I’m sorry, but it makes absolutely no sense. It never has and it never will. Power scale all you want, give Batman all the prep time in the world, it still makes for a broken universe.
Superman could solo every single one of Batman’s villains in one afternoon. It does not make sense that he lets someone like the Joker run wild, as that’s surely a national issue.
Beyond that, the tones just don’t work. Superman should be classic cosmic fun, and Batman should be street level.
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Batman has fought mutants and wizards and aliens without Superman for a majority if his existence. This is the take of someone who has never actually read a Batman comic.
On a practical level, Superman can solo most of his allies’ enemies in a day. Look at the Flash: we got Captain Cold, Trickster, Captain Boomerang, Weather Wizard. Bunch of losers compared to Superman.
That’s not the point, it’s about the story. In a real life scenario, Superman would easily crush opposition. But it’s a comic, just enjoy the ride.
Firstly, Superman is a busy guy. He can’t be everywhere at once, and works a 9-5 on top of being a hero. He could defeat Joker was easily but like Batman he also has a no kill rule. So just like whenBatman defeats him, Joker will return and come up with some nonsense again.
Ohohohoooo Internet, prepare yourself for that Banger of an unpopular opinion?!
Kryptonite makes it make sense.
Infact giving superman a weakness is the only reason that Superman storylines work at all
You ever hear of the term “suspended disbelief”?
Alfred, send them an upvote.
Comic books aren’t supposed to make sense.
They’re comic books.
And the Marvel universe makes even less sense.
You’re pretty much being that dude everyone hates watching movies with because they can’t suspend their disbelief, and have to point out everything that’s impossible…
Then accept other completely impossible stuff.
When Batman works with Superman, he uses his detective skills and money, not his muscle. Because of the reasons you say. In the good Justice League stuff, Batman coordinates all the actual superhumans.
Jokers background in chemistry means he can synthesize aresolized kryptonite, may need to work briefly with Luthor for the rock and Scarecrow for a delivery method, but he’s killed Lois Lane, he can put a plan together.
I agree. IMO this is a problem with many superhero settings. It’s like in the MCU having somebody who is able to literally perform magic, switch dimensions, alter time, conscience, etc., next to a dude who can shoot arrows. Each superhero only works in their own setting, with their own struggles that can be overcome by their own circumstances.
Mate. You’re trying to apply rational logic to a world where people fighting monumental threats to humanity do so in colourful spandex and, if they’re a woman, not even much of that.
You’re talking about a world where the most misanthropic, outcast villains have seemingly unending budgets for novelty weapons when they could have spent a fraction to produce a far more efficient way of eliminating their foes.
The same Superman you’re referring to is weak to space rock and, if that rock is pink, his sexuality flips over to gay.
Yes. It is ridiculous. All of it is. But if you care about it, you’re kind of missing the point of absurdist fantasy escapism.
I see this issue pointed out a lot amongst comic fans and I think the problem is widely acknowledged
The real explanation is that we can’t go back on the history of DC’s profitable IPs and team ups SELL. It’s a problem that exists in Marvel as well where we have heroes of different scales responsible for different “jurisdictions”. Any attempt at explaining in world it is just unsatisfactory like how they’re writing Gothem to be cursed and Batman to be destined to be at the center of it
I think the best you’re going to get is to just read writers that write Batman in self contained stories with the amount of realism you like which varies wildly
They’ve been in the same universe since the 1930s, along with 100s of other heroes and villains. Little late for them to do anything about it now.
Its a big world. Do you want to pull out a list of super villains in the entire dc multiverse
He could, sure.
But if he was kicking everyone’s asses he wouldn’t have time to do anything else.
Canonically Gotham is literally cursed, so the problems are far deeper than just Batman’s rogues’ gallery. Gotham’s infrastructure is also heavily permeated with lead, which also hinders Superman. Plus Batman doesn’t generally like nor trust others to police his turf.
Personally I enjoy the contrast between the sleek and modern Metropolis / Superman and the art deco / gritty Gotham / Batman.
