I can justify the classification of most sins. Lying, drunkenness, gossiping, greed, covetousness, lust/lasciviousness etc etc. But I do not understand why my capacity for love is evil, and inherently disordered. Why it would be a moral good that I spend my entire life alone. It just seems so arbitrary, and it makes me afraid that I’m inherently evil, because I can’t see it as a moral evil for two men to be together. That maybe there is something so inherently evil in me that what is evil, seems good to me. But then I remeber all the other things I know for a fact to be evil, and I’m lost.
I think Christianity is a beautiful religion with a lot of good qualities, I just wish so badly I didn’t want to love a man. I’m so scared and lonely and ashamed
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It was a sin in the Old Testament but you have to understand that the Old Testament is a book based on context. “Go forth and multiply” (Gen 1:28) was what they wanted, as more people = more hands to work = more resources for humanity. My old theology teacher in uni used to say that.
That being said and with context of the olden times’ sociopolitical standing, “you should not lie with man as you do with woman” thus can be interpreted as a relation against God’s decision to be fruitful and to multiply.
Christianity is beautiful I agree, but the Bible is also a very dated book inspired by the Holy Spirit. To add as well, nothing wrong with being gay! You’re not hurting anyone, and if you want to be a Christian then just follow Jesus’ commandments in the New Testament.
I’ll just lay it out here. The Bible itself doesn’t say anything against homosexuality. Intentional misinterpretation does.
Honestly my friend, I don’t get it either and I’m not even gay. I’ve seen some people say that it was mistranslation and that it actually meant a man shouldn’t be with a boy (aka pedophilia). But idk, I don’t read Latin so can’t really judge on it.
Edit: And one more thing, I noticed you said you’re scared. Idk where you’re from, but I’m assuming that you’re scared of your family, so please listen. Blood doesn’t make you family, it makes you related. Too many people set themselves on fire to keep someone else warm. I know it’s easier said than done but go where you are wanted, there are going to be people who don’t give a damn about who you love and will welcome you with arms wide open.
Because religion is full of silly and asinine rules/commands which originated in the Bronze Age (i.e., Judaism, which early Christianity and the Old Testament stems from).
Homosexuality was never the original sin it was pedophilia due to the Bible being rewritten multiple times through multiple generations it has been misconstrued due to this. The Bible originally stated until mid 1800s that pedophilia was the sin not homosexuality. Yet many people don’t want to go look at the older versions of the Bible because just like King James created his own Bible and put what he wanted in it the others are the same. Just like how the Bible warns us that the church is evil and that most people in the church do not actually follow the word of God and are the biggest sinners. Yet we’re not ready to talk about that yet.
Because it’s not. Simple answer.
It wasn’t a sin until the King James translation of the Bible. Speak to scholars who’ve read the original Aramaic text. Most Christians use the line “Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman” to justify their position, but that’s not what the original says; the original says “Thou shalt not lie with a young boy as with a woman”. The proscription is against pedophilia, not homosexuality. If you want to stay Christian, find a different denomination than the one you were raised in that actually follows the teachings of Jesus rather than preaching the old laws that he came to replace – Episcopal, Universal Church of Christ, Methodist, etc. if you’re open to a church experience that pulls from the best of all the world’s religions (but isn’t nominally Christian), try a Unitarian Universalist church.
Don’t be ashamed of what certain religions say you can and can’t do or be.
Live your life the way you want, be good, be happy and don’t give a f about what other people say or think about you, it’s your life not theirs
Homosexuality isnt a sin, it’s found in nature in many other animals, it’s just something people dislike and threw it into the religious mix like everything else they dislike.
Quite simply, it is not. It’s only brought up by churches to raise money and create divisions in society.
I wouldn’t worry about the sin part. EVERYONE sins. So yours is just different than others. Jesus is all about forgiveness of sins. That what he died on the cross for.
Jesus, don’t wish you weren’t gay. Wish the Bible thumpers weren’t idiots.
Look at the other sins and see if they make sense. Some do, but many are super arbitrary and clearly were designed to control populations.
Maybe it’s because of the whole procreation thing like two men or two women can’t have children
People pick and choose their sins. There are hyper religious people who sin their entire life and expect to go in heaven. That is between them and God. No one else has someone else’s relationship with God. It’s honestly blasphemy to attempt to do that and tarnish/taint that relationship.
People don’t stone those to death, but being in love is a crime. It’s terrible.
I think they say it cuz the point of sex is to reproduce and because you can’t create new life without the other they say it’s a sin cuz everything has to have a reason. A function. If not it’s not natural. Not in gods plan. Sex is another job for a purpose . Fuck it. Love who u love
because it wasn’t. mistranslations of the bible did that.
You may not want to hear this, but it’s all made up bullshit. Sin isn’t real. Even homosexuality is a vague term that we constructed. On a more broad, universal level, the only sexual practices that are bad are ones that hurt people. Gay sex in and of itself doesn’t cause harm.
If you think that religion can be weaponized by governments/rulers to shape society to fit their objectives – homosexuality reduces reproductive rates, which reduces work force.
Not religious and don’t agree with this but I thought it was because they say sex is for procreation and gay people can’t make a baby that way
The one that gets me is when religious nuts say you’re going to burn in hell for eternity because you enjoy partying. The punishment just doesn’t seem to fit the crime.
According to some religion it’s not a sin. Buddhism doesn’t consider homosexuality a sin. It’s merely a person’s sexual preference has nothing to do with sins.
