I have a corporate job which I enjoy and earn a bit higher than UK average, but nothing spectacular and I don’t expect my partner to have to match/earn more than my salary. I used to think I was picking workaholic-types (not consciously, just seemed to keep happening), but it seems even the guys who are career-chill when I meet them, seem to develop really strong career drives while we are dating? Is this an age thing (I’m in my 30s and date men in their 30s)?
Edit: Just a note to say thank you to all of you for your varied, thought provoking and interesting perspectives. I appreciate you taking the time to respond!
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I have a corporate job which I enjoy and earn a bit higher than UK average, but nothing spectacular and I don’t expect my partner to have to match/earn more than my salary. I used to think I was picking workaholic-types (not consciously, just seemed to keep happening), but it seems even the guys who are career-chill when I meet them, seem to develop really strong career drives while we are dating? Is this an age thing (I’m in my 30s and date men in their 30s)?
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Age is a factor, you could also be a source of motivation for them. But chances are you are dating people from your world, and environment you don’t realize it but the people you’re unconsciously meeting are most likely from a certain circle
Either you’re doing something that’s a turn off, or… They’re grinding at work to better their future.
If you’re dating men in an equal setting to you, then they’re probably not as career-chill as you think they are.
Like most women you probably are attracted to the traits of ambitious men, even if you don’t realize that’s why they have these traits initially.
You challenge them, they get better or think they have got to point where you’re not challenging anymore so to look for new challenge. They find someone who can challenge them more than you.
If everyone you date starts behaving a certain way, the common denominator is you, OP
What does this look like in practice? Long hours?
Nothing changed for them
You might consider asking both your current bf and your ex-bfs why they chose to do what they did. If you kept it kind then chances are you’ll get the valuable feedback you’re looking for which really can’t be found here in an online space.
Probably think you’ll ditch them if they don’t earn more money
You got the good men who work hard and you still complain?
Men want to build a life/family, my ex-wife didn’t work and I worked to save for a home. She cheated, lied, took the savings and the kids.
At least the ones you’re dating are workaholic. It’s good that they’re busy 🤣. Mine are worse. They just want immediate s£x 😕🫠
I think most men want to be able to provide, on first dates where women expect men to pay and men view this as presumptuous and entitled, those feelings aren’t because we don’t want to support the people we love/care about.
I’d pay for my friend’s lunch without thinking about it, or dinner for my mom in a heartbeat. Once I, and maybe men as a whole, care about someone we’ll happily spend every penny we have. A first date is way too early to expect that kind of devotion/commitment.
Applying this to your question. Dating is a wake up call. Sure you didn’t ask for someone else to shoulder the financial burden, but men do tend to view that as a badge of honor to be able to provide.
The man’s version of baby fever maybe? I’ve talked with teachers and older men who told me when they first heard they were having a baby they immediately went and got three jobs.
“Oh shit! I need to make a home for us. BUILDANESTBUILDANESTBUILDANEST!”
I’m 32 and have become a workaholic starting my own business and working for other people. I think it’s the time to do it while we are young and fit and will pay for itself in years to come.
Spent my 20s a bit coasting around not knowing what I wanted. Had a lot of fun but need to sort some shit out now 🤣
Just looking at my personal situation. Also M30s.
I made significantly more than average and worked part time when I met my gf. Not much responsibility and just chilling through life. Now we are 2 years into the relationship and I am pushing 60 hour weeks some weeks, but generally 40+ and I intend to keep that up for the next 2 years. The sole reason being that I want to set us up for a good future before responsibilities pile on.
For example, now I want us to have a nicer house with room for kids to play comfortably. I want to make her wedding special and that she can take any job she wants when there are kids, so that she can focus her attention how she feels comfortable (she would like to continue to work in some way) and I want to set her and future kids up if something were to happen to me.
So perhaps you’re making them want to start a family together😉
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I’ve always done it for myself. My career has never been a strict 9-5 but I’m okay with that.
I work at the hospital, so that stops when you’re a doctor or nurse. Find someone with a stable life and everything will work out.
well men are expected to provide, women tend to judge a man by how well and how much he can provide for her. Are you a high maintenance woman? if so that might be it, then again if not maybe your men see you as the kind of woman they want to give the moon to knowing you would never ask. men also think about things like retirement earlier. Women again tend to expect their husbands to take care of this or do not even think about it.
So like others have said, for “your” environment they don’t appear as career driven but then personally you may not know what foundations they have been building in the background, alternatively they see a future with you and have a reason a purpose to drive/build, reminded me of this interview how a psychologist found she lost her drive when she had their first kid but her husband’s went into overdrive.
