My fiancée has a tendency to go full on ad hominem whenever we have an argument: “asshole”, “you’re not a real man”, “you’re dumb” etc. After having put up with this for a while; and after having sat her down a couple of times, telling her that it’s unacceptable to talk to me this way (the issue at hand is separate from how you communicate with each other about the issue), I think I’ve reached a point where it becomes too frequent and hurtful for me. Is it okay for me to “demand” couples counseling as a non-negotiable, and if she refuses to threaten to pause the wedding prep? Secondly, how do I make her take me seriously? I feel like if half a day goes over it I minimize the issue in my head and decide it’s not worth ruining the good mood over.
Edit: thanks, all, for your input. I’m a little shocked at how not okay that behavior is. I guess I always saw it as just something we need to work on, not a huge red flag or toxic trait worth breaking things off over.
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She’s not going to change. She doesn’t respect you and sees no issue with her behaviour.
Going through with the marriage won’t change anything.
Is that the kind of behaviour you want future children to see ? They will grow up thinking it’s acceptable.
You posted this same issue 2 months ago. Nothing changed. She’s not going to change, she thinks there are no consequences and she can be her true self without penalty for it.
That’s gonna be the rest of your life if you marry this person
Yeah man, it’s more than okay to draw that line. Constant insults aren’t “just arguments,” they’re emotional damage in disguise. Counseling should be a bare minimum, not a bold ask. If she won’t take that seriously, pausing the wedding isn’t a threat it’s self-respect.
Bruh, straight up, no one deserves that kinda disrespect, especially from their SO. You’ve got every right to demand couples counseling – legit, if she loves you, she’ll go. If she disagrees? You gotta question if she’s the one, dude. And remember, your feelings matter too, don’t ever minimize ’em. Peace. 💯👊
This isn’t the right sub. You need r/relationshipadvice
However, if all you offer is words and warnings over and over, she will continue to mistreat you. Set your boundaries, and enforce them. Next time she abuses you, tell her to start searching for a place to stay, and give her a deadline to move out. She is calling your bluff, and if you continue to just take her abuse, she will continue to abuse you.
i’m sorry you are going through this! don’t exhaust yourself to the point of breaking down your self worth any longer. find someone who builds you up, not tears you down
Or you could just leave
It’s more than okay to make therapy a condition. You deserve to be treated like a human being.
>how do I make her take me seriously?
take back the ring to show her you’re serious and not just blowing smoke.
Seriously though, why do you want to marry someone who talks this way? this isn’t going to change, it’s just going to get worse.
If you’re walking on eggshells and talking about how she’s hurt you is going to ‘ruin the good mood’ then you’re with an emotionally abusive person and you’re already making compromises so as not to rock the boat. this is a very bad thing.
Run while you still can, OP. At 30, you have TONS of time to find someone who doesn’t just love you, but respects you too. Don’t rush to the alter with someone who treats you this way.
Bruh, ya gotta realize, U R worth more than this. No1 deserves 2 be talked down to or disrespected like that, especially by the person they’re planning to marry. Demand that therapy, if she refuses, it’s a major red flag tbh. Stand ur ground & don’t downplay ur feelings cos they matter too. If she won’t take this seriously then maybe she ain’t the one. Hold up on those wedding plans till this is sorted, bro. Good luck. 💪
RUN
NTA, except for the misuse of ad hominem. Ad hominem is not random insults: it’s an argumentative fallacy in which someone says that because the person has some irrelevant characteristics, their arguments should be ignored.
So – “you’re not a real man”. Just an insult.
But “you’re not a real man so you don’t know what you’re talking about”. Ad hominem if being a real man is irrelevant (if it’s really relevant, then that’s no ad hominem either – some other brand of assholery).
yes, you can (and should) demand counseling as a NON-negotiable condition. if he refuses, pausing the wedding is not a threat, it’s common sense: don’t marry someone who insults you in every fight. minimizing the problem is normal, but write down every attack in your cell phone when you see the list, you will realize that it’s not a bad day, it’s a toxic pattern. if he doesn’t respect you now, even less after the I do
The boat is about to sink. Jump ship
If someone told me “I’m not a real woman”, I’d be leaving pretty quick. There’s never a good reason to tell your partner that. I would forgo the couples therapy and think about breaking off the relationship. You’re supposed to love your fiancee/partner more than anything and if this is how she treats you then I feel sorry for her. She’s not going to change because a therapist tells her to.
