This is all one big huge mess and I don’t know if I (17f) can keep it short but I’ll try.
So my parents were married, expecting me and mom thought happily, when she found out dad was cheating on her with a woman they both knew called Mandy and had gotten her pregnant. She kicked him out and filed for divorce but had to wait until I was born to get the divorce finalized. Hannah (also 17f now) was born 4 months after me.
Custody of me was one big clusterfuck my whole life. Sometimes mom had primary custody, sometimes they shared custody. My parents were always fighting. Mom and Mandy too. Mom hated Mandy and told me from a young age what happened between dad and her. Mandy hated my mom for messing with her job and exposing her as the other woman in a relationship. She told Hannah all that stuff and more. Both my mom and Mandy were arrested for attacking each other.
I never liked Mandy. She wanted me to for a little while, I think. But as a young kid I gave her a very hard time for the affair and I told her she was gross and I always compared her to mom to make her feel bad about herself. And any time Hannah saw my mom she’d call her names or spit on the floor.
So it’s probably not a total surprise me and Hannah never had a good relationship. Until 5 years ago it was just the two of us when dad and Mandy had two more kids through IVF. But I never called her my sister, half or otherwise, and I always said I was an only child. And Hannah would get mad at me for having extended family who spoiled me and did stuff with me while she only really had our dad’s side who were never involved.
I never loved Hannah. Ever. I still don’t. I don’t care about her or feel some kind of sisterly bond that I’d protect her from shit, nope. None of that. And I get more annoyed because we share a room at dad’s house now because of the twins. Whenever I’m at dad’s house we fight like crazy. At school we fight like crazy. She was suspended once for trying to attack me because I called her an affair baby.
We’re not nice to each other. I don’t really like anyone in my family. Even mom. I feel bad for her but she also chose attacking dad and Mandy over keeping me away from them, because she had that chance once or twice and instead chose to make their lives miserable. Dad told me I should hate him and Mandy for stuff that happened before I was born but I told him he’s the starter of all this and he can’t pretend he’s innocent now. He admitted to me once that he regretted cheating on mom and he still loved her. That he was young and dumb and shit like that.
Then a month and a half ago Mandy found out dad cheated on her with my mom a bunch of times in the last five and a half years, starting during her pregnancy with the twins. I had no idea. Apparently whenever I had a sleepover at my grandparents house or he was working late when I was at his house, they were hooking up. And he hooked up with a bunch of others too.
He’s still living with Mandy. He wanted to get back together with mom but she said no. Mandy’s freaking out. Hannah’s pissed at me because when Mandy told us and broke down crying I told her it must be so awful to find out your husband cheated while you were pregnant and then said at least he didn’t have an affair baby months after you gave birth. Hannah said I didn’t need to be a heartless b*tch and I told her it wasn’t my job to pity her mom who did the same thing. She said her mom was humiliated by it all and dad and my mom were the cause. I told her I didn’t care about any of that and that I don’t care about her mom at all. I said she was looking for the wrong person to feel bad for her. Turned into a big enough fight that Mandy made me leave. I went to mom’s and my grandparents told my parents they were taking me to live with them.
Dad’s trying to fight that and he’s dragged Hannah and the twins along twice to see me and he’s trying to make me feel bad for what I said to Hannah. He also wants me to live with them. Hannah said I was blaming the victim and I told her that her mom was no victim in my eyes. My grandparents told dad to leave and he wasn’t to come back but he still calls and because he involved the court and the cops I’m afraid to block him. But he said I should at least apologize to Hannah and try to do better. I don’t think he’s right. But it looks like Hannah is spiraling or something now so it’s clearly getting to her and I don’t feel bad for her. But should I? And should I feel bad for what I said?
AITA?
Comments
ESH. Both of your parents sound like terrible people and you aren’t any better.
All yall are assholes and immature to a degree. I worry about the twins. Hope they have better adult figures to look up to jeez.
