In-laws currently live with us. They are retired, one has PHD, small city people, classic middle class I would say. They support right-wing politics and voted for Trump. Wife and I live in big city, voted for Harris. I myself prefer policy over party, decency, integrity, intelligence, I don’t care about Democrats vs Republicans, I vote for those who I think can do good for our country and communities. As such, I just can’t stand Trump for all the reasons I don’t need to list here.
With recent events, like many, I lost a lot of money in retirement and investment accounts, and is extremely anxious about the future. I feel anxious, angry, and depressed. I rarely talk to them now in the house because I can’t stand the fact they contributed to the current mess by supporting a criminal and a piece of shit.
They are actually incredibly kind people and nice to us and our kids. We try to avoid politics now but in the past whenever a relevant topic surfaced, they were hard to argue with and absolutely in denial of reality – or at least what I think the truth is.
I feel resentful but also bad not treating them well as I should. Sometimes I wonder, half of the country voted for Trump and are okay with what’s going on. Are we the ones who are wrong?
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In-laws currently live with us. They are retired, one has PHD, small city people, classic middle class I would say. They support right-wing politics and voted for Trump. Wife and I live in big city, voted for Harris. I myself prefer policy over party, decency, integrity, intelligence, I don’t care about Democrats vs Republicans, I vote for those who I think can do good for our country and communities. As such, I just can’t stand Trump for all the reasons I don’t need to list here.
With recent events, like many, I lost a lot of money in retirement and investment accounts, and is extremely anxious about the future. I feel anxious, angry, and depressed. I rarely talk to them now in the house because I can’t stand the fact they contributed to the current mess by supporting a criminal and a piece of shit.
They are actually incredibly kind people and nice to us and our kids. We try to avoid politics now but in the past whenever a relevant topic surfaced, they were hard to argue with and absolutely in denial of reality – or at least what I think the truth is.
I feel resentful but also bad not treating them well as I should. Sometimes I wonder, half of the country voted for Trump and are okay with what’s going on. Are we the ones who are wrong?
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By not talking about politics. That’s the only avenue for success. Never, ever, under any circumstance, bring up politics, and if they bring it up, figure out how to reliably disengage.
I deal with this at work constantly. I’m an airline pilot, so I work in an industry that’s around 80% hard Conservative and for a company that’s more like 95% hard Conservative. I also have to spend hours upon hours a day locked in a small space with my colleague, and often get the same person for an entire month. It’s very common for the person I’m flying with to bring up something political, and the only winning move is to disengage. It’s uncomfortable, but part of life is living with discomfort sometimes.
The big difference, though, between your situation and mine is that the people I’m dealing with don’t know my political affiliation while yours do, so it’s easier for me to play the “I’m not really into politics” or the “light agreement card”.
Your best bet is to find a different avenue to discuss politics and let out your anxiousness and frustrations and focus on your family as the complete picture of the people they are rather than using their political views as the litmus test for the entirety of who they are. While many Conservatives are contemptible pieces of total shit, many of them do genuinely believe they are voting for what will be best for themselves and their inner circle.
Have you discussed your feelings with your wife?
If they are kind and nice, don’t give up family for people being brain washed.
How many pictures to you need to see of Trump laughing it up with Democratic leaders to realize its a game and the billionaires always win.
Kind family is something I don’t have and many don’t, that’s important.
and where is your wife in this – what’s her take?
Ask them about their favorite Star Trek episodes. Any topic other than politics.
I would not let them watch my kids if it were me.
Is it impossible to avoid politics? I find this kind of hard to believe based on your description. My parents are moderate liberals, a politics I find just as obnoxious as Trumpism if nothing else because I actually have to interact with it, and we just avoid talking about these things as a sort of mutual agreement. Then again I am very close to my parents and consider them close friends, so depending on the dynamic it might be harder to arrive at a peaceful place.
I had to establish explicit boundaries with my parents — if you want to hang out with me, we’re not going to discuss politics.
A predicate of being maga is buying into hate and lack of empathy. If you figure how to deal with that let us all know.
I’ve lost the entire performance portion of my 3 year stock award (company was purchased) due to all this shit obliterating our Q1 and Q2 sales – award would have vested at the end of Q3 – and the remaining retention bonus is worth about 30% less than it was two months ago, all due to tariffs. This amounts to around $300k I’ve directly lost, or about 2/3 less than what I was working for the past 2 and a half years. Fuck them.
Speaking from personal experience, I avoid all political conversations with my conservative relatives. They aren’t going to change their mind, so it isn’t worth the mental or emotional energy. Sometimes, when I feel they will be receptive to some news, I will share it in a non-partisan neutral way. But I never engage in argument. I’d rather just be non-responsive and let the conversation die to protect my own mental health.
