you.
She might be uncomfortable and being harassed at her volunteer job.
You’ve raised a spoiled brat. Good luck.
YTA in the respect that you raised her with no chores or rules, now she throws big temper tantrums and you’re surprised here?
NTA but maybe focus on helping the psych/behavioral issues before anything else. If she’s truly acting the way you describe, then this girl is not ready for the responsibility of college. ETA: changed to ESH, the house party thing is wild.
ESH; unfortunately you raised a spoiled brat through your permissiveness and 17 is far too late to really do much about it except seriously cut back on funding her life, force her to get a real job through that, and inform her you’ll be charging rent and she’ll need to follow house rules when she’s a legal adult.
I’m not saying you need to charge her market value for rent; you can even keep the money in a fund to give back to her at some point…but she’s had zero responsibility her whole life and it shows.
She’s laughably unprepared for real life.
NTA
The thing you did was not give her any rules or expectations aside from her keeping her location on when she goes out. She’s already 17 and is used to not having any consequences of what she does.
If she doesn’t get into college, let her deal with it on her own. Quit helping because she won’t learn.
NTA except it appears that rather than parenting you just like to say she’s normally responsible.
NTA. Adulting is going to be a shock to this child. I see tantrums, foot stomping and a lot of door slamming in her future.
YTA. You’re letting your 17 yr old regularly consume alcohol when science tells us that adolescent brain development is significant harmed by alcohol. Is it any wonder that she’s showing clear signs of alcohol dependency disorder (the change in behavior, the negative consequences of drinking, the abusive attitude from a formerly responsible hard working student). Your daughter is still a child and it was your job to keep her safe. Instead you permitted her to abuse alcohol and now you’re experiencing the consequential effect on her behavior.
NTA Requiring a teen to keep a commitment is not controlling. It is parenting. But if she cannot keep commitments then university may not be for her right now so maybe letting her fail now will help her in the end. When she can’t get a letter of reference because she didn’t meet her obligations, she will learn.
ESH her for her attitude, and you for being controlling as she is 17 already and her going to her voluteering or not is truly none of your business.
You spoiled her and this is really your fault
YTA for basically causing this. Raising kids without rules is never a good thing. She is obviously not as responsible as you think she is. And frankly, she’s 17, it’s too late to try to set rules now. You made this bed, you’ll have to lie in it.
What a little monster she is. Not sure what the volunteer opportunity is, but she sounds like she needs to work with someone WAY less fortunate than she is. She doesn’t sound mature enough to get a job where she has responsibilities and deadlines.
Were you planning to pay for college? You might rethink that.
Kinda have to go soft YTA. Parent your child. Give your child responsibilities and consequences. Sounds like you so want to be the cool parent that you’re setting your kid up to be a lazy, irresponsible adult. How is that a good idea? Maybe let her get fired from the volunteer job – which she’s only even attempting to do so she can benefit from it, not to actually help anyone – and then when she doesn’t get into college, let her get a job and an apartment. Jeezus.
NTA but I wouldn’t die on this hill. You’ve had a conversation with her about why it’s important to stick to her commitments, but she’s old enough to make her own mistakes and suffer any potential consequences. As someone who flaked out on stuff a lot when I was younger, understanding that it was wrong of me wasn’t good enough—I had to actually experience the fall out, even if it took some time.
And maybe your daughter is right, maybe there won’t be any. That’s actually fine, too. But she’s at the age where you have to start letting her figure shit out for herself, and this is something with minimal consequences if it falls apart, so I’d let it be.
NTA, but why are you surprised? No rules, no responsibility, then all of a sudden when your daughter is 17 you try to make rules and try to teach her responsibility? Should have done it earlier but that ship has sailed
Your daughter sounds like the only c-word in this post. It sounds like you should have given her alot more chores and responsibility growing up because she’s going to grow up to be the worst kind of person.
NTA At some point, you just need to let her fail. If she loses this spot and her scholarship as a result, she will have no one to blame but herself. I would absolutely shut down her swearing at you and calling you out of name. One good smack in the mouth, and I doubt she does it again.
Mixed verdict.
You’re right in that she needs to honor commitments.
However, she’s getting hung over while still a minor? Where have you been? Sounds like she’s having issues you need to get her help for. You’re the grown-up. No excuse for letting her throw you mentally.
I’d say nip this in the bud, but honestly with less than a year to go until you can’t do anything legally your time is running out since you’re talking months now instead of years. Move at lightning speed.
NTA, but you should work much harder at it. Parenting requires a broad skillset, one of which is the ability to slip into and out of asshole mode. Kids sometimes need to deal with assholes.
“She said I’m controlling her. I asked how.”
Say WHAT? “HOW?” Did you really respond that way? I would NEVER ask her such a thing. NEVER. Appropriate response to a 17 yo: “Are you still here?”
See? Its called parenting.
Parenting is a lot like making sausage. We dont necessarily like what goes into it, but we enjoy we certainly enjoy the final results. Long term.
If m daughter behaved that way, she would be on her own for college.