I think of the old testament laws as a way to keep people from illness. Like the whole tattoos being a sin and shellfish and whatnot.
It’s not. People speak about “gods perfect design” and completely negate and ignore so many things. Like the fact that intersex people exist ( people born with both genitalia/ reproductive organs). Or the fact that there has been actual scientific research that shows that there are hormonal reasons, biologic reasons behind someone who is attracted to a certain gender.
There are animals in nature that are to our definition “gay”.
It’s a part of nature that people have tried to ignore and forget about. But the reality is that everything in this life is complex and nuanced. Nothing is ever black or white.
I personally don’t understand why wearing clothing with multiple kinds of fabric is a sin, and then I remember it’s all made up bullshit.
Didn’t Jesus end the Old Testament laws when he died, and that’s the whole reason Christians follow the New Testament? When people cite the Bible to be homophobic, they’re citing the book of Leviticus from the old testament, which they themselves aren’t supposed to follow so strictly anymore.
Really? That’s the part you don’t understand? Not the talking snake or someone splitting a sea?
So I asked a very Orthodox rabbi about this years ago. This is a Jewish perspective. Yes, it’s a sin. So is eating pork. Or not keeping Shabbat. Or not following all 613 commandments. So, whatever. We all sin and aren’t perfect.
It technically isn’t. Last I checked the word of Leviticus is not the literal word of god (considering it’s a sin to claim you speak on its’ behalf), so there’s no actual evidence to suggest that it would be considered a sin by ‘God’ itself.
Plus it doesn’t make any sense. Why the hell would an omnipotent, omniscient God allow the continued existence of a sexuality he so vehemently despised? Doesn’t add up bruh
It’s not. The Bible is a made up book.
I had this exact conversation with my Christian mother a couple weeks ago. Two humans that want to be together, regardless of their gender, is not a “sin”.
One of the reasons I left Christianity. One of the hundreds of made up things that never sat right with me.
You aren’t the problem. The problem is the power constructs that call themselves religion. They are all focused on maintaining what they view as the correct way of living, to the exclusion of all others. It’s toxic, and it’s the cause of a significant proportion of the problems that exist in the world today.
Religion is a governing system and governments want babies. Gays can’t make babies.
…sin.
It’s because when the country was formed (USA, at least) all nations had a national religion. America was full of Protestants no thanks to Henry viii. So laws from Europe were guided by a Protestant version which allowed for divorce only.
This involves justifying white men owning land and people.
It’s actually not a sin at all. It’s just a way to keep the lowest the lowest, while still being able to cishet through a pool of lower class women one never has to pay or give land to.
Trust me.
It’s because wah wah me no like.
The whole concept of sin is so religious leaders can control people. That is all it is, control.
Hey, your relationship with Christ and God (should you want one) is your own. I’m transgender and gay; surely, I’m on hell’s most anticipated visitor’s list, right? Because “the church” says I am?
But that’s not their decision, at the end of the day. It’s God’s. And my relationship with Him is none of their business. When I die, it’ll only be ME standing before Him. I believe that as long as I embody the true principles of Christ (y’know, like loving thy neighbor, serving the underserved, etc), then I’ll have fulfilled my life’s duty in His eyes. No matter what people say using their version Bible (which has been interpreted and re-interpreted over and over again across centuries) as a weapon.
Don’t let an institution run by humans taint how you see yourself because you are beautiful in the eyes of God and wonderfully made in His image.
I can’t speak for every religion but I can give you the catholic explanation (as it was explained to me at catholic school in a class called theology of the body).
In the eyes of the Catholic Church sex is considered sacred for 2 reasons:
1: the union of husband & wife
2: procreation
If you take away either one or both of those factors you are sinning in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
Which can look like:
I think something very important to point out is that being gay in and of itself is NOT A SIN, the only sin would be having homosexual intercourse but it’s a very forgivable sin (again specifically speaking in regards to Catholicism).
Another thing I like to throw out for Christians to remember is that God is Love and if he is the embodiment of love, he is incapable of hate. So God does not hate the gays, he doesn’t hate immigrants, he doesn’t hate anyone! Because he is love.
And if God is the embodiment of it, I highly doubt he has issues with people expressing love in whatever form it is and probably has more beef with those who use his name in vain for their own selfish purposes.
I personally am not catholic anymore and more identity with general spirituality so I don’t really follow Catholic ways but if you want to understand more check out the Copendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church which was requested by Pope John Paul II which kinda breaks down why Catholics have the beliefs they do
It is indeed arbitrary and controlling. I’d take a long look at Christianity and the damage and harm it has caused to put it into perspective. Giving to shame for who you are is just one of its many flaws.
In older verson of the bible its not… Unconsentual Homosexuality is a sin. Sodum and gramora were place that rape was taking place.
Many things were changed as it was translated to fit with the political/Royal Agenda of the times.
The Bible is a collection of anecdotes from our ancestors lives that they held as universal truths in their lives, and or words from God. As such, context to those truths change overtime as our world changes around us. Therefore i see it as suggested guidelines for the most part, but not law, or the whole word of god. The only guy that can maybe claim the title of speaking from God is Jesus, everybody else I’m skeptical of even though I would still give gravity to what it says.
I dont think homosexuality is a sin. It’s very natural observed across the animal kingdom. I think it’s as natural and innate as personality. And that anybody who would talk down to you about this is committing a much more atrocious sin in the act of malicious intent. Hell, Jesus himself didn’t want us to build a religion around him. He wanted us to build community for each other. The community is the important part of religion, and you are very much a part of that community regardless of bigots.
