Advice wanted. I feel like being a woman is what makes this situation so problematic for me, but if it’s off topic LMK and I’ll find another sub to ask for advice in.
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My husband has a family member who makes me feel like shit (I believe unintentionally) every time we’re at a family gathering. This guy grew up with my husband and they’re really tight. He was the best man at our wedding last year. My husband and I agree that he’s almost certainly low-support-needs autistic (as I believe I may be, and have been researching autism). I know this is probably why he constantly talks over and interrupts me when I try to respond to things he says. But it’s hard for me to go “oh that makes it OK” because never getting a word in edgewise makes me feel like shit regardless of the person’s reason!
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At family gatherings, it always gets to a point in the night when he has had 4+ alcoholic drinks and has been the only one talking for a half hour or more, with everyone else listening intently, and he’s making statements about his political, social or religious views as if they’re all Absolute Fact. They’re often statements I consider to be clearly racist or misogynist. He makes fun of other religions and other versions of his religion (including my version, although he doesn’t realize it because he has never let me speak up enough to let me tell him what I believe), too. No one in the family argues with him or calls him out on being intolerant or offensive.
What happens is that I stuff down all my comments and feelings in order to be polite because I’ve observed that’s the social norm in this family, and then after he leaves/I leave, I explode into a ball of fight or flight adrenaline because I’m so enraged about his racism and misogyny, and the fact that he’s raising his son to believe these things and sending someone else out into the world who won’t respect women or minorities. Not to mention he always ends up so drunk that his poor bored-looking son has to shuttle him to and from the gathering.
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1. How do I make myself be heard without being rude and turning into the “bad guy” in the family’s eyes? My husband is too conflict-avoidant to help and says “you’re allowed to speak up” but he never speaks up, and he doesn’t understand that if I speak up it WILL turn into a shouting match because this guy will dismiss and talk over me repeatedly to the point of me becoming triggered and angry. (I tried it once. I got so triggered I had to walk out of the restaurant and pace the parking lot for 20 minutes.)
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If equal dialogue is impossible, how do I shut him up while, again, not being rude?
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I need sincere advice about how to have a respectful conversation and make my opinion heard. Not how to be snarky or rude back at him.
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Don’t advise me to leave my marriage or stop attending family functions altogether. Those aren’t options I’m OK with at this time.
Comments
There’s no magic solution here. You can’t force someone to respect you and treat you politely.
Stop spending time with this person.
You can attend without having to stay until he’s 4 drinks in. Before he gets obnoxious start saying your goodbyes and leave. “It’s been wonderful seeing everyone, but I’m feeling fried. I’m going to call it a night.”
You can’t change him, that doesn’t mean you have to put up with the worst parts of him.
You will turn into the bad guy. Sorry. They obviously don’t want to rock the boat. Boat rockers will be vilified. Either accept that and speak up. Or spend less time.
Avoid spending time with him. He’s your husband’s friend, let THEM spend time together.
You can say (loudly) he’s being misogynistic or racist. Others may be waiting for a brave soul to step forward. If no one agrees with you, well, do you want to be with those people any more?
You leave the gathering when he gets weird. I bet he doesn’t pontificate if there isn’t an audience.
People like this will not changed, especially be convinced by a woman. I’m frankly disappointed in your husband’s support of this man, no matter what excuses he makes. It doesn’t sound like he is supporting you at all.
You don’t want to avoid family functions but can you avoid interacting with him? It sounds like everyone knows the kind of guy he is (I have an uncle like this so I do get it. We don’t invite him round anymore but that’s another story) so people will probably understand. If he is standing on ceremony and hogging the limelight, can you just walk out? You can go to the function but make it VERY CLEAR this is not what you will waste your life on. You don’t have to leave with drama just simply make your excuses and go somewhere else in the building. If someone asks simply say you do not want to listen to his racist sexist nonsense.
You cannot shut him up without being rude. You might be able to shut him up either with comments so direct he is shocked into silence, or accept it is likely going to end in a shouting match. Men like this are not only so convinced of their own superiority and opinions, but they have a massive EGO that will not allow some upstart woman to challenge his wisdom. I know many men like this and I am a very direct person that has no issue with conflict or debate, nor creating awkward situation – and I’m british so this is a real thing.
If he is as bad as you say, you only have two options that don’t involve a massive argument or avoiding family situations: either make your excuses at the event, or learn to let it go while his words wash past you. See if you can make jokes of the situation. Or even laugh when he is talking (that will probably get you noticed but he might attack through damaged ego). Basically, he is just not worth it. I’d be more worried about the relationship with your husband who is a classic bystander while this man perpetuates his hateful propaganda.