What I understood from my relationship with my abusive ex, who started like your fiancé and ended up being physical to me, is that there’s nothing I can do! It’s about the values of the other person, the lack of empathy. Try to oblige her to join you for couple therapy, but don’t take it personally if nothing changes. You don’t cause her to be like this, and it’s not your job to correct her either. If she has a drop of self awareness, she’ll work on herself, but it’s out of your hands.
Run away as fast as possible!
OP, if this happens frequently you know she won’t change. You said yourself that you’ve sat her down and talked but nothing has changed and it keeps happening over and over. Is this how you really wanna live the rest of your life. As a doormat?!
She clearly doesn’t respect you and constantly breaking you down. You gonna loose yourself if your not careful. How can you love that still?
Don’t marry this person. She is not offering you even the bare minimum in terms of respect. Generally speaking, things get harder after marriage, not easier.
The likelihood is that you’ll be miserable.
Just pause the wedding prep now, bc it sounds like she has contempt for you, and that’s a leading cause of divorce. Plus, she sounds pretty unpleasant.
NTA but you would be if you stayed. She won’t change and demanding therapy will just make her insult you more since I’m positive she believes that ‘real men don’t get therapy or show emotions’
have some self respect god damn.
I think the fact that you posted this on “Am I the Asshole” in the first place shows how much this relationship has fucked up your view of what’s acceptable in a relationship. It’s not exaggerating much to call this terms like verbally abusive, berating, badgering, all of the above. Fuck the counseling man, leave her–straight up.
Just based on what you wrote…why would you want to marry this person?
PAUSE the wedding prep?! Buddy. Read the next bit repeatedly, until it sinks in:
This is the best she’s ever going to treat you.
She probably treated you a bit better when she was wheedling an engagement ring out of you – you’re not going to get back to that treatment by marrying her. Once you’ve signed up to lose half of everything if you leave her, her lack of self control and emotional regulation is just going to escalate, because she hasn’t had any consequences for her previous bad actions.
Right now, the stakes are relatively low: a couple of bucks lost on deposits, having to tell friends and family the wedding is off. Once you’re married? Jeebus.
She doesn’t respect you, she doesn’t love you. It’s not normal in a loving relationship. You deserve better than this.
I can count on one hand a number of times I’ve yelled anything close to that at my partner ( Eff you, or you’re an asshole) in our 20+ years together, and that was during a very very bad dark time for both of us, out of total frustration & desperation. I can’t imagine casually throwing it at my partner like it’s not a big deal. Not if I plan to have a life & family with them.
Unless you’re a devout Buddhist you should understand that there are no do overs. That every time she ruins your day like this, that day is gone and devoid of happiness. So does she make you happy? Or does she ruin your life? This isn’t some little quirk, it’s full on abusive. At the minimum, you need to stop the wedding. She’s just not marriage material. What I’d suggest is that you tell her the wedding is off until she gets some help and proves OVER TIME that she has changed. If she can’t or won’t then end things altogether.
Harsh truth coming: you need to man tf up and take action. You’re asking internet people “is it okay to defend myself”? Probably keeps doing it because she’s seeing no consequences. Either enforce this boundary or call the whole thing off.
Oh and how do you make her take you seriously? First step is being willing to leave. Sneak that ring off her finger in her sleep.
NTA. This is the big red light on the side of the railway line. The barricade warning you about the dodgy bridge ahead is in sight. You have time to stop as you’re not married yet. If you go through with this marriage, things will only get worse. One of the most valuable things you can have in a marriage is peace. It’s OK to disagree on things, but it’s not OK to demean and/or control your partner. As someone who’s lived through a form of what you’re going through, DON’T go through with this. You might love her, but she has a level of disrespect that is way past anything resembling normal.
Even if she did change, you’ll find that the effect will likely be temporary, She might “behave” until the wedding, then revert back once it happens. This is a golden opportunity to reassess your future. Try to remove the emotion from it as you think about it. We are your “outsider’s perspective,” and I can guarantee a lot of us will agree with me.
When someone shows you who they really are, believe them. If you marry her, this is your future. If you two need therapy before you’re married, the marriage will never last.
Relationships are built on communication, honesty, and respect. She does not respect you. Let me go further. She belittles and insults when she is not in control. What happens when you have kids? Do you think she would speak to them this way? Would she say,”You are just like your father, stupid!”? If she is capable of hurting someone she loves (you)then she could do the same to your kids. Think about it. This is toxic. You need therapy but not for couples. You need to work out why you are putting up with being degraded. I wish you luck and hope all goes well for you.
Marriage to a person like this who outright insults you will exacerbate this behavior as it will appear to them as approval of said behavior. Marriage complicates everything.