Superman didn’t crash land on earth to become a god and solve everyone’s problems.
It’s incredibly stupid to have any other super hero when superman exists. He’s basically too powerful. That’s why Batman is so much cooler atleast in my opinion
Yes classic street level fun for Batman who routinely entangles with *checks*, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy and Clay Face
You’re totally the first person to notice this, OP.
Superman is fundamentally broken as a set of fictional powers. Unless another world-endingly powerful being turns up, villains can either get hold of some kryptonite (which is boring and cliche) or attack his loved ones (which is the weakness of almost every SH ever).
This isn’t a Batman vs Superman issue, it’s just a particular instance of the whole issue with Superman.
You can’t really start pulling the threads of comic book universes too hard. The whole thing quickly unravels!
Comic books don’t make sense. Why die on this hill? You find all the other aspects to make perfect sense except this one? You watch alot of “who would win in a fight?” Superhero youtube videos or something? Very odd nitpick.
>Beyond that, the tones just don’t work. Superman should be classic cosmic fun, and Batman should be street level.
Yeah, sometimes you combine two characters with different tones or personalities into a group or team….its the premise of most buddy-cop movies. Mixing tones is fine. In fact, Zach Snyder avoided mixing tones and decided to make them the same general tone, and that didn’t work out too well (IMO). Seeing two very different characters interact is interesting and exciting.
>I’m sorry, but it makes absolutely no sense.
OP, aren’t you forgetting that Batman in general is an orphan billionaire who trained under ninjas, dresses as a bat fighting crime, and his greatest nemesis is *checks notes* a clown. One of recurring villains is… Gangster looking like a penguin and a sentient plant
I think having Superman and Batman in the same universe is unrealistic, but before you get to that point, there’s shitton of other unrealistic things, that make even less sense
The original Superman wasn’t OP he was pretty average in terms of ability, he couldn’t even fly, he could only jump really far. “More powerful than a locomotive” yeah that’s a big understatement for today’s Superman, more like 1000 locomotives.
If this were the case it would make sense to have one superhero in one city and another in a different city which is what they had originally.
It makes sense to have both in the same universe, what doesn’t make sense is deploying them during the same crisis. Imagine Earth is being invaded by alien monsters and the JL deploys to stop them and Superman says.
“Wonder Woman, you take the warplanes on the left, Flash, stop that platoon of soldiers, Green Lantern, handle the mothership, Batman, deal with the five million tons nuclear breathing alien monster.” Like, Batman has nothing to do there and it takes immensely heavy plot armor for him to come on top.
that’s a very not wrong popular opinion
I disagree they shouldn’t be in the same universe, but they definitely should not be fighting the same/similar enemies. Batman has no realistic reason to be in the justice league outside of maybe being a behind the scenes tactician and financial contributer. He should not be out fighting Justice League villains.
He should be like Daredevil or the Punisher; he personally handles villains that are too “small time” for the likes of Superman: crime bosses, corrupt officials, etc. Leave the cosmic fighting to the superhumans and aliens Bruce, you’re out of your league. Give Supes a fight plan and wait for him to come back with a W lol
are fictional characters with obviously unrealistic superpowers supposed to make sense?
I remember reading somewhere the best thing Humanity could do with Superman would be force him to run on a hamster wheel attached to a generator to provide humanity with unending endless free energy. Perhaps billed an outer ring with kryptonite to prevent him escaping.
I agree that shared universes to this extent is insane
Once in a fight, Batman could call down Superman like a nuke from the sky, but Superman is still one person. He would mentally exhaust himself trying to solve every problem by himself. He’d be tearing up the atmosphere travelling at super speed everywhere there’s a problem in the whole world.
Also, there are normal personality issues involved. Does every hero want to just be Jimmy Olsen, pushing a button to summon their super strong pal to resolve their problems?
Does the world want to become complacent, relying on just Superman to solve everything? Does Superman want to be a slave to every need of the world?
A well stacked high salary sports team loses to an underdog team all the time. There’s nothing odd about it happening in comics. Superman can’t solve complicated cases by punching his way thru everything.
