I have a friend in a wheelchair and he gets really mad when places are not handicap accessible. Even places that I think its kind of crazy.
For example he was telling me how he went to a state part and there was trails that solely consisted of two narrow boards so he could not get his wheelchair on them.
Im sorry but we are going to expect that random trails in the dense woodlands need to be handicap accessible?
We went on a day trip to a small coastal fishing town and stopped to get food at this small fish house. It was a run down shack run by an old couple.
He was furious that there was no handicap parking or a ramp to get inside.
Im like bro this is a run down shack run by elderly people. Why would they need a whole ass ramp and special parking. All of which is probably crazy expensive for them.
Obviously we need tons of places for handicap people but I think its kind of ridiculous to expect the world to cater to a very small number of people. Especially people that go out of their way to get mad.
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Woodlands maybe. Cities, no. Handicap accessibility is universal accessibility.
I would not want you as a colleague with that attitude
Your poor, poor friend
Not sure where you’re based, but in the US it’s been law for over 30 years that the fish shack has accessible parking, entrance, seating, and toilet facilities. And if you didn’t, you were required to make improvements toward that goal each year. For 15 years, it’s been fully required and no more “grandfathering” of existing places of business. People who continue to ignore this are simply being cruel. Other countries vary widely on accessibility laws, but most have them. And any business owner who turns away customers just because they don’t walk very well is a fool.
I agree with what you’re saying. I totally understand that places should be handicap accessible but it’s not possible to have it that way everywhere. It’s just an unfortunate truth and your friend has to understand that. He can always plan his trips by researching which ones are access friendly to avoid being disappointed.
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
Dollars before people, is what you said. That’s just the good old way. Can I have an amen?
Fucked.
Well, he has to live in that wheelchair and you don’t. So I would imagine that navigating the world is just a little bit more frustrating for him than it is for you. You think you’re being logical but it’s really just privilege.
Hes mad that checks notes nature isnt grown for wheelchairs…?
Urban environments make sense for it. You literally are building to bring people in. Some more rural places dont have the luxury
I remember theres a cabin on top of a mountain for like a park rnaget station that got shut diwn because it wasnt handicap accessible. So they put a wheelchair ramp on it, now all you need is to get up the like 6 mile extreme hiking trail.
I agree that the things he was frustrated about does seem odd and most state parks definitely wouldn’t have that. With that being said, perhaps he’s just outwardly expressing his frustration because he’s the one who has to live with it. I admit we take for granted how easy our lives are not being handicapped or physically disabled. As long as they’re not being an asshole, I give them some leeway. I may be biased after temporarily being disabled at one point, but my thought process was similar before then too.
Cities should be build with accessibility in mind because it litterally benefits evryone or will benefit evryone at some point in Thair life. In General, anywhere that ppl can reasonably be expected in thair general life has to be accessible to as many ppl as possible aiming for all of them.
But no. Nature shouldn’t be adapted to fit our needs soully because it’s harmful to the investment. Maybe one or two big accessible trails at a park is reasonable but we can’t and shouldn’t adapt it all.
Wheelchair user here – I tend to agree with you. Obviously, places need to be as accessible as possible but there are always limits and you kinda have to roll with it (pun intended) – It can be frustrating but getting angry serves no one. I would advise your friend to provide calm feedback, or write to appropriate management or authorities. Perhaps the National Park could work on an accessible trail or two but the idea that the whole place should be, is thoroughly impractical. I live next to a National Park in the UK and slowly but surely it’s getting better but these things take time (and a lot of money).
Edit: I’ve also found that when you communicate with kindness, people will put themselves out in remarkable ways to help. I’ve had guys lift me and my chair down into the subway in New York, or set me up with a table in a staff garden area because the restaurant had stairs. I’m not saying it happens every day but I’m always amazed by the kindness of people I encounter.
Okay, it depends on the park and how woodland it is, but it’s pretty understandable to be upset when towns and cities aren’t accessible. It’s not an issue with new buildings, because of ADA codes, but old buildings sometimes can’t be made accessible and so are grandfather’d in.
And honestly, think about how much harder everything would be if you couldn’t stand up. It would be a easy to get caught up in an emotional response even if you know that it’s a rundown shack that’s probably ancient and not up to any sort of code.
Here’s the thing about rights: you don’t get to erode them for other people without eroding your own.
Within the US, the ADA is civil rights legislation. How much ice would it cut if someone argued you shouldn’t expect to get to vote in every single election?
