That’s pretty much it. People need to stop screaming “parental alienation” when a woman doesn’t make excuses for their child’s shitty father. Women should feel comfortable in validating their children’s feelings and experiences. Like “Yes, it does feel bad when someone promises to come to our school play and then doesn’t show up.” A big number of children who are lied to like “Daddy is just tired/ he still loves you even though he’s mean” end up being with abusive partners or being abusive themselves because of what this teaches them. I bet a lot of angry incels had a single mom who they resent because she couldn’t bear for them to realize their dad was a POS.
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I was total daddy’s girl as a child. Right up until I was 14. My father told me that because of some stuff going on at his house I was no longer allowed to come over to see him any more. And since he never came to my mother’s house to see me. That meant effectively I would never spend time with him any more. I lost all respect for him that day.
I don’t disagree with the body of your post, but I have issues with the title. The dads in these cases don’t actually love their children. Love is a verb, not a feeling. It shows through action—kindness, being reliable, making personal sacrifices that don’t cross the line to martyrdom, those kinds of things.
A child will see dad (or mom) for who they are, if not sheltered from the truth. They may even see the occasional loving action, if lucky, but they will be able to tell when a parent is too self-centered to feel real love for anyone else.
Abuse ain’t love, I will die on this hill. Neglect is abuse. Emotional neglect is emotional abuse.
My favorite line applies especially well for kids because it allows them space for critical thinking is: REAL PEOPLE DON’T MAKE YOU QUESTION YOUR PLACE IN THEIR LIFE. Even Intermittent ”love” is abuse— if the Harlow monkey experiments taught us anything.
Imagine being demonstrated that you’re just not that important to someone, while the adult you ACTUALLY trust is telling you that’s love. Yet the one thing you’re desperate for is to feel lovable. Tantalus’ style of hell. Except the kid did nothing wrong.
I ain’t ever going to tell a woman how she should raise their kids, but I can share how this behavior impacted me. My mother defended two men against me and neither of them deserved it.
My father was just a dogshit man who conned his way into marrying a younger woman who didn’t know any better. He dipped the first chance he got not longer after my first birthday. She defended him right up until I ended up getting closer with my half siblings(different mothers) who were quick to dispel the ideas I had of him. I was around 13 at the time and when I brought it up she sorta “came clean?” if that makes sense. I don’t think it helped her or I for her to play defense on him especially since she was actually parenting to the best of her ability.
Her second husband (my former stepdad) fucking hated me. “He loves you, he just shows it differently.” Is a phrase I heard a lot growing up. And much like with my father, this man did nothing to earn this kind of defense. This happened right around my early teens. I give her more slack with her second husband as he was actively in her life and she was clearly trying to keep the peace in a scary situation with an angry man and a child. She knew she couldn’t control him but if she could at least get her kid in line then we’d be more okay.
All in all, it didn’t help her, nor did it help me. With my father, there really wasn’t much of a reason to lie, he was out of the picture, called once every other year. Visited about once every five. I don’t think it did much other than preserve some image I had.
I’m now in my 30’s and she’s honest now, maybe too much sometimes, but I typically just let her have it as she played a decade plus of defense, can’t blame her for doing a bit of offense from time to time.
As for, “…end up being with abusive partners or being abusive themselves because of what this teaches them. I bet a lot of angry incels had a single mom who they resent because she couldn’t bear for them to realize their dad was a POS.”
That wasn’t my experience, I think it negatively impacted our relationship more than with others.
There has actually been a bunch of research that shows that protecting children and allowing them to believe the best about their parents helps them develop emotionally. Not lying to them or negating their feelings, but allowing them to be optimistic about the parent’s behavior and facilitating their relationship with their absent parent in any way possible.
Hearing one parent speaking negatively about the other is more psychologically damaging for young children than hearing the parent speaking negatively about the child themself.
The important things imho is for the child to understand that they didn’t do anything to cause or deserve the absence of the parent.
I needed to read this today. Thank you
I absolutely agree. Of course you tailor it to the age and circumstance but I’ve learned the lesson the hard way.
