We commonly hear – on youtube, american news, social media etc – that America is one of the greatest and most free countries in the world but that’s always seemed a bit sus to me.
With the exception of the right to bear arms, I think America isn’t as free as most people think. In terms of federal, state, local laws and civil laws and what an individual citizen can do I actually think you’re probably “one” of the most policed democracies in the world.
When looking at America’s greatness, I just don’t see it. Of course, America is a stunning country with a great history but unless you have money it seems like a pretty rubbish place to live for the working / middle classes.
(From the UK)
Comments
Yes, it is.
On many attributes, the US scores poorly. It certainly isn’t the most free country in the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World).
But like practically every other country in the world, it likes to think it’s the best in the world. It helps keep the people from revolting.
Well in the US you can’t go to jail for making a skit of your dog acting like Hitler.
Like every country there are pros and cons. Is it the greatest? idk about that. But lots of the rights are absolute and other countries really don’t have that.
It’s an old way of thinking. Like back in 13 colonies. Of course with everything there’s always a catch. Most intelligent people would say that it’s not perfect but it’s home. I am Mexican and I’ve been to my parents home back in the motherland now that is where you need money to truly live. These Americans don’t know real discomfort.
Yes.
America is great. Not the greatest.
America is free. Not the freest.
Those making these comments aren’t aware of what other countries and governments exists (besides reading about them from their personally chosen sources).
And when you bring up other countries who trump the US in several, if not multiple, aspects……..theres always 1 topic that they cling to to diminish the argument.
Yes and no. Not as free as it should but definitely seems to be doing better than most. Lol some of these European countries are getting wild when it comes to surveillance and free speech.
of course it’s unfounded, it’s clearly not the case. this “we’re the greatest, home of the free land of the brave” is just propaganda, not actually the reality.
it’s not the greatest, lmfao: daily mass shootings, constant school shootings, kids in cages, concentration camps, lowering life expectancy, rising maternal death rates, tens of millions of people in poverty, mass cop brutality including cops just murdering people, people getting kidnapped off the streets by the government, trillions for the war machine while people still don’t even have healthcare, never-ending war, war crimes and crimes against humanity and mass human rights violations all over the planet, etc etc etc.
it’s not “free”: people get murdered by the cops constantly. people are being kidnapped by the government because they exercised their free speech, etc.
it’s not “brave”: it’s a fucking police state. usa-ians are so afraid of literally everything that they bring their ARs to go buy a sandwich at a fast food place, ffs.
it’s wild, truly wild, how much these decades of indoctrination into this propaganda and the deliberate and systematic underfunding of public education have ensured so many buy into the propaganda bullshit.
edit: typo
The right to bear arms is overrated anyways. The importance of bearing arms is a cultural feature that is indoctrinated into their populace from birth. No other countries care so much about guns, with the exceptions of very passionate gun hobbyists maybe.
To think that gun rights as a political issue is of equal importance as health care, cost of living, employment opportunities is just delusional
The nerve to ask this question while the president of El Salvador is visiting Trump in the White House….!!!!
As a Canadian this is my take, like it or not.Their inflated sense of greatness comes from having the biggest stick. In reality though, when compared to the great dynasties, empires, and civilizations from history America is a flash in the pan. Nuke a country twice, get away with it at that, and of course the rest of the world is gonna step back and say “Woah…ok guys you win…we don’t want any of that” The America of old was built on immigration, cooperation, and mutual benefit with other countries. Now it’s just a cesspool of conspiracy theories and a nutter of a leader who constantly keeps putting America into an isolationist ideal.
We are a slave to taxes in America. If you don’t work, you can’t do anything.
One of the greatest and one of the most free, absolutely.
The greatest and the most free? Probably not.
That said, all countries to an extent think they’re the best or have a deep sense of nationalism. Plenty of people in Japan and China think their country is the best, yet people tend to want to make it an “America thing”.
FYI, in regards of “seems like a rubbish place to live if you’re working or middle class”, I’d argue compared to most people living in the world, its definitley not the case. As a household that is right between working and middle class, my family has a pretty awesome quality of life that wouldn’t be afforded to US in most other countries. I acknowledge the privilege we have it better than over 6+ billion people in the world.