People can change, if they want to. Her conflict resolution is probably learned behavior and ideally can be reprogrammed.
Counseling is a must if you love her and want to marry her and want her to treat you with respect and “fight fair” without insults.
Good luck.
Honestly, think long and hard about if this the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. You’re not married yet and she’s already name calling. I would personally call it off and walk.
NTAH. It’s hard to believe you could still be having any kind,of good relationship in between these spitting venomous attacks on your character by her. After every argument your self esteem must have sunk a few degrees further than the last time…which has brought you here.
Take all these comments seriously and do not believe her when she promises her mean remarks are not really true…bc in her eyes, she truly means it when she disrespects you. Call off the wedding and break off the relationship 100%, cleanly and completely. Find a proper partner that is not mean spirited when disagreements occur.
It shouldn’t be so easy for her to call you names. There’s something wrong with her. Counseling is a great start. She should lift you up but tear you down. I’m sorry. I hope counseling helps her realize how damaging her comments are.
Honestly, consider calling off the marriage and getting her to counseling.
Maybe even delay it to two years from now arbitrarily or something.
Want to be a real man? Take the ring you bought back and say if you she continues to disrespect you like this you have the right to call this off and get whatever money you can back from the jeweler.
It’s only gonna get worse when she gets even more comfortable.
If you don’t put your foot down here you’ll have hers on your face for the rest of your life.
Leave. Fuck the counseling. Leave.
I recommend a video from Brene Brown called “people will treat you how you let them”. Very insightful. Once you’ve seen it you’ll know you need to leave this awful human
That’s honestly so hurtful! I’m really sorry you’re going through that. No one deserves to be talked to like that, especially by someone who’s supposed to love and care for you. It’s not just mean, it’s belittling. I think it’s worth really taking a step back and asking yourself if this is the kind of relationship you want long term.
Thanks, all, for your input. I’m a little shocked at how not okay that behavior is. I guess I always saw it as just something we need to work on, not a huge red flag or toxic trait worth breaking things off over.
I guess I’m just a little anxious to actually have the conversation with her. And I know, in a healthy relationship you shouldn’t be anxious to tell the other person you’re hurting.
How many more chances does she get? Infinity?
If you wouldn’t let your own mother speak to you that way, don’t let anyone else speak to you that way. Stop tolerating this shit.
You say it’s unacceptable but yet you still accept it. YTA to yourself. Have some self-respect. I speak from experience, it’s not going to get better
so uh…. you know who she is… why is she still your fiancee?
NTA btw.
How about just get a chick that doesn’t talk to you like shit?
At 30 she knows the difference already. She does it to you because she needs to inflict as much pain as possible to win the moment. She may love you, but no where near as much as she loves herself.
My husband was a name caller. I realized it was a learned behavior when his mother showed up one day calling him things I never thought a parent would say to a child. It explained a lot. The 1st time he called me a name we were dating. I explained, no I won’t tolerate that. The second, we were married. I explained if he ever calls me a name again I’m gone. I will walk away!!! I understand you grew up with this, but it’s not what people do. 27 years later he has never, ever call me or anyone else a name again.
I know this is not the norm, but it is possible.l for people to change a behavior. Delay your wedding. Have the talk, ask for counseling, see if there is actually regret (for the action not the consequence), insist on counseling. It’s a problem that can be solved if there is love, respect and desire. But do not allow yourself to be disrespected like that. Do not bring kids into to that. It’s horrible to see people treated like that, much less be the one treated like that.
If you’re at the point of no return then just walk. Don’t look back.
You’re not overreacting. You’re finally reacting appropriately. Calling your partner names and attacking their character isn’t “just how people argue”… it’s verbal abuse. You’re absolutely within your rights to set counseling as a boundary. If she refuses to change or even talk about changing, you have every reason to pause the wedding. Marriage doesn’t fix disrespect… it magnifies it.
Get out while you still can.
You don’t negotiate with abuse through counselling. You walk away.
There are certain things you can never take back in a relationship. Saying you’re not a real man or you’re dumb are in that category. No way I could live w that level of disrespect even though I understand that’s probably how she grew up.
If you think this behavior is going to change after you’re married, you’re sadly mistaken. If anything it’s just going to get worse. It’s easier to end it now than after you’re married.
Do not get married to her.
Don’t marry this person. They won’t change. They are rude and disrespectful. NTA.
My ex was like that. She’s an ex for a reason.
It will only get worse once married. RUN!
I think that lack of respect is the main reason behind breakups. She’s given you yours.
Don’t marry someone who verbally abuses you.