My (28 F) mother (57 F) is very bad about overstepping boundaries. I’m so sorry for how long this is about to be. 😭
I want to preface this by saying I love my mom. She is very involved with my boys (6 & 3) and they stay the night with her once a week. However, there has been a very consistent pattern since my oldest was born with her not respecting parenting decisions/choices. This isn’t even new with me, as my oldest (only) sister eventually cut ties with her due to a very strained relationship, with a HUGE history of my mother overstepping boundaries.
Now for me, I have felt as if I’ve been walking on a breaking bridge. I don’t want my kids to be stripped from my mother as well, so I tend to let things slide in the long run. I will say something in the moment, but she always has a rebuttal.
– I’ll tell one of my kids to stop doing something, she says “Oh he wasn’t doing that! He was just doing *insert action/thing.”
– I’ll ask them not to say something, she says “Oh it’s okay!”
– I’ll correct one of my kids & will be explaining why they should/shouldn’t be doing that, she says “Okay mom, we get it.”
Fast-forward to today, I had texted her saying we would come out to the campground today. She stays part time at a seasonal campground, they’re having events going on this weekend for the 4th of July. She mentioned she would be going to the store and asked if we needed anything. I said no, thank you though. I then asked if the food trucks would be there today, she said “Yes, but they won’t have anything that oldest son would like.” I said he would just have to get over it and find something he liked enough to eat. My son does not have food aversions or anything of the sort, he’s just stuck in the vicious chicken nugget & turkey/cheese sandwich cycle. Which is fine! We have those things at home & at grandmas. However, my husband (30 M) and I have both been trying to encourage him to try new foods. He has, and he’s even found new things he likes! Back to the issue. My mother said she would “Make him a sandwich and pack it.” To which I said no thanks, I want him to try the food that’s there. She insisted, and said “My name he won’t and it will be a waste of money. And he will cry and be hungry. We don’t need to make a point today. Everyone just needs to have fun. And I don’t mind at all making him a sandwich…alot of families do that as their kids don’t want that food.”
This is where the argument began, as I had already so no. I told her “Okay if you’re not going to respect my decision then we will stay home today. I’m not going to be parented over.” I know I may have jumped to being annoyed, but please bear in mind that this is far from the first time I’ve had to argue my parenting choices. I reminded her of this, and said my answer is no. She continued with “Really….all because I want to pack him a lunch that he will eat and enjoy….cmon!” I’ll be honest, this is the point where she starts to gaslight me and makes me feel crazy or unreasonable. I decided to stand my ground, replying “Because I as his mother am telling you what I do not want you to do and you’re saying you’re doing it anyway. This isn’t the first time we’ve had this conversation where I tell you to stop overstepping me. I’m just not letting it happen, I’m not being mean.” I try to be careful, because every time I argue with my mom, she has a history of going to my grandmother, who will then text me paragraphs about how disrespectful I am. We’ve had family WARS over private conversations between my mother and I. I get attacked by my mom, grandma, grandpa, and uncle. So, I try to choose my battles.
Anyway, sorry. 😂 This is how the “conversation” continues:
Mom: “Yes because I think it’s best for today”
Me: “You’re not his mother.”
Mom: “No I’m his grandmother and this is what grandma’s do”
Me: “And grandmothers need to respect mother’s decisions & not overstep when they’re parenting.”
Mom: “This is about a sandwich my name….and having a nice day. Nothing more ..no power play….just a fun day where everyone is happy.”
Me: “You’re right, it’s about a sandwich. I said no. It should be that simple, it’s a sandwich. If you can’t respect that I said no to a sandwich then that shows how often you think it’s okay to overstep my decisions.”
Mom: “A simple sandwich that will keep him from having a meltdown and not eating and him not crying and being hungry. You are making so much out of this.”
Me: “I’m not. I said no. You’re the one who keeps insisting and not respecting my parenting.”
Mom: “Well I’m getting food that he will like and eat.”
Me: “Then we will stay home.”
Mom: “I respect your parenting always.. but this is ridiculous”
Me: “No, you don’t. And this is proving it.”
Mom: “Yes I do”
Me: “If that was true then this would be the first time we’d be having this conversation, or better yet, it wouldn’t even be happening because you would’ve said okay when I said no.”