NTA
Your feelings are valid. But you don’t kick someone when this person is already on the floor. Take a step back, don’t involve yourself in their problems and don’t block your dad – but you can mute him. Wait and see what happens.
Look, I don’t think you are the AH here, but I don’t think Hannah is either. You are both kids, you have both been damaged by your parents antics, none of them chose to prioritise you or Hannah and you’ve been brought up this way, or should I say dragged up, by people who put their own urges and needs ahead of their kids. It’s messed up.
No one can force you to have feelings for Hannah, or like her, and no one can expect it either. And Hannah was wrong to look for sympathy from you after your experiences, but, neither you or Hannah are your parents. You are not the ones who have hurt each other. Your parents did that as a group effort and you and Hannah – and these younger children – are collateral damage.
Showing someone kindness and empathy is never wrong.
NTA. You don’t owe any of them any sympathy or compassion.
Your anger is justified, you’re still young and you shouldn’t have been put through all of this mess by the adults in your life. Your dad messed up big time and hurt so many people.
Hannah doesn’t deserve this either, and she’s in a worse situation and she can’t even defend her mother. I’m guessing that’s why she might be spiralling. She did nothing wrong here and can’t be blamed for what her idiotic parents did.
If your dad can afford IVF to spawn more kids, he most certainly can afford therapy for the 2 of you!
All yall need to grow up. Your mom not the least of you. She’s petty and vindictive and while you’re mad at her for it for the custody thing, you’ve done the exact same thing. She had an affair with your dad just to hurt Mandy. Great role model. As for you, taking whatever shots at Hannah where you can because your dad can’t be faithful? Weird, honestly. Hannah had no control over the circumstances of her birth or her parents getting married. Your dad needs to just be alone and pay his child support since he’s incapable of being faithful. Mandy just learned the hard way that “if he does it with you, he’ll do it to you” in regards to cheating. Idk if she knew, at the time, that your dad was married with a pregnant wife but either way she chose a dishonest man and she’s suffering the natural consequences of that.
You’re not obligated to be compassionate, but being cruel is a choice. It’s not your job, responsibility, or obligation to be a bitch. Your actions are a reflection of you, regardless of the situation. If you hate everyone else in the situation so much, maybe don’t put real effort into being like them.
NTA. You are allowed to feel how you feel. Your dad should realize how this will push you away when you turn 18. I am one of those people who believes you shouldn’t apologize and just focus on yourself. Block Hannah and Mandy. I have sympathy for the twins, but you’re not close so it doesn’t have to be an issue. There are two types of family: the ones you are stuck with and the ones you choose. You made your choice.
NTA I cant understand why some think you are. What they expect when you grow up under a situation like this
NTA for what you said as it’s the truth.
However, both of your parents failed you.
Your dad for cheating and your mum for not getting you away from all that toxic drama. She should have taken the high road and wanted nothing to do with your dad, instead she decided to lower herself by screaming matches and cheating with your dad.
Your dad is pathetic and has a weak character. Stay with your grandparents, if you are close to 18, go NC now, by the time it gets to court, you’ll already be 18.
I would go LC with your mum as well, she’s acted no better.
ESH literally every single person in this story sucks
NTA.
NTA. I don’t feel sorry for affair partner or affair sister.
Updateme
Look, this may sound like a difficult thing to do given all the history here, but my advice is this: Ignore the adults in this situation because they should be accountable and suffering the consequences for their own shitty choices. As other people have said Hannah is as much a victim of this situation as you are and I’m sure if you took the time to look at the situation from an outside perspective you would see that both of you have been burdened with the resentment between your parents which in turn has created a rift between you. I suggest you stop looking at her from your mother’s lens or the result of your father’s mistakes and have an open honest conversation with her about how you both have been hurt by this. Both you and her deserve support and understanding and I really believe that if you sit and try to have a bit of a mature conversation you could get to a better place. Do what you will with this.
