I (F21) recently started volunteering at my hospital to strengthen my PA school application. I came in genuinely excited to learn and help.
The volunteer coordinator (F~65) is very passionate but also extremely blunt. During training, she stopped mid-presentation and called me out in front of everyone, saying I looked “completely bored and unhappy.” I was just concentrating. I nervously joked, “That must be my default face,” and she said, “Well, we need to fix your default face.” It was awkward, but I brushed it off.
On my first day on the unit, I shadowed a mentor as we visited a patient who asked for a book on zoology, then went on a 20-minute tangent about animals. I listened quietly and respectfully, wearing a mask (which covered most of my face), when the patient joked, “You’re bored, aren’t ya?” and laughed. I responded, “No, not at all! I just wanted to let you speak.” The mentor didn’t say anything, so I assumed it was fine.
A few days later, I got a surprise call from the coordinator at my full time job. She said she’d heard from my mentor about the interaction and was “deeply disappointed.” She claimed my facial expression showed a “lack of enthusiasm” and made it sound like I wasn’t interested in the program. I explained that the patient was joking, and that I was wearing a mask, but she didn’t buy it. She also asked, “Why are you wearing a mask? They’re not required on the unit,” in a pretty condescending tone. I didn’t realize wearing a mask would be a problem.
She then said she didn’t think the program was a good fit for me. She brought up another instance when I was flipping through my notes during her training presentation and accused me of not paying attention. I was literally just taking notes. None of this feedback had been given to me before, not by her or my mentor, until this sudden phone call where I felt blindsided and accused of being disinterested and ungrateful.
Now I feel totally discouraged. I’ve been showing up on time, being respectful, listening to patients, and doing my best to learn quickly and help. But I feel like I’ve been misjudged over a few minor misunderstandings, with no real chance to improve or explain myself.
WIBTA if I just quit? I don’t want to burn bridges, but this has become incredibly disheartening and stressful. I wanted to be here, but now I’m questioning whether it’s worth it when I feel unsupported and unfairly labeled.
Comments
Backup of the post’s body: I (F21) recently started volunteering at my hospital to strengthen my PA school application. I came in genuinely excited to learn and help.
The volunteer coordinator (F~65) is very passionate but also extremely blunt. During training, she stopped mid-presentation and called me out in front of everyone, saying I looked “completely bored and unhappy.” I was just concentrating. I nervously joked, “That must be my default face,” and she said, “Well, we need to fix your default face.” It was awkward, but I brushed it off.
On my first day on the unit, I shadowed a mentor as we visited a patient who asked for a book on zoology, then went on a 20-minute tangent about animals. I listened quietly and respectfully, wearing a mask (which covered most of my face), when the patient joked, “You’re bored, aren’t ya?” and laughed. I responded, “No, not at all! I just wanted to let you speak.” The mentor didn’t say anything, so I assumed it was fine.
A few days later, I got a surprise call from the coordinator at my full time job. She said she’d heard from my mentor about the interaction and was “deeply disappointed.” She claimed my facial expression showed a “lack of enthusiasm” and made it sound like I wasn’t interested in the program. I explained that the patient was joking, and that I was wearing a mask, but she didn’t buy it. She also asked, “Why are you wearing a mask? They’re not required on the unit,” in a pretty condescending tone. I didn’t realize wearing a mask would be a problem.
She then said she didn’t think the program was a good fit for me. She brought up another instance when I was flipping through my notes during her training presentation and accused me of not paying attention. I was literally just taking notes. None of this feedback had been given to me before, not by her or my mentor, until this sudden phone call where I felt blindsided and accused of being disinterested and ungrateful.
Now I feel totally discouraged. I’ve been showing up on time, being respectful, listening to patients, and doing my best to learn quickly and help. But I feel like I’ve been misjudged over a few minor misunderstandings, with no real chance to improve or explain myself.
WIBTA if I just quit? I don’t want to burn bridges, but this has become incredibly disheartening and stressful. I wanted to be here, but now I’m questioning whether it’s worth it when I feel unsupported and unfairly labeled.
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This coordinator and mentor sound like they are costing the hospital good volunteers. Is there anyone she reports to?
NTA. Honestly I would go above them to to like the HR department or whoever deals with that kind of thing and advise them of the issues you’ve come across and the fact that you will be withdrawing from the volunteer position because of the staff members that they have running it and that if these people don’t want to be in a teaching position that maybe they should get different staff members to run the volunteer program.