Counterpoint: it is a comic book story. It creates conflict, often totally artificially.
If it were “real life” Superman could also just as easily set up a world government and eliminate all competing interests on a national scale, solve world hunger and make sure tyranny never happens because the Justice League, with all its technology, personnel and access, could gather and process all people’s needs and figure out the most efficient way to fulfill them better than any regular system ever could. It could handle all Earth-based threats and superthreats and natural disasters better than anyone could and more responsibly and ethically than what would be currently conceivable in real life. The “Injustice” storyline is rather dumb for this reason because someone with Superman’s morality and capability could easily create a near utopia, as much as people like to imagine those things are impossible, they don’t really investigate the reasons as to why.
But again. It’s a story. A comic book story. It can, for totally arbitrary reasons, not work the way it would in reality (the Flash should basically never be able to lose for example). If you don’t like that, that’s fine. You just can’t suspend your disbelief for comics. It’s not all that unpopular an opinion.
Kudos on posting a truly unpopular opinion. And thank you for presenting an argument that has really made me look at the subject in a new way
I can’t say I disagree with the base premise of your argument, it doesn’t really work to have heroes of different tones in the same world.
I dunno, seems like there would definitely be a Batman if a Superman exists. I doubt the billionaire class would tolerate such an advantage.
Superman has lost to villains in Batman’s rogues’ gallery. His weakness to Kryptonite is pretty well-known and both Joker and Poison Ivy have used it against him. In one story Poison Ivy even designed a combination formula with Kryptonite and mind control pollens and took control of Superman until Batman rescued him.
They have different strengths and weaknesses, and are therefore both effective against different problems.
Completely agree. It’s wild that they compare the two
Simply not a valid opinion as what you state as the problem is also its own answer to the problem you presented.
Batman did and still does in many stories, exist in a separate world from Superman and vice versa. So you’re opinion is based on you choosing to watch/read/listen to media where this isn’t the case, and thus has zero validity.
If you think super-hero stories are just about who could beat up who then you’re missing the point.
Superman doesn’t go into Gotham to capture the Penguin for the same reason we don’t send the Marines into cities to patrol for car-jackers.
Felt the same way having xmen with marvel super heroes. Read the authority for a batman that makes sense
Supermans arch nemesis is literally a billionaire businessman and scientist, who superman has struggled to beat time and again but batman Co existing with superman is where you draw the line… Ok. Definitely an unpopular opinion
Ok I hear you, counterpoint: I want to see Batman and Superman punch supervillains together
This reminds me of a Singaporean named Batman bin Suparman.
Why doesn’t Batman just call the Justice League for help? Is he stupid?
Give it a rest. The Flash could easily govern the entire US but he sticks to Central City. Wanna know why? Cause it’s a comic. If anything, it’s cool because the heroes have different styles and are in different settings. This gives the stories more variability. Batman is more of a street level detective. And superman is an extremely powerful alien. Don’t think about power scaling it breaks everything. They are just cool stories and characters.
Guys, it was just Comics, yeah it’s all BS, it was meant to empower kids.
See, when your kiddo is playing with Batman against Superman on the living room floor because it’s so funny?
Here you go
MCU did a tour de force on making these books life like for the dad (nostalgia)and his son(YEAH that’s so cool)
I think what you lose by having them in the same setting is offset by the fun of seeing Superman and batman and whoever else together and all the possible stories of their specific settings overlapping
A universe where villains “run wild” is already stupid.
There are both busy guys who barely keep the top on one city and that usually with the help of a dozen other supporting heroes who live there.
Maybe because they’re human and he’s more hesitant to use the necessary force against them. I do agree they would be better off in separate universes though.
A well thought out concept and comics don’t always go well together. Especially in the early days. You have to remember that in the early days Batman was a pretty goofy guy too and his teamups with Superman have been happening for quite some time. It was only later in his run when he started getting more popular that writers decided to make him the brooding detective everyone knows and loves today. Another thing to remember is 90% of writers will prioritize rule of cool over anything that makes sense. And that rule churns out pretty much either everything people love or everything people hate in comics.
