No people have vastly different circadian rhythms. it’s more about the quality of sleep and the total amount of sleep rather than the time of day you sleep and wake up
Also, sleeping during light hours appears to be worse for sleep on the average than sleeping during dark hours. While this is true at a population level, that doesn’t mean it applies to you or any other individual. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6751071/
Not getting enough sleep is unhealthy. If you stay up late but don’t sleep in late, you will not get enough sleep.
Bad quality of sleep is also unhealthy. Everyone has a sleep pattern (circadian rhythm) for when their body naturally wants to be asleep or awake. Sleeping at a time your body wants to be awake leads to worse quality sleep, which is unhealthy. Most people have a circadian rhythm of sleeping at night and being awake during the day… which is why people who work overnight shifts often have more health problems than people on day shifts.
However, circadian rhythms can be different for everyone: some of us are natural “night owls” who don’t get tired until late, others are “early birds” who pop out of bed before dawn. So if you’re getting enough sleep and you wake up feeling rested it doesn’t matter when you go to bed.
It’s complicated. In general 8 hours of sleep is the gold standard for better health outcomes. What time you start that sleep cycle is less important.
But there is evidence that people working night shifts are more likely to die younger and have cardiovascular disease. The risk is greater the longer you are exposed to night shifts.
However things get complicated because there are a lot of variables to consider. For example you are FAR more likely to have sleep disturbance when trying to sleep through daylight hours. It can be more challenging to eat healthier because night shift workers often resort to convenience meals. Lack of sun exposure can cause depression. Additionally you may find it more difficult to socialise with friends and family while working the night shift and this impacts leisure and stress levels. More stress means you are more likely to make unhealthy decisions like smoking and poor diet choices.
You are likely younger as the time when you fall asleep moves back in your teens and shifts back to normal by 30.
3 AM is a good time to be asleep.
I think the time when you fall asleep matters to some extent because past say 10 PM you aren’t really doing anything “productive”. Vs productive hours in the morning are like after 8AM.
I mean maybe you don’t need those hours all the time but you do sometimes.
quality sleep for 4-5 sleep cycles (about 90 minutes each) is all that matters. when those hours happen doesn’t matter. however sleep inertia is a thing and our body will adapt to a set schedule.
don’t worry what shitty judgemental people think. long as you are taking care of your responsibilities to yourself and those who depend on you to live sleep whenever the hell you want
Consistency of sleep schedule can be beneficial, and certainly amount of sleep is important, but I’m not aware of anything suggesting how late you sleep is important. And, if you need the sleep, sleeping in is probably better than worrying about the consistent sleep schedule.
Your body has an internal daily cycle called circadian rhythm. It is set by many things, but mostly sunlight, eating schedule, and your work/school/activity schedule.
Your body expects you to sleep during the “sleep” part of your daily circadian cycle. If you are often awake when your body wants you to be asleep, YES, it is bad for you.
It affects your brain, reducing your attention span, increasing depression and anxiety. It affects your immune system, making you more likely to get more sick, more often. It affects your metabolism, changing the way you get energy out of food and increasing risks of obesity and diabetes. It even increases risks for several cancers.
Sleeping late isn’t inherently bad. Quality and quantity is what’s important. And sleeping at the same time consistently helps you sleep well. So you could argue it’s bad to sleep late if you don’t normally sleep late, but there are plenty of other variables that affect sleep quality as much or more.
There’s a couple hundred thousand + years of go to sleep at night wake up with sun. Graveyard shift documentation is clear on how bad the opposite is.
The “different circadian rhythms” idea isn’t accurate. It’s about 30 percent of people at the high end and 15 percent on the low. We don’t know what it used to be. Genes exist for being nocturnal in many animals, humans too, but unlike actual nocturnal species, it isn’t dominant in humans. Much was a side effect of the electric light and 100 years is nothing in evolution terms. You might be able to compensate for some things, but light/dark cycles are fundamental building blocks for hormone release and a variety of cascades for neurotransmitters.
The fact that SEASONS affect your mood and sleep should be a hint that there is a broader underlying mechanism in place.
If you wake up and go outside for thirty minutes and do that every day, you’ll set your new wake up time. Your brain records when it starts getting light and marks that as wake up time. Rolling out of bed to sit at a computer with the window next to you is a reduction of around 100,000 lux to 5-10k lux. Seeing light in the distance isn’t the same as it hitting you – sunlight also is critical to creating vitamin D, when you’re deficient there’s a host of issues with that as well.