YTA
Your choosing to defend your 304 of a mother and don’t seem to care that your thot of a mother has hurt Hannah and the twins mother and broken up their family
Esh. You didn’t have to be ugly to Hannah, she didn’t ask for this either. To be called an affair baby is a lot. As far as the “adults” in your life you’re justified in your feelings.
OP you are the fortunate one for having grandparents who care for you and have opened their home to you. NTA
You’re all as bad as each other, but I can understand why you’re so bitter.
You’re 17, just block your dad and the rest of the mess and stay at grandparents. At your age it’s not worth him taking it to court, and they’d probably take your wishes into account anyway
NTA.
I think you should stay with your grandparents, turn 18, and then cut ties completely with your cheating dad and his entire second family.
Just reading this was exhausting. I can’t imagine living it in real time
All of you are horrid cunnts
Yea you sound like an asshole.
Grow up. Read this again in ten years and feel bad you ever took this anger out on someone in the same position as you.
Edit to answer: yes you should feel bad. Your parents should feel worse.
Updateme!
Wow. Talk about kids being completely failed by the adults in their life. Your dad failed you. Your mom failed you. Mandy failed you.
Adults have their own baggage. They should never foist it off on their children.
This is the adults mess. Wishing you nothing but the best. But there is a saying that is true. “Living well is the best revenge”… Start putting your energy into yourself and building a great life for yourself…
Your parents need serious therapy, probably you too since you haven’t witnessed a healthy relationship. You’ll probably turn 18 before a custody case gets to court plus your dad has 4 children to pay for so I doubt he’d go through with suing for custody.
NTA for wanting some distance. Maybe there can a truce with Hannah if she stops trying to rewrite history. Though given recent revelations, Mandy probably wasn’t the only one your dad was sleeping with when your mom was pregnant. What’s your dad’s secret for finding women with no self respect and keeping them obsessed with him for years?
You shouldn’t have been used as a weapon like that. I know you don’t claim her as one, but you were nasty to the one person who had no say in it. Your biological half sister didn’t choose her parents just like you didn’t. Now telling her you don’t care about the plight of both of your parents not really a AH move, however just remember she isn’t the cause of any of it.
You’re 17, court won’t do shit. Block him and stay with your grandparents
Thats.. a whole ass mess. And your dad is the cause of all of this. So he’s the last person to demand, want, wish or whatever anything. He f‘d this up, so it’s on him to make this right. Not yours. And surprise, some things you can’t make right.
What Mandy did was putting her hand in a fire and then acted shocked she got burned. Yeah, who would have thought that you dad would ever do this, huh?
None of this is your job to solve. You’re the kid in this too, you’ve lost your family because of his and Mandy’s actions before you were even born. Actions have consequences, now they have to live with it.
You have a whole lot of anger OP. If you don’t work through it, it will eat you alive.
Also I think you are angry at some of the wrong people. Your sister didn’t do anything wrong. She didn’t tell her mom to have an affair. She didn’t tell your dad to have an affair. She is a victim too.
The fact that you don’t even see your siblings as siblings and basically hate them is also disturbing. I am not sure if your mom and grandparents are encouraging or validating that. Which is a massive problem if they are. They should be encouraging you to embrace them. If not they are part of the problem and encouraging you to stay stuck in some sort of angry victim stance.
You are clearly hurt……you have every right to be. But it seems a little extreme and all encompassing. And worse, you are the one it is hurting the most. I really do suggest you seek counselling.
As for your sister, she is going through an extremely difficult time. You more than anyone can relate to exactly what she is going through.
You don’t need to pile on cruelty on top of what she is already dealing with. I don’t imagine anyone did that to you when you were going through it.
You’re 17 so you’re only months away from never having to see or talk to any of them again if you don’t want. Honestly, you can probably stop bothering with them now, the court won’t do much at this age.
NTA – but all the parents in this are terrible.
I see zero reason to apologize or to continue to participate in this clown show. You’re 17. You have a safe place to live with family.
Make your dad take it all back to court and request to speak to the judge. PREPARE ahead of time. Make lists of every single fight, every single thing you can think of that ALL of these people have done to make your life a living hell.