Mom: “You would rather waste your money on food he isn’t gonna wanba eat, and then he will cry and be embarrassed and ultimately hungry….rather then letting his gm make him a sandwich? This makes no sense to me”
Me: “I said no. This is going in circles. We will just stay home today. I’m sorry you’re not understanding my parenting but I don’t need to defend myself.”
Mom: “I think sometimes you need to just have fun and not make a point…it’s 4th of july!”
Me: “I will make a point, because it’s something I’ve been arguing about with you since he was a baby. I’m his mom. What I say gos. End of story.”
Mom: “Well I’m sorry we are not gonna have a fun day today…😪”
Now here’s where I think I may be the asshole.. I replied with:
“I’m going to be honest right now and say if this is how it’s going to be on the trip, then we will just go as the 4 of us. I do not want to spend my vacation arguing over every parenting decision I make.”
(For info, I’ve paid for everything. She has no money invested in the small trip.)
I’ve spent a lot of my life constantly being the “problem child”, the “argumentative” one, the “disrespectful” one. Here I am, a 28 year old mother of 2 wonderful, respectful, kind boys, and I feel like I’m constantly steamrolled. I’m afraid to stand up for myself due to retaliation from the whole family. They all gang up on me. Any time I do, I get compared to my sister who has been demonized due to her cutting ties with the whole family. I’d like to mention that my mother always tells everyone how much of a “spoiled brat” I was as a kid. So why should I parent the same way she did? I’m trying to break cycles and have a healthy relationship with my kids, while still being a responsible parent. They’ll tell me how amazing of a mother I am, then turn around and insult my parenting.
So, am I the asshole for telling my mother she can’t come on vacation because of a sandwich?
Comments
You’re absolutely justified in setting firm boundaries it’s your parenting, and grandparents who overstep can undermine your authority and confuse your kids Experts say setting clear expectations early, this is how we do it and calmly reinforcing them not debating every point helps maintain respect and harmony. Considering how often you’ve had to assert yourself, it’s completely reasonable to say “If my boundaries aren’t respected, you’re not invited” especially since you’re covering all the vacation costs. You’re not punishing anyone, you’re just protecting your right as a parent
Well…..it sounds like you and your mom hate each other. I’m interested to know why the sister left the family because I would bet on black she also hates your mother.
NTA imo bringing someone who is going to be nothing but a pain on vacation is just a waste of money and time to relax
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NTA. You’ve tried. You’ve stuck it out. You’ve held your tongue. You’ve picked your battles, but all that got you was her thinking she can get her way if she escalates enough. The people who have the biggest fit over boundaries need them the most.
And that applies to the peanut gallery waiting in the wings to fight her battles. It’s sad to lose family, but they’re not interested in her your side, just bullying you back into line. You’ll be fine without them.
You need to correct your mom just like you correct your children. Right in front of him as soon as she undermines you say something like mom what I say goes and what you say is being overruled. If you cannot take this discussion privately then please stop talking.
NTA. NTA. NTA.
You have been more than patient and tolerated more than you probably should have (but I get that). It is time to set immovable boundaries in place before she has totally missed up your children and taught them to be disrespectful and entitled jerks.
Go have a chat with your sister to give your courage. You have done the right thing. Both with the boundary associated with food and with the consequence.
NTA. Think u should limit time with gma until she learns to respect you
Your mother is like a bulldozer. She can’t quit controlling everything about you. NO is NO. It’s not about a sandwich but about respect. She’s like a dog who won’t let go. Not your fault. You canceling her out is the first step in getting her to respect your role as mother. No further justification needed. Do not cave. OP NTA, but you need to consider very LC/NC until she accepts there are consequences to trying to control you so arrogantly.
NTA. She can sit in timeout while you have your vacation.
It is time to set hard boundaries, with consequences and have the hard conversation with your mother. In college I learned about the you vs me language. For example, when I hear this, I feel like that versus when YOU say this, I feel that. By starting with YOU do, it immediately makes the person defensive.
I would set ground rules when you are all together. When you and their father are present, you are in charge, period, no exceptions. If that doesn’t happen, then we will leave, no explanation, no arguments no bargaining. It may take awhile for your mother to get it, but hopefully she will get the message.