So, it’s not just what 8 hour block (which matters), it carries a lot of hints to a lifestyle that can create compounding effects that act as multipliers to mental health, which ends up affecting the body as well.
Cool reset:
Set your alarm for when you want to wake up. Let’s say 6am. Wake up, go spend 30 minutes outside looking around, getting lots of light.
Stay up all night, no naps, nothing, drink coffee to get through the night, whatever, just don’t be half falling asleep, be active. At 6 go outside for 30 minutes.
Stay up through the day, stop stimulants. Go to bed when you want to start going to bed 900 or something. Sleep. Wake up at 6, go outside 30 minutes.
Now stick to your routine.
Bonus: dark therapy. You might not think about it much, but the odds you’ve been in true darkness in years is low. Tape blackout drapes (get these for bedrooms, life changing) or black trash bags over your window, towels at door crack. NO light. Try to go for silence for a few hours at least but you can set something to listen to that won’t stop with ads or “are you watching” because you can’t look at your phone. Sit in absolute darkness for 4-6 hours at the end of the afternoon.
Look up light and dark therapy, it’s not hippy bullshit it’s powerful fundamental stuff!
So the issue most people have with night shift schedules is that they try to adjust their sleep schedule to a day shift schedule on their days off. It’s more prominent with people on 3rd shift, but it’s an issue with 2nd shift people as well.
Say you normally go to bed at 3am, M-F. You’re likely waking up around 11am. Then come Saturday, you suddenly want to wake up at 8 am. You most likely didn’t get a full night’s sleep, but you’re not too bad off. Now you try to go to bed between 11pm-12am Saturday night, and wake up again at 8am.
Now you’re on Sunday night, and you again go to bed around 11pm-12am, because you’re starting to get used to it. Well, you work 2nd, so you don’t need to wake up at 8 am, but you do. Now, you’re starting to get a bit drowsy at the end of work, but you push through it and stay up until 3am, your normal working sleep schedule.
So here’s where the problem stays. You wake up at 8 amish again in Tuesday. So now you’re rocking around 5 hours of sleep. And maybe you get a bit more Tuesday night, but still not a fool night sleep.
Finally, around wed night, you get a full night’s sleep as you do Thursday night. But Friday night, you go to bed as normal and wake up at 8 am Saturday morning. And the whole cycle repeats.
Those nights when you’re not getting enough sleep because you keep messing with your sleep schedule is where the problem is at. And because you’re constantly switching up your sleep schedule, you tend not to sleep as well. And this is all unhealthy.
It’s really pronounced with people who work 3rd shift and try to completely flip their sleep-wake schedule
Not exactly in a controlled environment, but we don’t live in a controlled environment. I used to work third shift, and while I was young, and resilient it still took a huge toll on me.
Most bedrooms contain a window which makes keeping light out of the room difficult and that light will cause sleep issues. Even blackout shades don’t really get a room fully dark. Noise is another factor. Unless you live alone in the middle of nowhere, and even then it’s birds, and animals making various noises… but there are also some ambient noises at night so it’s not that big of deal. Living in a populated area though it’s random things like vehicles, lawn mowers, and all sorts of other environmental sounds. As somebody that has tried doing sound recording outside a recording studio it’s surprising how many random noises pop up. Then there’s the social aspect. I don’t know what it is about people but they just can’t seem to understand that some people have a different sleep schedule. “oh you’re free during the day” and think it’s ok to wake you up to take them to the airport because their ride cancelled.
In a perfect situation it should be fine, but we don’t live in perfect situations. Society is designed for people to sleep at night and be awake during the day, and it’s very hard to fit in outside of that.
Comments
No people have vastly different circadian rhythms. it’s more about the quality of sleep and the total amount of sleep rather than the time of day you sleep and wake up
going to bed late isn’t bad for you. Lack of sleep is.
Going to bed late (assuming you have to wake up for work or school) might mean you don’t get enough sleep.