I would also make sure that you do it an email form. Just make sure that you leave any sort of emotions out of it you just advise them that what they’re pushing people away from the volunteer program because staff members that don’t want to actually want to be in those Mentor teaching positions.
NTA
There could certainly be some valid feedback in there about not looking bored when interacting with patients. I think you need to acknowledge that three people apparently have suggested you looked bored. You say the patient is joking, but it’s still a joke that only comes up when you look bored. So there’s probably truth to that, regardless of whether it reflects your internal feelings.
If you care about the position, I would try to see if working on a more connected expression stops the criticism. But if you don’t that doesn’t make you the AH, particularly since it sounds from the mask example like the coordinator is patronizing.
NTA
OP, if you want to be there and learn, dont allow other people to determine what you can or can’t experience in life. It’s extremely hard to do, but it’s worth it if you dont have to live with the what-ifs the rest of your life. No matter what you do in life, there will always be someone who has something negative to say. If you let them win now, they always will.
Also, based on what they’re saying, you may have a discrimination case IF you want(or need) to escalate this further. Im autistic. If my facial expressions dictated what experiences I got in my life, I wouldn’t have gotten very far. They’re being gross.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, but dont let miserable old hags dull your shine. I wish you the best.
You should tell the higher ups and HR at the hospital.
Maybe send a factual email. Also, let them know you got flak for wearing a mask.
Your coordinator sounds like a shithead.
Good luck with everything.
NTA for wanting to quit but it sounds like you need to take a look at your presence and how you carry yourself.
What does listening respectively look like to you?
Are you slouching, fiddling with a pen, tapping your foot, staring off into space, staring at the floor? Are you making eye contact? Are you reacting to what is being said? Are you asking questions? These are all signs of disengagement/engagement.
What does listening respectfully even mean to you? I can’t judge you if you don’t describe the behavior.
Even without a mask, your eyes will still communicate.
Nta. Female workers in hospitals are total mean girl bitches.
Consider that hospital patients are in a bad place in their lives. The volunteers are the “cheer up” team so a good fit is that person who somehow people are always happy to see. The puppy that makes people smile. So maybe you actually aren’t “right for the job” even if it is an unpaid position. That’s something for you to consider before you get too defensive about being told you look bored. Maybe you do look bored even when you aren’t bored. That be something you could work on as facial expressions are important in the working world.
If you’re going into healthcare, you do have to work on facial expressions, changing your default face to a neutral or calm, not a bored or RBF.
Being bored in training is meh.
But the patient asking if they’re boring you? That’s a problem. The patients want/need you to be attentive, not feeling like they’re boring you.
Learn from this experience. Remember healthcare providers talk. This is a working job interview.
The person you’re calling a mentor (is that your term or the program’s term?) reported a concern the eay they should. Why were you wearing a mask if not required? That could be perceived wrong by the patients too.
Young women get routinely treated with contempt and disrespect unless they are behaving in some way like a decoration. THEN they get treated with contempt, disrespect, and sexual harrassment. I experienced this as a young woman, and I see it happening to young women now.
I’d bet cold cash money these old bats would not react to a male volunteer your age acting this same exact way. Nay, he’d be complimented as calm, steady and serious. A good listener to the patients, studious with the notetaking, etc. See what they want and expect out of you is to be pretty and smiley and a ray of sunshine about the hospital. You’re supposed to constantly walk around with a smile pasted on your face, vacous expression in the eyes, and lilting tone of voice. Anything different is deemed as you being hostile in some way. Uninterested, rude even. I remember getting this sort of treatment from older women when I was young. Men, too, with the added nonsense of petulance that I wasn’t being and acting ‘pretty’. The constant commands to smile, being told to use my beautiful smile.
Now I was your age well over 30 years ago so nobody is going to flat-out say these things nowadays, but that’s what it is. That’s why she asked you about the mask, humph. I wish things were different for young women now, but they’re not really.
I would find another volunteer opportunity. This isn’t the right fit for you. They don’t like you for some reason. I would file a complaint for how you were treated. That was unprofessional.
