When I was younger and innocent (before all the sexual harassment, rapes, sexual assaults, discrimination, abuse, and utterly entitled intolerably misogynistic male jack*sses I have endured over the years), I used to have a mostly favorable view of men. That there are some “bad apples” out there who will do bad things, but by and large, most men are “good”: gentle, caring, respectful, and not misogynistic. I grew up in a highly educated and very progressive area, and thus was sheltered from a lot of outwardly obvious misogyny (although even in these demographics, misogyny lurks but in a more subtle way).
After my first few experiences with bad men, I thought “ok, so maybe I was innocent and naive and there are more bad men than I knew, but still, many are good”. After more experiences with bad men (and 2 abusive relationships later), I thought, “ok so perhaps MANY men are bad, but there are still some good ones out there”.
Then, two of the men who I considered to be friends and I thought were the “good” ones (gentle, respectful, kind, outwardly supported women’s rights) ended up grooming and dating underage girls. The first one was a friend I met while traveling in my early 20s; let’s call him Brian. Brian was 1-2 years older than me and seemed so kind, patient, and sweet, and if not for our deal-breaking philosophical, spiritual, and life goal differences, I would have been interested in dating him. But he wasn’t my type, I wasn’t his, and we were happily friends. I appreciated having deep conversations with him and also that he was one of the only male friends I had who didn’t try to hit on me/sleep with me. He and my friend almost dated and I was fully supportive of them as a couple but it didn’t end up happening and they went their separate ways.
Fast forward almost a decade later: I lost touch with Brian, then heard that he recently got married. His new wife is a full decade younger, age 22. According to his social media it looked as though he only knew her for a few months before they got married I was a bit surprised and thought ok, that’s an age gap, and they moved fast, but I hope they’re happy and at least they’re both adults. I teach out to Brian to congratulate him and his wife and he said that he had met her and they fell in love 7 years ago. I do the math, and realize this means she was 15 and he was 26. I remember him telling me about a girl he met and fell in love with (and supposedly did not have sex with but who actually knows) and how she was “younger” (I was imagining maybe late teens or early 20s) and how they went their separate ways. At the time he did not say she was a child. I did not know my friend was basically a pedo who groomed a child and later married her.
Another one of the guys I thought was one of the “good” ones was my ex’s younger friend. He was in his mid 20s and seemed like a sweet, respectful guy. Then he started dating a 16 year old. I thought it was wrong and told my ex (who was in his early 30s and often hung out with his friend and his teenage girlfriend) that this disturbed me, but my ex defended him, saying there was nothing wrong with it and I was just “jealous” because she was younger and beautiful. Another one of my ex’s also tried to date a 15 year old girl when he was 25 and told me (shortly before I dumped him because this was so disgusting) that he would have wanted to have sex with (aka rape) a 13-year old girl if it weren’t illegal, and that he found nothing morally wrong with it.
I know countless other stories of the “good” guys not being good at all. One of my college friends had a guy friend who seemed like a good one – he seemed kind, sweet, portrayed himself as a feminist. He ended up sexually assaulting her in her sleep after a party one night. It seems like so many men try masquerade as one of the “good” ones who women can trust and feel safe with, only to sexually assault, rape, and groom women. I’ve also overheard some of my “good” guy friends talking amongst one another saying the most misogynistic hypocritical things about women; things which they would never say in public or admit to a woman.
After all these experiences, I’m starting to have deep distrust even for guys who seem like the “good” ones. I’m feeling so disillusioned and disgusted with men and am how many of them are actually “good”, rather than just wanting to outwardly appear good in order to gain social acceptance and trust from women so they can get what they want.
Also — incase anyone asks, all of these “good” men I knew separately and are not part of the same friend group (they don’t even know each other).
Comments
I never really felt any were good. My dad was very clear that they were not😭
My experience is that most men are shit and even the ones who seem good are usually shitty in their intimate relationships with women. Not all men, but most of them.
In the same boat here. Growing up, the women in my life were very unstable, and men seemed so chill and logical in comparison. I always gravitated towards men in friendships, relationships, professional, even medical settings. I had a very positive outlook set in my mind.
