Posting here because I’m hoping to avoid men who probably complain about the “male loneliness epidemic” in the same breath that they say “I don’t owe you anything.”
Like many women, I go through life always taking into consideration the people around me. Family, friends, coworkers, strangers, everyone.
I walk light on my feet in my second floor apartment so I don’t bother the downstairs neighbors. I don’t play music or TV too loud. When I park my car, I make sure I’m not obstructing the sidewalk with my bumper. When I’m at the grocery store and it’s busy, I try to be quick when browsing the shelves so I don’t block it for too long. This thing is in your way while you’re working on something? Let me move that for you, it takes me two seconds. Need help doing a small task? I’m not busy, I’ll do it. Have things to carry upstairs? Give me some, I’ll lighten your load. Need a ride to a doctor’s appointment? I got you. Are you comfy on the couch but want a snack? I haven’t sat down yet, I’ll go to the kitchen and get you one. I work in customer service, and I even try to always maintain empathy for rude or annoying customers because I don’t know who they are or what they’re going through–maybe they had a bad day, maybe their mom died this morning, maybe they just got off a 12 hour shift. Basically, if there’s something I can do to help, or something I can do to make sure I’m not inconveniencing others for the sake of my own wants, I will do it. I can’t help it, it’s who I am. I like helping. I like making people’s lives easier. Most of the time, it makes me happy to do these things. Doing these things costs me very little, so why wouldn’t I do them?
But Lord, I’m getting so exhausted. I made a post in r/AmIOverreacting about how my roommate made me stand in the blazing heat while I was sick so she could read her mail at the mailbox, despite me politely asking her twice to pause and finish inside the apartment (we carpooled using her car, and had stopped at our mail center on the way back to our building). I was hurt and upset that she ignored me in favor of her mail, but I wondered if I was overreacting, hence posting in that sub. Multiple people told me to grow up and that the world doesn’t revolve around me, that me being sick and suffering in the heat wasn’t her responsibility. Maybe I’m a brat for it, but I eventually decided that they were wrong and I deleted the post. Because why the fuck should I have to suffer so she can read her mail? “The world doesn’t revolve around you” yeah but it doesn’t revolve around her, either??? It would have cost her literally nothing, like actually nothing to pause her reading and finish at home. I’m not inconveniencing her by asking her to do something she was gonna do anyway.
People love when you help them and make their lives easier. But some of y’all also get angry, apparently, when I dare to hope for the same basic, simple, easy considerations. Even my mother has scolded me for “not having any empathy” when I vented to her about a customer making me terribly, terribly uncomfortable by trapping me at the front desk and trauma dumping for an hour about SA and suicide, while I had to sit there and nod and play nice like a dancing monkey because if I don’t, I’ll lose my job.
I don’t want to be bitter and angry, but I’m just so goddamn fed up with doing my best to make everyone else’s world a better place, while at the same time being ridiculed for wanting just a little bit of kindness in return. I’m tired of being told that I should suffer so that I don’t inconvenience other people, because my suffering isn’t their problem. Your suffering isn’t my problem either, but I’d still give you water if you’re thirsty and bread if you’re hungry. What’s the fucking point of human society if we don’t do the bare fucking minimum to help each other?
But I’m tired. I’m so tired.
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This boat you find yourself in, I am there as well. Raised to always put others first, I’m 45 and realizing no one puts me first. I haven’t been thought of from anyone around me in, well, since my Mom died. I’ve closed down. But I will always put others first, it’s in my dna now. Someday, someone will appreciate us! And when that happens, we will find it was all worth it.
Be patient with yourself. Do 80/20 Do good for others, but give yourself some of that love! 80/20 seems an odd %, but sometimes, a little goes a long way. Besides, I didn’t say which side is for you or others. You decide.
Best thing I ever did was start matching people’s energies and treating them how they treat me.
Some call it petty but I view that as a way to control and change my behaviour that they aren’t happy with or benefitting from. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it. If it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander. Lived experience has shown me, I am much better at dishing things out than others are.