Be RESPECTFUL to the judge. Explain that you don’t want to live like this anymore. That you are 17 and have a safe place with FAMILY — you aren’t running away. You’re in a place where you feel wanted and loved. Make it clear that you’ve never felt wanted and loved by the other people in your life. You’ve felt used. You’ve felt resentment. You’ve felt neglected. You’ve felt like a pawn.
If the judge is amenable, ask respectfully if he can order your parents to give you (or your grandparents) your birth certificate and Social Security card.
Remember, 18 isn’t that far away. Once you turn 18, you don’t have to see or talk to any of these people ever again!!
You can also sue for emancipation. Research the process in your state.
I would not apologize… mandy is understanding that what comes around goes around… that if a man can cheat WITH you he can cheat ON you. So I don’t really feel bad for her… the common denominator problem here is your father. He has no respect or regard for any woman he’s ever been with. He is also hurt his children with his choices. While I don’t think you should make nice with your half-sister and her mother I also think you don’t always have to be on the attack. I don’t think you should have anything to do with them at all. You go on on about living your life and let them go live theirs. If mandy and hannah are miserable it’s their own fault. With that being said you don’t have to contribute to it.. it just leads to going back and forth and so much hate being spread. Cut off mandy cut off hannah and I would go solo contact with dad because he’s the root of all the problems. So that’s my big advice… cut them out of your life and and stop kicking a dog when it’s down. They don’t deserve the privilege to be in your life… so remove them. Then move on.
NTA stay with your grandparents if you can. I think you are wrong to hate on Hannah because she never made this mess, the adults did. Direct your anger towards your mom for not protecting you and for having sex with your dad after he completely fracked her over by having an affair. Direct your anger at your dad for being a cheater and for dragging you into this mess.
OP I hope you get therapy and that you can learn to let go of the anger (for your sake.) For now focus on college ( maybe located far away?), stay with your grandparents and let your mom, dad & Mandy deal with the giant mess they created. After you turn 18 if you want, you can insist on only seeing your dad and having nothing to do with your half siblings/Mandy.
What a mess!!!!!
Ok, the adults are the AH, for sure and you and Hannah are trapped in all of this. Hannah is not spiraling because of you, but because what the adults are making. So the one that has to apologize is your father for being a piece of sh!!
Truth hurts. You told Hannah the truth. Her mother was just as humiliated as your mom, but people don’t like it when wheat goes around comes around
The best thing that has happened so far is you living with your grandparents.
Your whole family is a mess ESH. All of the adults especially your dad are total assholes. You kids never stood a chance and have both been programmed to be angry and bitter too. You obviously need therapy, and im sure your sister does too otherwise you will grow up to be just like your mothers.
All of the adults in this situation are TA for exposing y’all to all of this drama and sharing personal feelings with their minor children about it, which is completely inappropriate. It’s one thing to tell a kid that being cheated on and dumped was a humiliating experience (as in reporting facts). It is quite another to emote to the kid. Anything with tears and / or raised voices is just not appropriate to be visiting upon a minor child. Yes, we can all talk about how this is all the man’s fault and if he didn’t want his children’s mother to be a hysterical, screaming and crying drama queen he probably should not have cheated on her and that doesn’t change the fact that this child has now been exposed to her emoting about it all over them. She’s not responsible for keeping his dick in his pants, but she is responsible for who she’s throwing her fit to in front of and conducting herself in a way to minimize the damage to her child because someone has to think of the kids — because clearly the man is not.
It’s literally NEITHER your concern nor Hannah’s about how her mother feels — and this all happened nearly 20 years ago, and nobody should be sitting around crying and being all upset about it and still talking about it now. If anyone is still upset about either cheating or being called out for doing the cheating, they need to get over it at this point. Nobody wants to hear about it anymore. Hannah coming to you about the sins of your mother is also totally inappropriate. I’m not gonna take points off of her though because she is only 17 and she has been groomed her whole life to do so. She’s trying to do a solid for her mother, and I cannot fault her for that. In years to come, she will learn that if she wanted to chew anybody’s ass about this, it needs to be your father, not you. After all, that’s your mother she is talking about and if he was lying and scheming to cheat on Hannah’s mom, I’m sure he was no prince of honesty and forthrightness to yours either.