Fast forward to mature adult reflection, all were selfish, clueless, completely invalidating, and emotionally stunted. A good half were totally childish, predatory, manipulative, and very abusive/dangerous. They were good at things, and people respected them, so it led me to believe that meant they were good people. Many had good hearts, but didn’t make their actions line up with their good intentions. Now I see people more objectively, and I think biology plays into men’s personas. I don’t take it personally but I do know to find more female support now.
Right now I couldn’t be paid to cater to a man like I used to. I don’t assume anything anymore, I take who people are in the moment and that’s what I take as truth.
My dad was one of the genuinely good men I have ever had in my life life. My best friends husband (who was my friend which is how they met) is also a good man. I am 58 years old with a long life of meeting and dealing with men and my list of truly good men has two names on it.
Edit:typo
Men tend to be more transactional, competitive, hierarchical, more prone to aggression/violence and less socially aware on average when compared to women.
They are on average and compared to women extremely motivated by what will get them laid. If cosplaying being emotionally aware would get them laid they would do it. If being the richest man in the world would get them laid they would do it. I can compliment them on their tunnel vision and risk taking but hands down if I had to bet a million dollars on whether a random man or woman would be kind to me genuinely I’m betting on the woman.
Note: I am talking about AVERAGES. It’s like saying women on average are shorter than men of the same nationality, social class and ethnicity. It’s true. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some women taller than men. But you can apply this same logic for the characteristics above and That’s how it is in this point in time. Will it change in the future? Who knows.
Yeah I don’t think they exist, they are all pretty shitty to be honest the older I get the more I believe this and I wish I could have told my younger self this so I didn’t associate with them so much.
I think good men exist but they are so rare that many of the ones who have the potential to be good can easily fall prey once they get too comfortable.
Every bad guy thinks he’s a good guy. It’ll take a resounding heart beat and the madness of guilt to make a man admit he committed murder and buried the victim under his floorboards.
Yup. Most of the guys I was friends with in school were or ended up being shitty people. One of them tried to SA me, his friends know that he’s inappropriate towards women but they don’t care.
I found a good hearted guy who has stuck with me through cancer with no complaint but the other day we were talking and he said hypothetically he’d still be friends with someone who slapped his wife. I think I’m still in shock.
I dislike most men. They’re really of a system meant to benefit them and once I saw it, I couldn’t unsee it. I like a handful of men.
I was able to name this for myself for the first time last year. That many, many, many many men are terrible and like 50 cent said “wish death upon me”. Growing up with an awesome dad and mostly uncles it was easy to buy into the patriarchal brainwashing that men are good (and better than women). But when you realize patriarchy teaches men to dominate, oppress and intimidate to get what they want the cracks begin to show. I don’t think men are inherently bad, I just think they buy into the programming more and while patriarchy still ask women to be kind, giving and communal it demands men are the opposite. It sets women up to be victims and men perpetrators. The silver lining for me is that it becomes easier to spot men I don’t want to be aligned with by how much work they’ve invested in dismantling patriarchal values internally. Most will deny patriarchy or talk about how bad men have it in society without naming patriarchy.
I have to disagree. My dad is sh*t. My mom’s brother is sh*t.
But I’m 29 and I’ve had 4 serious relationships and 3 out of 4 were great guys and they turned out to be great men. 2 out of that 3 are married now. 1 is still single. The one guy that I didn’t count as great was a bit controlling but he didn’t really do anything to me other than that. I just don’t like controlling.
My neighbors , that many have already heard about have been married for 20 years and that guy is stand up as hell.
Now I’ve worked with some absolutely shitty guys but I would never date them and don’t see how women end up dating them. But they do, so I can see how some women would say that men are shitty if you end up with people like them. There’s been plenty of post about so called “good” guys. And they are more like “fake” good guys that will hide their true colors like anything.
I’m really pessimestic about people and seriously beleive PEOPLE in general are 50/50, both women and men. It’s a crap shoot and some people just get the bad side of that flip all the time and it seems that EVERYONE is bad.
I think the “good” men are only good to younger women. Once women get older, not only is it easier to see their shortfalls, but the men stop putting on a show because they’re no longer interested in you.
I feel that good people are a rarity. Most people just act good to stay out of trouble or to protect their best interests.