I still never cross my own values of how I treat people. But I am very direct, blunt and hold people accountable for how they treat me.
It’s great, no regrets.
You sound like someone who was raised to always put the feelings of one or more parents above your own. I can relate. I think the interaction you describe with your mother provides a clue…
I suggest you look into what makes healthy boundaries. That may not explain everything you’re experiencing, and I totally advocate being considerate of others, but it sounds like you might not have a good grasp of what is and is not an individual’s responsibility–again, this is a totally natural consequence of your childhood environment and not a fault. Just a blind spot that can be corrected.
Also, of course, in general, women are definitely programmed to put others’ needs ahead of their own. And many people should indeed be more considerate of others. Way more considerate.
I’m a fan of Adelyn Birch’s “Boundaries after a pathological relationship” –even if you don’t think you’ve been in a pathological relationship–but if you search this sub, you’ll find more recommendations.
You deserve kindness and consideration. Boundaries will help you recognize sooner when you’re in an environment that won’t provide that so you can move on to one that will.
I’ve been in your shoes OP many times. It sucks when the consideration you extend to everyone never seems to make its way back to you.
My advice is that when you notice people not reciprocating, take a step back, check in with yourself, and decide if you want to continue overextending yourself or if it’s time to pull back.
You also need to consider why you are doing this. Is it for approval? To be liked, to win love? Analyzing the why is so important.
I was raised to put others’ needs above my own. As I got older, I started to understand that not everyone is taught that. It’s a balance.
Yes, being able to empathize is a strength. But it’s important to know when to use it and when to hold back. Sometimes, it’s best to let someone figure things out for themselves. Or to not immediately jump in to help.
Sometimes, the first step when you see a need is to stand back and check in with how the situation is making you feel. Try to figure out where the need to help us comes from. Do you genuinely want to help, or are you trying to be liked or praised?
I went on a driving vacation once when I felt like this.
I hear you. There are a lot of selfish people and our compassion can be lost on them. Setting boundaries can seem hard if you’ve been conditioned to think of others before yourself, but boundaries are an act of love for ourselves. Sometimes that love looks like holding people accountable for their selfishness, rudeness, or in the case of the person who talked to you about graphic, upsetting experiences, did not seek your consent.
Reading each example you gave kept reminding me of my own painful memories. I often feel like I am one of only a handful of people that respect the Golden Rule. Especially at work where I go above and beyond every day. But I cant stop coworkers from making fat jokes about me. While asking me to do favors for them the same minute.
I feel you, I actually couldn’t finish this because I was getting mad for you.
My mom DID THIS SAME THING: Even my mother has scolded me for “not having any empathy”. Where was my empathy?!? She never ever had a response when I would reply with that. She would change the subject.
Your roommate sucks.
I don’t have any advice for you. I wish I did. Some people just suck and I try not to let those people near me. I care more about protecting my peace than about making other people feel comfortable when they’re assholes.
My friend recently said “I gotta stop expecting me out of people.” and she’s right and now I say it to myself a lot.
Edited to add: I also decided I’m not helping people anymore because I’m too tired. A while back I had told my neighbor I would help her with something on an unspecified day, then I got sick. Like projectile vomiting sick, so when she contacted me to see if I could do the thing I told her I was sick but I could do it in three days. She must have called me 20 times in between those three days and then when the third day came I was still sick but I had said I would do it so I dragged myself downstairs to do it. And she had already got someone else to do it. Then she said “I didn’t understand you were sick. Next time say you’re too sick.” I DID AT LEAST EVERY DAY YOU HARASSED ME. So now when she asks me I just say no because I’m never going through that again.
I relate so much, as a recovering people-pleaser here with trouble setting boundaries.
For your roommate situation, this is going to sound petty, but next time you are feeling considerate or helpful towards her, pause and remember the mailbox situation and hold back. Maybe don’t do that considerate thing for her. See what happens.
Considerate is my default as well, but if you make me stand in the sun while I’m sick for your convenience I will be extremely inconsiderate to you at all subsequent times.
