Some might say this is not an academic issue but hear me out.
I was 24 when i started my masters, at the end of my phd, postdoc, a major project and my book I am now 36. I have a good academic job, i have more free time, i don’t have to change cities again!
I just want to enjoy this a bit longer, so I tried freezing my eggs but it did not work. It just feels really unfair but at the same time I am fully aware its my own doing/what i thought this career demanded.
Is anyone else in the same position, especially female academics?
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I’m sorry egg-freezing didn’t work – that’s really rough. I’ve been through three rounds of IVF and it does take its toll on your body and mentally, so I get it. Huge congrats on your stable job, though, that’s a huge accomplishment especially in this market!
All I can say is, if having a child is a priority for you, give it the same effort and attention you’ve given your career thus far. If you just wait and see, or postpone a little longer, you might get lucky and have everything work out for you within the next four years… but you also might not. As someone who’s gone through infertility (and is also an academic), I know how painful it can be wanting a child and not being able to have one. If you are financially able to swing it, and you want it enough, you can have a child yourself even without a partner (the post was unclear about whether you’re partnered currently and/or whether that partner has sperm!).
Academia DOES place unfair burdens on women. We have a biological clock running down its time during the same years we’re expected to be productivity machines, and these things are not compatible for most people, unless you have a spouse with a different kind of job, family support, independent wealth, etc. But there comes a point in life when, if this is what you want, just do it. Make it work. Because unfortunately as women we can’t wait forever. Wishing you luck!
I did, and now I’m getting treated for infertility (without success so far) at 37. I wish I had thought about whether I wanted kids earlier – in my milieu I was always told I could have them when I was ready. Not so! Now I’m trying to land a permanent job in this terrible market while also going through IVF (which is not a sure fire way to get a baby, contrary to popular belief). It feels extremely unfair that my male colleagues don’t have the same time pressure at this pivotal career moment
Really…phd was the time when everyone got pregnant
I’ve noticed that there are a lot of academically successful and childless women around me. Not today there aren’t also women with children, but it feels about 50/50 (but small number statistics, of course).
Is there anyone in this sub who had kids before or during a PhD? Specifically in Europe? How did you make it work? What guided your decision-making? I worry about the situation OP is describing: I’m in my early thirties and trying to decide if there’s a way to do/have both…
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It is hard to have a child while seeking tenure. The time demands are so huge. The academic women (and a large proportion of the men) who have children did not enter academic employment until their children were in elementary school.
And even then it was hard.
You cannot work 60 hour weeks and have a baby in the home.
I can relate to this. I am in my thirties working on my PhD and I do feel like lots of things have to be postponed due to my PhD journey (which is also taking longer than I had hoped). I did get married during the PhD but we postponed even thinking about having kids because I don’t want to drag out my graduation any longer by taking maternity leave. I also feel bad that due to limited financing during my PhD we have to wait with buying a house/apartment which I know my husband is dreaming of… I am kind of scared that I may end up looking at the years of my PhD as lost time, especially considering job prospects afterwards won’t be great either.
I feel you, even though I’m not exactly in your position – I completed an apprenticeship before studying, and by the time I complete my masters next year I will be 31 years old. My partner is a few years older than me, and his parents are over 70 years old already. I don’t have a good relationship with my own family (to put it mildy).
On the one hand I’m thinking about doing a phd after my masters and want to actually start making money and build my career. But this would require me to dedicate at least five more years to academics (and directly after doing my phd I probably wouldn’t want to get a child, either..)
On the other hand, I want my in-laws to get to know our child before they get old(er) and get the chance to experience and enjoy this time together.
I decided to prioritize having a family (I just found out I’m pregnant) over securing a good academic job. But I’m well aware that even having to make that decision as a woman is unfair – And no matter what decision we make in the end, it will always be “bad” for us in some way or another.
I hope your find your way!
I feel you, I was 25 when I started, 30 now going on 31. Don’t have a partner or children but honestly it is not because of PhD. I just did not find the right person, had a pattern of dating the wrong people. However, I do believe the PhD has restricted me geographically. I could have moved around more and may have met someone right for me. Also, it fucked me over financially so even though I don’t mind being a single mom, its not possible given my financial condition. I do wish I had just gotten a job any job at 25 rather than pursuing a PhD.
Our career comes with consequences. Both myself and my wife had similar length training and we both knew that a kid would have destroyed our ability to be competitive for our big kid jobs. We got lucky and due to our 15 year hustle, did land big kid jobs right after training (post doc/residency), but we were still old for starting a family.
We had 0$ in retirement by late 30s, and all I wanted to do was live a simple laid back life for a few years to get my bearings. But nope. She wanted to start a family asap in case it wouldn’t happen in a few years. I understand. So we did, despite my personal hesitation.