There will be people who accept you for who you are and see past the church propaganda. There will be people who can’t. But what matters here is that it says more about them than it ever will about you. The hard part is loving both of those people equally, even if love sometimes means simply not wringing their neck. And that’s the part that more defines you, and what I think a God would really care about.
Because it’s not a sin. That’s it.
Judging people for their sins / morality based on something as genetic/biological as sexuality is something only people who read the stupid book does. Stupid does as stupid is.
I have seen a lot of Christians praying to their Jesus and God, be more selfish than an atheist and care less for their fellow beings. They also SA others and think they are absolved of all sins just because they attend church.
Honestly, religion is a political tool used to control the masses so dont be too bothered by it. Including the bible.
Good people who do good deeds are good people. A scum who prays to Jesus/Allah/Dieties and rape/steal/cheat are still scums.
Because a few men in power have decided that it is.
From what I gathered from living near religion, all sex without intent to reproduce is sinful.
Tradition.
Which is a key factor in all sins.
Especially since catholic priests are noted for fucking each other
Soooo….
Within Christianity, it is based primarily on one verse: Leviticus 18:23 (I think, it’s been a hot minute since I looked at the exact one). It says that man shall not lay with men as he does with women.
That is…horrifically ambiguous, and most Christian leaders took that to mean that homosexuality was a sin.
However, it ignores the fact that translating this is very difficult. Does it mean not to sleep with boys? Not to sleep with male prostitutes? Not to sleep with a guy in a woman’s bed? Not to steal a woman’s bed that she used while on her period?
All of those could be valid interpretations, as well as the classic “don’t be gay.”
However, the Old Testament laws don’t need to be followed by Christians, due to the New Covenant. In fact, Jesus healed a Roman’s slave (who would have been a male sex slave, based on the original language) and said nothing about the sexuality or anything. He never said anything about homosexuality, and it is a fairly common interpretation that he had close relations with the Apostle John (who requeny referred to himself as beloved in the gospel he wrote), or even Peter.
Paul, who was originally known as Saul, was the only major New Testament figure to disparage homosexuality. However, again, there are translation issues involved with this. And, also, the fact that Paul is an asshole and really…didn’t seem to follow in Jesus’ footsteps at times. But hey, that’s not my place to question, I suppose.
But yeah. That’s the basic rundown of “why” homosexuality is a “sin”.
Well I’m a skeptic muslim and same I don’t get it.. people say it’s a test from god 🫤🫤🫤🫤🫤🫤🫤
Christianity is a fiction made up by people dealing with their own bullshit; this seems like an important thing to note.
To quote Hellsing Ultimate:
-a catholic lesbian, justifying herself: “it’s only a sin if a man lies with another man as he would a woman”
-some guy: “so it’s only a sin if I fuck a guy in the vagina?!”
Summary: relying on ancient writings for moral guidance is weird.
Homosexuality isn’t a sin. People simply justify their hate. Christianity doesn’t say homosexuality is a sin. The Catholics do. Protestants preach love for all. Hell, the preach at my local church is gay and happily married to an amazing man. Of course it all depends on the country, culture and such.
You shouldn’t hate yourself for being gay. homosexuality has always existed. Long before Christianity and it will long after (hopefully)
Like religion in theory, but I honestly can’t stand behind any theistic religion. The amount of hypocrisy makes my head spin the thousands of interpretations of a book translated hundreds of times have made it so you can justify your hate and bigotry in the name of a book. No matter what you hate.
If I were you I would learn more about the world. Find out how batshit crazy it actually is and how little liking the same gender actually matters. I will also recommend you to visit LGBTQ subs as they are great to help build confidence and give support.
I was like you. Homophobia, racism and religion were all around me when I grew up. I was sent to the principal’s office for drawing God as a woman in Christianity class. I was bullied for not wanting confirmation the worst thing you could call someone was the gay f-slur as nothing was more insulting. I grew up hating. Which in turn made me hate myself. Why? Because deep within I realised I wasn’t straight, but I couldn’t let that happen.
Later in life I started hating the world. Religion, politics and powerful madmen. I started to accept I was me. Kind people on the internet taught me about LGBTQ. I moved and learned that outside of the town I grew up in everyone was different and nobody cared. I started to love individuality and I started to only be attracted to people who let themselves be who they are.
So many are close minded. They want everything to fit into 2 boxes and anything too complicated and they feel threatened. Nuance isn’t a thing for them.
This is strictly personal opinion, but I think a lot of religious rules originated to help increase the number of members of the religion. In Catholocism, no contraception and no abortions means more children. Those children being raised by Catholics means there is a pretty good chance they will be Catholic thus increasing the number of catholics. Homosexuality is a sin because 2 of the same gender can’t make more little Catholics. I also think this is why pork is forbidden in Judaism and Islam. If you live in a desert, pork will go bad really quickly and make you sick or kill you if you eat it. If the Rabbi or Imam says God has forbidden us from eating pork then you don’t have to worry about the congregation eating pork and getting sick or dying. Most of these rules are thousands of years old in many cases so the easiest way to explain things at the time was “God says don’t do it”. Again just personal opinion, but it makes sense to me.
because man and man can’t make baby & no baby = no tithe, no tithe = no church, & no church = no job, and no job means no money for the noble priestly class to do their drag and gowns and little gilded hats.
I took a religion class in college and my takeaway from it was that it basically boils down to homosexuality and contraception are frowned upon because no children can come from it. What’s the best way to recruit new members and grow your religion? Children of the faithful.