Op you’re right. Your friend shouldn’t expect nature itself the change for him to be able to take his wheel chair there. Not everywhere in the world is going to be accessible for everyone. fuck these bots that are trying to tell you you’re a bad friend.
I’m legally blind and visually impaired to the point where I can’t read medium to small text on a large sign, even with my glasses. Once at the doctor’s office, I was squinting and trying to read a sign that was pretty close to where I was sitting. I thought to myself how silly it would be if every place had to make signs in HUGE writing, to accommodate me, even though the majority of people can read these signs and I’m the one visually impaired.
Anyway, I agree with your post lol I think it’s wild to expect every single place to be handicap accessible, especially a run down shack in the middle of a small town. I didn’t flip out at the doctor’s office over not being able to read the stupid sign. Your friend needs some perspective as well. Yes, most large public places should accommodate disabilities to the best of their ability, but having tantrums about it when it should be understood that certain places do not have the capability to accommodate certain things is just immature to me.
In 10 years he will be wearing a robotic mech suit and he will be able to go places where you can’t with your measly flesh and blood legs.
A lot of this is cultural. America has the America with Disabilities Act which requires pretty much everywhere that’s open to the general public be handicap accessible. As a result, that’s become a cultural expectation. When I first went to Europe realized that expectation is NOT universal.
With some exceptions, I think most places should be accessible. Even a small business, it’s pretty cheap and not time consuming to get your handicap parking permit and put up the sign/paint the spot. And in terms is business expenses, a ramp is cheap. Agreed that some outdoor spaces (nature trails) aren’t going to be accessible. Some areas of National Parks are hardly accessible to non-handicapped persons. I also think there should be exceptions for historical sites. The Anne Frank house is not accessible, and you can’t make it so without destroying what makes it worth preserving. Same with Edinburg Castle. Parts of Alcatraz, Mesa Verde (Native America cliff dwellings)… just no way to make them 100% accessible without destroying them.
I used to work at a pub and some woman got mad at me because we didn’t have a disabled toilet
Bearing in mind this is a pub from 1700s, there is no room for one
How do you not understand your friend?
Cartman covered this issue quite extensively on SouthPark.
Kinda weird to think elderly people shouldn’t have to have an accessible building. They’ll probably need it before you do…
If it’s too expensive, they shouldn’t have the business anymore.
Could the planks on this trail have been made wider (e.g. with more planks)?
Does the shack have parking with enough space for two bays to be merged into a disabled parking spot? Are the stairs present safe enough to put a ramp on (thus the old couple could keep a ramp handy for any customers in wheelchairs)?
The point is not that everywhere ought to be perfect. The point is – it should be a consideration.
If everywhere made excuses and took the easy way out then nowhere would be accessible. There is always a reason why its difficult to accomodate or easier not to. Its called “dis”-ability for a reason.
If the answers to my above questions are “no” that is fine. That is why we have the term “reasonable accomodations”. You must consider, and judge based on the context if the accomodation is reasonable. If you are planning to build something then “some people are in wheelchairs” is something that you should consider if you can accomodate.
And if funding is a concern there either are or should be grants to allow this (likely dependant on where you live).
No one is expecting every place in the world to be handicap accessible, just important buildings like grocery stores, pharmacies, doctors ect. I highly doubt your friend is angry that the forest doesn’t have handicap trails, that’s just you projecting.
Hey OP, it kinda just sounds like your friend, who was experiencing a moment in which a disability they have was impacting their life, was venting their frustration to you, and you went online to talk about how ridiculous they are for having feeling and expressing them to a friend?
using “handicap” is not helping the argument tbh
It sounds like your friend was expressing upset about not being able to experience something he wanted to experience that most other people can. I don’t think the logistics are what he’s really frustrated with.
as a disabled person, hes probably just venting. obviously not everywhere is going to be accessible, and that can be frustrating whether it is logical or not.
Depends on traffic.
If you’re in a high density area where you’re going to get a wheelchair bound person come through at least once a day or a few times a week it’s one thing.
Being in east bumfuck and having to build and maintain ramps for one person every 3 years is another
If all the path needed was a few more boards to widen that crossing then that hardly seems like an unreasonable accommodation, especially when you consider that we already made nature accommodate us by carving a trail through there and laying down boards and whatever else. Pretty arbitrary to draw the line there.
And your reasoning of “why would elderly people need a ramp and special parking” is kind of hilarious. Because they’re elderly and may also have limited mobility? Good luck getting a walker up those stairs. Fair point about the expense, though. I wouldn’t blame them personally for that one, but a just and equitable society would subsidize the cost of retrofits like ramps and handicapped parking to make places accessible to everyone.