> My husband is too conflict-avoidant to help and says “you’re allowed to speak up” but he never speaks up
This is the real problem – your husband doesn’t have your back. You will never get anywhere with this guy if he senses that your husband is on his team and not yours.
As long as this problem stays unaddressed, you don’t have any leverage.
Fuck not being rude, air horn.
Every time he says something sexist or racist, air horn and call it out. AIR HORN “That’s racist”
Then again I have less fucks to give these days but you either need to leave when he’s around or call him out each and every time.
I think there’s a bigger issue here that needs to be addressed. Your husband is close with someone you describe as sexist, racist, and bigoted towards your religion. Not only that, he will not speak up for you. Have you considered what this may say about your husband? Can he not approach this person after the fact, one-on-one, so you’re not the bad guy? Can he not have an honest conversation with this person about how his views are harmful and are pushing him away?
I don’t believe you’re the one who has to fix this whole problem. This is something that the entire family has allowed to continue—either because they agree, or don’t disagree enough to corrext it. If you speak up, you will ultimately be the “bad guy.” You May or may not be ok with that.
Dude sounds like an alcoholic and kind of a jerk. I’m not sure if engaging with him at any level is going to be productive. If it’s a family gathering in a home, maybe try to converse with others away from his diatribes. Try to leave before the really drunk rants start. Just reduce his audience numbers. There’s a chance that others may follow suit. Right now everyone is politely listening to him because nobody is bold enough to excuse themselves and leave.
I love the thought of you standing up and saying “well, Frank has started his lecture for tonight and I have no interest in the subject material. I’ll be heading out.”
Husband should be responsible for saying, “Hey [wifes name] is still talking. We’d like to hear what she has to stay.” If he can’t even do that, don’t go to family events.?
Oh these people just LOVE me lol. I have had relatives/coworkers like this in the past and I just outtalk them. It is super uncomfortable at first but after awhile you get the hang of it. I just keep talking when they interrupt, if they continue I get louder and louder. Eventually they always shut up because things get so fucking uncomfortable for everyone. It works for me every time. There have been some assholes I had to do this with repeatedly to “housebreak“ them, but eventually they always shut up. And when I see them interrupt someone else, I loudly swoop in like a psychotic crow and say “EXCUSE ME, BOB!! JANE WAS TALKING AND YOU INTERRUPTED!! JANE, PLEASE CONTINUE!!”
That he has autism doesn’t excuse his behavior. Autism doesn’t prevent people with it from learning even if it might shortchange a person’s ability to perceive the impact of their words or actions prior to doing or saying them.
Your husband’s family and social circle prevent this douche from learning his words and actions need to change because they provide for him an accepting audience and a sense of validation. They protect him but are also preventing him from growing as a person by not calling him out and letting him continue to behave this way and still have a supportive community around him. If they didn’t, he would have to examine his words and actions and consider they don’t fit with having a community.
The problem here is not his autism, it’s his drinking and being and ass. I’m honestly surprised your husband expects you to subject yourself to that? You can’t argue or debate with a drunk person, that’s putting yourself on their level and expecting sanity to come out of it.
I’d leave early.
Or another plan, steal another person you enjoy the company of, and create a sub group to talk together on the side about enjoyable topics. If he’s on the patio, go in the kitchen with your two favorite cousins, ya know? Just go to a room of the house that he isn’t occupying. If you get called out just wave your hand airily and say with a sweet, teasing smile: “Oh, you know Uncle Bob! He’s always talkin loud and political! Just wanted a small break so we thought we’d sit in here for some quiet for a minute and sip our drinks! Want to talk about -insert whatevs- with us?”
And that can often soothe anyone’s ire. The body language, the tone of voice, the invitation to participate in the “secret club!”
You can also interrupt his lectures loudly, and abruptly. Use short and simple sentences.
“The world is going to hell because of kitty litter boxes in schools!!1!!1”
“No, Bob, it’s not.”
“YES IT IS!!!!”
“No one cares.”
“WELL I CARE!!1!!”
“Prove there are litter boxes in schools.”
And then while he is blustering and turning purple, just apathetically turn to the person next to you and ask them a friendly: “So, what’s new in your life?”