>I think Christianity is a beautiful religion with a lot of good qualities,
It is, but you also don’t need to be Christian. You can appreciate it for what it is, its rituals and some of the good messages it brings, but you can choose not to be Christian.
>I just wish so badly I wasn’t gay.
You cannot choose not to be gay.
Wishing is a fairytale. I don’t know how old you are, but self-acceptance is an important part of maturing as a person. If you feel self-hatred over a part of you you cannot control, then you should seek professional help. Not religious, but genuinely professional, psychological help.
You were born with your fingernails. Do you wish you didn’t have them? You were born with the ability to talk. Do you wish you weren’t able to?
Just because a bunch of self-centred, hateful, old people decided that a specific trait that does not affect them is distasteful to their delicate little minds does not mean it is a sin. It means they have hatred in their hearts and they should be pitied.
You can’t because you are trying to understand something ancient using the modern way of thinking, this actually has a name. Anachronism. The holy books of the abrahamic religions have been written by men in a very different historic context then today’s
Spoiler alert.
It’s not
I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over it.
Sunday Church goers are Monday-Saturday sinners.
There are many things prohibited in the Bible that are ignored to suit the lifestyles of others.
The bible says that men who lie with men as they lie with women is an abomination to Jesus. I don’t agree but that would convince some people to place it in the sin pile.
Because it’s not.
Same answer as any theological: because Church says so.
We can discuss Bible or holy scripture of choice all we want, but it comes to that.
I mean… tbh?? Only thing that matters is the belief that:
1.) Jesus died for your sins (whatever those are) so your perceived sins were already forgiven. I don’t think being gay is the sin, but if you think that then know you’ve already been forgiven. Also, finally, 2.) Jesus is the son of God
There you go, you are saved. Congratulations.
Again, I don’t think you need to apologize or find fault within yourself, but if you are scared and are seeking some form of religious reassurance, hope that helped
It’s not. Like all things, the mention of homosexuality in the bible in context is a sin – and that context is in regard to infidelity or coercion of the other person, not the act itself.
The story of Lot? The great sin was the lack of hospitality and the desire to rape the men. Not that they were gay. Had the city been hospitable and welcomed the men and provided lodging and food, it wouldn’t have earned God’s wrath. There were also rapists and those rapists just happened to want to rape men or women. They were terrible people, no matter their sexuality. That was the point. The city was full of generally bad people who couldn’t do the smallest thing without bringing harm. Their sexuality had zero to do with it.
Every instance in the bible where it condemns men lying with men is in the context of a married man lying with another man. Cheating is cheating, which God frowns on. But it’s also a very old text and nuance is lost through translation.
So first I will classify, I am not religious nor do agree with homosexuality being a sin.
I always thought the logic was that since 2 men couldn’t be married at the time, that would mean they were not only having intercourse without the intention of procreation, but doing the same act meant for giving life but instead of physical enjoyment. Let alone having “multiple partners means you are sinning and leading others into temptation.
It seems that sex should be viewed as a loving act with your married partner and strictly for the purpose of making babies.
So homosexuality seems to be not so much a sin in that the same gender is not that bad, but having sex for pleasure is bad. Though it could be that homosexuality is blamed as a gateway towards other temptations.
Though honestly I’m of the as long as the people having sex are consenting, who cares. Let people love whomever they love.
Its not.
Because some random guy who supposedly wrote an important book, to some, said it’s wrong. Completely arbitrary.
It isn’t.
Because a bunch of ancient desert nomads didn’t like it
Because it’s not a sin. Religious persecution is a man-made invention to suppress, control and terrorize members of society who do not want to comply with their rules. The sin is not real. And the terror that they want you to feel is also not real unless you give them that power. You be you. You do you. Do it shamelessly and bravely, and completely disregard what anyone else in this world thinks, because at the end of your life the only thing you’re left with is the life you lived to experience. No second chances at the end of it all. So. Don’t live it by other people’s “not real” rules and implications.
Institutional bigotry is a tale as old as time.
This is just what I’ve heard and idk if it’s true or not.
The word homosexual replaced the word pedophile about 80 to 100 years ago. Homosexuality was never a sin, they shifted the attention on it because they wanted to get away with you know what.
Homosexuality was never and is not a sin
You are 100% right to point out that it does not make sense. I grew up in a very conservative Christian environment and even I, a straight man, came to the conclusion that it made no sense in my late teens.
I left Christianity entirely, but if you feel connected to the faith there are plenty of churches that affirm who you are as a person. You can find a religious community that makes you feel like you are beautiful just the way you are. I can’t imagine how it feels when the majority of the faith says you are bad for being who you are, but there groups that don’t believe that. You are right, Christianity can be a bueatiful religion, but we have to reform it so that people don’t feel scared, lonely, and ashamed because of their sexual orientation
It’s almost as if organized religion is more interested with controlling people than it is with what’s actually right vs wrong.
Because people back then didn’t want a lot of non-breeding adults. Bear in mind how high the infant mortality rate was, and how even just one thought of flu could knock out the whole village, so you want the people to be as fruitful as possible.
Well my friend, I am sorta in the same situation. It really sucks. I don’t know if God’s gonna let my feelings stay or if He’ll change them. I’m just praying that He would put me on the path He wants me to take. Wherever He leads me, I’ll follow.
this!!!🎯
Pope Francis said it is isn’t, unless you are a protestant or member of a cult like the Mormons I see no problem.
Religion is a constantly evolving and changing understanding of intention and text.
