This isn’t an excuse for the cruelty for what North Korean citizens face, just genuine curiosity in how growing up to be the dictator would be like in a country like that. Your whole life, just as with the rest of the country, you’re fed that this is what is supposed to be, this is okay, this is normal. Being the leader means you are the best thing to the country, so whatever you say or think MUST be the best thing for the country.
So do you think with his upbringing, do you think that Kim jong-un realizes how bad his dictatorship is? I’m sure he knows what other countries think of him, but he could just as easy justify it as then being jealous or hating North Korea because of their history.
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I think it’s a bit of both. He definitely knows the outside world sees him as a dictator, but when you grow up your whole life being told you’re basically the savior of your country and surrounded by people who agree with you, that becomes your reality. Add in constant propaganda and no one around to challenge you, and it’s pretty easy to believe you’re doing the right thing, even if it’s cruel. He probably just brushes off criticism from other countries as jealousy or hate, because that’s a lot easier than admitting you’re the bad guy.
I think most dictators know they are bad. For some, especially socialist ones, they might think they are acting in what is the necessary matter to achieve their ideology.
Hereditary dictators tend to be raised on the kool-aid, so they’re probably most likely to genuinely believe that they are chosen/best to lead. But I think all of them have a deluded sense of self-worth/competence/vision to some degree or another, else they wouldn’t be where they are.
I don’t think anyone can really answer that question, but Saddam Hussein did run away when the US invaded Iraq and he even hid underground. There are several countries he could have fled to, but when it’s the US military, at least in 2003, you don’t accept their enemies. So you know he understood he was not well liked, because he committed so many atrocities. But look at how things have played out for the US as well. That war escalated all the problems you see right now around the world. From Ukraine to Syria, it’s all linked to that invasion. And a famous eye doctor managed to flee from Syria to Russia without facing the might of the US military. George Bush was warned that the invasion he would destroy US hegemony. Bush was proved wrong long term, that’s why he has kept his mouth quiet. Sorry for the tangent
How can you tell bad from good if you were never taught the difference?
I dont believe in the movie villain stereotype where they see themselves as the good guy doing the right thing because of their warped beliefs. there’s some element of that maybe, but sometimes people will know somethings wrong, not care, want to do it anyway, have to make up a justification to tell themselves it was okay to do it.
Im sure they realize how they appear to the rest of the world, but the rest of the world doesn’t matter because we’re still peasants to him, just peasants that are treated better. Why would you care what peasants think when you have your own personal fiefdom?
Yes I believe they do. One tour of their country and observing the conditions that their people live in how they look exposes this. When you walk into a small town and you people are living in one room shacks, and are skin and bones. All the while you live in a palace and are obese, you have to recognize that your rule isn’t good for your people.
Dictators know exactly what they’re doing; and they don’t care. That’s what makes them dictators.
They likely have personality disorders and mental disorders like narccissm that prevent them from fully seeing themselves as bad.
Trump, the other day, JUST now started to question his morality and even then can’t help himself but be nefarious
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-heaven-ukraine-russia-war-zelensky-putin-peace-b2810747.html
Have the option: try to consider yourself as brainwashed with democracy fake.
When it comes to Kim Jong Un, I think part of it is simple self-preservation (at any cost). He was born into a dynastic system where his only real legitimacy comes from being a Kim. If he had refused the role, another faction or sibling would have taken over, and he probably would have been eliminated as a threat. If he tried to reform or open the country, the regime could collapse and he’d likely end up dead or replaced.
That doesn’t excuse the brutality of his rule, but it shows how impossible the bind is. His path was basically predetermined: dictatorship or death. It’s sad what the people of North Korea are enduring, but it’s also naive to imagine he could just wave his hand, say “you’re free now,” and everyone would live happily ever after.
Idk mate. Presumably, none of us here is a generational dictator. I myself became a dictator of my own volition, not through that nepotism nonsense.
Try asking them man himself!
You are wondering if people can ever become self-aware to see the unbelievable propaganda and brainwashing they are exposed to?