I’m good with at least 6.5 hours of STRAIGHT sleep no waking up in the middle of the night
If you sleep at 3am and wake up at 11am that’s fine, people would assume you have nothing to do
No its not
What matter is the quality of sleep and
Enough sleep
Not necessarily, but morning people are generally healthier and happier. This may not be a causal relationship: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/01/benefits-of-being-an-early-riser-vs-a-night-owl/
Also, sleeping during light hours appears to be worse for sleep on the average than sleeping during dark hours. While this is true at a population level, that doesn’t mean it applies to you or any other individual. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6751071/
Yes and no.
Not getting enough sleep is unhealthy. If you stay up late but don’t sleep in late, you will not get enough sleep.
Bad quality of sleep is also unhealthy. Everyone has a sleep pattern (circadian rhythm) for when their body naturally wants to be asleep or awake. Sleeping at a time your body wants to be awake leads to worse quality sleep, which is unhealthy. Most people have a circadian rhythm of sleeping at night and being awake during the day… which is why people who work overnight shifts often have more health problems than people on day shifts.
However, circadian rhythms can be different for everyone: some of us are natural “night owls” who don’t get tired until late, others are “early birds” who pop out of bed before dawn. So if you’re getting enough sleep and you wake up feeling rested it doesn’t matter when you go to bed.
It’s complicated. In general 8 hours of sleep is the gold standard for better health outcomes. What time you start that sleep cycle is less important.
But there is evidence that people working night shifts are more likely to die younger and have cardiovascular disease. The risk is greater the longer you are exposed to night shifts.
However things get complicated because there are a lot of variables to consider. For example you are FAR more likely to have sleep disturbance when trying to sleep through daylight hours. It can be more challenging to eat healthier because night shift workers often resort to convenience meals. Lack of sun exposure can cause depression. Additionally you may find it more difficult to socialise with friends and family while working the night shift and this impacts leisure and stress levels. More stress means you are more likely to make unhealthy decisions like smoking and poor diet choices.
I’m always asleep at 3am. Didn’t realize that was controversial
You are likely younger as the time when you fall asleep moves back in your teens and shifts back to normal by 30.
3 AM is a good time to be asleep.
I think the time when you fall asleep matters to some extent because past say 10 PM you aren’t really doing anything “productive”. Vs productive hours in the morning are like after 8AM.
I mean maybe you don’t need those hours all the time but you do sometimes.
quality sleep for 4-5 sleep cycles (about 90 minutes each) is all that matters. when those hours happen doesn’t matter. however sleep inertia is a thing and our body will adapt to a set schedule.
don’t worry what shitty judgemental people think. long as you are taking care of your responsibilities to yourself and those who depend on you to live sleep whenever the hell you want
Consistency of sleep schedule can be beneficial, and certainly amount of sleep is important, but I’m not aware of anything suggesting how late you sleep is important. And, if you need the sleep, sleeping in is probably better than worrying about the consistent sleep schedule.
Your body has an internal daily cycle called circadian rhythm. It is set by many things, but mostly sunlight, eating schedule, and your work/school/activity schedule.
Your body expects you to sleep during the “sleep” part of your daily circadian cycle. If you are often awake when your body wants you to be asleep, YES, it is bad for you.
It affects your brain, reducing your attention span, increasing depression and anxiety. It affects your immune system, making you more likely to get more sick, more often. It affects your metabolism, changing the way you get energy out of food and increasing risks of obesity and diabetes. It even increases risks for several cancers.
Sleeping late isn’t inherently bad. Quality and quantity is what’s important. And sleeping at the same time consistently helps you sleep well. So you could argue it’s bad to sleep late if you don’t normally sleep late, but there are plenty of other variables that affect sleep quality as much or more.
Its related to REM sleep and how much time is needed to enter this DEEP STATE of sleep.
This stage is where your brain + body repair itself.
8 hours comes from you getting that full cycle of sleep needed to repair yourself and get into REM.
Ask copilot and start sleeping earlier bro don’t fry yourself
There’s a couple hundred thousand + years of go to sleep at night wake up with sun. Graveyard shift documentation is clear on how bad the opposite is.
The “different circadian rhythms” idea isn’t accurate. It’s about 30 percent of people at the high end and 15 percent on the low. We don’t know what it used to be. Genes exist for being nocturnal in many animals, humans too, but unlike actual nocturnal species, it isn’t dominant in humans. Much was a side effect of the electric light and 100 years is nothing in evolution terms. You might be able to compensate for some things, but light/dark cycles are fundamental building blocks for hormone release and a variety of cascades for neurotransmitters.