I think the last couple months have proven that emphatically.
I don’t know how a country that doesn’t allow citizens to walk around drinking a lite beer (either in the neighborhood or a park) can be considered to have the most “freedom”. Or bans alcohol use until 3 years after they are legally considered an adult
I know the point of the mantra is personal freedoms from the government, so I’m being a little facetious but still
Post WWII US was a world leader on many fronts. Economic, military, educational, pizza delivery. A lot of that was simply because nobody bombed us during that war. We wisely helped others rebuild (the Marshal Plan) giving us great markets for our rapidly growing economy. As far as freedom, well, if you were in a certain demographic you had all the rights. If not, not so much.
Now I’d say we still lead in military power, but even that is being shaken up by people who don’t know what they’re doing. Until recently, we led the world in research and eduction for medicine (though not in delivering healthcare to the individuals). Now that is also falling apart. I guess we still have Hollywood, but that seems to be struggling.
America does have significant nationalism. Which is very similar to places like Canada Russia Poland or China.
However America does have some things going for it. Your mention of “needing money” to survive in America is something most people online don’t seem to understand. Americans are stinking rich. The median American has 50k usd in disposable income a year. After taxes and basic living expenses like health care. That is about twice as much as the EU average. So most Americans don’t have that issue.
America also is the only power right now capable of projecting power across the world and is undeniably the world’s strongest military power. Right now it is the greatest of the great powers. Which is certainly a reason to be proud.
Alot of this also depends on your idea of freedom. Americans define freedom as freedom from government and our idea of equality is that of opportunity instead of outcomes. While Europe wants the government to provide their citizens from want and freedom from fear with focus on equality of outcome. Both are valid ideas of freedom and diffrent societies prefer different ones. It’s up to the individual to deicide weather they want a higher chance of being average or taking the risk to make it big
Yeah , it’s okay though. You don’t have to be the best. There doesn’t have to be the best. What we can’t have however is a worst. Keep your head up and stay vigilant
A dude in the UK was arrested for praying silently to himself on a corner, people in Europe get their doors knocked on for offending people on social media, y’all have to pay a tax if you own a tv. In America, I essentially do whatever I want, when I want. Idk I think we’re pretty great, although we have tons of room for improvement. I visited Spain and Italy and they were both nice, but I wouldn’t want to live outside of the U.S.
Yes
It is now
It’s honestly a cultural touchstone by taking a grain of truth and stretching it out into a mountain through propaganda.
It’s a nice place if you’re on the ‘in’ circles of the average middle and fit the demographic of your geography, positively fantastic for the highest classes since crimes literally do not exist to them, and certainly bottom handful by standard of the lower classes.
When faced with reality there is nothing “greatest” about the USA since the completion of the Manhattan and Apollo projects. We’re middling in the top 10s-20s for most things and we’re not even greatest about propaganda about being the greatest since places like the DPRK, CCP, and neo-USSR exist.
I think we do have the greatest population of prisoners/for-profit slave labor though so not really anything “great” to be proud of.
“Free” countries have free healthcare.
America doesn’t know what “free” means.
No, it’s not entirely unfounded, but it’s becoming more unfounded with time to some extent, but also in nuanced ways.
In the U.S., the rights and freedoms are taken for granted because we are raised with them, and so they seem natural and given.
In some countries there are strict curfews at sunset, you can spend 24 hours in jail for violating the curfew at 8 pm, or be fined for chewing gum.
Other countries require holding a license to have the internet and owning a television. In many countries there are no free speech rights, and unsavory speech- even if made in jest, can be an arrest-able offense.
In many countries two people of different religions cannot marry, and in others it’s illegal to convert to another religion.
In some countries you cannot just “move” to a different region or province, you must gain official approval.
In many countries, due process does not exist the way it does in the U.S.: you can be found guilty with no evidence.