I keep a wall up because I know they aren’t “safe” for me to be open and honest with, but I try to separate the rest of them from their brainwashed misinformed beliefs and I try to focus on our common ground.
It also definitely helps to have people to vent to and keep you tied to reality (to keep your “am I the one in the wrong?” thoughts in check).
You have a heart of gold to have them living with you and trying to be civil.
I cut off my trump supporting family (and friends) I just can’t be civil anymore, the best thing for me and my families mental health was to just cut ties. Probably permanently.
When you can’t avoid talking about politics find common ground. You probably have more in common than it seems. For instance you both probably want better education for everyone. You just disagree on how to achieve it. Explain why you believe Trump’s actions will do the opposite of that without insulting Trump himself. Then genuinely listen to what they say. Don’t engage in insults or anything that is emotional rather than logical. If you get worked up they’ve won (for lack of a better word there is no winning really). Also realize you probably don’t have a political issue but a moral one. There’s a huge difference between something like “I don’t think tax money should go to sports stadiums” vs “I’m okay with people, including people who are here legally, being shipped to prisons in El Salvador.” So don’t give yourself so much grief for being resentful it’s perfectly valid. They’re condoning some pretty awful things by supporting Trump.
Kick them out for being lazy, entitled inconsiderate bums if they don’t understand their place.
>They are actually incredibly kind people
To be very blunt – no they’re not. They might be nice and kind to you and the kids, but they’re not nice or kind people. They voted for a man with hateful policies, they support a party that is an offence to fundamental democratic decency. They are ok with racism, bigotry in all forms, violence against women, white supremacy, etc. They’re ok with the undermining of democracy and the destruction of decency in politics.
They’re not nice people.
If its your house and they live with you, I’d personally be asking them for rent given the increased financial pressure that their vote has put you under.
If its their house and you live with them, then I’d personally be moving out even if it wasn’t the financially optimal situation.
“How ’bout them Mets?”
Do they pay rent?
Otherwise it would be socialism.
Well you’re nicer than me. I haven’t spoken to my Trump voting parents in 2 weeks after we got into it over their belief that Venezuelans don’t deserve due process.
“Politics” now is LIFE. Their specific choices will adversely affect you and your kids, and even them- but they don’t care. They chose a FELON /RAPIST/INSURRECTIONIST over a well qualified woman to run our country. It says so much about their character I can’t even…
You are a saint for having them in your house as far as I’m concerned. And they should be on their knees to you with thanks and apologies imo.
If you figure it out, let me know. I am extremely isolated in MAGA land, and the members include all of my immediate family. We just try to avoid the entire subject.
They are my family and I love them, but this has definitely a significant rift. I literally just do not understand. They are your stereotypical Trumpers, hard right-wing, religious, Fox news obsessed voters. They are also loving, generous, earnest believers.
I try hard to think of it as a sociological observation. They are small-town, religiously dominated, and highly suspicious of “intellectuals”. They consider me overeducated and brainwashed because I have two associate degrees. I try hard to remember that they come from a generation and culture where women stayed the hell at home and just raised kids. My rejection of a traditional role confuses and angers them. They feel it to be a judgement and criticism of their life and choices.
It totally is.
It is exhausting.
If you absolutely have to interact with them, my advice is to get them involved in a board game that you can play together and discuss different types of strategies.
My guess is if they are MAGA they probably don’t have any hobbies or interests outside of church and politics, could be a good opportunity to begin deconstructing their beliefs.
Personally, I always just try and help them kind of from the base up. Like, get them to start realizing that they’re being lied to and that they’re watching propaganda. Get them to admit that they’re addicted by asking them to try turning off the news and social media for a week or even a day. Show them proof of things that are verifiably false. Stuff like that.
But, we’re kind of getting to the point where their views are becoming increasingly likely to cause us to live in a dictatorship. At some point, the resent is justified. Make sure you have passports for you and your kids and have a plan to flee the country if things keep heading the way they’re heading. You might have to leave them to find out the hard way that propaganda isn’t beneficial to the average person.
I mean… why not be resentful? You said it yourself, these people are costing you money.
Part of the deal with family, sometimes, is that you take care of them even when they are being a pain in the ass. But this is your house. They need to understand that you are extremely stressed over the dipshittery they so eagerly support. You have every right to be annoyed at them. As such, if they want to keep living there with you, they need to:
A.) STFU about any MAGA nonsense.
B.) Make themselves useful and not get in the way.