My friend was nearly beaten to death with her 1 year old daughter in the room next to her. He left them both alone and the baby was screaming for hours while she was unconscious until the cops were called by a concerned neighbor hearing the baby. She needed surgery to relieve the swelling in her brain. She still had memory problems from brain damage. This continued for years, the cycle of abuse. Besides him, she was without family and homeless. She finally escaped when the baby was 3, he harassed and stalked her for months, and then when their daughter was 4 he OD’d and died.
She never told her daughter about any of it because she didn’t want to paint her dad negatively and seem like the bitter baby mama. She just said he was an addict and they broke up over that and “other issues”.
Her daughter is now 10 and struggling, she recently said during an argument that it’s her mom’s fault her dad is dead because she abandoned him when he needed her. Angry she doesn’t get to see her bio dad’s family – they enabled his abuse and even shielded him from the police when there were warrants out for him. My friend has not let them see her daughter since she escaped his abuse. She finally had to sit her daughter down and tell her the truth. She didn’t believe her mom at first, but she showed her the scars on her head and abdomen, stitches, burn marks, wounds, etc over the years of abuse. She showed her the file of court paperwork for the restraining order and the police reports from DV. She didn’t let her read the details or anything, just enough for proof of what she went through and defending her “abandoning him”.
Her daughter bawled for days. She suddenly realized her dad wasn’t the victim and he was a bad person. They cried together. She signed them up for family therapy and they start soon together along with stepdad (who has been in their life since she was 4).
I wish nothing but the best for women/single parents in this position, it’s a nightmare.
also, letting a kid have false hope is really mean to them.
the Buddhists say that the root of all suffering lies in wanting something. And wanting or expecting something you’re never going to get is a clear formula for pain.
Same with absent grandparents; teach your child that this is how those grandparents are, and we don’t expect something more. We accept what they’re able to give us, and we don’t kid ourselves tht they’re ever going to give us something more. It’s far easier to view them as a distance great-uncle/aunt-type person instead of constantly hoping or expecting that they’ll act like the doting grandparents Jimmy next door has. (Also, then we have room to find other people who will fill parts of our lives; we won’t be constantly holding open our hearts and schedules for people who won’t come through.)
Thank you, I needed this today. I recently separated from my husband and I’m so used to chasing him. Since we’ve been apart, he’s made it to zero events. Granted it’s been just over a month, but there has been stuff including a birthday. But he did have time to include my kid’s gaming chair when he picked up what furniture he wanted. To be fair, I’m missing two events his week, but I have the flu. He just can’t check the school website to find the calendar. Sorry, this became a venting session.
My sister used to buy christmas presents for her kids ‘from daddy’. I’d advise being neutral. Don’t talk crap but also don’t invent this loving fiction. It turns you into the bad guy for leaving such a great dad.
My son noticed in August that his dad hadn’t taken him any more than his usual 2 days a month even though he wasn’t in school (and that’s always his excuse). He said “he could get me anytime he wants and he doesn’t.” I just said “I know love” and hugged him. I will not be that man’s accomplice.
My mom handled this really well by following the adage “if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything at all.” She managed to support me while never saying a cross word about him (and I knew they hated each other) until after I turned 18. She let me see for myself that he was an absolute numbskull which was very apparent to me from a very early age
Meanwhile, my dad likes to complain about everything and is clinically incapable of shutting the hell up. He had to appear in court over less than a dollar of owed child support and looooooves telling that story as an example of how victimized he was. We didn’t speak for years after I asked what was the issue with paying that small of an amount.
Kids are a lot more perceptive than we give them credit for and they remember who shows up for them. I know I’m a sample of 1, but I definitely benefited from appreciating the ones that showed up and letting the silence from others speak volumes.
The present, responsible parent sometimes does it so that they don’t face custodial issues. Disparaging the other parent can be a reason to revisit custody. This is especially important if the crappy parent is wealthy or otherwise has good access to legal resources.
I always appreciated that my mom was never mean about my father’s long list of shortcomings, but she was honest.
In my situation we have dealt with this with my stepson’s mother. He always wanted a relationship with her, and we supported him in that. But we also didn’t sugarcoat things. We didn’t go out of our way to bad mouth her, but we also didn’t make excuses for her behavior. When she did shitty things, we validated his feelings and pointed out that her behavior wasn’t ok. We were being truthful, not trying to alienate. She’s done that all on her own. He’s been able to pick up on her shitty patterns and see through her lies on his own over the years.
