I feel that social media creates some…. “different” standards for women and the men that they date. It seems like there is almost an expectation to have 0% tolerance for lack of anything in a male partner. he doesn’t get you flowers super often? its because he doesn’t want to. he doesn’t dress nice when you go out together? doesn’t want to. He does something mean or hurtful? its because he wanted to and that’s how he must always feel. it’s like they view men as creatures who aren’t capable of complexity or growth, and that they want all of us other women go view men in the same light otherwise we’ll just be dating “””shitty men”””.
How does the phrase “if he wanted to, he would” make you feel?
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Since you shitlords like to delete your posts, here’s an original copy of /u/Grotesque_Gal’s post (if available):
I feel that social media creates some…. “different” standards for women and the men that they date. It seems like there is almost an expectation to have 0% tolerance for lack of anything in a male partner. he doesn’t get you flowers super often? its because he doesn’t want to. he doesn’t dress nice when you go out together? doesn’t want to. He does something mean or hurtful? its because he wanted to and that’s how he must always feel. it’s like they view men as creatures who aren’t capable of complexity or growth, and that they want all of us other women go view men in the same light otherwise we’ll just be dating “””shitty men”””.
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Dating based on a random insufferable instagram post is moronic, and any woman that used it to complain about something I have or haven’t done would result in me losing all respect for her.
I’ve always thought certain women, typically left learners, view men as “broken” women. They’ve deluded themselves into thinking that their lifestyle, their choices, their moral compasses are always right and men just got derailed at some point.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
It’s somewhat true.
If I wanted to date, I would. I’m not actively looking because I haven’t found anyone special enough to make the effort worthwhile. I’d rather focus on my kiddo, my hobbies, my work, etc.
That’s the part that the some women overlook. They’re competing for everything else going on in life. Yes your partner should be nice to you, but you should be sane in expectations with everything else going on with their life.
I do understand “I’d rather not date rather than date someone who isn’t worth it”. If you want high maint, just be up front that you’re high maintenance and what you give in return that makes up for the high maintenance cost and time. If you want low maintenance, use that as a selling point. If you want stalker level of maintenance, go for that.
Folks who expect their partner to have ESP rather than talk are the root issue.
Answering the top line question, the problem is that women are applying it as a general rule as opposed to realizing that’s it only pertinent to crappy guys they shouldn’t have been dating in the first place. There’s no nuance to it, as though a rule of thumb should apply everywhere and when.
“it’s like they view men as creatures who aren’t capable of complexity or growth, and that they want all of us other women go view men in the same light otherwise we’ll just be dating “””shitty men”””.”
I think it’s more about avoidance. I.e. if it’s a general problem with men, then it’s not a individual problem with her inability to identify and get a good man. Realizing that she’s attracted to crappy men and dealing with that takes a lot of work that people generally don’t want to put in. (To be fair guys often have parallel issues.)
You’ve put that quite well already – social media creates more and more “socially acceptable” toxicity in all shapes and sizes.
“If he wanted to, he would” is just one example of the insane amount of horrifyingly stupid words to live by.
My efforts need to be matched otherwise I’m not about to do all the work. If she wanted to she would match my interest with effort.
I mean I think it’s just different and more lenient than you describe. “If I wanted to dress nice for xyz I would” sure, I wasn’t even thinking about what I was wearing so long as it wasn’t dirty and the clothes matched and fit well enough. Nice or not. I didn’t get flowers? No, I’m really just not thinking about it, it’s not want to or didn’t want to, it didn’t cross my mind. I wanted to get home after a long ass work day/week, not stop off at the flower shop. I said something out of pocket? Yea I probably just was in the heat of the moment, I think about it sometimes, but how I really feel is that I don’t even know why we’re arguing, I just want to chill, nothing is that deep to be that maddening unless we’d no longer be together afterward.
But at the same time, I could throw equitable counterpoints to all of these, ranging from “if she didn’t do this, she didn’t want to,” to “you aren’t seeing any other perspective than your own.”
