I am myself a man over 30. 37 to be precise. I use to be an angry young men. I don’t know where it came from, but it had a lot of outlets. Pretty stereotypically, I was angry at anyone who could be labelled the man. I also loved showing off, even if I wasn’t all that impressive. I could hold my liquor really well, and I desperately wanted to be someone who was cool and got with a lot of girls.
It’s such a relief that all of that is just gone now. The person I was 20 years ago feels quite alien to me right now.
I work as a teacher. There is a lot of discourse now about the education system failing boys and how there needs to be more male teachers.
While I am generally well liked by my students, I don’t feel like being a man makes it all that easy to relate to them. Firstly, I am old now and don’t think and feel the way I used to. Secondly, I grew up in a time where social norms and gender roles were loosening and taboos were broken, while the kids I work with are of a much more reactionary generation.
In One Bullet Away Nate Fick describes being greeted by happy women, old men and young boys at the end of the US invasion of Iraq. The young men, however, mostly looked at them with a burning hatred.
Fick seems to think young men are difficult for both women and older men to relate to, because they have an anger and a pride that is unique to them.
Do you think there is some truth to that? Do you easily relate to the youngsters?
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Dating and housing market seems to be atrocious for everyone.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/masculinity-debate-are-dating-apps-creating-a/id1291423644?i=1000701533754
My friend sent this to me because we both have young boys.it really sheds some light on masculinity and how to be a good man/mentor.
Got a lot of younger friends from BJJ, and my students are mostly aged 16-19, and they’re super easy to relate to. Talk to them, joke with them, show them how to choke someone, they’ll warm up to you real fast.
I understand exactly what you mean. Except for me it didn’t really manifest as literal anger and pride, but it came from the same place. It’s more like a resentment of anyone who seems happier than you.
I work as an educational consultant. At times I’ve specialized in working with young men with emotional issues. I work with girls too, but I’ve had quite a lot of success building rapport with young men whom others find difficult.
The main thing I do is I listen when they talk, and I never, ever, ever lie. I’m sure there’s some other stuff I’m not totally conscious of, but that’s really like 90%.
Boys do not automatically seek approval the way girls often do, and you do have to be more patient, but you’d be amazed how far you can get with them using just respect and a little common decency.
I think you really need to ask the question “why?”, instead of just looking at surface behaviors. Older men being too distracted to mentor and guide their sons is one of the primary reasons for young male anger. Listen to them. Be there for them. Remember why you felt how you felt as a young man. What were you truly seeking to express? What did you really need?
I’m 38 and don’t interact with the younger crowd as much but when I was younger we didn’t have all this “Alpha Male Beta Male Sigma” crap and I guess a lot of them pay attention to that.
I have a cousin and a brother in law who teach in high school and they’ve told me a lot of the younger generation think they’re going to be YouTube and Twitch influencers for their careers lol
I understand them, and sympathize with them. I remember feeling a lot of the same feelings when I was that age. I don’t necessarily “relate” though, they have to learn to deal with those feelings without causing others pain. It may suck, but it’s the way it is, just like women need to learn to deal with changes in their bodies. It’s part of becoming an adult.
I’m interested in your perspective on the younger generation that you claim is more reactionary, because I don’t get a ton of experience with them.
Youngest is my partner’s brother who is early 20’s and we get along pretty well but that’s a small sample size and a little older than you’re talking about.
In what ways are they reactionary and why do you think that is?
I taught high school kids and currently work with college students. What kept me relevant was the fact that I never forgot how I behaved and felt as a teenager. I always made them meditate and analyze whichever situation that upset or saddened them and then we started exploring ways to solve or at least accept them. Kids (and everyone for that matter) need people to actively listen to them and show that they are being heard and understood. If they are aware that you care, they’ll take your advice and try to improve. It can probably take a while, but they’ll thank you and treasure it. I don’t consider myself a warm or approachable person, but I think I’ve done a few things well when those high school kids added me in social media and kept in touch after all these years. My college students do the same and willingly want to spend time with me.
There is a certain generational trauma bring the first tech submerged generation.
Hey! Smart trt, maybe you’ll relate again?
As boys become men they often feel the need to assert their independence and autonomy as an adult. Part of that is resenting attempts by others to assert dominance over them, real or perceived. My suggestion to you is to model yourself as a mensch, a kindly, patient, almost grandfatherly figure who gives frank and honest guidance in a caring manner. Young men will accept leadership when they feel it was their decision to do so.