The kid is awesome. But damn. It’s a lot. It’s a lot of time, a lot of money, and our kid is literally perfect with respect to health. Having a kid with health issues would add an impossible amount of work. We even have family support to pick up the kid every day and keep it until we get off work, and it’s still hard. Having a kid at any other time literally would have actually eliminated my ability to work competitively for a job. I’m glad I waited. I love my kid and am happy with my decisions. But I do feel that I lost a lot of my life.
I will literally never have the ability to do the things I love to do ever again. I put my hobbies on hold for grad school and post doc, barely being able to dable for over a decade. Now I have a kid, I don’t have time for my hobbies that take hours every day (love me the MMA and weight lifting). My body is falling out shape and I don’t forsee any light at the end of this tunnel for a very long time. By that time I’ll be in my 50s, MMA won’t be an option, but maybe I can find time to lift weights again the way I want. Right now it’s maybe 30 minutes of time available on the weekend days and that’s it. And even that is hard most weeks.
Shit sucks, but that’s life. I can dwell on what I have lost, or focus on those silver linings. I’m doing work that will change the world forever. Every day is like traveling to a new place nobody has ever been before. I’m paid and trusted by the public to make the world a better place. My job is cool as shit. I have a great kid, great wife, and great life. And all I have to do is sacrifice the personal things I love doing. It’s worth it to me. But that doesn’t stop it from hurting.
I had my child before I started my PhD, she will be 10-11y when I graduate. I don’t think there is a perfect time to have children, but it can indeed get harder the older you are. And having kids doesnt have to mean you must have a certain life style, you can still enjoy it even with kids. So if family is something you truly want, I would say go for it.
I realize this isn’t for everyone, but I’ll just put it out there that there are children in the world in need of parents that would love to be adopted. Could potentially be something to consider.
You’re definitely not alone. Many female academics find themselves putting life milestones on hold due to the relentless demands of the field. It’s a tough balance, and I feel like we often don’t talk about the sacrifices enough.
My SO and I have given up on having kids.
We say, “maybe in another life we would have”
I’m also looking down the barrel of this gun… leaving academia is looking more and more likely. I just don’t think I can justify the sacrifices that it requires. It’s unfair. I wish we were more honest about how unfair it is to women in this way. I feel like we pretend that we’ve made all this progress towards gender parity but academia is still so so so exclusive towards particular groups and people.
As someone who has been pretty much exactly where you are, and ended up doing a LOT of IVF starting at 39 (had a successful pregnancy only at 42) – I’d really strongly advise you to start trying to conceive now if you want to have kids. I learned the hard way that the decline in fertility is real. When people tell you that you have until 40 or so to have kids, they don’t tell you how hard it can be to get pregnant, that miscarriages become super common, and that you’ll be pretty much the oldest mum in kindergarten and can’t choose to have a second kid. It’s totally unfair, but if I could give my younger self a single piece of advice, I would tell myself to start trying to conceive earlier. You’ll probably still have time to enjoy your freedom for a bit while you try and hopefully during pregnancy too. And being a mum brings a new kind of freedom – not self-centred but having something else to put before your work, lots of new friends etc. Good luck and I hope things work out for you!
You lived exactly how you wanted.
The Ph.D. is voluntary.
I did the opposite- I gave up on the idealized tenure track academic career to have a child and some sort of stability for my family. This career is so deeply hostile to any semblance of a “normal” family life for women, so I just wanted to empathize on that point.
Hi! Yes, can totally relate to this. I finished my doctorate in my early 30s, but prolonged the idea of kids for a few years after that in order to prioritize finding a stable job, getting married, etc.
I then had fertility issues so it took even longer to conceive. Had my first kid at 35 and am now pregnant (and final) with my second at 38.
As many have already said, prolonging life events in the name of career goals seems to be part of a female academic’s journey. We sacrifice in some areas so that other areas of our lives can be fulfilled. It’s just the nature of the beast. If you want kids, go for it and go for it soon. The demands of our jobs won’t change or slow down. You seem to be in the best position possible at the moment to take the leap.
I’m 31, graduating from PhD next week and starting a postdoc in the fall. I didn’t meet my partner until late in my PhD, so the kids question wasn’t really on my plate in an immediate, practical way for most of that time (and honestly, thank god I didn’t reproduce with any of the people I dated in my 20s). The immediate term – a two year postdoc in a new city with no local family – is probably not a great time to have child in the grand scheme of things, and I just don’t know where we’ll end up after that. I feel as though the kids issue is almost entirely out of my control. A year or so ago, that felt upsetting and unsettling, but I think I’ve made my peace with it. On the whole, I have a really good life. Doing the PhD entailed sacrifices in this area and others, but I would do it again if given the opportunity.