As you grow into the workforce you’ll meet all kinds. Take what’s valuable and learn from it. The other stuff let it slide off your back. There may be something to the bored expression so try to get a handle on what they’re seeing. Maybe have someone video your facial expressions in a variety of emotions, like when you’re : bored, focused, enthusiastic etc. Try and be authentic and see if you can see what they’re mistaking for boredom. As someone with RBF I totally get how frustrating it is to have your expression constantly misinterpreted. Something as simple as consciously smiling may change their perception. Also express your interest, enthusiasm and desire to be there to the coordinator, not when you’re defending yourself but when casual opportunities arise, in natural ways. It’s super helpful to know how you’re perceived; you don’t always get that opportunity. Sometimes people just don’t accept/like/choose you and you don’t know why. One way to indicate interest is asking questions, like when your patient was talking about animals, instead of listening only; engage! What’s your favorite animal? Why do you like them? Who’s your spirit animal, lol? Asking questions is a great way of engaging people and showing that you’re paying attention and interested.
Are you neurodivergent? I get called out for my facial expressions a lot, but it’s my resting expression or thinking face most of the time.
I’ve been very up front with coworkers etc. that if they see me making faces or I look disgusted, it’s likely I’m just concentrating.
If you enjoy volunteering there outside of this situation, I’d just be up front that that’s just your face and you find it inappropriate to be called out based on assumptions they are making. Throw discrimination in there as well, as that’s what it is.
If you struggle with interactions, you can try some “active listening” phrases like “oh, wow! Really? That’s interesting” every so often so the person knows you’re engaged. I find it annoying to have to do that and have somewhat stopped his masking as I’ve gotten older, but sometimes it’s just easier than dealing with the people who will chastise you otherwise.
NTA
As someone with resting bitch face my entire life, I understand your frustration. I once had my supervisor at an internship criticize me to my college advisor that she couldn’t tell what I was thinking because my face was blank. Long story short, I left that internship for another.
Have you asked your mentors what they witnessed that made them think you were bored? It’s always possible you did something you’re unaware of, but yes it could be something as looking “too” serious when you’re trying to exude respect.
You may want to try responding with an honest “I am enjoying my time here, I’m learning so much, what do you think I can specifically do better to show that?”
Also. There’s no shame in leaving your placement and finding something else.
NTA
Jesus they have orientation for volunteers? How fricking hard is it? When I volunteered I was basically told to help stock supplies, help patients with any questions like where to go to find stuff, and help with cleaning.
When they say you’re looking “bored” reply with, “if I was bored, I wouldn’t be volunteering here. I enjoy this work, I just happen to have a bland resting face. Please don’t let it bother you.”
When I was taking sign language classes, my instructor told us many in the deaf community call hearing people stone faces because we don’t know how to communicate with facial expressions. Apparently I was an extreme example. Especially after I got to learn from actual deaf people, I did learn to be more expressive. But it is always an effort for me. Learning sign language may help you be more expressive. But it is something you need to want.
As far as the people running your program, they don’t know what they are doing. You got no coaching or training, just put downs. Please do talk with someone more senior and tell them you don’t think they handled the situation well. Use the explanations you gave in your post.
NTA.
Complete dumbass if she’s asking you why you are masked while speaking to a patient in a damn hospital
Okay, besides tying to report those people, maybe also look at it objectively.
I have serious resting bitch face. 1) I’m not a jokey type person, and deeply introverted, so I’m usually listening respectfully to others 2) I have deep marionette lines along my mouth, which makes it look turned down when just at rest 3) My eyes are a bit droopy or sad (think Nicholas Cage). So overall, I can be contented or even pleased and I look grumpy as hell to people who don’t know me (people who know me seem to adjust their perceptions of my moods).
When I started employment that I had to look engaged and alert, I realized I needed to change my ways a bit. I made more eye contact, I nodded slightly when others spoke, I often “smized” a bit or turned up my lips in a little smile. Because I realized my typical little smile was invisible.
So maybe take a little of this feedback on board and see if it’s true. Having a resting bitch face isn’t a crime, but there’s places that you need to adjust if it’s true.
You’re not a bad person if you quit, but if there’s anyone you can mention to above her or from the volunteer services that her constant negative comments are the reason you’re quitting, that would be a good idea.
I have volunteered since I was 18, and have met people like this in their 60’s and 70’s who constantly complain about how no young people volunteer anymore, but then when they do, these same people spend the whole time nitpicking everything they do and treating them like crap.
