So as the title says.
For example: we are seeing a massive swing in higher education participation and achievement toward women, with women becoming the vast majority of colleges vs men. Clearly previous initiatives to get women to pursue education and careers worked. But if things keep going as they are trending would we need to reverse these initiatives and do outreach programs and scholarships and such for specifically boys, the same we did with girls? In a less 1 : 1 example, I have seen projects that are all or mostly female or black as being heralded as “diverse”, even if everyone is of the same demographics. So I’m just curious if these is ever a point that diversity initiatives need to be re-evaluated as to prevent over correction?
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So as the title says.
For example: we are seeing a massive swing in higher education participation and achievement toward women, with women becoming the vast majority of colleges vs men. Clearly previous initiatives to get women to pursue education and careers worked. But if things keep going as they are trending would we need to reverse these initiatives and do outreach programs and scholarships and such for specifically boys, the same we did with girls? In a less 1 : 1 example, I have seen projects that are all or mostly female or black as being heralded as “diverse”, even if everyone is of the same demographics. So I’m just curious if these is ever a point that diversity initiatives need to be re-evaluated as to prevent over correction?
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More women have been earning bachelor degrees than men since 1982.
Just looking at raw number of enrollment by sex is extremely misleading.
If you dive into the numbers men still dominate the “financially lucrative fields.” Furthermore when you look at financially lucrative fields such as healthcare, the most financially lucrative specialties in those fields are dominated by men, for example neurosurgery.
No. I don’t think things are becoming too diverse.
Isn’t it like 39% of women and 36% of men have at least a Batchelor degree? I don’t really forsee that become a problem.
are you just curious or do you feel unfaired against?
Enrolling men is actually a DEI initiative that colleges were doing.
DEI isn’t minority preferences. It’s trying to make sure every group has access.
https://feed.georgetown.edu/access-affordability/seeking-more-male-students-colleges-tailor-outreach-programming/
Why do you think a 1:1 ratio of men to women in higher education is “natural”? You’d have to be more specific about what you mean when you say “diversity initiatives.” The lion’s share of “diversity initiatives” oriented towards girls and women consists of just removing explicit barriers to entry.
In theory? Sure.
In practice, there’s so much systemic inequality that diversity programs hardly make a dent, much less go to far.
We should investigate and try to address why primary and secondary schools aren’t preparing as many boys for college, but I 100% guarantee you that it has nothing to do with DEI initiatives or the like.
I think diversity initiatives are almost universally harmless if not a net positive.
Yes. The goal of diversity and equality initiatives is to ensure that people with disadvantages are being helped.
If a program is so successful as to completely reverse an unequal situation, then it should be evaluated to see if it is still necessary. Taking the program away could just re-introduce the problem, for example.
In an ideal situation, these programs are constantly evaluated – in good faith – for their results… and not constantly politicized, sabotaged and attacked.
No, I do not believe “diversity” can go too far. Equity is the goal.
If men (for your example) start being under represented they become the active target for inclusion.
For the record yes, I do think we should raise girls the same way we raise boys. All kids should be brought up to be independently successful and not base their self worth or happiness on their relationships (or lack thereof) with other people, especially romantic ones. I remember this messaging when my sister and I were growing up and I think a lot of young men today need the same sort of coaching.
They absolutely can and absolutely have in some cases gone too far.
Anytime any standards change to be lower in the name of diversity it’s gone too far. The point is to make sure you are looking at people from all races, sexes, walks of life, etc. It is not to lower your standard to get those people in. There are plenty of ALL types of people who can meet any standard. There are so many amazing people of all types that is not a high bar.
it is possible your standards need to change if they exclude people for non objective reasons but they need to change across the board
In theory, anything can be overdone.
The thing that I don’t think people realize in terms of DEI is the wide reaching number of things that fall under that umbrella.
People tend to want to focus on race or gender but there is a metric ton of other things that would also be part of DEI. Every kid with an IEP or 504 plan on file with their school is part of DEI.
There might be very small pockets of DEI that need reevaluating but generally speaking there probably needs to be far more of it
You need to approach this more from the angle of understanding a) which behaviours, skills and attitudes lead to educational participation and success b) where and how these are or can be developed c) barriers to developing these and d) instances where possession of these attributes does not produce educational success.
Educators, sociologists, and psychologists and those who research these are all investigating this. I really recommend you stay up-to-date with this work as your primary source.
I don’t think any of these are completely irrevocable, but consider the below:
I mean… The issue with women was that they were legally barred from most colleges until the 70s or so.
The issue with men is that they think education is feminine and will hurt their masculinity… Somehow.
One of these reasons is not like the other.
https://celestemdavis.substack.com/p/why-boys-dont-go-to-college?r=1mcodg&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email&triedRedirect=true
Her research shows that the reason fewer men are enrolling in veterinary school boils down to one factor: the number of women in the classroom.
“There was really only one variable where I found an effect, and that was the proportion of women already enrolled in vet med schools… So a young male student says he’s going to visit a school and when he sees a classroom with a lot of women he changes his choice of graduate school. That’s what the findings indicate…. what’s really driving feminization of the field is ‘preemptive flight’—men not applying because of women’s increasing enrollment.” – Dr. Anne Lincoln
For every 1% increase in the proportion of women in the student body, 1.7 fewer men applied. One more woman applying was a greater deterrent than $1000 in extra tuition!
Unless we’re gonna ban Joe Rogan and all these other bro-podcasters who need their audience to be uneducated and so bigoted and deranged that they inflict a loneliness epidemic on themselves, what is there that can be done?
Hypothetically, yes, but I’ve never seen it even come close to happening.
I think it would be more accurate to consider a “diversity initiative” that resulted in less diversity as not going far enough rather than going too far. The goal of diversity is diversity, not just a different type of homogeneity. I think it is flawed thinking on the part of people who do not recognize this and I am somewhat dubious of people who have an issue with Affirmative action because it has also started reducing the number of Asian applicants not just white ones accepted to prestigious positions at various institutes.