Growing up, mom was always an insane religious nutjob, which ensured I grew up a staunch atheist. Whatever, this is not about her forcing me to go to church and pray and pretend I believed in god growing up. No, this is about us as adults.
We have a very bad relationship on the best of days, so we rarely see each other. She also profoundly hates the fact I’m an atheist, she is constantly trying to proselytize me and my husband when she is around. I keep telling her to knock it off, but I tolerate it. Last year, I visited her place, and she SCREAMED at me that I NEEDED to say grace before eating otherwise she’d kick me out. “THIS IS MY HOME! WE WORSHIP THE LORD UNDER MY ROOF!” We live over 1000 miles apart, and my plane return ticket was three days later so being kicked out would mean having to scramble to find a hotel at best, so I bit my lips, ignored my principles and said grace before every meal as if I were back to being her obedient whipped child.
Lately, she visited me for the first time. Again, it was tense with a lot of arguing and all, but whatever. Then comes meal time. She sits down, joins her hands, starts saying grace. “You’re not allowed to say grace,” I said. She SCREAMED, HOWLED, YELLED, she looked teary-eyed and having a complete mental breakdown over it, but I never budged. “This is my home, we do not worship any fictional deities under my roof.” I told her that I’d kick her out if she said grace even once, and like it would have for me, this would have meant her losing hundreds of dollars, and it’d have turned a “vacation” into sitting in a hotel room waiting for the plane back home. She was waaaayyy more stubborn about this than I was when I was the one being forced to say grace. And I’m sure she prayed fervently to her imaginary buddy in the clouds to compensate every day in her bedroom.
My husband did not undermine me when mom was here, but as soon as she left, he confronted me about this. He thinks I was pointlessly cruel to my mother, because “Even if it’s all superstition, she actually believes that magic is real and you’re hurting her by denying her her little spells and rituals.” Also, he said, she was cruel to me by denying me my beliefs, but that does not justify me denying her her beliefs in turn – he claims we are better people than her and it’s our responsibility to not stoop down to her level. It turned into a serious argument with my husband, his stance being “She treated you wrong, it’s up to you to break the cycle by responding to her abuse with kindness” and my stance being “Abusers don’t get the privilege of being treated kindly.” Neither of us budged from our positions since then, and yet my husband continues to insist that we should keep inviting my mom because “family is irreplaceable” blablablah. He has a great family whom he loves and who love him – he refuses to accept that not every family situation can be salvaged by being kind to your parents until they “see the error of their ways.” AITAH?
Comments
You and your husband each have a valid point of view. But I find that since it’s not his mother and her trauma, he doesn’t have to decide on that.
On the other hand, personally, I think you are right. It’s good that your mother gets a taste of her own medicine. It’s annoying to have other people’s personal beliefs imposed on you, huh? Well now your mother knows what it feels like.
And you definitely don’t have to crash in your own house. What your boyfriend doesn’t understand is that today she’s forcing you to pray before meals, tomorrow she’ll demand that everyone go to mass, and in a few years, she’ll forcefully indoctrinate your child. These people, you extend your hand to them, they eat your arm.
NTA cut off your mom. If your husband thinks that you should just submit to abuse because “family” then he should get the chop too
NTAH. These ’kill them with kindness’ people like your husband confuse and frustrate me in equal measure. Why maintain contact with someone when the relationship between the two of you is this bad and makes you this miserable, when you can just cut them out of your life? Like…what do you gain from it? Her presence in your life doesn’t bring you any joy or value. You don’t seem that you like or even respect her, I’m not blaming you for it, it’s just an observation. So why would you keep her in your life when her mere presence makes you so miserable?
The husband is right about breaking the cycle. But there are times, like this, where flat out giving someone like mom here a healthy and overdue taste of their own medicine is exactly in order. I do give the husband props for waiting for the hellspawn to leave first.
Are you the ah? Oh yes, yes, you are, but in my take on it, it’s EXACTLY what your mon deserved. And it’s awesome!
NTA. I’m a strong believer in you need to be able to take what you dish out. And respect other people’s believes the way you expect yours to be respected. So – well done!
NTA
Your mother isn’t praying over her food with her whole heart, she’s putting on a performance to show dominance over you. This isn’t about faith, it’s about being a dick. I say grace for my food, but if I’m in company and I’m not sure of how the grace will be received, I say it in my head and it works just as well.