“She said I’m controlling her. I asked how. She said asking for examples is a form of gaslighting.”
What crap. This is not gaslighting, it’s engaging in a conversation as a responsible parent, training a daughter who still needs training.
“Gaslighting” is a great term, but it’s being killed by this broad overuse.
NTA.
Yta- your parents were too strict with you, so you went to the complete opposite end; by not parentingat all. However, you have now raised an entitled, irresponsible, bully. The fact that your daughter would speak to you in that manner proves you failed as a parent.
Your daughter “is good in school and working hard”. But lacks any respect for her parents or any adult or rules, in general. She has no rules at home (except leaving location notification) and no chores. But she is normally responsible? How so? She didn’t even have to clean after her own 100 person house party! Just because 17 is the legal drinking age, doesn’t mean you should let a 17 year old drink with no limits all night long. Alcohol has proven negative impact on developing brains including brain shrinkage, poor mood regulation and impulse control … just bc something is legal, doesn’t mean you should allow your child to participate in it with zero limits. Her no-showing for a volunteer job is the least of your problems and is a symptom of something much larger. Let her lose the job for a start, so she can learn consequences. ESH
She has no rules but you expect her to have a good work ethic? YTA. Kids need guidance and rules. Structure.
You said that she needs the volunteer job to get into college. Easy fix. Call the job and tell them you aren’t giving permission for her to work there. Then let her figure out how to get into college on her own. If she wants to act like an adult, let her figure it out on her own.
NTA but let it go, she will lose the job and learn the hard way how the world works. You have to let her make her own mistakes.
Ha. Controlling? No, it doesn’t sound like it. Not the least like it.
If my 17 yo blew up on me like that out of nowhere, I’d wait until she settled down, ask her what’s really wrong.
The advice someone else gave to use shouldn’t instead of can’t is good advice.
NTA.
Wow. NTA in this situation, but definitely YTA for your permissive parenting style. I hate to break it to you, but she is clearly not responsible. Not just for the hangover and leaving early, but no “responsible” child would EVER call their parent any name, let alone a C-word at 17 and threaten to withhold future grandchildren. You should be very concerned by this behavior. It’s “normal” if you’re a permissive parent, but it’s not normal and it’s not ok. I would take her phone away until she can show respectful and responsible behavior, and don’t let her go out at night. You need to turn this ship around. Just because you had abusive parents, it doesn’t mean that the opposite end of the spectrum is any better. You’ve now created an abusive person who is now abusing you and may abuse others. The best parenting style is the middle. You’re all on the same team and have the same goals, but you and your husband are the team leaders and you’ll listen to her ideas and compromise, and reward good behavior, but also punish bad behavior. It’s all very important. Without one, the others don’t work. It’s late in the game because she’s almost an adult, but you still have influence in her life. Good luck.
It sounds like there’s something missing here. At her age I didn’t get hangovers, oh those were the days! I had chores to do and still performed well in college. I also had a Saturday job that I always went in for.
Where does she get the money from for drinking? I’m in England so was out in the pubs drinking at 14! It’s stricter nowadays thankfully but I never got into trouble or gave my parents shit because on the rare occasion I did, I’d be grounded for a month. This was back in the 90s, I was sneaky about drinking when I went out and didn’t get caught, the vast majority of the time.
The only thing I can think of here is that she’s got a different set of friends now. She’s 17 and still under your roof. You and your husband need to sit her down, tbh, I’d do it with a drink and make it casual and ask how you can help. There’s clearly something going on with her that’s more than getting up for her voluntary job. Maybe she’s being bullied there, maybe suggest finding a new one?
You’ve not given her many boundaries so now she’s pushing back against the other. I do understand that you’ve not needed to though.
Can’t give a judgement, just advice, I do have stepchildren her age though.
So she’s been raised with no rules and now you want to implement them and it baffles you that she doesn’t want to follow these new rules?
LET HER FALL ON HER ASS
She will have to learn the hard way and you will too.
NTA for wanting to correct her though.
NTA meaning you but your child is A-hole.
Many people think that since it’s volunteering work it is voluntary to show up. But that’s not true. I have done a lot of volunteer work and it is always a pain in the ass when people don’t show up. Like some one has done major work to organise everything and counted how many people are needed and then some of them don’t show up and others give last minute excuses.
ESH, you for not setting firm boundaries and her for not taking responsibility for her education/job prospect. But then again, you let her do what she pleases and drink all night before going to work, so she’s weaponized your lack of boundaries against you.
When I was 17, my mom passed away and my dad kind of took a back seat approach to parenting. I wasn’t neglected, and I didn’t turn out to be some irresponsible child. What I did become was LAZY, because my dad didn’t tell me what to do or not do when it came to work and school. I figured hey, I must be doing alright because dads not saying anything, so I’ll keep slacking off because hell take care of me! It took a lot of un-learning those habits before I was able to make my way in life on my own.
You aren’t the AH for telling her to go to work, but you are one for letting her take advantage of you. You can try and set some rules now, but again, she’ll be doing a lot of un-learning of her bad habits before getting it together.