If you felt comfortable maybe even let her know that she’s the reason you’re leaving, that you were enjoying it but she has now ruined it for you, she may not care, but these people need to know
NTA. The coordinator and “mentor” sound like assholes.
I also have resting bored/bitchy face. Some of us are just concentrating and actually listening to you, and I don’t understand why it upsets people so much.
Try to stick it out. Take the feedback they have given you and work on it front of a mirror. Yes, they were rude and completely lacked tack, but that doesn’t invalidate the feedback.
I am not sure how young you are, but you will meet some truly awful folks in a medical setting. Just take this situation as a challenge and a learning experience for your future career.
You got this!
NTA. I would think in this day and age, people would understand that women aren’t required to dress and behave as if their purpose is to be visually appealing to others. There are tons of people with RBF, ADD, autism, facial issues, etc that aren’t smiling all the time. A very legitimate reason is: we just don’t feel like it!
If you’re not disrupting or interfering with the purpose of the work, you’re dressed and well groomed for the environment, I don’t see what the problem is. Yes, I would quit volunteering there, and perhaps do let the hospital HR department or volunteer coordinator at the hospital know. However, even if you get an apology, I wouldn’t work with those specific people again. Last, shame on absolutely everyone who works in the medical field and well, everyone, who gives someone a hard time about masking.
Unfortunately, this sounds like you’ve been selected to be the target of the “office bitch.” If it’s just a volunteer position, I’d leave and send a letter to anyone higher up that you were bullied out of volunteering. I’ve never seen this situation get better.
You are NTA for wanting to quit a job. For any reason, ever.
These are micro aggressions. The fact that the coordinator felt the need to stop her presentation to scold you for no good reason in front of everyone was unnecessary and unprofessional. Her other example of you flipping through your notes as proof that you weren’t paying attention was also ludicrous. Unfortunately, you’re not going to win this battle. But the good news is since it’s a volunteer position, you can leave with little to no consequence. So find something else with a better fit from the start. Let Nurse Ratchet rule her roost without you.
Ugh. I can’t stand people who take on volunteer positions to have power. I went on a free tour of a historical home. The volunteer-guide was snappy, yanking the arm off a grown man because he peeked down a hall. Can you volunteer somewhere else?
Report her to the supervisor.
Hospitals are known to be cesspools of nastiness. Bully girls rule. I doubt you have done anything wrong especially if you have worked in costumer service position before
Middle aged woman are the worst I have just retired and am so happy I don’t have to deal with the shit anymore.
Just remember that their nastiness will follow them where they go and feel sorry for them. At a distance is best😃
The mentor sounds rude and demeaning, it was not appropriate for her to comment on your facial expression or face in front of others in such a way. Seriously, report her. I’ve worked in healthcare for 15+ years. Alternatively, you can briefly and non-emotionally confront her next time she decides to make those inappropriate comments. You gave a good summary of your interaction with patients, you are asking questions, engaged and making eye contact. There are many provider’s who never do that much. They are being WAY too harsh, how are people supposed to LEARN????
The mentor sounds rude and demeaning, it was not appropriate for her to comment on your facial expression or face in front of others in such a way. Seriously, report her. I’ve worked in healthcare for 15+ years. Alternatively, you can briefly and non-emotionally confront her next time she decides to make those inappropriate comments. You gave a good summary of your interaction with patients, you are asking questions, engaged and making eye contact. There are many provider’s who never do that much. They are being WAY too harsh, how are people supposed to LEARN????
I’m sorry this happened. Please dont give up. Talk to HR. Tell them your goals and why you’re there. Are you under any stress? Do you suffer from any depression? I was just reminded of an interview I had when I was told I was too serious for a job and lacked personality but happened to be in the midst of a depressive episode. I am now more mindful of how I come across when I’m dealing with depression and have to interact with people (it’s awful but I have to do it). I wish you the best! Don’t give up. The world needs good hearted people who care in the medical field who want to give it their all.
I used to get told this in meetings as an executive. I naturally have the famous resting bitch face and sometimes I narrow my eyes in concentration that makes me look annoyed to some people. I’ve since experienced that comments on facial expressions only ever happen to young women. It’s a weird hang up some people have and it’s a lot more about them than you. Trying to manage someone else’s literal face because you don’t like how it looks is messed up. If you think the coordinator can’t be convinced and it’s making you unhappy, choosing to quit is completely fine and is their loss. I hope you find a better opportunity where you’ll thrive!