I know it’s not ok to call someone this but I don’t really know why and my boomer father uses it constantly. It’s embarrassing and he offends people. Please eli5 so I can explain to him like he’s 5.
Thank you!
I know it’s not ok to call someone this but I don’t really know why and my boomer father uses it constantly. It’s embarrassing and he offends people. Please eli5 so I can explain to him like he’s 5.
Thank you!
Comments
The term was often used by Western countries to describe people, cultures, and goods from Asia, particularly East Asia, in a way that exoticized and “othered” them. It was commonly associated with stereotypes and a patronizing perspective.
Rugs are oriental, people can be Asian. Oriental is used to describe objects.
Because people will mistake them for being a Leyton Orient fan, and no-one wants to be associated with the Leyton/Walthamstow area the club comes from.
😉
The simplest possible answer is that many Asian people have said that they find it offensive, so we should listen to them.
You can find more details here if you’re interested!
No reason. They changed it to “asian.” Does he still call black people negroes/colored/a slur? If not, say it’s like that. If he does, there’s no helping him. Every so often, the clean term for minority groups changes. If you don’t want people to call you racist, use these terms.
The term is outdated in general, and considered offensive less because of a specific usage history (like the N word for example) and moreso because it gradually became associated with outdated tropes and stereotypes. This makes it difficult to give a specific answer as to why it’s often considered offensive.
Generally speaking, it’s bad because it makes the person saying it sound extremely unaware, which makes people uncomfortable that they might hold some less than stellar views. It’s less like a slur and more like the biggest red flag ever being waved directly in your face.
It’s an outdated term that has better options available, and it makes people nervous that the person using it might hold other, more dangerous, outdated views, or use other, more directly harmful, outdated terms.
Because it is a term that was created by racist European anthropologists during the time of “scientific racism” of the 19th century. It is a term that lumps together all Asians as an other opposed to the “developed” West, and it ignores different countries’ histories and cultures.
Oriental means eastern, which is really only accurate from a Euro-centric standpoint. It’s essentially describing folks from Asia as non-European and therefore less than.
Because no one is Oriental. “Orient” isn’t a country. “Oriental” isn’t a race or ethnicity. “Oriental” lumps everyone in nearly a third of the world population into a single word without care about differences in culture, ethnicity, etc. Additionally “Orientalism” was a western world practice of not just lumping all those people together, but of claiming they’re exotic, and “other than us”. It fetishized all those cultures, instead of respecting them. The word became a way of othering and disrespecting “the orient”.
There’s a great book on the subject. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)
There are plenty of words that were used at one time to generalize entire swaths of peoples. The term ‘oriental’ was once used to generalize anyone who was perceived to be from Asia regardless of where they were actually from or what their ethnic background was; it is no longer used as it is offensive to generalize people from distinct cultural and ethnic backgrounds as if they are all one group. It also considered offensive because the word is tied to western colonialism and exoticization. I would find it strange to hear someone use this word as it started falling out of favor a long time ago, like back in the 1950’s and 60’s even. I would tell your dad that not only is his use of the term offending other people, but it makes him look ignorant and racist. If he doesn’t care that others see him as racist, then you have a different problem to tackle than just his use of outdated language.
Orient is the direction of eastward.
Occidental is the antithesis or westward.
Europe used to call Asia “the Orient” because that means “the East” (you’d also sometimes see “the Occident” or “Occidental” for Europe, which means “the West”). It got changed to Asia/Asian because it’s better to refer to people be what geographic region they come from rather than where that region is in relation to Europe. After all, if you start from an Asia-centered map then the USA is “the East”!
It’s just old so people don’t like it. Like how transvestite means the same thing as crossdresser, but people don’t like it because it’s old. Live long enough and innocuous words you use now will get you in trouble.
Because Americans like to make crap up to be offended about.
I think some formerly mainstream terms become frowned upon and offensive for no reason other than at the time of those terms’ heyday people tended to be saying much more offensive things than would be commonly accepted today. The term “colored” comes to mind. At the time when “oriental” was commonly accepted terminology for people, people weren’t often saying decent things about “orientals.”
There’s actually nothing inherently offensive about the word, it’s not like some other euphemisms for people from different parts of the world that were meant to be deliberately insulting.
The archaic terms for the Western world and Eastern world were “occidental” and “oriental.” (or “occident” and “orient”, when used as nouns)
The issue is that over time, the word “occidental” pretty much fell out of use and “oriental” came to be associated with “dead white men” and “white imperialists” and fell out of favor hard, so now if anyone uses it it’s seen as either ignorant or deliberately inflammatory.
A very small number of actual racists might use it intentionally, but honestly, in the 21st century anyone who wants to be insulting is probably going to go with something a lot more crude.
its an exonym: a name a group calls a different group. there is a certain dignity in rejecting an exonym, especially among marginalized groups
It lumps everyone in east Asia into one generic bucket which, given the history in the region, could be offensive–many Chinese and Koreans still harbor resentment for Japanese imperialism, there have been more recent tensions with China’s rising power and their willingness to exert it, and so forth. Imagine if people referred to Venezuelans as Americans (they’re in the Americas)…probably wouldn’t go over well.
It’s also historically been used to refer to goods or foods or anything that would be exotic to people outside of east Asia (again, generically), and may be seen as somewhat dehumanizing.