Outside of your specific situation, we don’t do ourselves, or them, any favors by enabling this stupid cult. Make things uncomfortable for the people who clearly have no issues making things uncomfortable for us.
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Play CNN on the tv and hopefully they will be deprogrammed. I watch FOX to get their news and sometimes it’s shocking how much baloney they spread. Scary but they make it sound believable. Squawk Box is a good show for diversity of views on the market.
Nah…be resentful for as long as you need to heal. There is a betrayal happening, and we get to feel the feelings. I would suggest that you need to talk to your wife and discuss that the parents need to increase their contributions to the household: there needs to be some consequences for all of these folks. Let’s see if they put their money where their mouth is and pitch in. I wish you good luck with this situation. This is a rough predicament, as your home is supposed to be a bastion of peace and sanctuary.
I’m on the other side of the isle, but one thing that helps me try not to make it personal, is remembering a few things:
For better or worse, we’re only give two choices come election day. Very very few people agree with 100% of everything either candidate supports or is running for, and in almost all cases, it’s a mixed bag of “who or what do I hate less”
For example, I liked Kamala’s personality much more. I liked that she was running on a platfor of stability and predictability.
I liked that she was a POC and a woman. I agree with some (not all) of the Dems social policies.
However, there were also things I strongly disliked about a Kamala candidacy.
Likewise, I disliked Trump’s personality, a lot of what he’s said and done in the past, and also disagree with some of his agenda. He’s also a wild card, disruptive to the “order of things”, and definately not a “go along to get along” type of leader. He’s also hated by most other words leaders. All of those are pretty strong negatives, and I openly acknowledge them.
However, in the end, there were things about his platform that I liked more than the negatives, and more than the alternatives positives.
I’m sure it was the same for many on both sides.
So when encountering friends and family on the other side of the isle, I just remind myself that whoever they voted for, it was a compromise. This allows me to not obsess over “How could they have voted for ___?!?!”.
Not sure you can be personally. I’ve cut off my uncle and my aunt as well as my brainwashed cousin parroting FOX talking points.
You need to find a way to get them out of your house.
>Living with MAGA family, how not to be resentful?
Being respectful does not mean you let then express shitty ideas without challenging those ideas.
All ideas are open to scrutiny. I would not tolerate mention of shitty ideas without challenging those ideas to expose that they’re either really shitty and are probably held dogmatically, and not because of good reason.
>I myself prefer policy over party, decency, integrity, intelligence, I don’t care about Democrats vs Republicans, I vote for those who I think can do good for our country and communities. As such, I just can’t stand Trump for all the reasons I don’t need to list here.
Yeah, I don’t understand how people defend the notion that politics is only about protecting and idolizing a person who wants power and money.
The actual point of politics is to build a better society. To improve the lives of the people.
I wonder how many maga agrees on that?
>Sometimes I wonder, half of the country voted for Trump and are okay with what’s going on.
The vast majority of maga operate on a very tribal or dogmatic level. For them, this literally is about protecting a person, a person who has become an authority figure for their tribe. That person comes first for these people, he comes first over anything he does or has done.
Religions teach people to put tribe over facts and evidence. This is what happens when societies make it a taboo to challenge religious ideas and religious beliefs.
I bet those folks are highly religious or came from highly religious families.
I could absolutely not live with them. Actually, them voting for Trump would have ended that living arrangement for me. They wouldn’t have been welcome any longer. I would feel like I was walking on eggshells and being a fake version of myself with them. I wouldn’t want to live like that.
>I lost a lot of money in retirement and investment accounts
Assuming you didn’t sell off any of your assets, you didn’t actually ‘lose’ that money. You have the same number of shares in your 401k or Roth IRA or what ever. (they are in fact worth less, so yeah you’re seeing your account balance go down) So, now when you have your paycheck contributions still going into your 401k you’re actually buying more shares, it’s like getting stock on sale. When the market bounces back, and it will, it’s never not bounced back, you’ll be in a better spot. Assuming you’re not retiring tomorrow you’re going to be completely fine.
As someone who does not have to deal with this in their family and who works for a relatively liberal organization, I don’t have to have hard conversations on a regular basis, but I can’t help but feel that by avoiding the conversations, you are letting your family members think that you’re OK with their behavior. People need to understand that voting for him was not OK. How can we change anything if no one is discussing this with the people that they love? Don’t your in-laws deserve to know how you feel?
>kids
How can you have your kids be exposed to such hateful ideas?
Silence is complicity.
I’ve been wondering the same thing, am I in the wrong to be mad about what’s happening?
No. These people are literally, and I mean literally, in a cult. They have been manipulated under mind control. It’s hard to fight that. I hope they can be deprogrammed sooner than later.