You just have to suspend disbelief. It’s why the flash is such a hard character to write. You want him to be super cool and powerful so you constantly show his greatest feats but if he could do all that he’d never struggle against anything ever again! So his speed is inconsistent in every single piece of media he’s in.
I’ll add that it’s dumb to have the X-men and the rest of the MCU in the same universe since it undermines their message of protecting people even though their hated.
One of the canonical attempts at a justification was that if Batman asked Superman to help with Gotham, more powerful villains would become interested in setting up their base there, because superheros tend to attract enemies of comparable power levels. I don’t know if that logic holds up to scrutiny, but it’s an argument I’ve heard.
Dude literally read a couple comics or watch a YouTube video about some lore. It’s actually reasonably nuanced. Upvoted cuz unpopular I guess, but honestly the post feels a bit obtuse
Dude, they are comic book characters. It’s not about making sense.
This is exactly why a large segment of the population absolutely avoids superhero media. It kind of makes sense, in a childish way, in comic books. When you transfer it to movies, the absolute stupidity of it all becomes apparent
I’m sorry, was the idea of a flying, nearly invincible, laser eye infused alien too unrealistic for you?
Here’s my takes:
Most Batman villains are city-level threats and barely metahuman if at all powered. Superman would risk collateral damage or straight up killing them with combat, and Superman doesn’t like killing. There’s a reason the only non-powered people Superman fights post-WWII are mad scientists, Luthor, or Intergang when they have Apokolips tech.
Joker’s psychological warfare consistently takes Superman to very dark places, and his unpredictability means he gets more creative. Even more people than usually would die if Superman took over. And plus, when Joker does go over city-level threats like the Justice League cartoon with Royal Flush, Superman does usually get involved.
Superman and Batman work in different places most of the time.
Now Wonder Woman is the REAL threat to Joker as she’s able to get more precise and willing to kill, but Joker should thank Carmine Infantino that she’s usually dealing with mythical horrors.
This post and comments are why Reddit can be fun
Give him aaaaaaall the prep time he needs…
One 30 seconds call later, he has some Kryptonite. Prep time over.
Well then maybe superman should have cleaned up Gotham…
Wasn’t this the joke Stan Lee always made about dc and why he didn’t like them.
1: Gotham is Batman’s city. He doesn’t want other heroes interfering. Of course, Superman could easily ignore that. But that leads to issue…
2: Gotham is literally supernaturally cursed to just eternally suck and drive people crazy. No amount of busting bad guys, even by Superman, is gonna fix that.
But also secret issue 3: Why do you think a universe should be uniform and lack variety? Real life goes to vast extremes of different spectrums just like this, minus the super powers. It’s like saying NYC or LA shouldn’t exist in the same universe as a tiny, middle of nowhere farming town in [Literally any country.]
Their comics have successfully done that for over 80 years, so yeah upvote for an extraordinarily unpopular opinion
As a DC fan, that’s the appeal of the Justice League. They’re all from incredibly different worlds. Superman is classic hero, Batman is street level grim city, Wonder Woman is literally related to Greek Mythology, Martian Manhunter is an entire alien and Green Lantern is a space cop.
They all have very different things going on but they can come together for the greater good, like volunteer firefighters. I vastly prefer this to what Marvel does where New York for example is overcrowded with 20 different heroes at any given time to the point where crime should be pretty much nonexistent. Everybody’s got an area so there’s a little bit for everybody depending on what you like.
I feel like people forget Batman usually has to wear exosuits, magically enhanced armor, and high tech gizmos in cross events. Batman literally fell from orbit once and was fine because his suit is that resistant to heat and force. His underwear has got more money spent on it than the economic output of Lichtenstein.
It’s in the more independent comics where it’s styled as being it’s own universe or being on the edge of the DC comics where he becomes more vulnerable.