Realistically, most people in and from east Asia probably won’t care too much and it’s more young people in places that think themselves enlightened looking for something to be offended by on someone else’s behalf, so if it really bothers you so much, just explain that to your dad. He’s not incorrect–people from the Orient are Oriental by definition–but you can ask him nicely to do it for you.
It makes people unhappy because it was used badly for so long.
Imagine if everyone called you Western, instead of American (or whatever he is), in every situation. That they didn’t care about the difference between Belgium and Australia and Canada and you were all considered the same, and that assumption was really really wrong. It would feel patronizing and othering, wouldn’t it?
Because it was used rudely for so long, it hurts peoples feeling. Because it’s used in such a wide context, it hurts people’s feelings too. When talking to a specific person or group of people, you should be able to narrow down more. I wouldn’t say Belgiums love hockey just cause Canadian’s do.
There’s times wide context labels like Western work, but because oriental was used so long negatively people don’t like it for that either. Now it mostly gets used for objects and art, and people and countries or talking about things in a wide context use Asian.
This is very American centric, in the UK oriental is more seen as bit old fashioned rather than n word level territory. Especially as the word Asian here refers to South Asians like Indians and Pakistanis vs South East Asian like Chinese and Koreans.
“Oriental” is a term which has been relegated to referring mostly to artistic styles and motifs (an Oriental rug, for example) because when referring to people it’s considered to be a term which exoticizes the person in question.
“Orientalism” is likely a term where its usage has changed but it largely refers to the western practice of treating the massive swath of land east of Europe (though with a particular emphasis toward the Middle East) as a single monolithic and often barbaric culture, largely based on its inaccurate portrayal in folklore and myths: the most famous Orientalist text is Arabian Nights, which was published in the Anglosphere in the 19th century to a great fervor. The book itself is a hodge-podge of many different Middle Eastern stories from different time periods and cultures and does not necessarily represent the historical realities of the region and is in fact largely rooted in a fetishization of their perceived loose sexuality. In fact, the two most famous stories from Arabian Nights, Sinbad the Sailor and Aladdin, are generally agreed upon to have been inserted by the European compilers of the stories (Aladdin was added by Antoine Galland based on a story he heard from Syrian writer Hanna Diyab).
These days the distinction that’s made is that Asia is the actual geopolitical area while The Orient refers to the western (exotic) idea of the same region. Thus, calling a person “Oriental” is in effect defining them by the way the West views them rather than any actual identity they may feel they have themselves.
That said, if the fact that it’s offensive isn’t enough for your dad to stop, I don’t think he will stop. That’s HIS problem, not yours.
I have a son-in-law who I love and whose parents were both born in Korea; he had carried a torch for her from middle school through high school and I had suggested to her when they were in college that she give him a chance, and the rest as they say is history.
I’ll never forget when they were first dating using the word Oriental in some context (in my ignorance) and my daughter very firmly telling me that rugs are oriental and people are Asian.
My friend Geo said once, “I hate being called Oriental. I’m not a fucking food group”
Social norms evolve.
WHen is ou, cling someone oriental was normal and not negative, calling blacknpeople negros was also normal and not insulting, little oeople erre midgets.ItIt’a just societies trying to be polite.
As an Asian American I know that there are a lot of negative connotations attached to the word and I really do need to hear the tone of it when it is said. I’d rather be called ‘Oriental’ than someone calling me by the wrong ethnicity when they are trying to describe me.
(I live in a area that is like 90% Caucasian and am very likely to be called “that Chinese guy” — which is false.)
I don’t know but I think it best to call people what they wish to be called.
part of it is probably because it’s simply an old-fashioned way to describe Asians.
and since many of the other old-fashioned terms used to describe non-Anglo ethnicities are now offensive, people just assume ‘oriental’ must also be offensive, by association.
shorter me: every generation needs new labels because the old ones get rancid.
Until the rest of the world stops calling us westerners, I refuse to consider oriental an offensive word in any context. Orient=eastern, occidental=western. I’m 100% liberal/progressive. Find something real to worry about.
I (a boomer) used to use the same term myself. All it really means is “from the East.” I guess Asian-American people got offended by it, so I stopped using it.
Coincidentally, my wife is Chinese and has no idea why it’s supposed to be offensive.
I’m Asian and know many other Asians who couldn’t give less of a shit with its usage. Is it outrage by groups via proxy? Like SJWs against mariachi bands wearing sombreros or renaming the Washington Commanders?
Most groups claimed these words for their own representation and use it in a harmonizing context rather than derogatory.
Not all of us feel that Oriental is offensive.
I grew up identifying as Oriental and my mother would tell you that she’s Oriental if you asked her. It wasn’t until I was in college that I heard (from a white person) that I should call myself Asian instead.
I respect that other people may find it offensive and wouldn’t use it to describe another person of East Asian descent without their explicit permission, but I don’t have any issue with the term myself. I do think it’s bizarre that white people will correct me if I say I’m Oriental because I’ve never had another East Asian person correct me.
Heh. My mother still says she is Oriental. She likes the way it makes her sound mysterious and exotic.
It’s just an outdated term from a time where travel wasn’t as proliferic as it is today.
I’ve always just been told “people are asian, rugs are oriental”
People in the 19th century used the term and they were bad, therefore the word is bad.
It’s much better to call them Asian which lumps in west and south Asians.
It’s othering – you see yourself as the default, while you label someone else as “exotic”.
My issue with using the term Asian is how it’s exclusively meant to refer to people from countries like China, Taiwan, Korea (north and south), or Japan. This ignores other areas that are geographically Asian, like India.