I don’t see what’s ridiculous about wanting to live in such a world, and I suspect you’d feel the same if you spent your life in a chair. Why spend your energy arguing for why the world couldn’t or shouldn’t be that way?
My friend was sued under the ADA because he didn’t have a ramp into his restaurant. It cost him upwards of several hundred thousand dollars. And the wheelchair guy pocketed close to ninety of that.
The frustration tends to build up with a wheelchair. Like I can’t maneuver in ducking doctors offices or down the street easily. It gets old quick and if I’m with a supposed friend I vent. No obviously expecting the woods to be fully accessible isn’t realistic but I’ve been to plenty of state parks that are and any business should be. Portable ramps can be bought and kept in storage if they really can’t be bothered to put in a permanent one but that itself isn’t a big deal. Ramps can be used by anyone stairs are the limiting option
When my kids were babies, I was shocked at how many secret elevators there were (for baby carriages and strollers). I live in a city that is 900 years old. I never noticed this stuff before.
So, if we only make 80% of the world accessible to handicapped people, do we only charge them 80% of the tax that we charge to everyone else?
In your example of the state park, their tax dollars are paying for that. They are either owed access or som compensation.
You sound pretty entitled, way more than your friend.
Making places accessible benefits everyone in the long run. Eg, a ramp alongside stairs makes going up with a heavy suitcase easier. Escalators are a time saver for everyone. I agree with you that expecting the wild to be made accessible is taking it too far, but I think that a rule to enforce this on private businesses would be beneficial along with financial aid so nobody could complain that it’s too much of an investment for a small gain.
>its kind of ridiculous to expect the world to cater to a very small number of people.
Eventually everyone is handicapped. It will happen to you or you’ll die before it does.
So I agree that neither of those places needed to be handicap accessible, that seems pretty logically obvious. But did your friend maybe just need to vent valid frustration about these things? Did he maybe just need his friend to listen and empathize? (I wasn’t there, maybe you did a great job of that.)
I’ve been in a wheelchair in the past and I think it’s a universally frustrating experience. Not being able to get to a place you want to access really sucks. If your friend is being logically unreasonable in the heat of the moment, maybe just be a good listener. Later, when he’s vented, he might think differently. (Or not, y’know some people are illogical and self-centered, including some disabled people because we are people after all.)
Many people won’t say that out loud, but I don’t think it’s unpopular,.
As a disabled person, I think this is more him just letting out frustration about inaccessability as a whole, not blaming it on the park trails or the old people. Might be wrong tho, idk
Downvoted for popular opinion. How do I know it’s popular? Because most places aren’t handicap accessible.
Nearly all humans live in artificial environments – places that were built rather than found. A ramp is not harder to build than stairs. Any time you see a place that isn’t handicap accessible, it was a choice. It’s not like buildings fall out of the sky with only stairs attached, and we can’t do anything about it as humans.
My husband is a transportation/traffic engineer. Every intersection/roadway/sidewalk/crosswalk he designs has to be ADA compliant. But the requirements are so stupid. For example, the elevation change within so many feet of an intersection/crosswalk can only be so much, but it’s only for 20 feet or so. And then what? The person would just be stuck? It isn’t far enough for them to actually get anywhere or even to the next intersection. They have to do some really bizarre things to comply even in locations where a person using a wheelchair would not possibly be (or even a pedestrian at all).
This is not unpopular but despicable.
Shame on you
You say it’s ridiculous to cater to a small group of individuals, but when it comes to the rich, that’s exactly what the world does. If your buddy could get really rich he could probably do something about this lack of wheelchair accessibility points.
Yeah these disabled people and wanting to live a normal life where they can safely go to a seafood stand with their friends. God how unbelievably crazy they are. /j
But seriously, 16% of the world population is significantly disabled in some way. That’s 1.3 billion people. You can decide whether or not that’s a “small percentage of people”. To me that’s a hefty hunk of people that deserve to have normal things like a fish shack accessible to them. I have so many angry things to say, but they’ll be all over the place. So all I’ll say is this:
Disability accessibility is universal accessibility. And you’re a shit friend.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/disability-and-health#:~:text=Key%20facts,earlier%20than%20those%20without%20disabilities.
He might be more upset that the planned trip has gone to a bunch of places that aren’t accessible to him. It’s not that the places themselves are inaccessible, but did he plan the trip? Or was he invited only to find out that the place he’s been invited is inaccessible. He might be taking out that frustration at the venues because he doesn’t want to snap at whoever planned the trip.