Your husband needs to follow your lead on this. Especially if you’re thinking of having children with him. You may get to a point where it’s not safe for your children to have a relationship with your religious abuser and he needs to accept it and not try to go around you. Children need wider relationships than just their parents, sure, but having no grandparents is better than having grandparents who put the parents on edge and persist in religious abuse.
Your husband needs to put himself in your shoes. He can’t imagine ever cutting his family off but that’s because they are nice people. Your mother is not a nice person and relationships are not transferrable. If you cut off your abusive mother it doesn’t mean you’re going to insist he cut off his kind and considerate relatives too. It is wrong of him to lift up your mother’s feelings above your feelings. You are his family and if family is that important to him, he should defer to you.
If it was my mother, I would sit silently and let her perform her religious rites if it soothes her soul and prevents an argument. I’d even mutter an Amen if it pleased her.
Clearly you don’t spend much time with her. Is it that much of a sacrifice to just let her say grace once in a blue moon? It doesn’t mean you have to believe in it. She can’t control your mutinous thoughts.
NTA, but I would have just told her that there will be no hand holding and she should just say grace in her head while you just go on with your meal.
I’m from a similar background as your husband where I adore my family, they adore me and can’t fathom how dysfunctional families come to be.
My best friend comes from a dysfunctional family. It was mind-blowing for me to try to even picture what she was telling me about her family dynamic, but just because I don’t understand it or have experienced it, it doesn’t mean I can’t be empathetic or do my best to know that she knows best on how to deal with them and I should just be there for her to vent, as I might not be the best one to advise.
Your husband needs to understand that the bubble he grew up with is just that, his own bubble, and not everyone grows up the same way. Just because something works with his family, doesn’t mean it works with yours. I understand where he comes from and that his advice comes from a good place, but in the end, he didn’t grow up with your mom, so he needs to learn to back down and trust that you know better.
Same thing with future kids, if you think it’s not safe for your kids to be with her, he should know that no one knows better than you because YOU were the one who lived through it, not him. And yeah, kids need their grandparents, but they’ll be fine with just your husband’s parents, if that’s what you’d prefer.
Very petty …. congratulations, I salute you !
You are not the asshole. Never let her think she can prey to her sky fairy when in your house. She will go on and on and on. Set boundaries and stick to them
NTA but please go VLC and stop going to each other’s homes.
NTA – why should you be forced to pray to a god you don’t believe in whilst in your own home. All you did was do exactly what your mom did to you when you were staying in her home.
Fair’s fair.
Why are you letting your husband dictate the terms of your relationship with your abuser? NTA, but you have a serious issue with your husband.
Oh, he didn’t undermine you in front of her? I guess that makes it okay that he steamrolls your relationship with your mother and undermines every other aspect of your behavior with her.
NTA, your house your rules. We lived with my in laws for a few months in 2023 and they are religious and say grace so we also did because it was their house and we didn’t want to cause a fight. Now when they come to our house and try and say grace my husband says nope not happening we don’t do that in our home.
ESH. You should cut off abusers, not turn into them.
Technically I agree with your husband, but I think this first time was needed to prove your point. Well done
Nta
NTA. Actions have consequences and your mum is a typical FAFO-victim.
You’re not wrong. Hypocrisy is a sin. Love that you called her out on her bullshit. Die on this hill.
Don’t waste any more time on a relationship that only brings negativity to your life. It’s not up to your husband either – he doesn’t get to decide on when or if you cut her off. In fact, I think it’s really fucked up that he thinks it’s ok for you to still be in relationship with this woman. What happens when she starts trying to secretly convert your kids??
I don’t think you or your husband assholes. I love when people get a taste of their own shit, BUT I don’t think your husband was wrong in saying that you are better than that. You did the thing your mother did to you aka you’re turning into your mother. I honestly would be slightly concerned if he didn’t say anything. I don’t think he was wrong to address that situation. I like that he addressed it in private while you did your thing then talked to you about it after. Now I don’t think he should have any say on if you cut off all contact with your mother. It’s not his relationship.
NTA but the issue is your husband. You see your mother scantly, this is a bigger issue to deal with presently because he doesn’t respect that you have your boundaries with YOUR mother. He is looking at this with a microscopic lens and if you two ever have kids he will go behind your back to “promote grandparent” relationship or some bullshit. Nip this in the bud, he is with you or against you and this seems like a hill to die on.
If you’re at the point of banning grace just cut contact. Jesus Christ. Why are you still dining with her?
Nta
What is saying grace but “public prayer” piety for show ?