When you haven’t realized it yourself yet? Because you claim North Korea is a brutal authoritarian dictatorship while ignoring all the western countries that are.
None of us are elderly government officials with direct/indirect ties to dictators—but a lot of them are definitely just adhering to the principles they were taught by their ancestors. If you were taught it’s normal to torture people as a ritual without anyone telling you otherwise, you’d more likely than not believe in it wholeheartedly.
Democratic leaders are different though, they know they’re horrible people but keep doing their work anyway(example: George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, any president really). No politician is innocent but in defense of dictators some probably don’t even know they’re cruel people.
They know they’re bad. They don’t care but it’s the system that keeps them on power.
They’re puppets of the real people in power. Look at Kim Jonh-Un- do you honestly think he has the cerebral-faculties to run a piss up in a brewery, let alone the working side a nation?
It’s like the british monarchy with king charles. Are kings messed up? yes but king charles isn’t going to abolish the monarchy because noone will support him doing that. It’s the same with Kim he might want to abolish the governing system but noone around him will support that, so he would fear getting killed and replaced by a double or one of his relatives. Also remember CHINA opposes north korea becoming democratic as they think u.s will gain further influence on them. But in anycase Kim is an ahole because he increased border security alot making it virtually impossible to escape the country now. So total pos.
He would absolutely know. He’s born into the situation, probably paranoid about being taken out by political rivalsamd probably brought up to think oppression is safety.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Kim Jong-Un is smarter than he looks. He perfectly understands the situation but knows that if he tries to make things better for his people or enact any kind of real change, he would be assassinated and removed from the government immediately. Dictators can be well meaning and want what’s best for their subjects, but the positions they are placed in have a tendency of forcing their hand to go a certain way over and over again.
You know that Upton Sinclair quote about it being difficult to make a man understand something, if his pay check depends on him not understanding it?
Take that and jack it up to eleven.
Bot post. Check out r/movingtonorthkorea if you’d like to actually learn something
I’m gonna challenge the brainwashing narrative and point out that most people dont focus on much outside their personal bubble. Feeding their family, living their lives comes first. This becomes more true as day-to-day conditions worsen, which is why fascists are fine with having a poor economy. Its survival mode. Youre much less likely to start questioning the state of the government when you’re more concerned with your daily life.
Apathy is what wins totalitarians their victory, active repression is for keeping it
Kim jong-un grew up in and was educated in Switzerland. There’s no excuse for him. He’s simply evil.
It’s probably both. Dictators like Kim Jong-un grow up in a unique environment where they’re surrounded by people whose survival depends on telling them they’re god-like, brilliant, and infallible. From birth, they’re insulated in a bubble of extreme privilege and propaganda that even most North Koreans don’t experience at the same intensity. So in many ways, yeah, they’ve been “brainwashed” into believing their own myth.
But here’s the key difference, unlike the average citizen, he also has access to the outside world. He studied in Switzerland, he knows what the internet is, and he knows his people are starving while he lives in luxury. That means he can’t be completely unaware. It’s more likely that he justifies it to himself. Dictators often convince themselves that their cruelty is necessary for “stability,” or that the outside world is out to destroy them, so they’re just “protecting” their country.
So it’s not that he’s oblivious, it’s that he’s living in a warped reality where self-preservation, absolute power, and propaganda all blend together. He probably doesn’t wake up thinking, “I’m the villain here,” but more like, “I’m the only one who can protect my country, and everyone else is lying.”
Compare it to royal family succession, kings and queens. They also know that there is no real justification for their power in a country, however the vast majority go along with it and continue the succession. What you have to remember is there will be a whole class of people who have power in that country that comes from continuing the status quo, so they will encourage the dictator to stay in power, as it benefits them. From an early age they will be surrounded by people telling them its the right thing for the country and the people in it.
Respected Comrade Kim Jong Un did nothing wrong
Does he himself believe he travelled to the sun under the cover of darkness. Or that he scores a hole in one on every hole of the golf course? Or is he not even aware of that propaganda? Because surely, if you heard insane stories like that about yourself, you may start to question the other bits, like, being the saviour of your people?