God didn’t write the Bible, it’s a collection of gospels written by various authors. Some texts are written in the Bronze Age and others in late antiquity. Imagine how different language and society was back when it was assembled.
If you believe in a loving god then I think it’s safe to assume you are loved by that god if you treat its creations with love and respect
Its pretty basic. In biblical times gay people didnt create more followers for the religion.
Pretty much Everything is a sin
Youre alone because you don’t go to church and surrender to its norms. Youre not a team player = alone you go.
Gay is sin due to «spillage of seed». Unless you make baby, no pleasure. Only baby is good use of sperm.
This Logic requiers marriage to be for life and between Man and woman. As womans reproductive skill and sexual pleasure is traded for the safety and labour you provide with the church as safety in Numbers. With abortion and divorce it no longer makes sense.
It’s all biology and the hard facts of life. Not much pleasure and subjective and individualism
Religion is a sexually transmitted disease, if you don’t have heterosexual sex you don’t grow the flock.
Thank you for attending my T.E.D. Talk.
Homosexual relationships cannot produce children, which is bad for peasant communities, who are the main target demographic of abrahamic religions
My theory is that the church was concerned with birthrates when it was determined to be a sin hundreds/thousands of years ago.
At the time when religious texts were being written wasting semen was the sin. I don’t think it had anything to do with anything other than sex should be for procreation.
Because in the Catholic understanding, we are not supposed to enjoy sex because that is being lustful whic his a sin. We are supposed to have sex only for procreation purposes, which gay men cannot have.
(I don’t agree with this – just to make things super clear)
“Gay sons wont make children. Why trade my livestock or break my daughters heart if i dont get a return on my investment? “ -someone probably
Its just a bullshit made up sin. If there was a God and he loved us all he wouldn’t discriminate.
I think the idea of homosexuality is interlinked with the whole “be fruitful and multiply” verse.
It’s stupid though. Necessary back then probably, because the earth wasn’t as populated as it is today, and there were a lot of animals God created that needed humans to take care of them, as well as people to tend to crops, but it’s very outdated now.
Even if you don’t want children as a straight couple, it’s still possible to have them. There’s no chance of it at all if you’re gay. God wanted his people to focus on having more children (which only a man and a woman can do) instead of “choosing to be gay” (in quotes because it’s definitely not a choice) and focusing on themselves and their partners.
Children change the directory of your life. When you choose to have a child, your life will now revolve around them. God wanted more people to spread his word. By telling his people to have children, he’s effectively killing two birds with one stone:
Not having children gives people a reason to focus on and prioritise themselves and their partners. As they should do. God doesn’t want that. I’m of the opinion that God is very egotistical and narcissistic. He doesn’t like nor want homosexuality because he wants to hone down the idea that you can only be happy with the person you love because you can procreate.
Gay people directly go against that idea. People find happiness in themselves without needing to have children, they find love from all genders, not just the one you can reproduce with. It goes against his desire to have people worship him and see him as a “good God.”
Or, you know, it was mistranslated and actually was talking about paedophilia. Either works. 🤷♀️
The Bible describes the categories of people and points out the mistakes that people find most difficult to give up in order to reach the highest levels of intelligence and put God first in their lives. If there is no God, then there is no intelligence either.
It addresses exclusively those who voluntarily want to unite with the living God and does not refer to unbelievers.
So, whoever doesn’t put God first is out of the race. The goal is God
Don’t worry about it. They also consider heterosexual orientation to be ” objectively disordered “, too.
Heterosexual orientation is disordered because it leads to:
And unlike homosexuality, only heterosexual orientation is the direct cause of
And a whole host of other grievous sins.
Sins are the lie. There are only mistakes (not saying homosexuality is a mistake). Sins are like rules enforced by something outside of yourself. Break them and you are punished. But flip the narrative: there are mistakes you make in life and are usually punished for them accordingly. Either through mental, emotional, or physical (financial, social, professional, etc) pain you’re punished. You make the choice and you are punished or rewarded according to the natural law of reciprocity. However, the order of consequence is dependent on the perspective of the individual who made the action. (You and I can be in the same accident, but you could get trauma and I could not. Our perspectives are different.) You may think you’re rewarded for homosexuality. Therefore, you usually are. Through mental, emotional, sexual, etc gratification. Those who believe homosexuality is a sin are usually punished if they partake in homosexuality. This doesn’t mean something external punished us, but that our own minds acted according to belief and reality fell in line with our internal state.
Sir, if you believe you’re making a mistake by partaking in homosexuality, then you are. If not, then you’re not. If you experience hate from others, it’s a projection of their ego and only serves as an opportunity to grow. Regardless of how much it sucks.
No need to get too philosophical. There’s no chance of reproduction between two people of the same sex. No reproduction = no babies. No babies = no more growth for religion. This is simplified to the max but the logic is there.
People cherry pick things from the Bible. Do you eat pork, cut the hair over your ears, shave, or enjoy shellfish of any sort? Sinners. All you clean cut shrimp eaters are sinners! And don’t even get me started on the forbidden bacon cheeseburger. Meat and dairy?!? Repugnant, I say! Nocturnal emissions when you were a young teen? Spilled seed!
Obviously none of these things are moral sins; they’re cultural “codes” from the times. Let’s talk about some other, maybe more recent cultural “codes” we’ve seen: no women’s voting, enslavement, segregation, bi-racial marriages being illegal, child labor… The list goes on. Just because these things were on a piece of paper as “the law of the land” doesn’t make it any more right than the law of the land from 2,000 years ago.