It seems like you mom wants to be in control all the time. I get we all want to be right and have the last word, but sometimes it isn’t worth it. In your example above, I would have just said, we will figure out what our son is eating when we get there and just stop the conversation. State what you are going to do, and then let her deal with it. Maybe your mom changes and maybe she doesn’t. If she doesn’t then a hard decision will need to be made.
Even if your kids don’t hear the conversations with your mother, they will pick up on the tension. I would be the bigger person and set the example for your kids on how to handle these types of situations
Good luck!
There’s a reason your sister cut ties with the whole family, and it centers around the fact that the whole family ganged up on her. It’s none of their business. Yet they did it anyway. Maybe you need to follow in their footsteps. When they have no grandkids or great grandkids to look after or see, maybe that’ll wake them up that they’re the problem. Or maybe not. But you’ll be feeling a lot less stressed about your parenting and won’t have this conversation every goddamn time.
Stop arguing. Make your statement and follow-up with “this is no longer up for discussion. Every time you undermine my parenting, we will leave/I will hang up. We are no longer doing this. If you can’t be an adult about it, you will prevent yourself from being involved in all of your grandchildren’s lives.”
And any family flying monkeys that pile on, get the same. They bully you and you’ve been conditioned to give up every time. Now you need to stop doing that for your kids’ sakes.
NTA. Use her insult back at her. Tell her “you keep saying I was a spoiled brat, well that was the way you raised me. I’m raising mine so they won’t be that way.”
this is not at all about a sandwich. this is about your mother overstepping boundaries time and time again and you have finally had enough.
you are NTA.
and from my own personal experience, an overstepping ‘not-so’grandparent’ can and will run you through the wringer via family court and “grandparents rights” when you finally stand up to their bullshit.
not saying your mother will do that to you, but my own father did that to me. it was roughly two years of utter court hell. there’s many accounts online of this happening to others too.
😂. So older sis is NC cause of this bullshit and you just keep putting up it. Bravo for standing up to her but you haven’t hit rock bottom with her yet.
Your sister may be demonized, but she’s the clever demon. She got out when things got unbearable. And now your family is doing their collective best to get you to cut ties, too. Maybe you should save yourself the headache and just do what they’re trying to get you to do and actually cut ties. Your life will be that much easier.
NTA. This is not about the Iranian yoghurt or grandmother’s sandwich, it’s about a much bigger underlying issue.
NTA try the broken record technique. Don’t argue with her and get sidetracked.
“I’m the mom, what I say goes”
What ever she says, keep saying that.
Or say <name husband> and I are the parents what we say goes.
Keep repeating the sentence. After a while she’ll stop. I have used this with impossibly people with great success.
Good luck!!
NTA, and from now on, the second she does this, you leave, or you tell her she has to leave. No “letting it slide.” Give her advanced warning. There will be consequences to this, and it’s her choice if she keeps doing it or lets you parent without interference.
NTA – and you know it. I know a lot of grandparents do things they are ASKED nicely NOT to do and just ignore their requests. Unfortunately, a lot of grandparents are depended upon for support, so the grandparents believe they can do whatever they want.
From my perspective (74M, happily married for fifty years), your mother is incredibly unreasonable here.
You aren’t telling your mother she can’t come on vacation because of a sandwich; you are telling your mother she can’t come on vacation because she is overstepping the very reasonable boundaries that you have established as a parent, is showing incredible disrespect for you as a parent, and is basically setting a bad example for her grandkids.
My daughter has two wonderful kids, but I never interfere with her or her husband’s decisions on raising their children.
Stand your ground!
One daughter has already cut ties, and you’re the problem? Do they not see the common denominator here?
Oh, wait, they don’t want to have to listen to her shit so you get to be the scapegoat. Yay for you!
You’re not the asshole, and it’s not about the
Iranian yogurtsandwich. Good job setting your boundaries and letting your mother know there are consequences if she doesn’t want to get in line with YOU being your children’s parent!NTA
Nta but you actually need to sit down with yourself decide on some hard boundaries and changes that YOU are going to make. And how you’re going to enforce that.
For instance, this conversation went on too long. Once you said no, and then she argued, you say “ive said no and thats the end of it. You’re refusing to be respectful so its best we dont meet up today. Maybe we will try and do something next week. Speak to you later bye.”