Maybe you could have phrased it more nicely, but you are the wrong person to be complaining to about this issue. I’d be fucking sick and tired of hearing about it too, in your place.
And here’s something to think about also — even if you decided as you were growing up that you actually like her mom better and that your dad should’ve stayed with her and if you decide to think that your mom is this big ol’ ho for being involved in this drama and you decide to cut your mom off and not speak to her anymore — IT IS STILL INAPPROPRIATE FOR HANNAH TO BE BAGGING YOUR MOTHER TO YOU OR ANYONE TO BE TALKING TO A 17-YEAR-OLD ABOUT THIS SITUATION in any way other than to be a listening ear for the kid’s concerns.
It also would not matter if Hannah is not bagging your mom directly — she doesn’t need to say “don’t you think your mom is a trash receptacle for this?” or even “your mom was totally the bad guy in this situation because she tempted my innocent father away from his beloved wife” — just talking about how her mom is so upset and humiliated and on and on is very clearly painting your mom as the problem.
I come at it from the perspective that I don’t care who was at fault back then, or what was going on between any of the adults. That is all completely and totally irrelevant to the fact that all of this adult drama should not be carried out in front of y’all. They should be doing kid exchanges and attending events as any other completely normal coparents.
LOOOOOL
Op i’ll be honest, people are going to call you petty for what you did…i on the other hand am going to call you a HERO
NTA
Nta for the comment but all the adults suck here. You and your half sister should never have been dragged into this mess and forced to choose sides.
Your mom and your step mom are so busy being mad at each other, they let the guy who actually caused this completely skate with no consequences. And he gets to sleep with both of them.
Both Hannah and Mandy are blaming the wrong person in this awful family soap opera… your sperm-donor is to blame. Mandy is NO “victim” in this. She, apparently, has lived under the delusion that she (somehow) “won” the “prize” that is your serial cheating sperm-donor, conveniently forgetting (or ignoring) the old adage of “how you got him is how you’ll lose him!”
YOU are NTA! I truly hope that your maternal Grandparents can keep you far away from the chronic toxicity you’ve dealt with seemingly your whole life. I doubt that they’re many here (or anywhere) who would think Y T A because hurtful truths are still the truth! Hannah will have to find her own “safe haven” from her negligent and reckless parents because… WTaF were her Mother and your shared Father thinking to actually bring TWO MORE innocents into this poisonous situation?
Greatest of luck for your future and planned endeavors!
NTA your dad is pathetic. He’s the most pathetic one in this lot of losers. Goodness. I’m sorry you had to deal with this all your life.
Wow, Your Dad is a mess. All of this because he can’t keep it in his pants.
Your Dad is very selfish and hurting a lot of people. He is putting both moms against each other.
Dad does not act like an adult. He has a Huge EGO that needs to be stroked and has not business creating kids.
Sure both Mothers in this are fighting because he keeps going back and forth between them never moving on. All adults’ in this are causing so much chaos instead of letting go and putting there kids first and giving them a stable life.
Everyone needs therapy big time. The parents are a big mess and did not put the kids first. But I am more concerned about the kids. They all have had very bad role models and not a good foundation for them to grow up and have a relationship on there own. Shame on all the Adults here.
I don’t think you are an ass. But what you are doing is hurting yourself. It is not your anyone’s fault they were born. Planned or unplanned.
You just have grow up and try to find your own way in the world. Does not mean you have to be friends but stop going after each other. Move on and try to find your way in life. Try to do better then your parents and not repeat there mistakes.
YTA, but it’s.. not entirely your fault? Your situation is turning you into assholes. You’re in fight mode. You’re hurting and annoyed and you want her to be, also.