Let him who is without sin be the first to cast a stone… The god I believe in created us ALL in their image, and wants us to all live a life with joy and love that doesn’t bring harm to others.
It’s not. Really.
Nothing says it is.
This is just biggots misreading what they want.
Technically Playing football is a bigger sin requiring DEATH! and with clearer messages that it is. To provide evidence that they are just picking and choosing that they want to follow.
And the debate goes DEEP AF!
I could see, back when life was harrowing and there were a million ways to die that you couldn’t avoid, having everyone contributing to the gene pool would have been necessary. The men needed to get those ladies pregnant! You can’t waste sperm on an infertile partner!
But today – there are options. You can follow your heart as far as I’m concerned – with my blessing. You have other ways to contribute to the pool now if you are so inclined. I don’t think “god” really cares if you are gay. God is love. Go love.
Sin is a made up term.
To make it as simple as possible.
All sex is a sin. Wanting sex and sexual gratification is a sin. However, one must make babies. And to make babies, one must have sex.
So. The only way for sex not to be a sin is for the purpose of making babies.
So, if you’re having sex without the purpose of making babies, it’s a sin. ie sex outside of marriage, and same sex sex.
EDIT: Just want to clarify, this is not my belief. I think the above logic is dumb as rocks. But this is what is taught in a lot of religions.
It’s not a sin, there is nothing wrong with you or who you love. Why would God make you in a way that he hates, if he loves you? Think about it. Like you say yourself it’s not a choice, you can’t stop loving the same gender, this is just who you are. The problem is you have been lied to. Honestly if you ask me, the freaks are the ones, who are so concerned about what you do in bed with another consenting adult.
Edit, just to say..you have nothing to feel shameful about. You’re not a sinner for loving and I’d question anything that promotes the hatred of people loving one another.
It’s not a sin. A an should not lie with a BOY, as in don’t diddle children, but they translated it as man, for obvious a
I’m an atheist so you can dismiss anything I say if you want, but imo the truly evil thing is making people feel so bad about wanting consensual romantic relationship that they feel evil, unsafe, and scared. What’s evil is all the wonderful gay folks who have been made to feel so evil that they killed themselves, instead of simply living their lives. You say you like your religion, but imo, anyone who requires worship with a threat of eternal pain and suffering, that person is abusive.
Probably because they are disruptive to society. No one likes a shit stirrer
It’s not.
Because it isn’t. A bunch of ppl have decided that it is and the want to impose that on ppl
Friend don’t let anyone tell you you are evil. You are not. God made you in his image. He made you to spread love and to be loved. You love a man and I truly as a Christine do not believe that is a sin. Be good, do good and love unconditionally and you’ll be fine in Gods eyes.
It’s ridiculous
Religion has exerted a variety of efforts to control and limit people’s sexuality because it contains so much of our creative potential and because they want to ensure a restrictive social order that makes people easier to control. And that goes for all the shaming and weirdness around straight sexuality within religion too.
Thats because, it’s ✨not ✨
It’s rooted in a bunch of things–the view of masculinity at the time, cultural norms, pagan worship, etc.
If you’re looking for a strictly textual answer, I think you can infer a solid biblical rationale for homosexuality being wrong from Genesis. Namely, the first commandments man received aside from don’t eat from the tree of knowledge were
Genesis 1:28. Be fruitful and multiple, fill the earth, and subdue it (steward creation): This would necessarily require heterosexual relationships in order to fill/subdue. Especially after the fall, when death entered the world.
Genesis 2:24. Man is to leave his parents and join his wife. A continuation of the above rule and the means by which it is to be accomplished.
These are the oldest divine imperatives. Practically speaking, the wise stewardship of the world, I would think, has the same moral kind of weight as not stealing or killing–we are maintaining and sheparding God’s creation.
If you’re looking for some other moral rationale of why it’s bad, like stealing is wrong because you’re depriving someone of something, I don’t think you’ll find it in the Bible. All we really have got, if you reject the Pauline exposition on the issue as non-authoritative, is the fairly clear inferences of these initial commands and the weight of a command from God.
At the end of the day, the conception of what is right and wrong to us largely hinges on the morality and values of the culture we grow up in. Things we find morally okay would be viewed as horrible back then and vice versa. We either pick and choose what we want to follow, or we stick with what’s in the book.
Personally, I don’t give a fuck and don’t think homosexuality is wrong. Do what you want, God will figure it out later and that’s not my business.
It isn’t.
I don’t agree with this sentiment, but I think it’s because the Bible encourages people to reproduce (“be fruitful and multiply”) , and since same-sex partners “can’t reproduce organically”, it’s considered “wrong” or “bad”
It’s also the reason why women in church who choose not to have kids, or have medical conditions that make them infertile or other, are also heavily stigmatized and looked down upon in religious spaces – “like they have “failed” in some way
I also think that’s why some red states are trying to ban IVF, because it’s not an “organic” way to pregnancy-
Again I don’t agree with these statements and think people should be allowed to love who they want or have kids or not have kids however they want etc,
But a lot of these “sinful” things have to do with procreation.
Well, you would need to value Religious teaching to give any credence to that idea. Moreover, the real litmus test comes from the abundance of homosexuals and pedophiles that hide within the “walls” of organized religion. Wrap your head around that reality and maybe you’ll sleep a little better. You are not bad, evil, “sinful” or broken. You are perfect the way you are. There is a minority that has a problem and that problem is not yours.