It’s not ok to confuse kids that shitty behavior is love. Neglect and abuse is not love. If you’re making excuses for an abuser to your kid, you’ll lose trust from your kid. Mothers are in a really hard spot about this though because they get punished with “alienation” in court even if they’re not doing anything wrong. Abusive men whose kids don’t want to see them (shockers) cry “alienation” when it’s really them who have driven their children away.
That depends, I guess…I was happy to get confirmation from my mom that my dad was in the wrong when he was neglectful or careless, but I could have lived without the info that when my parents split up, he explicitly didn’t want me, as he wanted to “be free”.
My ex stopped seeing our son when he was about six because I started refusing to bring him to his house and felt he needed to come pick him up sometimes too. They’re was a lot more crappy stuff. One thing I never did do was trash talk his dad to him. But I also did not make excuses. I put it to him in age appropriate ways when the disappointment inevitably happened.
Yes it is. This is why kids grow up believing it’s their mother’s fault why dad wasn’t around.
It pisses me off how often “parental alienation” is thrown around when reality is lots of dudes couldn’t possibly care less about their kids. They remember years later that they have a child and want to connect for some reason and are surprised their child isn’t excited and no one is throwing them a parade. Or they have a tantrum because no one is hiding the truth about the dad like i. ex. he cheated. Telling the truth about his shitty actions isn’t alienating.
And I do agree that mothers shielding their kids from dad’s bad behaviour are doing them a disservice. Lying and making excuses isn’t going to help. As you said – it teaches the kid that love is showing no effort whatsoever, that bs excuses are acceptable. It can even create resentment towards the mother. You’re not responsible for someone else’s actions.
I think this is really going to depend on how you do it. There’s validating their feelings (good) and then there’s telling them their father is bad (not good).
Kids know they are half each of their parents, talking about how bad their other parent is all the time will make them wonder if they are bad too, and that can be a self fulfilling prophecy.
They will figure it out, there’s no need to go on about why you broke up or how shitty their other parent is. Just be empathetic when things go wrong.
I would argue that people can love you even though they treat you badly. I think the important thing to note is that love isn’t enough to make up for abuse. People are complicated, a mish-mash of good and bad, a zoetrope of flickering moments in time, where people can go from 100% invested in your wellbeing to totally disinterested in your existence, and back again. We put those moments together to perceive motion, to perceive identity. I think it can be useful to recognize that there are moments when even abusers genuinely do love the people they abuse, and then acknowledge that the mere presence of love is not enough to accept being close to an abuser.
Daddy does love you, but not enough to do what is right. You are worthy of love, even Daddy can recognize that– but he isn’t acting out his love right now.
It depends on the situation, and how you do it. Making excuses and sugarcoating is definitely a poor approach. Children aren’t stupid, they know if one of the parents is neglectful and unloving. Just be honest about the situation and validate their feelings. Explain that it’s not their fault.
But entirely demonizing the failing parent will do a great damage to the kid.
Not my mother, but my grandma did this to me. Whenever I visited, I had to listen how lazy and bad my father was, and how my mother was a saint. I mean, as a kid, I KNEW already my father wasn’t perfect. Listening to her rants felt like she was only rubbing it in my face for her own satisfaction. Made me feel like I was supposed to do something about it, and that I was failing, too, because I couldn’t change him. That there was something wrong with me as well.
Years passed, and guess with whom I have a better relationship. Hint, not my grandma.
I agree. I am not willing to badmouth my child’s father. But I have tried hard to teach my kid (now 20) that love is a verb. Love is what you do and what you say. It isn’t a feeling, it’s action. So she’s able, through that lesson, to see what her father’s actions tell her. We acknowledge that he feels love for her. But we also acknowledge that he still has to show up to things.
They’re trying to re-establish a healthy relationship, and it has helped her a lot to be able to object to behavior rather than tying those behaviors with how he feels about her. Essentially, the feeling is the football field. It’s there all the time, but you still need people willing to play.
Making excuses is a lot different than telling children everything a parent has done wrong. A young child doesn’t need to know about affairs or really anything between the parents. At the same time, glossing over bad parenting is just as harmful.