I am an EMT who works for a private ambulance company that is contracted to provide 911 services in a busy city
Last week my unit was sent to a unknown medical run with the only information given was that a person was on the phone with family stating they didn’t feel good before there was a thud and the phone went silent. After calling back several times with no answer the family called 911. The address give was less then a mile away in an apartment complex so our on scene time was under 5 minutes with the fire department being 30 second behind us. We get to the door knock & call out but get no response. We try the door its lock along with all the windows. The FD captain has dispatch send the family’s number over to his cell phone to inquire if there’s a hidden key somewhere. The family tells us that the main office should have a spare. One of the firefighters goes over to the to ask for it.
When the firefighter returns he tells us that the manager wants to talk to whoever is in charge. She explains that she can’t give us the key without the tenants permission. The Captain tells her the tenant is having a medical emergency & can’t give that permission. After several mins of back & forth the captain tells her either give us the key or we’re going to break down the door. The manager says she wants to help us but she doesn’t want to be held liable if she lets us in & there’s no emergency. Frustrated FD captain tells his crew to get the tools ready.
Due to safety reasons & protocol the FD is unable to preform forcible entry without the sheriffs present to clear the scene without exigent circumstances. (I.e Hearing someone asking for help, seeing a person down from a window). Because it was super busy day it took the sheriffs 15ish or so mins to show up. The second sheriffs arrive FD went to work on the door and had it open in 10 seconds
As soon as we go in we find the patient on the floor unresponsive agonally in an abnormal heart rhythm which soon turns into no rhythm. FD & my paramedic partner start CPR while I run to the ambulance to get more equipment. As I exit the door the manager ask if everything is ok. I tell her no everything is not ok. I return with the equipment to the apartment plug myself in where I’m needed and we proceed to work up the patient for over an hour before calling it.
As we pack up our gear and used equipment I go outside to get a sheet to cover the deceased. The sheriff ask if we’re going be to be transporting the patient to the hospital to which I reply no he’s gone. We spent 20 mins arguing with the manager to give us the damn spare key but she didn’t so now this guys dead because of it.
Unknown to me the manager was standing around the corner just of sight & heard my comment. She let out a very loud gasp & started to cry before walking down the hallway to her office.I was told to apologize or be written up by a supervisor but I stand by my statement and refused. AITAH?
Comments
NTA. Push back legally against your supervisor so she cannotvwrite you up
Former EMT here, I think ESH.
So, usually the front office has policies that make it illegal for them to open an apartment without tenants consent. But there’s basically always exception for life saving care. Her non-compliance is both morally and legally questionable and damn near willful obstruction.
Your frustration is valid, it really does suck not being able to save someone. But you should’ve known better than to place that kind of blame on someone. Even if they were at fault, that is SO heavy to carry, and just not your place. It’s just the kind of thing you say in private.
It really seems like both the apartment and FD had protocols that made this a really difficult situation to navigate. They should be changed and altered to avoid this in the future, and I do think it’s good to have a conversation about this. Not enough places have clear policies regarding emergencies
NTA. What you said was the truth, not just an opinion. If you were able to get to the person right away you had a better chance to save them. The manager decided it was better to save herself on liability then opening the door to a suspected medical emergency (I’m assuming if it wasn’t an emergency your team would’ve explained why you were there first)
NTA. You didn’t say it to her face, you said it to the Sheriff. If the office manager is going to be hanging around the scene she’s going to hear tidbits she wish she hadn’t and maybe come to the knowledge policies cost a life. It’s not a beautiful world and it’s not up to a paramedic to uphold that image for her.
NTA but I’d get your union rep involved if your supervisor is saying “apologize or write up” but sad reality is you’re right- the manager wasted valuable time saving efforts that if the family wanted too, they could sue her for failure to assist medical care.
Wow. What a goober! She couldn’t use a brain cell to let EMS in to help a tenant? OMGosh. I’d have been written up and led away for literally getting in her grill. Do not apologize and tell your supervisor that you’ll take the write up and have a written rebuttal.
NTA
I mean it’s gotta at least partially be your fault too, just bc its protocol to wait doesn’t mean you had to.
Tell your Supervisor that you refuse and if the want an apology they need to tell you in writing
NTA.
But I would apologize. Though not in a “I am sorry I said this thing” way, but rather in a “I am sorry you overheard it and it hurt your feelings” way. So, it’s basically a backhanded nonpology, but you won’t get written up.
NTA
Not your fault she was eves dropping and heard you vent in frustration.
The rules she was following are clearly for when family or something shows up. Not for exigent circumstances like a medical emergency.
FD Shows up and asks for the key to my neighbors house because they think there’s a medical emergency I’m giving it to them. I mean it’s a huge ass truck, a uniform… it’s pretty clear this isn’t just some asshole trying to steal the guy’s $299 Visio TV.
You said what you said to another first responder. That some civy overheard it and got all butthurt isn’t your fault.
NTAH.
You only stated a fact, and you didn’t do it to chastise that woman. She DID keep you from saving her tennent’s life by refusing you entry when anyone with two functioning brain cells would have opened the door for EMS.
She deserves to bear hearing that her lack of action killed someone and you should not have to apologize.
NTA, you’re right, if saying the truth is wrong then what the hell is the point?
So you’re mad at the manager for following their protocol, but not mad at the fire department for following essentially the exact same protocol?
YTA
that’s bullshit. The property manager handled this well, she did the correct thing.
Note that emergency services did exactly the same thing she did: THEY did NOT open the door, but waited for the sheriff. With the same good reason. Why blame her, and not them?
You should be fired for this- you caused a HUGE liability for your employer. Employing you any longer is too risky.
NTA Nurse here and you are 100% correct. Had you gotten in even 5 min earlier the patient’s chance would have been exponentially higher.
The manager followed the policies and was just doing her job. The fire dept. followed their policies and were just doing their job. You followed your policies and were just doing your job.
To be fair, you could have broken in and saved a life. The fire dept could have done the same. The manager could have done the same.
This person is dead because no-one wanted to break policies. All of you are to blame if you want to place blame. Everyone valued not getting in trouble more than saving a life. And in the end you decide to get in trouble anyway?
I’d write “I’m sorry your policy led to the death of a tenant”
Ugh. People commenting that you shouldn’t have used those words even to the sheriff. IDK When people are stressed, words come out and damn you were stressed while transporting a dead body. She was also stressed- she cried. It’s a terrible situation. This seems reasonable “I’m sorry you heard what I said to the sheriff. I was frustrated that I couldn’t do my job”
NTA. She needed to hear the truth, and you did not know she was standing there.
NTA. I’ve worked in property management before. Technically I wasn’t allowed to hand anybody a key without a tenants permission, but I would’ve went to the door with EMS to open the door myself in that situation.
NTA.
>The manager says she wants to help us but she doesn’t want to be held liable if she lets us in & there’s no emergency.
Rather than using common sense and unlocking the door for you she chose to argue with you. She wouldn’t have been held liable if there wasn’t an emergency because it was very obvious that you were who you said you were. She would have been following orders issued by EMS.
You could offer a non-apology, “Sorry you got your feelings hurt because of what I said, but I still stand by it.”