I forgive myself for being generally annoyed by people who aren’t considerate by default. I am proud of myself for being inconsiderate of assholes.
Omg yes.
I don’t worry about how other people treat me. I’m always considerate of others, but I have a rule that I don’t do anything that I’m going to resent somebody for or with an expectation of a “return favor.” Nobody is going to give me gold stars for doing something, I do it because it makes me feel good about myself. If someone doesn’t treat me right, I use that information to determine what role they have in my life; that includes family. If you don’t treat me well, I’m not going to spend time with you. If you don’t help me when I need it, I won’t rely on you. Then, it’s time to find better people.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. Yes, you deserve just as much kindness and compassion you put out into the world. But please, don’t let some people’s trash behavior change you from the absolutely wonderful human being you are.
I, too, try my level best to put good things out into the world. A little consideration isn’t too much to give. But I’m absolutely for choosing to give less to people who give less to me. I’m not saying I won’t be decent, I just won’t give them the whole nine yards.
I’m the same way. The problem is most of humanity is not considerate at all. Your upstairs neighbors will never even consider stomping less enthusiastically. Random strangers love blasting their music wherever they go and feel entitled to it.
I’ll agree with others that I was raised being SCREAMED at if I ever had a thought that contradicted Mother’s. But what everyone is trying to tell you that if you enjoy doing this, continue. Yet 99.99999% of humanity will never show you an ounce of consideration. No matter how small or petty. Most people put themselves first to the point they would actively hurt you just to put themselves further ahead. We are an extremely rare breed.
Check out this little game. Ncase.me/trustThe Evolution of Trust .
It helped me think about when to be considerate and trusting and when to call enough.
And it’s no mere coincidence which archetype is portrayed as a female..
I’m a nerdy man. The male loneliness epidemic is mostly self inflicted. There’s lots of excuses or reasons, but most of it’s bullshit for not having the courage to just live their own life.
I see a lot of women here giving you great input. Please take it to heart. You don’t owe anyone your time or energy. You don’t owe anyone your discomfort.
I try to be kind and empathetic, and my partner loves me for it. I don’t let people take advantage of my kindness anymore. I don’t let people confuse my kindness for weakness. It’s an interesting balance that has taken a lot of practice.
What she did was rude. You’re just supposed to wait around while she leisurely looks through her mail? While it’s doubly important for you to stay hydrated?
Mail is something a person can look at any time. If she’s just picking it up on your way to the apartment, it’s really not a big inconvenience for her to do it at home.
People are unbelievable sometimes. I once asked someone that wanted to have a conversation with me if they could turn the volume down on the TV that they had on (I have ADHD, so it’s hard to concentrate on what someone’s saying to me when there’s loud TV or radio in the background.)
She just stared at me and asked why, and when I explained, she said, “I mean…it’s not that big of a deal, is it?”
As someone who is not a people pleaser and does have strong boundaries – I’m kind of surprised by the boundary comments here. You’re not talking about bending over backwards for people here, or expecting the same in return. Just basic consideration.
I genuinely feel like there are two kinds of people in the world – those that accept and those that reject the social contract. I like the “cart return theory” as an example of it – i.e., you can tell a lot about a person by whether or not they return their cart. People will come up with lots of excuses as to why they don’t return their cart, but ultimately, they are banking on most other people doing it. They expect to have a cart-free parking space, and carts at the grocery store door when they return. Someone that leaves garbage on the beach expects to be able to return to that beach and have it free of garbage. Someone that cuts other people off in traffic is only able to do so because traffic is otherwise flowing in an orderly way.
Personally, I DO feel like I owe other people things by virtue of participating in a collective society – civility, compassion, consideration. I feel that, barring any material expense to myself, I owe every other human being a basic level of respect, with an increasing duty of care as I gain proximity to or responsibility for them. If we all acted that way, we’d all have a much better quality of life. If we all rejected the social contract, we’d all have a much worse quality of life. Ipso facto ergo therefore, we should all be considerate to others wherever it doesn’t greatly inconvenience us to do so.