In some countries, a misdemeanor in the U.S. might serve you a life sentence, death penalty, dismemberment of a body part, or public lashings and public corporeal punishment. Some countries might disfigure you with scars as a means to let others know of the offense you once committed.
Having spent time abroad, the U.S., with all of its problems, is much much more free than other countries and most of this revolves around a combination of the philosophies we’ve culturally integrated with due process and the right to free speech, baring arms, and press, as these rights can quickly create political violence: and political violence is something that destabilizes a country.
The U.S. strategy to use rights as modes of political violence is part of the checks and balances system, as political violence is illegal but the grounds for creating it are very easily accessible.
This means the government and governing bodies have to be more selective and thoughtful in their approach to governance. This is why we have a liberal society (I don’t mean “liberal” in the U.S. political scheme, but rather per the world).
They are definitely becoming free from allies and trading partners….
Re: Freedom
In 1790, when the Constitution was ratified, no other country was like the US, and it was the first real large-scale social experiment in (small “l,” classical) liberalism.
It has, however, become less relevant as more of the world has democratized (cf. the three global waves of democratization).
Re: Greatness
Greatness refers to magnitude, not necessarily goodness. The US is certainly “great” in terms of economic, military, and diplomatic power. We’ll see how long that lasts with our current leadership, though.
It’s not even those most free country in north America
Sometimes I think Europeans and Americans look at ‘freedom’ very differently. Americans may be free to own firearms. But are they all free from the low level anxiety that they may be involved in a mass shooting, or their children in a school shooting? I know for certain I’d rather live in a country with gun control, people just don’t need to own guns.
That is what I am told constantly by our government, but they also keep saying to make it great again. Which implies that it is not the greatest. IDK
In the United States of America slavery is legal as punishment.
The US has massively degraded for the 99% for decades (fuck Regan), so for the average person, it has been downhill for so long, it’s no longer ‘great’ for the vast majority of people, but some people keep living in the dream that the US is still great the way it was.
Internationally, the US was still seen as great by many, but trump has managed to completely ruin any shred of greatness the world thought the US had…
American has officially been added to a watchlist of countries committing human rights violations. Maybe we were great at some point, but not anymore. Despite the catchy tagline, current administration is certainly not helping the matter either.
America being the land of the free and the home of the American dream has been a fantasy for practically the whole time it has been a country.
The better question: do Americans actually believe they’re the best country in the world? Or is that something they tell everyone else, but really they know they’re nothing special?
Yes, it sucks here! I went to the gym this morning and I hit all four traffic lights on the way, what kind of shit society is that. Then on the way home I noticed a sign in the supermarket window saying that eggs were $2.99 for 18 eggs, BS ripoff if you ask me, they are just trying to suck me in! My 36 year old son called last night inviting wifey and I over this week to try his new batch of red wine, he’s a commie bastard and my friend just bought a new HONDA Hybrid that gets 40 miles per gallon of gas! The anti-American asshole! He swears that it was made in Tennessee but I don’t believe that lying socialist POS! So I chain my doors up every night, lock all the windows and sleep with my shogun by my side.
We’re also not the richest country in the world. That hasn’t been true for at least 40 years. We have the highest GDP, but revenue doesn’t equal wealth. It’s like your neighbor thinking he’s rich because his salary is $300k when he has $500k in credit card debt, and he’s struggling to pay the monthly minimum.
He’s also made the decision to reduce his salary with a reduction of his responsibilities at work while insisting his wife babysits for $2/hour on weekends for the neighbors. This is essentially what the Republicans are trying to do with another massive tax cut for billionaires while increasing taxes for the lower and middle class.
Umm yep. Source: I am a 50 year old American citizen. Born and raised here.
Many yrs ago, summer of ’01, I was an electrician and had a couple Russian coworkers. One didn’t speak English. Of course I bug them with questions about Russia as I’m a stupid American that’s never visited the country. Was suppose to once when I was in the Navy back in the early 90’s but it got shitcanned and we never went.