Get up and walk away. You don’t need to hold yourself prisoner to all that. Start by moving to another room for 10 minutes. Come back, if he’s still going on, say, “Oh, is he still going?” to the room at large, turn and walk away again. Third time, leave the gathering.
Establish a precedent. If no one shuts him down, then they get to deal with him, and they don’t get to see you.
This sounds like an entrenched family thing, so it’s highly doubtful that you’ll be able to get him to shut up or go away.
So, you have two choices: either ignore him after drink #4, or leave before he gets to that stage.
Either bring some knitting/crochet with you and make sh!t while he’s pontificating (also great distraction, as other ppl will ask you what you’re making) or be ready to go when he starts on a roll. Hopefully your husband will understand that you, personally, find him too much to take – but that you’re fine with them spending time together without you having to be there.
If it were me, I’d want to distance myself from these people. If they nothing against the misogyny and racism, they probably believe in it themselves. Otherwise somebody would’ve spoken up by now. I mean you could say something before you decide to go low contact with these people. It would certainly be something I would want to do.
I have a family member I live with who often says nasty or ignorant things about women (internalized misogyny), certain races, religions, LGBTQA. She defends famous sex offenders. When this comes up I push back. It’s not in my nature anymore to let it go. Yes, it makes things at home more difficult, but I feel if I didn’t speak up I would feel badly about myself. I wish I could like her more bc she’s family, but she’s got a lot of awful opinions that I don’t think are right or just. The good news is – maybe someday something will click snd she won’t be as bigoted because someone said “hey that’s terrible.”
That said, it’s not your job to show somebody the light. Unfortunately there are people with too much anger and hate in them to see the world differently. They can’t learn and they won’t change. All you can do is distance yourself from their toxic influence
Understand you can’t control others, only how you react to them. Keep talking when he’s trying to interrupt like you don’t hear him or .. Stay out of his orbit!
Always position yourself on the opposite side of the room or in another room altogether.
Have conversations that don’t include him.
When he’s holding court don’t be in the audience! Be conspicuously missing. Perfect time to get some fresh air, make a call, or find out what’s going on in the kitchen. There’s probably at least one person that hides out when this guy starts up… Find them.
Resist any attempts to force you to interact with him other than hello and good bye.
Plan a small event that he isn’t invited to or won’t be available for. Maybe when others see how much better it is without his droaning on and drunken behavior his invitations will decrease. If not oh well, you had an event where you could get a word in.
First off, don’t worry about the autistic part. You don’t do a single autistic person a favor by putting up with bad behavior out of pity.
Second, have a serious conversation with your husband and set some boundaries. You aren’t going to stick around this person when he’s making you uncomfortable. Whether that means driving separately so you can leave when you need to, skipping gatherings where you know he’ll be, walking out of the room, you decide what works for you. You aren’t being a jerk, you aren’t the one making this situation uncomfortable. You are simply asking for your spouse to care about your comfort too. You aren’t even asking him to pick sides – just care.
Right now you are the only person uncomfortable in the situation, and you are carrying the burden of the discomfort and building resentment. Don’t try to change anyone else, it’s exhausting and it won’t work – just adjust what you are doing so that you are comfortable. Exercise your autonomy.
And be prepared for the backlash when the family calls you rude or hurtful or whatever. They are trying to pull you back into the status quo because the status quo was fine for them. Be polite and kind and firm. You love them but you have a right to have autonomy over what you listen to and how you are treated. You don’t have to be angry, they don’t have to be vilified. Take care of yourself with grace. And good luck.
This sounds like an extreme version of my BiL (I’m a guy), and he does a lot of the same thing to me. I basically try to keep our contact to a minimum. If you don’t feel like you can/should stop attending family functions, that’s probably your best bet.
Bring knitting. Then you arent wasting time while you are silent. Also, earbuds and a good podcast or audio-book. Gets me through all kinds of obnoxious events. Then I agree 100 times with the person who recommended leaving early. I duck out after people (ANYONE) has had 2 drinks. Things only go down hill from there.
You can say “Please let me finish”, or “Excuse me, I’m not done”. Keep repeating so it’s obvious what he’s doing. If that doesn’t work, then there is no way to shut him up while not being rude.
No one wants to rock the boat with this clown, but it amazes me they will waste their evening listening to his lengthy drunken monologues. What a bizarre family dynamic.
Other alternatives, get your phone or kindle out, go into another room and entertain yourself. You don’t owe him an audience. If that doesn’t work, drive separately and leave when he starts in with his idiocy. I don’t see any way you can change how anyone else behaves, only how you respond.