I feel like when you are ordering the army to shoot your relative with AA cannons you probably have an inkling that you might be the baddie.
They’re probably sociopaths. I genuinely don’t think they can feel empathy, and don’t have a concept of morality. Wouldn’t be shocked if some are solipsists too
Read Dear Reader by Michael Malice. It’s a fantastic book about the ideology and culture of north Korea. It’s written from the perspective of Kim Jong Il as an autobiography.
I think he thinks of himself and his family as great leaders because of the propaganda and the yes men everywhere. But there’s a lot of stuff in the propaganda that I can’t see him believing. A lot of it is religious level fantasy. He’s an educated guy and he’s not stupid. Also he’s on the inside so he sees how the sausage is made in real time. He can just declare something and the propaganda bureau cooks it up and puts it into the mythology.
Kim Jong-Un went to school in Switzerland, so he’s seen what free countries look like. He may genuinely believe the North Korean system is superior or he may enjoy all the power he gets. His older brother Kim Jong-Nam who was assassinated clearly enjoyed free countries so we can guess that members of the family are aware of the repression.
I would argue that it’s more important to note that they simply don’t care. Kim Jung-Un specifically traveled abroad and had an international education before becoming the leader of North Korea. He is well aware of the stark contrast between his country and the rest of the world. But he simply doesn’t care. He is rich and powerful and that’s all that matters. At the wave of his hand he could kill 10,000 people and he would never even think about it again. Most dictators/authoritarian leaders are psychopaths. They simply do not feel any emotion towards other humans. They don’t care if they all die. It’s abnormal. Most people would be filled with guilt and feel horrible if they killed even one person. Dictators can kill millions and feel nothing at all.
You are also in charge of a country with intelligence services.
Tell me, if you knew MK Ultra was going on would you consider the US the “good guys”? If you knew every bit of dirty laundry outside of that?
People in those positions have perspectives that keep them from thinking of themselves as “bad guys”. They’re doing whatever is best for them, same as everyone else, and are, from their perspective, probably also protectors of their people.
If DPRK decided tomorrow to remove central control and open up, it would be coup’d the next day, it is a product of its environment, the Korean War devastated them. Please look into the sanctions on North Korea and decide if it’s the Kim dynasty killing the people or if it’s external powers causing it. A cult of personality doesn’t form for no reason, Kim’s grandfather was a hero.
whats the difference between trump and kim? i see both as dictators, by the family background trump is also a generational dictator, you can list exactly the same nk problems on usa too, its funny how people use nk and cuba as escape goats while we can see similiar or even worse problems on the great capitalists nations
An element that can’t be avoided is acknowledging the nuances of the countries allies, enemies, and what was happening at the time, because a lot of these dictators didn’t come to power in a vacuum with no foreign interference.
kim jong un is based and he is my friend
Do you recognize the constant barrage of propaganda you experience? Most people don’t. I think the best example of this in recent times was when that popular streamer Speed went to China and his fans realized they had been lied to their whole life
Listen to any American patriot talking about American Excellence, then realise Kim Jongs have been told way way more lies about how perfect they are all their lives.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while and came up with an idea of a satirical musical in which a sad, misunderstood generational dictator is actually suffering from the situation and has no choice but to act all tough and murder people. (I do think they actually have a choice, it’s just that they would have to act slowly to change their country and the mindset of the population.)
The answer is both yes and no. Yes, they know that the international community condemns them and that their actions violate their own country’s laws. No, they don’t see themselves as thieves or murderers – they perceive themselves as the “rightful inheritors” of the nation. Pre-colonial civilizations were predominantly patrimonial, with no formal distinction between state funds and elite wealth; funds from what would now be called the treasury were used to fund the lavish lifestyles of the King, and their associates to secure their loyalty, so they’d have the incentive to militarily quell any uprising, no matter how many deaths it causes.
Many post-colonial leaders, not just Kim, genuinely do not believe the formal laws and constitution are legitimate frameworks to be respected and view themselves as adhering to the same informal logic that has governed societies for millennia.