So one day at lunch, I ask the guy what he misses the most about Russia. Y’all, this blew my fucking mind. After a moment, he replied he missed the freedom he had in Russia. I nearly spit my food out and asked WTF was he talking about? I mean, this man was telling me stories about how the KGB took his grandpa away to never be heard from again but he misses the FREEDOM in RUSSIA?!?!
When he answered, he said that in Russia, if he wants to fish, he goes and fish. If he wants to drive a car, he gets in and goes. Here in the US, people yell at him to get off their land when trying to fish a pond and that we needed “a piece of paper” to do anything. Gotta admit, he had a point.
That said, this whole America being the land of the free is fucking bullshit. We’re literally founded upon a lie that all men are created equal. Obviously they meant only white men. We had to fucking fight a war to free men. And it certainly didn’t apply to Native Americans that they forced onto some of the most godforsaken land they could find. And I’ve not even mentioned women’s rights yet.
Right now, the only real freedoms we have is for our kids to die in a fucking school shooting and us from not being able to afford medical treatment. Those who demanded that Granny be willing to sacrifice herself during Covid so her grandkid could get a paycheck fight tooth-n-nail keep women enslaved to their biology. They demand we give special rights to something that isn’t even recognizable as a human for months that we give NO ONE ELSE! Not even our dead.
And if you’re black, better be careful. I know one guy who will not go to bed until his teen son walks in the door. My wife has to biracial sons and does her damnest to ensure none of her coworkers learn of it.
And while I am a white male, I’m also an atheist. A little fact that I make damn sure my neighbors never learn of. There’s some real horror stories from how atheists are treated here in the US. Everything from loosing custody of their kids to being assaulted. I hear in the UK, it’s weird for a person to be Christian, it’s the opposite here.
And speaking of religion, there are many places I wouldn’t take someone who’s wearing a hijab or turban.
But we have been telling ourselves we’re the BESTEST! CUNTRY!! EVAR!!! and we’re too fucking stupid to imagine it otherwise.
Being the “freest” is up to interpretation. Americans generally feel confident that pretty much whatever they say (or post on social media) is protected by the 1st amendment and won’t get them in trouble, whether it be racist, anti-government, misinformation, whatever. There are of course exceptions for when it becomes harassment and such, but typically you get sued in those cases (not jailed). In places like China (and actually a surprising number of countries) if you say anything critical of the government, it can get you swiftly thrown in jail. However, that does seem to be changing in recent months in America. As to the quality of life for working/middle class, it’s really not bad at all. People online like to complain, but Americans live pretty comfortable lives in general. Middle/working class families in most other countries live in much smaller houses with fewer amenities.
I was fully expecting you to be an American. Seeing as you’re not I can’t say anything other than; duh!
The “freest country in he world” trope is hilarious to me. In my mind freedom is a continuum that runs between personal freedom and collective freedom.
Example: Take a block of flats/apartments as a smaller example of society. If each unit is allowed to be as loud as they want all day and all night then they have more personal freedom to be loud, but that comes at the expense of their collective freedom to enjoy a peaceful existence. If one douchebag wants to blast Metallica at 4am he does it at the expense of all of his neighbours.
The US generally values personal freedom (gun rights) at the expense of society as a whole (safety from nuts with guns). Nearly every personal freedom you gain chips away at collective freedoms. If you need a licence to drive it protects road users from bad drivers, etc, etc.
So this American claim to having “the most freedom” makes zero sense, particularly when you start to look at the proportion of Americans who are incarcerated. You can also look at social rights – things like the right to choose your gender, the right to choose whether you carry a child to term, etc. Most of these issues are dictated in the US by a religion-based government rather than simply allowing individuals the right to choose for themselves.
I know I personally wouldn’t want to live under American-style “freedom”.
Obviously.
I always thought our slogan “Land of the Free” was really ironic considering we have the most prisoners of any country on the planet. We have about 5% of the world’s population, yet 25% of the world’s prison population.
Short answer: Yes.
It’s one of those things where the US was indeed the place to go and the place to be for a long time after WW2, plus the US was founded on freedom/independence/yadda yadda, making it very patriotic and proud of the values it stands for.