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/cult-trump-leading-cult-expert-explains-how-president-uses-mind-control
You are a better person than I am that’s for sure. There’s absolutely no way I would let someone live in my home knowing that they voted for the candidate that is actively trying to hurt as many people as his policies can reach. This whole pumping and dumping the entire US economy is a fucked up move that should have conservatives ripping their hair out.
Realize that resenting them is what Russia and China want from Americans.
When in reality most of the “other” is annoyed at the grocery store line too.
You should treat them like absolute shit because that’s what they deserve. They intentionally did something to harm you and your family your friends and your country.
If somebody came up and punched you in the face but then was just nice would you still treat them well afterwards? There’s absolutely no excuse for what these people have done they don’t deserve any good in their lives.
These people knowingly took actions that will harm your children, don’t forget that.
Tough situation. I have cut off everyone I know who voted for this mess. The most difficult was my “best friend” of 40+ years. That was harder than my brother.
But when I think about what these people believe and the hate in their heart for groups of people they’ve never met, I feel sick. I can’t bring myself to associate with anyone who is this hateful. Who thinks women or other marginalized groups should have less rights or opportunities.
Everything trump is doing now has solidified my decision to cut them out of my life. But I understand why you can’t do that and also why you feel the way you do. I don’t have answers, just sympathy and mutual commiseration.
Editing to say: if you aren’t charging them rent or part of the bills now, I would. Make them feel the financial strain that you’re feeling. Tell them they have to pay up because recent financial burdens are strapping you and you need help paying the bills. These people won’t get it until it affects them.
I watch YouTube videos on the main TV in the house. Just watching something like the Daily Show might have an influence. It depends on how far they’ve gone into the cult.
Some Trump supporters are irredeemable and if that’s the case, then just avoiding politics as much as possible is the only thing you can do.
I would probably still complain about problems that are directly caused by Trump without mentioning Trump’s name though such as prices keep rising or I’ve lost so much money in my 401K. I’d make sure to only mention stuff that directly affects their daily life though. I don’t think they would care about legal immigrants being tossed into El Salvadoran prisons without due process because I presume that they’re not immigrants and there is almost no chance that happens to them.
Not talking about it to be polite is part of what got us here. Some people are truly completely ignorant of the chaos they have unleashed.
Just want to comment to say I get it. I love my dad so much, and I have an incredibly difficult time reconciling the fact that he voted for Trump.
Now granted, I’m in a bit of a better position where he’s always hated Trump (just somehow thought Harris was worse???) and regrets voting for him now, but I still feel angry at him. How did you not realize this would happen? Trump said he would do this shit, and he did. Any justifications just sound like empty excuses to me, and I genuinely can’t understand why anyone would have voted for him unless they were hateful or ignorant, neither of which I consider my dad to be.
I bring stuff up with him all the time and am grateful for being able to have discussions about it, but I’m still angry.
As someone who’s had to deal with friends/colleagues/family who went to the Trump cult .. I get it.
It can be really frustrating to try to talk to people who you think have gone off the deep end and are arguing what seems to be conspiracy theories.
There is a way to help them and engage in a way that lets them retain their dignity and help them back from the dark side.
You have to use cult deprogramming techniques.
I’ve seen two approaches that work. One way involves separating them from the source. One way is by getting them interested in things that they used to love that are non-political. “Hey didn’t you like to work on that car? How’s that going?” and then gradually lead them away from the cult and they get back to sanity. That sounds like it might be the winning strategy for you here if they are amenable to getting distracted.
The other involves breaking the trust model they have with the source that’s got them suckered. That takes a looooong time. Read on for that method:
First, realize that you can’t argue any facts with a person who came to their conclusions from emotions and supported by information
fed to them through angry, non-scientific media. Reason, logic, and science do not work. They will NOT be swayed by real evidence if
it conflicts with a conclusion they reached through emotional means and sometimes presenting conflicting facts to their emotionally-held position can backfire. This isn’t unique to conspiracy theorists.
One sees the same thing with cult members, those in abusive relationships, etc.
It’s often because they TRUST some non-scientific, media-hyping, angry source that’s got them suckered like Fox.
I’ve seen three theories
Some people have been pushed into conspiracy-theory mode by the fear-selling media here’s an article on it here’s a short movie on it. It’s a powerful business model because with pushed observation bias based on fear once can encourage people to start buying themselves into bankruptcy (e.g. buy our gold coins and tactical wipes! Send money to our xenophobic candidate to defend our country! …)
Lead is a known neurotoxin. Its slow but cumulative effects are to make people angry, slow witted, paranoid, and delusional. Lead was added to gas in the 1920s and only phased out thanks to the EPA starting in 1970 – 1994. The people now elderly possibly had a lifetime of breathing in lead and handling it for lawn mowing, driving, gas generators, etc.