You shall practice abstinence to avoid sin
The line they reference is in the Old Testament and you have to think of the context. Jewish tribes were desert dwellers that were told by god to go forth and multiply. Can’t multiply if you’re having sex with other guys.
It’s a morality thing to them because they want more of them. Same with Christians, they were a small group of a Jewish offshoot so they were told to go forth and multiply. It’s a population thing that’s lost meaning now that there are billions of followers. Kinda tends to happen when you blindly follow a 2000 year old text.
Also have to think about how they wanted to differentiate themselves from the Romans or whoever were oppressing them (Babylonians, Persians, etc). They were often sexually promiscuous. Weaker argument, but I’m sure there was some guy that was like “yeah!”
Most people think like that because the Bible teaches them so. Or they perceive it that way.
I think at moments like these it’s important to remember that the Bible and its the rules around Christianity and it’s contemporaries have been written and rewritten through thousands of years now. I think that when it comes down to it, it really has to be up to the individual to look between the lines and find what’s meaningful to them and what contradicts the message of the work.
As a catholic, there’s a lot I really disagree with or dislike about some teachings and I think it’s best to take a more personal approach to religion.
It creates an enemy to hate and also they insist that sex is meant to make more loyal minions so don’t spill the seed. Religions control marriage and sex to make more followers and grow the religions numbers.
I was raised going to church and while I’m not gay it was one of the reasons I decided that religion is nothing more than superstition
When you’ve got a 50% childhood mortality rate and an expected lifespan under 50, you need everyone working to replace the population.
IT’S NOT. Never was. Never will be.
It’s not
^^ other comments are probably right about it being a pedo mistranslation.
However, I think it also has to do with two people of the same gender not being able (biologically) to have kids together. A lot of “modern” Christian beliefs about love, marriage, and women seem to be ancient laws that were used to encourage people to have large families— something that was important back them when there was higher widespread infant mortality, but is actually an issue now with overpopulation.
People are flawed. People create religion. Ergo, religion is flawed.
The stories aren’t written down by one author, in fact not even by known authors. The stories were all written many many years after they ‘happened’. They were translated and mistranslated, compiled and collected and selected by commissions of people (those flawed beings I mentioned earlier), and spoken about by people using all sorts of buildings no Jesus had ever preached in and no systems of hierarchy he ever endorsed.
Then this power (because that is what you have when you have money and people that follow your every word because you tell them stories about hell and also they can’t read) is used to start wars and kill those that have different world views, take people’s children and molest them and do basically every fucking terrible thing to every minority on the planet including a very specific majority: women.
Then we enter the modern age (not that these things magically stopped happening, mind you) and the people (the flawed ones, both leaders and certain followers) will pick which vices and sins they want to be able to do themselves, declaring them virtually meaningless. Others, like the one you speak of, have been deemed very meaningful to some very specific people (the most flawed ones, I would imagine).
My take on it is this: Spirituality was not invented when the first kinds of hindu scipture was written down some three thousand years ago. It has always existed because people (the flawed ones) also seem to feel connected to something bigger, something unseen, and with one another. Personally I don’t like the idea of the christian god, I just can’t really get over the ‘dronwning every person except my boy Noah’ thing. Jesus seemed like a proper good guy, like a chill hippie, and I think he would cringe the fuck out of his skin if he saw what kind of epic structures of wealth and power and hypocrysy many religious instutions have become. Little true faith is left.
Remember: Faith is about love, connectedness, openness, tolerance. It is supposed to be good things, not add more bad things to the world. I think the bible has a lot of value from a storytelling and historical perspective, but it simply seems to contain too much fucked up shit to be able to dictate peoples behaviour. If you want to take anything from it: listen to the things Jesus said. I’m not even religious but he seemed like a proper rolemodel.
I’m gay too. There’s soo much value in being gay, the evolutionary theories behind differences in human sexuality is really interesting and you might find it validating your reason to exist. You are not a mistake, if there is a god they fucking love you cause they effing made you, consciously. You are smart, that’s why you can’t understand why people could seriously say these hateful things and call it ‘faith’.
It’s like calling men and women equal but forbidding a woman from ever becoming pope.
#irony #ripperdepope
Hope this helps in any way.
TL;DR Homosexuality is “a sin” because King James (yes, THAT King James) was way too buddy-buddy with one of his courtiers and the church officials working on his translation of the Bible wanted to scare him straight.
The original verses have nothing to do with consensual sex between adult men – they refer to temple prostitution, pederasty, and defiling oneself by engaging in sexual acts in an “unclean” (menstruating) woman’s bed.
Christians (among other religions) believe sex is purely for procreation, and any sexual activity that doesn’t involve procreation is sinful because it’s lustful. That includes masturbation, sex out of wedlock, watching porn, etc. I don’t support that belief personally, and it’s one of the many reasons I don’t follow any religions. I (also a gay man) don’t need fear of eternal punishment or promise of reward to do good deeds, and neither should you.
It doesn’t make sense because it’s not rooted in logic. It’s pure, unadulterated bigotry. It’s not a sin. Never was
It isn’t.
Welcome to the Episcopal Church! 🎉
It’s called out in the Bible as a reason to denied the after life? If you are looking deeper than that I can give it..
Control
The Bible doesn’t say anything about homosexuality.
It does say that a man should not lie with another man as if he would do so ‘with a woman’ but that’s not a sex thing. In the ancient world there was a strict hierarchy of who had agency. Sex was something that men (active) DID to women (passive). To put a man in a passive role – the same role as a woman – debased the man and upset the natural order. This would pollute the land and cause crops to fail. The only solution was the deaths of all involved. Men could engage in whatever they wanted to on an equal basis.