I disagree because a world where Batman and Superman aren’t in the same universe is a world where Tim Drake (3rd Robin) and Conner Kent (1st Superboy) can’t be best friends and that’s a world I’m uninterested in reading
The reason Gotham has less severe villains is because Superman doesn’t live there. Metropolis gets attacked by godzilla, giant mind-controlling space starfish, and doomsday, while Gotham only has to deal with crime sprees that look much closer to real life crimes.
Also Batman deals in nuance. Superman doesn’t solve murders, he fights the monster smashing buildings. In Gotham Superman wouldn’t even know who did the crime. He’d be trying to figure out the Riddler’s latest riddle while people die in a warehouse on the other side of town. All superman’s villains are super obvious and the solution is always to punch them.
Bro go touch some grass.
Yea, DC has terrible pillars to their universe. A crazy billionaire with PTSD, and an invincible alien.
It’s the problem of the Angel Summoner and the BMX Bandit
https://youtu.be/2_ln2ALDT6E
Well, I’ll give you this much: you posted to the right subreddit.
Do you read Batman or Superman comics? Because this post seems like you dont. Just saying.
Batman handles organized crime. Superman handles alien species attempting to take over the planet. They work hand in hand with each other
At least Bats and Supes have villains scaled to their power level. Most of Flash’s villains are unpowered. He could run up to them while nigh invisible and KO each with a tap.
The core concept behind Superman and Batman are both logically ridiculous to begin with. Combining them doesn’t really make them any sillier, you almost couldn’t.
The classic comics were created for an audience of children, and adults who have a sense of fun and can enjoy something despite it not making much sense.
OP when the genre fiction exists. Also funny how you aren’t defending your opinion in the comments.
They were originally from two different comics. A company just insists we consider them an interlinked universe now and then completely changes that universe every decade or so in the name of profit.
It doesn’t make sense that there is death and life in the same universe ! I mean everything could die, but no the writers have life drag on as if a worm could live 🙄
I think it shows a good contrast between someone who is powerful but “principled” and thus generally avoids getting involved, versus someone who is driven and “unprincipled” who’s willing to clap criminal cheeks
I think it’s more absurd that they haven’t yet executed the Joker.
You’re saying that like it was the plan of Shuster/Siegel & Kane/Finger to have nearly 100 years of lore added onto their silly pulp creations. You have to completely ignore OUR reality of publishing, writing, and actual time itself to reach a conclusion like this. Unpopular? Downright nonsensical.
Similar to Captain Marvel existing in marvel. She can wreck everything but always gets written like she’s in some other galaxy or something.
Jesus Christ, is this how people engage with media? “My dad could beat your dad in a fight”? Who fucking cares? If you don’t understand how Batman and Superman provide meaningfully different narrative approaches to life, justice, and what it means to help people, and how those differences are served by their coexistence and friendship, then you need to pay more fucking attention to the art you interact with.
In the movie it looks riduclous .Batman rushing Superman after he swats away flash and wonderwoman,? What the fuck is he gonna do ? why is he even standing there to toe to toe with superheroes, Some dude dressed in a cape and mask,,,
I can understand if he was off doing side quests for the team, detective work, sneaking into the lair of some mobsters while superman is battling some 16 foot tall monsters .
yeah superman could probably scramble your brain with his breath if he wanted but he won’t do that because of who he is. having a god level being with his powers locked behind morality makes him interesting in my opinion.
Superman and Batman have their own issues and lives they have to deal with. Batman keeps joker in line perfectly fine, it’s not injustice it’s not like Superman is making a permanent solution on that front. It doesn’t make sense for Superman to come flying to Gotham every time something happens, he has his own shit to deal with and a 9-5 job. He cannot be Superman all the time.
I feel like this is only important to people who aren’t actually interested in getting invested in these characters and stories in the first place, because these are not explanations that require large leaps in logic.
The biggest offender is X-Men and the Marvel Universe. They fundamentally don’t play well together.