I’m exiting my cowboy phase now, it’s great to be chilled out
I’m also a teacher and I have no problem relating to teens.
You make it sound like you grew up in the ’60s. By my math, you grew up in the late ’90s, early’ 00s. About a decade before you, when I was that age, non-binary wasn’t a gender identity. A buddy my senior year was the first person in our high school ever to come out, and it was a huge fight. That Seinfeld episode about ‘master of your domain’ aired when I was in high school. You were on the tail end of that, but it was all good because times were good.
The big reason the kids are reactionary now is that times are bad. The economy is terrible for young men. You and I didn’t grow up in the shadow of the 2008 clusterfuck, like they are growing up now. Their anger is born of insecurity; they see men our age and assume there was an obvious place for us, that society welcomed is into full participation the moment we turned 18.
Their reactionary politics are an effort to turn the clock back, to go back to that time so they can have the same advantages they think we enjoyed. I think if you were more frank about your experience growing up, you could help them see the error in their thinking.
In some ways, yeah, because I still deal with the anger and a lot of material issues a lot of young men do. In other ways it’s completely alien to me and always has been; even when I was younger I didn’t get caught up in bullshit about being proud or being a “real man” or the crazy drinking or women chasing or being “cool” – none of that mattered to me in the least, so the fact that so many younger dudes center their identity around it is not only completely unrelatable but I find it actively distasteful and unnerving.
On a professional level, yes and no.
They’re living in a world that us older folks paved for them. Don’t bring up things like 9/11 because you’ll get a “???” For a lot of it.
Can talk about technology but their earliest memories may be the Nintendo Wii or the Xbox 360, PS3.
They’re ambitious and risk taking, which shines a light on me that I have slowed down a lot as I have far more responsibilities than they do.
They’re on their 1st or 2nd life and I sometimes feel I have lived 4 lifetimes already.
As for anger? A lot of them are being hyper competitive and it’s really no different than when I was that age.
Boys aren’t taught to recognize and deal with their emotions healthily. There’s very high pressure to be perceived masculine. It is unsafe to not be seen manly enough. Emotions are not masculine, but anger is the most acceptable emotion for a man. Anger is often just bottled up stress, sadness or insecurity. They are convinced anger makes them strong.
Can relate to them? Well yeah, I guess. I don’t feel for them but I can understand them. I was the same.
Honestly I find them sooo annoying now that I rather pretend they don’t exist. Luckily my profession doesn’t require me to deal with them.
I’m 31 and most of my friends online are 19-23. I’m sure I’m interacting with guys younger than that regularly unknowingly. They’re closer to my current mindset than I care to admit. Perhaps I’m stunted, or I’m gravitating to them because they’re mentally older. It’s hard for me to gauge the age of men online unless they start blogging about girl problems, and then it’s very obvious.
I feel like men younger than me are just trying their best to keep their head above water and that’s it. They’re growing up too fast to cope with the horrible reality they live in. It’s hard for me to believe they even know how to express affection, or have paternal inclinations. Basically, I totally relate to them, far more than I relate to men 30+
I am 34 and dress very “alternatively”, have a lot of tattoos, etc, I listen to a lot of rap music, know a lot of the slang as a result of that, and some of the kids at my school think I am very cool and some like me less. I think what they respond to more than anything is authenticity. You guys dont need to like the same things to respect one another. Just keep being honest with them.
I figured out how to navigate emotions around age 10. Never got irrationally angry after that.
I couldn’t relate to a lot of the guys my own age for some time after that. But I did make some life long friends who were more like me in those days.
I can relate to them if they allow me time to find something relatable.
Unfortunately that’s primarily online and they don’t want to listen, or think that their problems are infinitely unique such that I couldn’t relate to them.
I think it all comes down to testosterone. As a 50+ year old man, when I run into the high-t guys who are all puffed out, spoiling for a fight, it just makes me laugh. They have no idea how much of their personality is controlled by their hormones. I was in the military with this guy who was is Mexico and got his ass kicked. He grabbed a gun and was going to go back and kill them, but a prostitute stopped him and gave him a free slice of pie, which allowed him to calm down and think straight. He told me that he believed that woman saved his life, and it’s that sort of behavior I understand I’m dealing with when it comes to younger men. (Or older men pretending to be hot-headed younger men)
Yes. Particularly angry young men. I was one, so it’s not hard to relate to them.