The fact that SEASONS affect your mood and sleep should be a hint that there is a broader underlying mechanism in place.
If you wake up and go outside for thirty minutes and do that every day, you’ll set your new wake up time. Your brain records when it starts getting light and marks that as wake up time. Rolling out of bed to sit at a computer with the window next to you is a reduction of around 100,000 lux to 5-10k lux. Seeing light in the distance isn’t the same as it hitting you – sunlight also is critical to creating vitamin D, when you’re deficient there’s a host of issues with that as well.
So, it’s not just what 8 hour block (which matters), it carries a lot of hints to a lifestyle that can create compounding effects that act as multipliers to mental health, which ends up affecting the body as well.
Cool reset:
Set your alarm for when you want to wake up. Let’s say 6am. Wake up, go spend 30 minutes outside looking around, getting lots of light.
Stay up all night, no naps, nothing, drink coffee to get through the night, whatever, just don’t be half falling asleep, be active. At 6 go outside for 30 minutes.
Stay up through the day, stop stimulants. Go to bed when you want to start going to bed 900 or something. Sleep. Wake up at 6, go outside 30 minutes.
Now stick to your routine.
Bonus: dark therapy. You might not think about it much, but the odds you’ve been in true darkness in years is low. Tape blackout drapes (get these for bedrooms, life changing) or black trash bags over your window, towels at door crack. NO light. Try to go for silence for a few hours at least but you can set something to listen to that won’t stop with ads or “are you watching” because you can’t look at your phone. Sit in absolute darkness for 4-6 hours at the end of the afternoon.
Look up light and dark therapy, it’s not hippy bullshit it’s powerful fundamental stuff!
No it is not bad for you. Watch your dog or cat. They sleep when they’re tired.
So the issue most people have with night shift schedules is that they try to adjust their sleep schedule to a day shift schedule on their days off. It’s more prominent with people on 3rd shift, but it’s an issue with 2nd shift people as well.
Say you normally go to bed at 3am, M-F. You’re likely waking up around 11am. Then come Saturday, you suddenly want to wake up at 8 am. You most likely didn’t get a full night’s sleep, but you’re not too bad off. Now you try to go to bed between 11pm-12am Saturday night, and wake up again at 8am.
Now you’re on Sunday night, and you again go to bed around 11pm-12am, because you’re starting to get used to it. Well, you work 2nd, so you don’t need to wake up at 8 am, but you do. Now, you’re starting to get a bit drowsy at the end of work, but you push through it and stay up until 3am, your normal working sleep schedule.
So here’s where the problem stays. You wake up at 8 amish again in Tuesday. So now you’re rocking around 5 hours of sleep. And maybe you get a bit more Tuesday night, but still not a fool night sleep.
Finally, around wed night, you get a full night’s sleep as you do Thursday night. But Friday night, you go to bed as normal and wake up at 8 am Saturday morning. And the whole cycle repeats.
Those nights when you’re not getting enough sleep because you keep messing with your sleep schedule is where the problem is at. And because you’re constantly switching up your sleep schedule, you tend not to sleep as well. And this is all unhealthy.
It’s really pronounced with people who work 3rd shift and try to completely flip their sleep-wake schedule
Melatonine production. Human bodies produce melatonine when its dark and stop when its light. So sleeping at night makes sleep better and easier.
11pm – 7am is the ideal, according to the book Why We Sleep.
Not exactly in a controlled environment, but we don’t live in a controlled environment. I used to work third shift, and while I was young, and resilient it still took a huge toll on me.
Most bedrooms contain a window which makes keeping light out of the room difficult and that light will cause sleep issues. Even blackout shades don’t really get a room fully dark. Noise is another factor. Unless you live alone in the middle of nowhere, and even then it’s birds, and animals making various noises… but there are also some ambient noises at night so it’s not that big of deal. Living in a populated area though it’s random things like vehicles, lawn mowers, and all sorts of other environmental sounds. As somebody that has tried doing sound recording outside a recording studio it’s surprising how many random noises pop up. Then there’s the social aspect. I don’t know what it is about people but they just can’t seem to understand that some people have a different sleep schedule. “oh you’re free during the day” and think it’s ok to wake you up to take them to the airport because their ride cancelled.
In a perfect situation it should be fine, but we don’t live in perfect situations. Society is designed for people to sleep at night and be awake during the day, and it’s very hard to fit in outside of that.