When you’re with the kids and she tries to override you, that’s when you say “hey kids were done visiting grandma today. Time to go”.
Stop giving her so much access to your kids, it’s gonna cause you problems (if it isn’t already). Don’t send the kids over every week. Cut it down to every other week or once a month. Or no unsupervised visits.
Vacations are supposed to be relaxing, she stresses you out. So take her at all.
Ntah: my mom did that once to me, I simply stated ok, but I’m the mom, it’s my decision. My dad overheard and backed me up. Later I talked to her and told her that I genuinely appreciate her opinion, but the final decision has to be on me. She agreed. Your mom does not respect that bounds line and I doubt she ever will. She’s used to getting her own way. I totally get why your sister cut ties. She in general is a bad influence on the kids, by making it seem like her opinion is more important than their own mothers.
NTA. UpdateMe.
As a grandmother of two, respectful, kind girls, I never overrule my daughter and SIL parenting. If they say this is what we are doing, yep you got it! I am not going to harm that parent-child relationship by inserting my own opinions on what should happen with their child.
You are the parent and what you say goes. NTA, at all! Good on you for standing your ground.
NTA. I think you already know this but the reason it’s this bad is because you allowed it for so long. I had to deal with parents overstepping when I was in my 20’s and I had allowed it for too long so I say this with some understanding of your current situation. If you want it to get better you have to stand your ground you have to call out every time she oversteps. You have to tell your grandmother to but out this is nothing to do with her and if. Sad he had raised your mother to respect boundaries you wouldn’t be in this situation. You have to be prepared to put your mother on a time out every time she oversteps. If you can hold your ground eventually she will get that access to her grand children is only obtained through following the rules. Every time she tries to argue you simply state I’m their mom and I make the rules. Every time she oversteps literally get up gather the children and leave.
Your probably going to say your worried about how this will affect your children but your children will see their mom standing up for herself. Your children will see you setting and enforcing boundaries. They will see you stand up to someone who undermines you. What they see now is that if you throw a tantrum and get pushy you can ignore rules and get your own way. Which do you think will make them better adults?
NTA, obvs. You must be so frustrated!
As someone who deals with a similar dynamic with my mother (not around kids, but life decisions in general) I have an exercise you might want to try. It worked really well between this ‘strong minded’ argumentative’ daughter and her know it all ‘coming from a good place because I’m right and you’re wrong’ mother- we came up with a safe word.
My mom truly couldn’t identify when she was being- just TOO MUCH. It was easier for me to establish a hard boundary identified by a single word. Mine was blueberries. When I said blueberries, she had to STOP. Immediately. Or I would leave. And I stuck to that. It was tremendously helpful for her brain to have that hard stop switch. Our relationship improved. She was able to start to recognize when she was becoming overbearing and self regulate. But there were many arguments and awkward moments (just ordered? Too bad- I’m grabbing the waiter, canceling my food and leaving). You have to stick to your boundaries as firmly as you are asking her to. I hope this makes sense and might be helpful.
No matter how you do it, it’s time to take control and put the rails back on the grandparent role. Trust your instincts. She may have been a mother, but so are you now!
NTA
You will make a big deal out of a sandwich, an outfit, a word, a look, WTF you want to because they are your children. This conversation should have stopped at you saying he’d have to find something to eat at the food trucks. Or she could have asked if you wanted her to bring him a sandwich instead and then you would tell her no.
I think it makes sense for you to take this vacation alone. And to stand up to your mom and your whole family. You don’t owe anyone an explanation. You don’t have to try to convince them you’re right. You just make the decision and they deal with it. You tell your mom no, grandma doesn’t like it, you thank her for sharing her thoughts and leave it at that, unless you choose to ignore her completely. You don’t have to engage in their drama-mongering.
I’m.proud of you for taking this stand. Keep it up.