It almost impossible not to draw comparisons on social media. People compare themselves with strangers and they compare their partners with strangers.
If one wants to have a fun, healthy, fulfilling relationship then there needs to be communication. Assuming your partner “would if they WANTED to” benefits no one.
If you feel your partner takes priorities about certain things over yourself. Tell them. Have a conversation.
Oh they bend over backwards for their friends but not for you? Tell them. They may not even realize it. Assumptions kill and any social media account rhat isnt just a regular person, is creating content to generate views and keep the attention of you. So when you follow a relationship “advice” account just remember that the account needs to continue making content to keep you engaged. It doesn’t mean that everything that is said should be taking literally and applied to you own life. That’s how you grow bitter and resentful for things that were not issues before you saw someone on social media tell you how to feel.
My two cents
I just laugh. Can you imagine if every man started to touch women’s chests and asses as often as they have the thought? I know that there is someone out there who really doesn’t have any care about what the other person wants and just does whatever he wants, but it’s just so divorced from my experience that I just find it funny.
Hell, try applying those words to your actions. Are you always doing everything you want? I mean you “COULD” couldn’t you? And hopefully that’s the last time you can make such an assumption about us being fully divorced from the consequences of our actions as if we are immune from wanting to be liked and cared about.
It reminds me of how much some people (because it’s not just women) over complicate life. It isn’t that fucking hard. Stop making things that can be scheduled require on demand immediate responses.
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Perfect is the enemy of good.
Cop out. It’s like over thinking enough to say something that makes sense but can’t be backed up enough to mean something tangible.
Comparison is the thief of joy. That and too many women let their past negative experiences paint present moments.
Are there lazy/home bodied men who do nothing for you but will change for the right one? Yeah.
Are all lazy/home bodied men like this? No.
I am a very home bodied man who enjoys going out occasionally and falls in love very deeply. I need my partner to express to me when they feel under appreciated, otherwise it’s business as usual for me.
Most mainstream (social) media cater to women, because they’re more likely to spend stuff on the shit they’re selling/advertising. Men are more into niche communities
There are a lot of things I WANT to do, but there’s also a lot of things I DON’T do. Time, energy, social standards, there’s a lot of factors that decide if I do what I want to or not.
For example, I get tempted to swoop my woman up bridal style and start shouting “THIS IS ALL MINE!!!” just to show her off. Do I actually do it? Heck no!! Chances are it’ll embarrass her and I feel the need to ask for consent before I do it but I feel like by asking for consent it kinda ruins the moment… Just as an example anyways…
Manipulative.
You people make us millenials feel like boomers. It’s like we’re the last generation to not have our lives run by social media. You come here with social view points, with a stupid social media cliche take, and complain about social media pressures. You kids are doing this to yourselves.
Ignores all social and life pressures a man may be feeling, conveniently frames the passive woman as the ultimate prize.
Tens of millions more women are projected to be single and childless by 2030, I don’t imagine they will hold onto and accept the narrative that no man “wanted to”
I think that it’s messaging that’ll have women shooting their own feet, it’s messaging for an echo chamber of women who will end up miserable and likely lonely. It’s right up there with women wanting a guy taller than 6ft who makes 6 figures and has more than 6 inches, without noticing how few men that results in. There are plenty of good women who don’t believe this garbage and they’re going to have a ton of good options, while the women in the “if they wanted to, they would” echo chamber and the 6-6-6 echo chamber are going to run out of options. There aren’t enough tall men who earn the big bucks, with the length, who match up to these standards. On the flip side, as a guy who’s looking for a chill woman who can joke sarcastically and tease me right back, I have a global dating pool and I don’t have a clock that runs out in my early 40s.
Both genders have unrealistic expectations. It’s all BS. And everyone seems to be falling for it
It goes both ways like most things.
It depends on what you apply it to, and if he is allowed to have the same mentality.
