I 46F have been friends with Amy 52 F for over 20 years. We met when our kids were little. We found ourselves in the same play dates groups and quickly became friends. I come from a poor background. When we met I was in school, living in trailer and struggling with a disabled child that required surgeries away from home . She has championed me through college, starting my career, buying a house and eventually divorce. Amy comes from lots of money, college educated. Her house is a McMansion with a pool. The house always clean and proper. When the kids were growing up it was a nice place to relax with my friend as the kids played. I supported her as her marriage is emotionally abusive and chose to stay. He has gotten better through the years but it’s still hard. She single handedly raised those kids and brought in most of the income. She is superwoman. Even though I think she sometimes suffers from toxic positivity i truly love her outlook on life.
The only part we have disagreed on over the years is how to raise children. For example if my child forgot her lunch box in 6th grade for the 5th time. I would tell my kid I’m sorry you are hungry you can either buy lunch in the cafeteria or wait till you get home to eat. Maybe the first time I would bring the lunch but not the 5th. The way she would handle it is she would always bring the forgotten lunch or even reward them by checking them out of school to take them to lunch. My kids had to work for a car. I would put money aside and dollar for dollar I would combine money and buy my kids a car. Her kids were handed a car the day they turned 16. Lastly I fully supported my kids going to college. We worked as a team. My kids understood they had to have a good school application and worked very hard. We worked as a team getting them scholarships. All my kids graduated college debt free. It was a sacrifice to do so and one of my kids couch surfed for a semester. Her kids got horrible grades and then got college paid for by family money. They didn’t even look at scholarships as they didn’t qualify for any. One child took 6 years to graduate due to partying and one dropped out after a year after my friend paid for 2 semesters in which her daughter didn’t even show up once to classes that semester. As friends we took this diffidence in stride even though she would occasionally say how unfair my kids life was as she thought I could have made life easier for them. I do have the means to help my kids now and I do when appropriate.
Here is the rub. Amy’s daughter Emma dropped out of college and landed in their game room and hasn’t left. That was almost 3 years ago. Emma is 22 and never dated, doesn’t have any friends and has gained more than 150 pounds. She plays video games about 20 hours a day. When I visit the air is thick with cussing and anger because she is on her game and yells. Last week she asked me to come over and help with something upstairs. I hadn’t been up there in years. We go from room to room giving my advice and I open the door to the game room. I hear Amy inhale and say OOPS. I look and there is about about 2 feet of trash waste on the floor. From coke cans to cookie wrappers. Emma has been sitting on the couch and throwing her trash behind the couch. This is weeks of trash. There is a bowl with yellow fluid near the couch . I closed the door and didn’t say anything. We continued as nothing happened.
Over the years Amy has gotten very protective of Emma. No one can ever suggest that Emma isn’t thriving in life. In the past I brought up the fact that Emma needs therapy for an addiction and possibly depression. It is true that Emma has been about 2 years behind her peers socially through her life. Amy’s profession is helping severely disabled children so she knows this and never allowed help for Emma. Emma can be loving and funny. Like pee your pants funny. She has a lot of offer but so very spoiled at this point. Addiction has made her a shell of the person she was.
I love my friend. I love her daughter but I feel I can’t say anything about this and that is killing me. The years of not saying anything about the elephant in the room is taking its toll on this relationship and on my best friend. I feel guilty as it’s not my business but I can’t help but judge. I want to help my friend but also I’m tired of the behavior I’ve seen increasing over the years. I just want to vent I guess so that I can show up with a smile on my face the next get together.
Comments
Not your circus, not your monkeys.. Say something and you might have the consequence of no longer having a friend.
You can’t help people who don’t want help. I would lay it all out on the table just to clear my head, but don’t be surprised if it results in her cutting contact. Which could be a good thing because it sounds like this friendship may have run its course.
Worth possibly losing a friendship. The friendship is actively dying, so say something and try to help while you can.
You seem like a good friend, but your friend is facing consequences just like your kids did. She will learn or she won’t.
I will also say- all kids aren’t equal, your parenting methods may not have worked on her kids. She may have a severe anxiety disorder you’re not privy to.
Mind your business, telling her what to do and judging her won’t fix anything
I think APS should be called.
I had a situation similar to this. My best friend comes from a very unfortunate home and she ended up adopting three of her siblings when she was 18-19 years old – we’d been best friends for about a year at this point. Her eldest brother adopted the rest. She struggled with discipline, feeling awful for how they were treated, so they got away with a lot. I was more strict, saying they needed boundaries and discipline or they’d “walk all over her” (which they did).
In therapy for non-related issues I mentioned how me and her were at odds. It took awhile but through therapy I managed to let go of my anger – which I had on my friend’s behalf. They’d scream at her or cuss at her and I’d get so furious but she let it happen. I had to distance myself and realize that if she wanted to tolerate that behavior then she can and will. It wasn’t my job to get mad for her.