I think you belong on the EstrangedAdultKids sub. This isn’t about a sandwich. It’s about your mom not respecting you as a person or your boundaries. I really like the book “adult children of emotionally immature parents” by Lindsay Gibson, the first 2/3 of the book are great. I cried reading the first chapter because I felt so seen and validated. I always felt that I had a “good” home. I was fed, had shelter, wasn’t SA’d, and wasn’t abused other than spankings (which was common in the 80’s). I also wasn’t listened too, was told “because I said so”, “I’ll give you something to cry about”, “looks like you ate one too many candy bars this summer”, among other things. They stole my college money. I was put in the middle of my parents fights. My dad told my mom he was leaving her and she came to us- her teenage daughters- in hysterics. There are many other examples, but you get the point. If I had read this book before going NC I would probably be VLC and still have a very small relationship with them today.
Boundaries are about what you will do – you can’t control her. So not going to the campground was perfect. Your boundary was you won’t see her if she doesn’t respect your rules. Great boundary.
I would stop the sleepovers. I would leave any time she doesn’t respect your rules. I would end the phone call any time she is disrespectful. Same with the grandparents. Do not respond to disrespectful and/or argumentative texts. Get off the phone if they are disrespectful.
She’s exactly the reason you’re having a problem with him and food in the first place.
And I guarantee you, NOW is the time to shut it down.
One of my kids was weaponized against me in a similar manner, and he’s 27 now… and no, it’s never gotten better.
Only massively worse.
NTA- Time to put grandma in a timeout. She’s not getting it, and she needs a reality check. And if that means two daughters shut her out, she has no one to blame but herself.
NTA, but consider if you and your husband can move and put space between you. The farther away she is the better.
Wow. NTA. I’m a grandma and the only time I would even CONSIDER butting into my son/DIL’s actions is if they were somehow putting the child in danger. Your mom is ridiculously overbearing.
You’ve got to stick with the boundaries you’re setting. And maybe make it clear to your kids that grandma doesn’t get to make decisions that contradict parents; if they need an answer to something, ask a parent.
NTA. But OP, look at your post and all of your comments. She uses her mom, dad, siblings, whoever to help her fight her battles, and she is teaching your son to do the same thing. This is completely unhealthy in itself, but also teaching him to not respect you at all. For your kids’ sake, please put in a strong time out for her and if you decide to let her back in, only with supervision. I say this as a person who did not stand up to my mom, let her teach my kids to disrespect me, and spent years working on and fixing my relationship with my son that I allowed her to decimate. I wish someone would have sat me down to show me what was happening before it was too late.
As soon as you said your older sibling doesn’t have anything to do with your mom FOR THESE SAME REASONS
I decided you were probably the asshole for allowing this to go on for so long and encouraging your mother to continue her bad behaviour by minimizing it and dragging this bullshit out for years.
ALSO involving your children in this dynamic.
They get to watch their mother being disrespected for years while you play this little game with your mom until your resentment grows to the point where you don’t go on vacation because of a sandwich.
It had to happen.
NTA for FINALLY setting a boundary, but your choice of time and issue is…. well… sad.
NTA. Set the boundaries even if they seem small and insignificant. You are the parent, not her, and until she realizes that, she gets no access to your family. You and your sister can be a united front on this.
NTA and that conversation was an argument that went on for far too long.
She will turn your kids against you. She is starting right now.
She should never babysit, never be alone with your children ever again, and never see them more 4-5 times a year if you decide not to
Cut her off. You must break her influence over them. Do it now while they are young. No need to make an issue of it. Distract them.
As per Reddit lore, “It’s not about the Iranian yogurt.”
NTA you did everything perfectly. She won’t budge. Ok, time to throw down.
No vacay if you can’t follow simple house rules.
I am so glad my mom was not like yours. Now my son’s paternal grandmother was and she found out real quick when I said something I meant it. One actual disagreement I looked her in the eye and said “I am a 25yr old grown ass adult raising MY son my way you can respect it and keep your opinions to yourself or not see him. My mother does not even tell me how to raise him because I’m his mom not her” still had to give her lengthy time outs over the years and they have a spotty relationship because at 23 he now shuts her down
I’m not normally for “you” statements, but I’d tell your mom “it’s your fault that you don’t get to see your grandchildren” “it’s your decisions that have led to this”
Gah. I couldn’t read even 10% without being exhausted by your mother. Set those boundaries, you will have soooo much more peace!
“thou shalt not covet thy daughter’s parenting role”
NTA
“I respect your parenting always.. but this is ridiculous”
Right there in that sentence, she didn’t respect your parenting. “always”? How about “not even in this sentence”?