Something to tell yourself is that the benefit of your efforts are real but largely invisible. Your neighbour doesn’t come up to knock on your door because they can’t hear your loud music. You don’t get a wave in traffic for waiting to change lanes until it’s clear. In the same vein, you don’t notice other people doing this for you. If someone wants to read the same sign you’re looking at and decides to return in a minute instead of crowding or rushing you, you never know that. If some garbage you didn’t remember having fell out of your car or your pocket, and some stranger picked it up for you, that event basically didn’t happen for you, only for them. Our brains have also been honed through thousands of years of evolution to be hard-wired to notice the bad and threatening way more than the good.
So yeah, people do suck and it is really disheartening. I feel the same a lot of the time. But it’s probably not quite as bad as it feels it is, and you are making a difference – and people are making a difference for you, too – even if it’s not obvious.
Wow, I could have written that. That first paragraph hit close to home. I’ve found you don’t have to stop being considerate of other people, but rather to treat yourself with the same consideration. Would you treat a friend like your friend treated you?
If it helps, think of “your needs” as a separate person. Give her a name! Mine is Sam Black 🕶️ alter ego extraordinaire. Would I encourage Sam to be helpful and considerate? Yeah, for sure. But I wouldn’t want her to keep doing that if it meant people taking advantage of her or using that kindness against her. My girl Sam is not getting walked on, I’ve got her back.
So what’s your gal’s name and what does she need most right now? ❤️
Treat people the way they treat you
Try reading the book “The LET THEM Theory” by Mel Robbins.
I haven’t read it, but I’ve seen a lot of her postings on social media. The point of it is – you don ‘t control other people, you only control yourself. So “let them” (other people) behave as they will (towards you), and then you decide how much time/energy they’re worth.
You will never be able to control other people, and trying to do so or dictate their behavior will only make them more resistant. It’s a fool’s errand.
The theory may provide a helpful framework to think about your interactions differently. Good luck.
I have been like this my whole life. I am still learning to break these habits. A book that really shifted my thinking and set me on the path of change was The Nice Girl Syndrome by Beverly Engel. It takes a hard look at how and why we behave this way and how this behavior doesn’t bring us fulfilling relationships. There are practical ways to retrain ourselves. It doesn’t take away your kindness or respect for others. It just helps you to learn how to show yourself the same consideration and care that you show others.
As I got older, I started treating people more how they treated me. It honestly was a bit disappointing because it’s ingrained in me to be accommodating and try to be thoughtful of others. That consideration is rarely mutual, but it always feels like I’m lowering my standards to match the other person.
Some people enjoy testing how much you will suffer for them. It’s sick and twisted and a sure sign of Narc or abusive tendencies.
Determine what your boundaries are for you. What you will and won’t tolerate. Do not be tempted to go over those limits: how others react to those boundaries will tell you a lot about them as people.
Seems like you’re not 100% considerate because you don’t consider yourself . You are the only constant in every one of your situations , you’re the one whose thoughts you are alone with at night . Consider what’s best for you , when to give partially , when to give freely and when to not give it all . And also when to ask and when to demand . This is your life and you only get one , make it the best one surrounded by the best people for you .
Sit on the ground if people keep you hanging about in the blazing sun. And take that as a metaphor for everything else in life.
OP you need some food for your soul, i recommend Robin Wall Kimmerer’s books, braiding sweet grass and the service berry. Both touch on reciprocity and community, if time is of the essence start with service berry it’s her most recent book, an hour read, and shares all the same themes of braiding sweet grass. These books made me feel/think deeply and look at relationships differently.
Thank you for posting this. I was going through and saving/ deleting old picture backups and some of them were screenshots of old texts, most of them conflict between me and a family member or SO.
One was an argument with my sister who was upset because I said staying home for Christmas during Covid was the “smart choice.” She interpreted that as me calling her stupid. I tried to explain myself, she insisted on staying offended, I said the convo was over, and she said some more things because I was disregarding her feelings.
They all got Covid that trip from her, by the way.