Gotham would kill Superman. Not literally of course, very few of the villains there could realistically even damage him, but the constant oppressive grime and misery of Gotham would wear him down until nothing was left. Sure he could take out all of Batmans Rogues in an afternoon. Theyll all be back out shortly. And even outside of them, the city wouldnt improve because Gotham never does. Metropolis is a city where Superman can come in save the day and be praised as a hero. Gotham is a city where Batman has to wage a constant war to stop it from getting worse.
yeah, most superhero crossovers are just a money grab and not a fully developed world
Meh superman takes on the toughest villains. Each other super hero takes on villains in their story/area/power level.
“They can be a great people, Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way.”
Superman knows that if his intervention becomes too much, human beings will become dependent on it. His purpose is to give humanity an example to follow, not solve all of its problems himself. Big Picture: Joker is a mortal man, he’ll die eventually. Or Bats will finally snap and hurl him off a building. Superman knows this, and it applies to all the other villains. World-ending threats? Asteroid strike? Well…
“This looks like a job for Superman.”
Pretty much yeah. It’s the problem with all of DC. Every member of the justice league except for Batman is a borderline or literal god. It’s so dumb that these characters exist in the same universe.
100% agree. This is even more on point back in the day when Superman’s power levels were off the chart (pre-1986), when he could time travel at will and go to other dimensions and all that.
They’re only together for commercial considerations and you can take that back all the way to the 1940s when their team-up series World’s Finest first began.
After the big 1986 Superman reboot, for a while the status quo was the two characters “kind of” tolerated each other, at best. But of course that wasn’t going to last too long.
Kane said the same thing.
Injustice says hello.
Superman met Joker’s mind screw stuff once and went full inasne. Supes fails when he cannot just punch everything.
And it sounds like you want Injustice Superman as well by what you said, so you don’t get the hero either
I’m beginning to think comic books are not realistic
Exactly. Like why have mall security guards when we have the military. The military could just drop a nuke on shoplifters and it would be a deterrent to lower crime rates.
Superman DOES kill Joker in Injustice, and it doesn’t end well… 😂
Superman is busy with his own villains, no time to fix every city in the world.
It’s incredibly stupid having Putin and Mr Rogers in the same universe
Their tones just don’t work.
You say classic comic fun and street level as if those are mutually exclusive
Counterpoint: Batman and Superman teaming up is peak.
Have you read Injustice? It’s a great read and explores how Superman can just instakill Joker
Is it like the Avengers having both Wanda and Vision on their team?
Or just having Iron Man and Captain America on the team.
It actually makes sense though. Someone on tiktok said that Bruce Wayne’s parents were dead because of all the gang leaders, crime lords and mafia bosses moved to gotham after Superman cleansed Metropolis from crimes. Also, all of these superheroes seems to act as if they were regional civil safety managers???
You are absolutely correct OP.
Problem is this is a comic not real
Life and you could say the extract same thing about any other franchise.
How is there any sort of villain in the MCU if all these powerful good guys are around all the time?
How can any of the ‘solo’ mcu movies work or build drama when you know there’s just other super hero good guys out there that can save the day at any point?
None of it makes any sense what so ever. It’s just entertainment, it’s not supposed to be that deep
The idea most people have of Superman can’t have any good stories. An invincible unbeatable unhurtable unstoppable being. No one writrs or enjoys stories with the common Understanding of Superman. Not only is he too powerful and all knowing and all doing to share a universe with Batman and Batman is relevant, he can’t do it with Lois Lane either.
The Superman that shares a world with Batman, the Superman we see in comics and TV shows struggles with city level threats, not just cosmic ones, he doesn’t see and hear and think of everything, he doesn’t blitz hardly ever, he doesn’t, he needs people, most of which are much less capable than Batman to handle things he can’t won’t or shouldn’t do.
Yeah it’s all very silly.
It’s… Fiction 😭😭😭 bro can fly to the sun but gets rekt by green rocks lol nothing makes sense!!!
I see this and raise you Superman is a punk bitch compared to the Flash.
If you actually dig into the Speed Force, literally nothing should ever be a challenge ever for all time, literally all time.
I don’t think your opinion is actually that unpopular amongst comic reads. But things making total sense isn’t really the point of super hero comics.
This is an uninformed opinion not an unpopular one. if you read a Superman comic you’ll see that it’s not that simple.