The warping of this into the present day anti-lgbtq rhetoric would baffle the writers of the Bible verses.
ALSO lesbians get off with everything. The only price of girl-girl action in the Bible gets a glowing review from God (I think it’s in the Book of Ruth) so anyone disapproving of a lesbian relationship because of their ’Christian beliefs’ doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
TL;dr: the ancient writers were OK with girl-girl and OK with boy-boy as long as everyone was a top.
Maybe reconsider your stance on religion? It is not based on login for one thing, and it is a tool to control fools. Maybe you should start thinking for yourself instead of letting mythology tell you your whole life’s meaning and how to live. Also, morality is, if you consider the whole universe, subjective. But as a human who is alive now, maybe the only evil is intentionally making those who do not deserve pain, suffer.
It’s not. People are just mad that gay people can have happy relationships while they’ve hated their wife for 37 years.
For real though, I grew up Christian and I don’t think I ever understood. I didn’t understand it well for a long time but hey, now I’m gay so I guess it all worked out in the end.
Cults do what Cults do.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that 2 consenting, same-sex adults can’t be together. Nowhere.
bc gay bad apparently
Disclaimer: This is me guessing WHY its considered a sin, I don’t actually believe the following lol
If I had to guess, it’s probably like the, “don’t eat pork” rule where you do it to avoid disease (in this case, sexually transmitted diseases.) This would also explain why lesbianism is less stigmatized in religious texts and they tend to focus on man on man relationships, since you just don’t see as many STDs in that demographic.
Yes, straight people also get STDs, but this is “justified” by the baby, which is also why in many religions you shouldn’t have sex until married and with the intention to have kids.
With the addition of IVF and modern healthcare, these stigmas are becoming less necessary for human survival, and are gradually becoming obsolete
You reminded me of my Mormon faith:
Leaders: Being gay is wrong because in order to go to heaven, you need to be married and have kids.
Gay man: So you are saying I should marry a woman and make both of us miserable all our lives?
Leaders: No, that would be awful. Leave the women alone. You should stay single and lonely.
Gay man: But if I do that, I still won’t get into heaven. So what’s the point?
Leaders: I have no idea, but I’m confident that God will be happy if you are single and lonely.
Hi, I’m queer, Jewish, and grew up Christian (I converted as an adult.) I haven’t read the Christian scriptures in a long time and can’t speak much to the part about Paul condemning — a Greek term that’s been controversial to translate but might refer to gay or effeminate men. But *that verse* in Leviticus often translated as “a man shall not lie with a man as he does with a woman”?
First of all, Christians are no more obligated to follow that law than they are obligated to keep kosher. Many of the laws in the Hebrew Bible are specific ritual laws *for Jews* and are not supposed to be universal. Judaism does not consider a gentile who eats shellfish to be immoral for doing so. And Christians have that whole thing about Jesus replacing the law, so it makes no real sense for them to act like that one verse is relevant to them.
Now as for the verse itself, there are many interpretations of it. For one thing, the Hebrew doesn’t translate directly into English in a way that makes sense but a close approximation is “a man shall not lie with a man the lyings of women.” The rabbis of the Talmud interpreted this to be a specific prohibition against male-on-male anal sex. It’s not a prohibition on close, romantic, and/or erotic relationships between men (let alone between women); it’s prohibiting one very specific sex act. And again it’s not relevant at all to people who aren’t Jewish.
Now there are a lot of interpretations that consider it to only be a ban on sex that is abusive in some way, such as involving a child or anyone who isn’t consenting. But the plain reading of it says nothing about lesbians, and says nothing about gay male relationships, kissing, manual and oral sex, etc.
As for why people think being gay is a sin, I think it comes down to the simple and unfortunate fact that some people can’t handle anyone being different.
TLDR; being gay isn’t a sin, and homophobes using Leviticus 18 as justification would do well to hop over a chapter and read: “and you shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
I say this as someone who is gay and not religious. I do not agree with this theory. The explanation I have heard, is that for people who are super strict about their beliefs sex is only allowed within a marriage, and with the purpose of producing children. Any other sex is sinful. “marriage is between a man and woman” gets thrown in along with that. Now, sex for children only is ridiculous due to the many people who suffer from infertility not being included in this sin count, but thats what I’ve been told. Also when sex being only for kids was supposedly decreed, the earth wasn’t overpopulated I think we have some excuse now. Idk, not religious just been told how I’m sinning.
Please read What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality (hint: nothing). The texts have been warped, and modern so-called Christian leaders have manipulated it further. I was raised in a very Christian household – mother was the child of a Methodist minister, and dad’s father was a southern baptist preacher. They raised us first and foremost to think for ourselves. Youngest of 7 – didn’t come out to family until 30. Both parents immediately embraced me and shot down the current homophobic views of US Christianity.
You can do a few things in your situation – reject the religion – as I have done (because I do not believe in the fundamental belief of Christianity; that god was, in Jesus, reconciling himself to the world) – move commas to suit your denomination, or you can align yourself with a more modern sect of the faith. Try a UU church, or Methodist.
There are plenty of liberal congregations that accept lgbtq. I no longer consider myself Christian, but the last church I attended was very liberal and did more for the lgbtq and homeless community than any other church I’ve seen.
Because it was written by people, and a lot of religious people between time of writing and now think gay people are icky; including the authors, the translators, and relevant political leaders.
It really was not. The word was originally youth. Man shall not lay with youth