Likewise a friend has noticed since I’ve now got a son my drive has increased whilst he still has it he is questioning the “Why” as he doesn’t have a family to build for.
Men generally like to earn more than their partner since men feel pressure to be more of a provider. Also relationship tend to be more successful when this is the dynamic
20s and early 30s are for learning and fun. Mid 30s to early 40s are for making moves and positioning yourself in your career, 40s into 50s you build on that base to set yourself up for upper management until retirement.
In my 20s I was just a reckless technician, late 20s I began to plan for facility operations, mid 30s Ive calmed down and move into an assistant ops manager/tech role, and plan to take the ops position in 6 years when my boss retires. My responsibility and how engaged I am with work has increased a little bit every year.
We can’t be young and fun forever and no one takes a 25 year old guy seriously. That leaves us with 1 decade in our prime to make the moves needed.
While it is about you, it’s not really about you, it’s how good men are wired.
Any man worth a damn, when he starts dating a woman he sees a future with something activates within us and we want to step up to provide that future financially.
Also, it’s not common for women to feel fully comfortable with/ respect a man she out earns financially.
While it’s not a universal rule, it’s uncommon for a woman to truly be unbothered by it.
A lot of women will say they don’t care, but they do care, they just know if they say it they’ll be called a gold digger or shallow so it’s easier for them to pretend not to care.
And since men know that, we have to step it up when we meet somebody we can get serious with.
We need money and work pays.
Based on my own experience of working quite a bit and dating A LOT, there’s two additional considerations that may be at play here – both relating to how a relationship develops.
For the first few dates, the guys will make time for you or only set up dates for when work allows. Once you’ve met a few times, there will both be an expectation of more frequent dates, or just hanging around at each other’s places, and a sense of security on the guy’s side that they can tell you that they need to work. I was able to keep work outside the relationship(s) for even a few weeks, but once you start seeing each other 3-6 times a week, especially if sleeping over, this gets very hard.
Another phenomenon may be that they are simply downplaying how career driven they are. Particularly since you’re in the age where you may want kids, I would definitely have strived to give you an impression of who I want to (relaxed family man) rather than who I am (career driven and selfish). Of course you can’t really keep this up when theory starts being applied to practice and you have to cancel because there’s a work thing that came up.
The two biggest influences in how we select a mate are (not necessarily in this order)
In the same way that there is a lot of pressure on women to have kids, there is a lot of pressure on men to be providers. Being a provider for a woman who doesn’t work or doesn’t make much is easier because there’s not a lot of expectation necessarily on a lifestyle. Since you make a good living a lot of guys will feel pressure to make sure they provide you with the same lifestyle to which you are accustomed, whether you need them to or not. That’s going to make them work harder. It’s not your fault or theirs. It just is.
Go pick up a guy at McDonald. If they turn into a workaholic, then you have a gift. Don’t waste it.
You might be a natural complement to that type, bringing it out in men that have it more latent.
I find I bring out or attract certain types of people as well.
Think about what about you might encourage someone to want to do that. Maybe you inspire them?
YOU might not have that expectation for them, but unfortunately the majority of society still does.
Optimistically, you inspire them to do more with their lives.
Cynically, the office is their opportunity to get a break from you.
Personal opinion, but I really like my job, and working helps me forget my loneliness. Dating always involves a bit of a gamble, and it can be disappointing to commit 100% right away.
“Ambition”=/=Automatically good partner
When you say they become workaholics what do you mean? Do they all of a sudden start spending more time in the office or away from you? Or do you just notice an increase in drive?
Two things to consider, men are competitive. You might subconsciously drive them on as you could be successful or know your stuff.
If its the office thing where you get less time with them, maybe reflect on how relaxing the post work time is for both of you. Is it intense, stressful or is there too much talking? People need to chill after work and not use their brains.
Since you’re talking about multiple men you’re dating while you’re in your 30s, you are either dating multiple men at once or your relationships or situationships don’t last very long. You don’t really tell us what happens during these relationships, only that the men choose their careers over spending time with you eventually. You also didn’t tell us who decided to end the relationships.
The most common factor here seems to be you. You pick the men. You get them interested in you at first and you (partially) lose their interest after an unspecified period. Or worse, you’re driving them away. Are you the nagging, complaining, eternally dissatisfied type?
The most common explanation for this pattern is that you pick men who are only interested in using you recreationally and you expect to keep them as long term partners. That doesn’t happen, because they’re just not interested in that. Eventually, reality asserts itself and you’re left wondering why reality doesn’t conform to your delusions.