Today, I’m proud to say they’re all doing really well. One of the boys is in high school still, a junior. The other two are working hard. One of them lives with me now, going to college and he works. He moves out in August to attend a college a few hours away. The other one rents out a place his eldest brother owns. His younger brother who’s a senior has moved in with him. They both work for their elder brother who has his own company. They’re respectful, hardworking, and very intelligent boys. It’s been extremely difficult but we made it through.
I don’t take much credit but I do joke that we raised some pretty good kids. I helped her a lot where I could and even home schooled them during Covid. It’s been a ride, haha.
I hope and your friend can work things out. When it comes to family it can be an extremely sensitive topic.
If your friend is really a friend, sometimes you have to tell her the hard stuff. Yes, she might get angry and stop talking to you, but someone needs to tell her that what she is doing is hurting her child. Tell her with tact and make sure she knows you are coming from a place of love. Sometimes people need a wake up call and need someone to say the hard things
At this point, any friend you have has a decent chance of having a child like that. You could dump this friend and make another one who didn’t come from wealth and the same thing. It’s pretty widespread from what I understand. In your shoes I would just keep my mouth shut.
You taught your kids consequences, that’s why they turned out well. Your friend doesn’t understand that concept, but you have a chance to teach her now. Distance yourself and protect your peace or speak to her about it. Either way the friendship is damaged, your values just don’t align.
My stepson is Emma.
He’s a gamer, is beyond messy, didn’t finish college, smokes, tokes, is very adhd and doesn’t work. Very entitled. Total failure to thrive.
It’s not like my husband doesn’t know all of this. He has tremendous guilt over being the parent your friend has been. Too indulgent. Too permissive. Total Enabling. Raising him to be entitled.
My husband has tried ultimatums, forcing him to get a beginning laborer type job, etc…nothing changes.
So you saying anything isn’t likely to enlighten her. Even if she is in some denial…she still knows she has failed this child. It’s likely to make her defensive and to feel bad.
If she brings it up at some point, perhaps think about what you will say…that won’t hurt her and will make her feel supported. Perhaps consider just listening and comforting her.
At this point the only thing she can likely do is kick her out and cut her off and force her to get a job to survive. And it doesn’t sound like she wants to do anything but to keep enabling .
I would say something, but you’re likely to lose your friend. But realistically, can you keep being her friend and watching this happen? I couldn’t. I’d rather let her know my concerns and then let her either carry on blindly or help her through it.
“Amy, I was a bit shocked with Emma’s room. Whenever you’re ready to talk about it, I’m here to listen.”
Best shot I can think of. Acknowledges the elephant in the room but leaves the ball on her side of the court.
That’s really tough, you’re carrying love, concern, and frustration all at once, and it’s heartbreaking when silence starts to feel like betrayal.
She knows. Trust me she knows the truth. The truth also is she has given up.
Another truth is. She has money. It’s harder for moms with money to push the kids out when they have so much.
Another truth is she was abused by husband. Was the daughter too? Bet she was.
Another truth bet the abuse turned her into a doormat and the behavior continues with the daughter being the abuser.
And how can she escape this? She feels so so trapped behind these closed doors.
How can you help her with your normal sane parenting advice? You can’t.
The only advice I have for you and her is advise her to get therapy to get help to deal with her quality of life. She’ll get it.
Maybe one day she’ll rescue herself. The daughter is happy as a pig in mud. No responsibility. Push mom around.
You can’t help in this. Accept it and you’ll be at peace with limited contact you can have
You only see friend for lunch. You only talk about life outside the house. You are the only bit of normalcy for. Her.
There is nothing wrong with telling Emma to get off that couch and take a gotdanged shower because you can smell her from 5 miles away and that’s an adult and needs to smell like it!
I feel like you’re probably not the right person to approach this with your friend, because of the vast majority of the post where you compare your parenting styles and appear to attribute all your kids success in life to those choices. It’s coming across really superior, let alone to someone who is already probably sensitive about in and feeling guilt for her daughters life.
In the words of Baz Luhrmann: “Whatever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much
Or berate yourself either
Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else’s”
Ma’am, I am sorry to say this because this truly is one very tricky situation for you but this line ‘The years of not saying anything about the elephant in the room …’ has had me laughing for a while now. Hope your friend and her daughter get out of this mess soon as do you.
The quickest and most assured way to destroy a friendship is to insert yourself in their parenting. At this point, Emma’s horrible habits are solid and ingrained; you cannot change that. If Amy wanted to vent about her daughter, you’d have been the go-to person. But she hasn’t. Don’t even go there unless you’re willing to end the friendship, bc believe me…Amy will not take any criticism well, especially from someone who is supposed to have her back at all times. I would suggest you turn your concerns elsewhere, to something or someone where you can actually make a difference.