I’ve had the opposite experience. I used to think all men were terrible, but as I got older and got better at recognizing patterns and started caring less about what people think of me, it’s gotten easier to cut shitty men out of my life. If a dude says something sexist or racist or is at all sketchy, I’m done immediately and forever. Now that I’ve cleared away so much of that noise, it’s become so much easier to see the non-shitty men out there.
Good people in general are few and far between.
I’ve experienced an equal amount of cruelty, racism, homophobia, etc from women as I have from men. But I still get plenty from men :/
I do not think most men are good, but I also don’t think most people are good. The average person lives in a bubble that is self centered. So what happens when you combine that with a sexual orientation towards the half of the population that is smaller, physically weaker, and etc.?
What happens, when these men, who are just average, are raised in a society that encourages and condones predatory behaviors towards women?
It’s the reason all women have experienced some form of sexual harassment, it’s the reason all women are wary of men late at night, at work, in public, at events, etc.
It’s too common, it’s too often, it’s TOO prevalent.
Genuinely good decent men who don’t engage in predatory behaviors, ARE RARE.
For the countless obvious predators, there are subtle predators, and then there are the friends of the predators who make jokes and excuses and downplay the impact and severity of their behaviors.
Too many.
I watched little boys that I knew when I myself was a little girl, grow into misogynistic, abusive, entitled men, laden with a rotation of addictions, always complaining that “women’s standards are too high.”
It’s heartbreaking.
The little boys who were once kind, played fairly, shared toys, took turns, turned into men who laugh at rape jokes, they themselves engage in verbal abuse, sexual abuse, make jokes about violence against women, threaten women with harm if they dare to speak about the abuse.
So what can women do?
If the good little boys turn into unhealthy men, dangerous men, abusive men? What can women do?
Opt out.
I used to have two male coworkers who I thought were great guys. They were kind, supportive and uplifting dudes. One volunteered aiding people with special needs. Then I found out they BOTH were regularly cheating on their partners that they lived with and felt literally no remorse. Since then I don’t trust any men
Every man in my family is and/or has been absolute trash humans. It sucks a lot.
I’m not sure what’s worse: them treating me and/or my kids poorly or the women folk who sweep the bad shit under the rug and act like nothing happened. I don’t know what’s worse: knowing how some of my female cousins were treated or knowing that they’re putting the male relatives on pedestals they don’t belong on. I could go on.
I don’t have the bandwidth for men so I stay away from them outside of the few from work.
The last 3 presidential elections have really diminished my faith in humanity, and men specifically.
At best, a majority of American men consider a long list of things to be more important than human rights.
Aside from this statistical evidence, I have plenty of anecdotal evidence that a lot of or most men suck.
If you want the truth (most people actually don’t):
I am having same thoughts now.Good man are rare and hard to find them!!
Men around me are just pretending to be nice..Its just I know their patterns and being cautious thats it!! I can’t avoid them so trying to b in defensive mode always.
A lot of man are good at image maintenance needed for dealing with other men – women are more upfront with their opinions. Think about those family members who are AH to their own immediate family but pretend they are respected members of the community or work. Plenty.
As someone not good looking it’s great most men don’t pay me attention since my early 20s.
I know quite a few good ones, mainly because I made some good male friends who also seem to have other good male friends. My brother is amazing but he is gay lol.
Yeah it’s really the other way around. Some good men exist, but they’re few and far between
This sounds like it was written by a man
Same story, coming from a progressive family but my entire teen I came across bad guys and men only, mostly.
Molesters, pedos, stalkers, creeps, desperate men who tried to or did harm me. But thankfully I am still doing well.
The men in my family and a very few male friends are the only good men that I have come across.
Yes 100%. Most men do carry that misogonystic core with them through life.
They’re so aggressive and hateful. So easily angry, and direct that anger at anyone they identify as ‘not like themselves’, and these ‘other’ people should always be punished. Women always fall into this category, since we’re not men.
Plus they have soo little empathy. If you’re sick, most women have empathy and believe what you tell them. Most men? “just try being healthy like I am, if I can do it, you can do it. Didn’t work? You’re just being negative then”.
And this isn’t some small percentage of men. It’s like 70% at least.
People forget that the second part of that saying goes “… SPOILS THE BUNCH.” If you keep hanging with the toxic bromies, youll become the toxic bromie.
This thread is yikes.