My sister followed approximately the same path as you described. She was 40 when her daughter was born. I am a man, married at 25. Then PhD, postdoc, etc. My son was born when I was 32.
I didn’t get my PhD until I was 32, and didn’t have my kid until I was 37. (My timing was once I had a faculty offer I could defer a year, so that was excellent chance timing in hindsight.) I guess my question that isn’t clear from your post is what’s stopping you now from trying to have a child? It’s not quite clear from your post.
Like, I’m doing the TT thing now, and at some point my philosophy was it’s never going to be ideal, but I need to try it or I’d always regret not having a kid. Of course my job would be easier if I didn’t have my daughter- a lot of things in my life would be- but I had to make some peace with how things weren’t gonna be the same after. And honestly, knowing I HAVE to leave the office at 5-6pm, and have to go home to chill out with her, are both great ways to step away and be more productive when you ARE at work.
So yeah, I probably would have had kids earlier if it wasn’t for my academic life. I probably also would have if there hadn’t been a pandemic in the middle of it, or met my husband earlier, or… a million other things. Life is full of those, but my point is at 36, you still have a lot of time to have a kid even if you would have preferred earlier.
I’ve just had 3 failed cycles of IVF. Not quite the same, but close. It’s not easy trying to juggle everything.
Are you giving up on parenthood?
While not in the same circumstances, I also feel like I postponed a lot of typical adult goals: partner, house, retirement savings. I moved from the US to South Africa at 31 to work at a remote research station. I finished my masters at 35 and PhD at 40. I was always moving somewhere else or away for field work to be able to have a partner. Or during the 4 years at the field research station where other researchers were much too young or there short term. I never felt stable enough to have a partner. For the 4 years of my PhD I never had opportunities to meet anyone else in my department, just my supervisor the postdoc and never saw the other grad students in my lab. So it was very very lonely. I did a postdoc with my PhD supervisor for a year. Then tried going back to the research station for a postdoc but it was not the same being a postdoc so I quit. Now I moved to Sweden for a new postdoc.
I never made enough after finishing my bachelors to save for retirement. At 42 I am finally saving for retirement but I still feel like it is not worth it to find a partner since I will only be here for 1.5 years more and move somewhere else.
I gave up on ever hitting most milestones when I decided to do a PhD back in the day. No partner, no kids. I don’t even plan to ever get a dog at this point: too much hassle when it comes to scheduling meetings and travel.
Certainly I consider myself successful enough as faculty, so in that respect it worked out. I certainly would not recommend it to others, although I’d also 100% do it again if I had to relive that part of my life.
I’m 36, in a good academic job, and currently working on my doctorate (should finish in 2029 I think?)
I have a toddler and one on the way. I’m taking a 6 month leave of absence from my programme for maternity leave which has been fully supported by the faculty and my advisors.
Not sure if it’s my discipline (nursing and midwifery) or the country I live in (New Zealand) but it’s common to do doctoral studies while raising kids here. My advisor did hers with young children as well.
It’s a balancing act, and I deliberately positioned myself in the academic role rather than my previous clinical role because it was more favourable for family and study.
I’m 42. Just did 3 rounds of IVF (starting at 40) which I will find out if it was successful in about 9 days.
My journey was very different in that I finished my PhD at 30, got married at 32, got divorced at 36, and met my now fiance at 38.
Many of my academic colleagues have kids, many do not. Luckily I’m in Australia so the parental leave is great, if you can get an on-going contract, the benefits of having a child are incredible (6 months paid parental leave, plus return to work bonus, plus tons of research support money once you return to work to “re-start” your career).
I don’t know if there is a right or wrong order to do things. There are huge trade-offs in either direction. But as someone currently doing ivf… it is the worst thing I’ve ever done in my life. Worse than a PhD, worse than a divorce, worse than endless covid lockdowns. If you know you definitely want your own biological kids, my advice is to consider creating and freezing embryos right now, that will buy you a bit more time.
Postponing having children 4 years after the PhD because I still do not have a permanent job.
Yes, you’re not alone.
While I know you want a break and to enjoy life – you will get more time in the future to enjoy chill time. Unfortunately for women, we do not get our fertility window back.
Not trying to rush you but I think if this is something you want, I wouldn’t put it off for too long.
I’ve postponed my entire life– first for a PhD and now working towards tenure. My adult life has felt like one long holding pattern. I’m at the point now where I’m even missing out on “later” in life milestones. I’ve never been married but I’m now watching friends and colleagues go through their second and third marriages. Life keeps passing me by while I write books and articles.