Another was an argument with my brother because he gotten upset at me and my kids from D&D, and he said I was snark when I said if he ever thought he could handle the way we played, he was welcome back.
Just two examples.
It’s depressing. I am pretty isolated. I went through seriously dark times, and I’m still not great. I cut off a lot of relationships over this kind of thing because I couldn’t handle other people’s emotions any more, and I let must of my friendship lapse because I couldn’t be a healthy person to be around.
I stopped being able to take other people into consideration as much because I was fighting myself for my own life. I needed help, but I couldn’t get it. Heck, I still need it. But I have to help myself. No one else will.
I don’t know the answers, but I see and hear you. The price of having needs is relationships.
You sound like a very kind person and I love you for that. And I agree that you should be upset that others don’t treat you as kindly. IMHO it’s time to be kinder to yourself and become a tiny bit more “selfish.” Help others as you have been, but don’t help so much that it’s a major inconvenience to you or makes you feel resentment. It’s that resentment that I’m hearing right now (and you’re not wrong!).
Treat yourself to some of your own kindness and take care of your needs first. 🩷
Edit to add: have you considered a therapist to help you learn how to balance caring for others as well as yourself? It doesn’t have to be long-term and they know a lot!
One of my daughters is always trying to shrink out of the way and over apologizes if she thinks she inconvenienced someone. I tell her all the time that she deserves to take up as much space as everyone else. She deserves to get a good look at whatever is on the shelf that interests her at the store. She deserves to walk normally, without constantly moving out of the way, or hiding herself behind me. She deserves to take the time she needs in a fitting room-I’m buying her clothes, not anybody else so she should get things she feels beautiful in and if that takes her a little longer to try them on, so be it. She deserves to be her full self just like everyone else. I tell her all the time that she doesn’t have to apologize for just existing in the same space as someone. The world is a better place with her in it and I hope she grows up with so much confidence that it doesn’t even occur to her to make herself smaller.
And to you op, I say the same thing. You deserve to take up space. You deserve to walk in your apartment normally without worrying about your neighbors. Listen to your music, sing loudly if you want. Normal apartment noise is normal apartment noise. If helping people with small tasks brings you joy and helps you feel good, keep doing it. You don’t have to change that part of yourself while you explore boundaries and likes and dislikes. You also deserve an apology from your roommate. Whether or not you’ll actually get one is another story. But you deserve kindness, happiness, and to live a full and beautiful life. Don’t you shrink for anyone else out there.
Read a lot on the subjects of taking up space and matching energies.
Amen
I’m a people-pleaser and a caretaker, too. It took me decades to learn how to set healthy boundaries and to avoid the moochers and takers of the world. Boundaries aren’t about changing someone else’s behavior, it’s about deciding which behaviors you will and will not accept from others. Sometimes this also includes putting self-care first. If you are sick, stay home and rest, no matter how much your friend wants your company running whatever errands you were running that morning. Hell, if the errand was just to collect mail, and you needed to collect yours too, next time ask her to pick it up for you so you can continue to focus on self-care while sick.
This is not to blame you for your cup running empty, but us caretakers need to be careful. It’s too easy to run out of energy, constantly thinking of others and inconveniencing yourself at the sake of someone else’s comfort. Offering one more friend a ride to the doctors, or offering snack deliveries for the nth time to couch person that month, may be just enough to push your fuel tank to empty. Being bitter and tired and exhausted are big signs that you’re tank IS empty. So choose relaxation and self-care instead. Not all the time, but when you need to recharge. Your friend will find a ride. Your couch person can get up and get a snack if they want one. While they are in the kitchen, see if they’ll get you one too, if you want one.
Reminds me of the co-dependancy triangle I’m trying to stay out of. Sorry.
Hugs. PUT YOUR OWN MASK ON FIRST BEFORE ASSISTING OTHERS. Sometimes, the selfish way is the correct way.
It’s good to be kind and considerate but don’t set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. If someone is consistently inconsiderate of you, you don’t owe them consideration in return. There’s good people in the world but there’s also a lot of selfish people who only care about themselves. Your roommate was a jerk!