You say she’s normally responsible, but she goes out and gets hungover.
She had a party that was supposed to be 25 people, but was 100. Was she involved in cleaning up the mess?
She has no chores. Has no job.
You’ve set this woman up for failure.
ESH
So you have given her no rules, & she complains when you give her a rule! She is an entitled brat, & you two are enabling her. She hasn’t learned any respect.
Nta but it seems like something might be going on with her.
NTA. If she made a commitment she should have the character to keep it. If she cannot be bothered, she should at least have the ethics to inform them so they aren’t relying on her.
Your daughter sounds like the rebellious teen that she probably is. I wouldn’t take her threats too seriously. Requesting examples of the controlling behavior she is accusing you of would only be a form of gaslighting if you intended to use those examples to make her seem crazy or delusional. Otherwise, it sounds more like an attempt to understand her point of view, which would be the opposite of gaslighting.
Be that as it may…if she wants to be treated like an adult capable of making her own choices, let her blow off her volunteer work. Explain to her the potential consequences…they may fire her so she won’t be able to use them for college admissions, or if she uses them as a reference on her university applications they may point out her lack of commitment and unreliability to admission’s officers and that could effect her ability to get accepted where she wants to. Then let her decide for herself.
OK OP – are you serious here?
No chores, no curfews, 4x the # of people at a party and YOU cleaned it up?!?!
All due respect (if any is due) WTF – reap what you sow. You’ve raised a relative princess who doesn’t know responsibility.
You can’r seriously be surprised by any of this?!?!
OMG 😄😄
You, unfortunately, already ruined your child, be a parent not a friend EHA
Kind of sucks to realize it bow, but you raised a spoiled brat who weaponizes therapy terms and concepts to manipulate those around her.
And its total BS that she won’t let you see your grandkids when she has them, because she is 100% the kind of spoiled brat who is going to basically abandon her children for you and your husband to raise.
Good luck with the future, as it’s pretty much too late for your 17 year old to learn decency from you now. Your only hope is to let her fail herself so hard that she crawls back, articulating where she went wrong and looking for your help rebuilding herself into somebody decent.
NTA. SHE sounds spoiled and likely because there has never been many rules set by you.
“she has no chores or rules really”
You have set your daughter up for failure. You have not taught her how to be a responsible person. How can you can you expect her to suddenly be responsible and show up to volunteer when she has never has any consequences for her actions?
She rude, hateful and disrespectful to you because you have never held her accountable.
Let her screw up her volunteering. If it affects her college admissions, well then she finally has a real life consequences to her actions.
You are reaping what you have sown.
YTA. For not teaching her how to adult.
NTA
I just had an employee be told by her coworkers that being late is okay. She was fired before her 90 days were up for tardiness. She can’t trust what her coworkers say, and she needs to go to her boss or supervisor
“Asking for examples is gaslighting” is the most teenager living at home shit I’ve ever read 😂
Oh puberty… I feel for her and for you, I was quite similar to your daughter when I was 17. Nothing really came through if I didn’t want it to hear or listen to. For her it will have to be learned the hard way – no show = lose the voluntary job, and I would not interfere anymore. If she feels this grown up , and you already tried to get through to her to no avail, she will be able to handle the consequences. Believe me. NTA
This girl is living with you until her mid thirties unless you gain control. Honestly, it’s not just your passive parenting it’s these generations coming through. Too much psycho babble and being triggered by an open window.
She’s spoiled. Fix it now or she pays later.
You’re NTA for telling her she should fulfill her obligations. I’m not saying this to be mean, but you raised a spoiled brat. Enforcing any sort of boundary or expectation is going to feel like you’re controlling her in her eyes. I say let life handle her. She’ll see where that lax attitude toward work will get her.
Drug addiction behavior.
NTA She is making a poor choice and you need to stop coddling her. I had over 1000 hours of volunteer time when it came time for college applications. I was awarded a scholarship that was highly sought after. I gave it to the girl that was the runner up. She wanted to be a doctor and I didn’t know what I wanted to do.
Your daughter isn’t responsible. You’ve enabled her crap behavior. You created this problem. So YTA. You created an entitled monster and now you’re acting shocked when she’s behaving as such.
NTA, but your daughter is behaving like a massive AH.
Let her sink and learn some consecuences while still in a “safe place”. It will serve her well to learn those lessons now, as opposed to later when her actions may have more dire results.
ESH Not you for your expectations, but you for allowing things to get this far.
I’d suggest that you stop footing the bills – no more money to go to bars, no more house parties, nothing more than her room and board until her attitude improves. Give her chores — part of the problem is that she can do whatever she wants when she wants. Make her earn her privileges with responsibilities.
Let her have to work for the extras she gets, and maybe she’ll start seeing how showing up for a volunteer job and all the things adults have to do isn’t as easy as she thinks it is for other people.
You’ve raised her view her responsibilities as her rights. Now you can either take the hard steps to fix it, or hope she wises up on her own … eventually.
NTA