And it was at one time a world leader in X, Y, and Z, but now it’s basically sat on its laurels for years. Combine that with a very physical and cultural isolation from most of the world and many people in the US just don’t see or realize that the rest of the world not only caught up but passed them in the process.
It’s hard for anyone, really, to admit that they’ve fallen behind. Since you’re from the UK, consider a similar example from the English Premiers – Manchester United was once a great organization but now just rests on its laurels and lives off its brand. And you’ll find many supporters who maybe know things are kind of gone to shit but they’re too proud to admit it, so they’ll gladly go through the streets clapping their hands above their head and singing football songs for their beloved United.
It is completely unfounded and most every one here knows it at this point. It is widely understood that we are no longer great. Libs never thought we were great, MAGAs think we were once great (it is literally in their movements name) though the time and extent of greatness is very much up for debate. I would argue that America was once great but only if you were a wealthy straight white man in the 1950s and 60s but even they seem to be unable to ignore that problems we face now. America is a country in decline.
People aren’t gettin chased down by the police for their social media posts here soooo… your glass house is showing
Any country that fights to make sure its people don’t have universal healthcare is by definition not great.
America isn’t even ranked in the top 20 freest countries in the world.accordomg to the international freedom index!
One thing I like about America (and there’s many things I like about the US) is that there isn’t nationwide gangs of Pakistani men grooming and targeting specifically little white kids and should that scenario come to be, at least the Home Secretary & government officials has the courage to deport the perpetrators without being scared of being labeled as Islamophobic.
Can’t say the same about the “Great” Britain tho 🤷🏻
Bwahahahaaaa, yes.
This country was built with slave labor on stolen land. And then all the white men congratulated themselves on a job well done, taming the Wild West.
You can be shot here for flipping off a cop. You die, the media drags your name through the mud, the cop is suspended with pay until they “investigate” themselves and say he did nothing wrong, then he gets his job back.
The government can seize your property if you are one year late on your taxes. Or for any made up reason at all using the principle of “imminent domain”.
Police can pull you over and keep all of the money you have on you. It is called “civil asset forfeiture”. Again, they don’t even have to have a reason or charge you with a crime, they can just keep it if they presume it’s ill gotten gains.
Citizens here only believe in American exceptualism because they are uneducated to the point of retardation. Any person that knows about the standard of living in most other countries is awake to the fact that America has been a police state for a very long time.
A large portion of our general quality of life is founded upon exploiting other nations and peoples. So if you like the fact that we’re better because we’re essentially steal stuff (usually not directly) then it’s spot on.
I mean, y’all have to buy a license to watch tv…
Propaganda to get more immigrants to buy the white picket lie.
At one point yes. Now no.
In history there are times for empires to flourish then later disintegrate another comes into power.
Kind of what’s happening now
No
All studies say yes, they are unfounded.
America Bad
The freeest country in the world is somalia. The government can pass edicts, but they only have the power to enforce them up to 6 blocks around the capital. The rwt of the country is a lawless state.
It’s individual freedom there are laws here it just doesn’t mean people follow them it’s freedom from the good for everyone and good for yourself to follow your own path
What country is better:
?
You can’t deny that America is an extremely blessed and special place. All empires rise and fall, but we are still firmly in the American Age.
The US was the only industrialized country which was not practically destroyed by WWII and we took advantage. We overturned a lot of governments. We started a lot of wars. Now it’s happening to us as Russia has hollowed us out from the inside and taken over the republican party, and now we’re a Nazi, fascist dictatorship.
Omg yes
Short answer? Yes. Especially when you look at the quality of life, work life balance, access to affordable healthcare, housing, childbirth, childcare, education, etc. The US was rated 46th for health before Covid, and that’s just one example.
Is it a beautiful place with lots of opportunities? Sure, especially if you can successfully open and run a business drive the way our tax system is set up, it doesn’t really make sense not to. But that doesn’t mean we don’t have things to learn.
Many of us know that, and are more than willing to stay teachable. Sadly, it feels like those of us with that more humble attitude are in the minority right now.