Sounds like you need to reduce her interaction with your children.
Right now they spend the night once a week, I would reduce that to every other week during the summer, then come fall down to once a month. And if she is still acting this way by October, no move overnights with grandma.
I would stop arguing with your mom; this is how she tries to “win” her point of view or wear you down.
YOU-This what we are doing with my children.
MOM-but, we can do this instead.
YOU-nope, I ‘m hanging up now, talk to you another day. Then hang up.
Also, when her fling monkeys call – DO NOT ANSWER!
There is nothing to argue or fight about. YOU & DH are the parents, no one else gets a say about anything to do with your children.
I would start with your vacation. Leave your mom at her house, and just your cute little family goes on vacation!
Have a great summer!
Good luck
Omg. At last on this sub, an actual person who has common sense, integrity and boundaries that they actually enforce!!
I think you may be as allusive as big foot or the Loch Ness monster.
NTA. You’re doing a wonderful job as a parent and as for the flying monkeys your mom sends, just don’t engage and block them. You really don’t need these people in your life.
Your mom is right. She is sorry. Very, very sorry.
NTA
I can see why your sister cut her off. You should seriously consider doing the same.
NTA. I can’t stand conversations like this. On and on and on like if she just pisses you off enough, you’ll just give in to get her to shut TF up.
So proud of you for not giving in. She needs to learn that you mean what you say, and she will receive consequences if she ignores that. The little passive aggressive dig at the end proves she needs it.
“We are not having a fun day today because you refuse to accept a simple no. So until you do, you will be on a timeout.”
Restrict her access enough BECAUSE of her actions, (make that clear even if she acts dense) and she will either realize her place, or you finally get peace to parent as you see fit. Really her choice.
I don’t want to come off as being a huge jerk here, but…
>I’m trying to break cycles and have a healthy relationship with my kids, while still being a responsible parent.
You can’t break this cycle if you’re still inside it with your kids. You’re allowing your mother to continue this cycle with your children, they even look to her to undermine you when you try to set a rule! It sounds like you’re really trying here, which is admirable, but every time you let your mother do this, the cycle goes around again.
If she’s this nuts about a sandwich, I think it might be best to go LC with her and your other extended family members for awhile. NTA.
I’m a grandma to two adorable little girls who own my heart.
Mom and dad are boss. What they say goes. You may not like to see your grands cry because they didn’t get their way, or they’re being corrected, but mom and dad are going home with those cute little demons-in-the-making if you, as a grandparent, undermine their authority to make decisions and set limits.
Undermining your kids is like saying you did such a shitty job raising them that you can’t trust them with the care and feeding of small humans.
Remember, they’ll be picking your nursing home.
Follow your sister’s lead. Mom needs a timeout and you need to stop letting her have your kids unsupervised. She doesn’t respect ou as the parent of your kids, grandmoms don’t get access to the kids, if grandmom doesn’t follow the rules.
“Mom, the reason I got married and had a kid was so I could be the adult and not have to listen to you anymore. You had your time as the overbearing mother. And it was glorious. Whatever you said was the law. But it’s over now, and it’s my turn, and you will just have to accept it or accept not seeing me or your grandkid anymore. I’m glad we had this talk.”
NTA
If your mother says you were a “spoiled brat” simply nod and agree and say something like “I blame my parents,” or “my mother didn’t know how to raise me right,” or something that sends it right back on her. Agree with your horrible relatives and tell them your mother isn’t good at raising children, because look how you turned out, or something like that. It should take some of the wind out of their sails
NTA at all. I understand your desire for your kids to have a relationship with their Grandmother but do you really want to keep having these battles? Better to LC and cut back on the time they spend with her.
NTA. 100 percent justified.
I’ve also had to have several “Come to Jesus” talks w MIL, most notoriously for allowing my toddler to sit in the front seat while driving, no car seat. They did the same thing with the niece who just literally refused a car seat at all times, and grandma just let her.
Yeah stfu I don’t care about your “we didn’t have car seats in the 70s” bullshit.
What a great opportunity this would have been for the kid to try something new? I can imagine kids would LOVE to pick something out of a food truck.
NTA. To be clear, you aren’t doing this because of a sandwich, it’s because of her constant disrespect.