The Book “What’s the matter with Kansas” talks about how a group of evangelicals who worship money and power were used by corporate interests to push tribalism and tie anger over social issues (abortion/schiavo/marriage) to tax cuts and deregulation. With tons of funding and campaign advisors from coal/oil/mining/gambling
sugar daddies these groups grew like a cancer that slowly overtook the GOP and pushed out the RINOs (e.g. the old guard sane GOP people) and now we see what’s happened after decades of rot and a massive influx of cash with Citizen’s United.
So debating the facts, science, or evidence is a lost cause for you in trying to convince someone who got the
re by emotional “logic”. You can’t show them any facts that conflict with their info-bubble that they won’t immediately dismiss as “biased” and then get angry themselves and shut out any further discussion.
So before you start, the important thing to remember is that your goal is to get them to move slightly away
from their source of facts, out of the spot that their emotions tells them is comfortable. That’s very tough.
You have to start with one thing that shows for a fact that a source lied to them. Ask questions first to find the sources. WHY do
you believe that? Where did you hear that?
After you find a SOURCE of their fear/anger move to asking them why they trust the source and then
show them an example that can’t be dismissed as biased that the SOURCE is untrustworthy.
Often the person will say they are quoting FOX. So here’s what I do when they have referred to FOX news as a source….
Ask them to confirm what they use for their source of news. (FOX)
Ask them how they can trust a source of news that repeatedly does things like take a video showing a person
saying one thing and edit the video to make it appear as if they said the exact OPPOSITE. Essentially taking
“No I didn’t” and cutting it to say “I did” If they are sane/rational they will respond with something like “I can’t believe they would ever do that.”
Then, and this is the key part, sit down with them and show them a video that shows how their source lied to them. For example with FOX this video:. And then focus on “this is bad right?” “Pretty clear, right”?
Points: They might comment that this is from media matters. Just say that the original video is from CSPAN and FOX, that mediamatters is NOT the SOURCE. All you/mediamatters are doing is playing them side by side. The point is to show how FOX (or their source) took someone saying one thing and reversing it to show the exact opposite. Outrage farming and how they have been played for a sucker.
The fact that the source is the CSPAN uncut tape and the fox uncut tape make a HUGE impact.
You can get through the “oh the liberal media” stuff but just saying “this is just uncut, raw video”
you can makeyour own judgment.
More examples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edCIaxlqSc0&pp=0gcJCb8Ag7Wk3p_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIVwWV8VR_s
The response I get after showing them that video has always been a mental gear shift, and if that’s all it
takes then you can start the process of discussions.
But until you break that emotional hideout they will keep listening to their shock-generating, infotainment with a trusting ear. You
have to train them to not trust that source.
4 . In some cases they come back with something like “Oh this is just Ingraham – I just watch her for fun,
not the facts, you can’t find this in the hard news section.” Good news, once they’ve said this – you can take them to the next step because you’ve now popped their info bubble. And if they do come back with that talking point, then I show them that this is not a unique case: https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-news-lie
If you’ve broken the trust model you can move on to facts. And here’s the thing – if you do break that trust model – be prepared to offer a new one right away because often after I’ve gotten them to that trust break, sometimes it has been so earth-shattering to them that they go off the deep end as they grasp for something else for a new “trusted” source of information. So be prepared right away to offer a new source that’s a gentle way to come back to reality.
TLDR; Want to persuade someone in the Trump Cult? (1) Ask them where they heard that. (2) Ask them why they believe that source. (3) Show them that source lies to people and break that trust model. (4) Repeat until they have a crisis of confidence in that source. (5) DON’T LEAVE THEM GRASPING FOR THE NEXT INTERNET SCAMMER. Give them a solid, logical, and reliable place to re-ground otherwise they can hurt themselves or others.
Addendum: Veritas
I’ve not had to debate someone quoting project Veritas as a source (thankfully). The key is finding an example of how they were lied to. Here are some links that might help.
(0) https://www.mediamatters.org/james-okeefe/updated-lies-james-okeefe
(1) Uncut video of project Veritas vs what Veritas released showing they framed a guy trying to stop child smuggling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0B0wxt3XYc . Veritas claimed the opposite and literally destroyed the guy’s career by lying about him nonstop. later Veritas lost a defamanation lawsuit
(2) Uncut vs released video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKx-Yvz3iJ8 where the UNEDITED video shows a worker tried to help someone get housing not fake voting records, even though that’s what Veritas claimed.