I can get behind the argument that if you value something, have communicated that and are consistently not getting that you shouldn’t expect that to change and evaluate your options accordingly.
That being said. The communication part of this progression is very important. As is the part where you consider whether giving up what you are getting is worth pursuing what you’re not…
It also goes both ways.
I don’t think about it at all. Dating in America is a futile process and I choose to sit it out.
I hate the flowers thing as if men are expected to have some schedule to get them for a woman in order for them to feel good. One of my long term relationships near the end she demanded them every week to prove I cared which I find so toxic when its a demand for some nice to have thing that isn’t even close to a necessity
Dressing nice should be on the guy to do it for himself to want to look good, not for someone else as their accessory. If that’s the case then women should already know that the guy they’re looking at doesn’t care about their appearance and on you to choose ones who do. Saying “oh I had to help him dress” as an excuse is just a slippery slope to being their caretaker. You can have input if they have some style and you say this may wor better, but straight up changing whether they dress nice or not is a huge difference.
Saying something mean or hurtful is too general. It can be their intention and their understanding isn’t what you wanted to hear but what they were thinking yet not in a malicious way. This one needs clarification and communication
Incapable of growth is depending on the person, not just men. If the person doesn’t have a growth mindset then they’re comfortable being stuck and if growth is important for the other then its going to be shitty
Yeah if a woman wanted to give you head, they would.
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, but here we are, fire away.
The modern day woman that regurgitates this bullshit is the reason myself and most men stay single, we don’t want to put up with additional drama. Not all women are this way, but a lot are. The entry standards are super high for women that bring below average characteristics to a relationship, but demand to be treated as if they are God’s gift to man.
Ok done ranting.
*Edit: Spelling
>I feel that social media creates some…. “different” standards for women
Society has historically set radically different standards for men and women. However, I have noticed a weird trend, with at least more than a few women, who seem to actively embrace double standards they hold. For instance: “no one is entitled to your labor” coming from a woman is perfectly acceptable in the context of a relationship, but they definitely do feel men are *obligated* to perform “the bare minimum”.
> it’s like they view men as creatures who aren’t capable of complexity or growth
To be fair, we men often portray ourselves this way. We tend to emphasize how simple we are, especially in comparison to women. Yes, many women then go on to caricaturize it, but it seems worth mentioning.
>How does the phrase “if he wanted to, he would” make you feel?
With respect to this, it’s obviously overly simplistic and too dismissive. Here’s why it’s problematic:
And, as mentioned above, it rarely works the other way around. Meaning, try saying “if she wanted to, she would” in a conversation about a wife having low libido and see how that works out. Suddenly, there will be a cavalcade of nuance coming for why it’s not so simple. And that’s totally fair! But the double-standard becomes apparent.
The most misunderstood and/or over-used phrases for women’s dating advice today seem to be: “if he wanted to, he would”, “weaponized incompetence”, “emotional labor”/”mental labor”, and “the bare minimum”.
Yes. It’s 100%.
It’s a false narrative and an easy, shallow response to paint someone as not putting forth effort. Sometimes what we want to do isn’t the right thing to do or not possible to do in that moment of time. A better thing to do would be to have An open dialogue where there is a discussion and a honest attempt to understand each other. Statements like the one in the question are not constructive ways to deal with hurt feelings in a relationship.
Every person is different. When people stress and rag over superficial bullshit, they lash out on social media. My partner shouldn’t do this or that nonsense is why people start to question their relationship. Maybe the dude is broke and can’t afford shit. Maybe he’s stressed about something and his thoughtfulness is slacking because of it. TALK to your partner before you jump to silly conclusions or scenarios. Don’t assume some bullshit because one butthurt goof on the internet posted it.
Social media isn’t the real world, and I think most women understand this. The phrase “if he wanted to, he would“ is a pretty true statement for the most part. But I think most women understand that they still have to use their words like a big girl andstay there desires and boundaries.