Matthew 6:5-15
New International Version
Prayer
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
I would have just started eating my meal on both occasions. And told your mom she can choose to have her rituals, and you can choose not to….it’s free will. But that you can also choose to drop her from your life if she acts unhinged….would she scream at a restaurant? Maybe eat out more
NTA. If your husband want’s “family” he can invite his own. Your mom is an abusive bigot. You have every right to limit your contact with her in any way you like–it’s none of his business. Stick to your guns on this one. Tell him (don’t discuss-tell) that A) you will be the only one determining what sort of relationship you have with your mother and B) That the subject is now closed–and if he refuses to accept that, there will be negative consequences for your relationship. Good luck.
NTA.
Bless his heart husband is seeing your mother thru the lens of his own positive family environment and will struggle to see how triggering the religiosity is for you. Neither of you are wrong. Please don’t let your mother come between you especially as she is miles away and you aren’t going to be confronted with her often.
You could, if you haven’t already, explore your feelings and anger about her treatment of you with a therapist. Suggest this as this may help you personally to manage the emotional toll of her ‘antics’ or overwrought religious sentiments as they appear to you. It would be great to categorise them as quaint and vaguely ridiculous but that will be hard without help given your response to her overt faith. She seems to want to confront you with it and that’s not coming across as a desire to bring you to Jesus but more a desire to bring you to heel.
Therapy may help you decide what you can or cannot change or will or won’t accept and develop ways to manage her visits.
Saying Grace is, on the surface, a little thing and this is how your husband may be seeing it. But he’s not taking into account what it represents to you which is impacted by the past treatment. Take care of yourself.
Wow. Please go no contact with your mother. Just do that and get that bitterness out of your life. She doesn’t need to be subjected to your anger and adolescent butt hurt. You’re both intolerant of the other’s core beliefs and seem unable to have a meaningful, respectful relationship around that difference. Just quit hurting each other and being angry. By the way, your husband’s right. YOU have the power to change things. YOU can own your beliefs and values, formed partly out of seeing and rejecting those of your mother, because you’re an adult; you can do that without denigrating your mother, also because you’re an adult. But if you can’t or won’t, then just cut contact and focus on the family you have now. Yes, you might feel bad about it and people may judge that decision but just own it and move on.
Please don’t have children with this man until this situation is 100% resolved.
Go NC with your mom — regardless of what your husband wants. Make him delete her contact info from his phone. If he won’t do that, you have a SERIOUS husband problem.
I understand WHY your husband feels this way, but that’s irrelevant. This isn’t his relationship to control. He has no place in it AT ALL. He needs to respect your position on this and let go of what he wants — now and in the future. If he can’t agree to that, you cannot have children with him (ever).
We go the high road when they go low, eh? Seems to be working out for the democrats against the religious nut jobs on the right. /s
Nta.
Scorch earth
NTA I love your husband’s rose-colored glasses, but dam, it makes all mom’s flags look pink. I agree with you and definitely not him.
NTA. You aren’t hurting her, this is all on her. What comes around goes around. She created this entire situation. She thinks she is in control of you all the time. This is a lesson she needed to experience, even if she doesn’t learn.
If you feel the need to retaliate like this, why is she staying in your home to begin with?
It depends on if she was trying a group prayer, or praying to herself.
Firstly, even as an atheist myself? If someone’s saying grace, or praying in general… I will at least keep quiet, and let them do their thing. I don’t participate, but I don’t ruin it for other people. Especially if I’m not in my own home.
However, even in my own home… I’m not saying public grace at the table, but if my grandmother -who is also a religious nutball -wants to pray quietly or silently to herself? I don’t give a damn. It doesn’t affect me one way or another, she can do as she pleases as long as she doesn’t drag all of us into it.
And if your relationship has gotten to a point where you can’t let an old woman have that respect? Then go NC. I’m not saying she deserves that respect, but if the relationship has grown that toxic that you two can’t allow each other your own beliefs? Then just end it and move on. It’s unhealthy to continue, it’s stressful, and not doing either of you any good except getting more and more stuck on it.
NTA. Your house, your rules.
My sweet dear child.
Your husband is a complete moron.
If he told her that she was practicing magic she’d probably blow a fuse and scream that it’s not magic and all magic is devil worship.
You’re nta. Your husband however is one.
She definitely should have left your house and said grace loudly while leaving.
Your husband doesn’t get to dictate the kind of relationship you have with your mother. No one is owed kindness or a relationship for that matter. It seems like a toxic situation, why do you want her in your life at all.
NTA
Two wrongs don’t make a right. You could have let her say grace in peace while you guys start eating, which would be retaliatory as well.
You’re both assholes.