Since I haven’t seen anyone else say it, it might not be the case, but it is possible that these guys are, through association with you, finding a path to success that they hadn’t seen before.
Guys these days are bereft of guidance and encouragement. Success and betterment isn’t something they’re typically told to strive for, and, more often, they’re discouraged from it.
Your boyfriends might be getting together with you and finding out about what opportunities there are around them, thus allowing them to start putting in the work in a viable direction to make something of themselves. Paths that they hadn’t seen before because no-one bothered, cared, or wanted to show them.
They’re fucking their coworkers.
Maybe, I’ve no idea 🙂 How many men have you dated long enough to observe this change?
I think men get a lot of pressure to provide and it gets tied into self worth. Most men that I have known and I include myself in that, tend to reach a point where they realize what work is best for them at a speed they feel comfortable with and it stabilizes out by their forties.
However I jumped out of a difficult career into a difficult to career, and was supported by my wife throughout. It was not an easy time but it has strengthened our bonds as a couple. Financially it’s been tough. She is the bread winner in this context and even paid for our wedding. Most men and women I have met would find that flip in power dynamic difficult to deal with.
IMO we all make relationships on the ambitions you wish to fulfill. If you are dating men who are career driven and it sheds quality time with you as a result, try and date men where that’s less the case in their associated work or lifestyles.
I guess it begs the question what goals do you have for your own relationships and what do you want to do to achieve them?
Work is a place where people seek men out for advice and decisions. They feel needed and respected at work much more than at home.
It’s definitely an age thing. 30s is when a lot of people really hit their stride in their careers. They’re becoming/are the experts and they’re starting to see the fruit of what they’ve been working towards for years
I’m in my 30s as a guy, I’ve always found the opposite if I’m honest.
I’m an engineer, can pick and choose to do a lot of overtime for decent compensation.
I generally work every second weekend or so, prefer to have the extra money in my pocket to enjoy my expensive hobbies on the weekends I have free.
Only time I haven’t done this is when I’ve been in relationships. As I still value my own free time to fuck around with cars & bikes, but I also want to spend it with someone else.
You’re maybe seeing the men you’re with open up more in time, I know with me I prefer to play down the stress of my working life with friends & family, unless it’s someone I’m really close with.
It’s called “having a type”
I didn’t care about my career too much at 30, I was just milling along. Now at 37 I have 2 promotions and get stuck into allsorts at work and want to progress. Think it’s just a maturity thing
Everyone is giving you kind reasons and it’s almost surely one of those
From a cynical pov I would say that I would focus more on work if I was feeling insecure about my economic situation, that I don’t enjoy her company as much as I used to or that the spark went off and I find her boring
Might be that they prioritise you in the beginning and lay off their workaholic personality for a few months before resuming
I imagine corporate to any significant degree is going to foster a competitive mindset. Otherwise, money and success means a lot more to men than it does to women in a sense because that is how we’re judged as men and as romantic partners.
I do think men work harder when they’re gearing up for family and settled with someone… men peak in terms of professional productivity in their 30s
Interesting. Maybe you are less “career chill” than you think and they feel like they need to keep up? I only say that because you seem to indicate that even ones that are not driven when you meet become driven.
Maybe they’re really into you and want to provide in a way they haven’t felt driven to before.
If these men are truly putting in more hours after you meet (and it’s not a perception thing) then I’d say it’s most likely that when they started dating you they gained motivation to be more successful. That could be for a lot of reasons, but I would see it as generally positive.
My wife and I have had this same discussion, where she wants me to be home more, and for reasons that are hard to explain, at various points in our life together I have felt the need to show my love for her through working hard and making more money to save and invest.
It’s definitely a challenge though. We both freely admit that staying home and cleaning the house and cooking a nice dinner for when my wife comes home from her job is definitely sexier and more immediately beneficial to our relationship. However, we also recognize that putting in an extra shift and saving for a little getaway or our daughter’s college tuition is what we actually need.
This is a classic relationship conundrum. For many men, the way they love their family is by silently and dutifully providing for them. That doesn’t have to be a miserable experience as long as they are appreciated by their family. For driven and successful men, this is what motivates them. I’ve told my own wife many times that I Iike my job and I’m going to strive to be good at it. She can either support that and we can be happy and enjoy the benefits of that success, or she can complain and we can both be miserable about it.
My advice is if you tend to feel like you are competing with your partner’s job for their love and attention, look elsewhere.
You need therapy – quit trying to date your dad
You probably are unaware of how much emphasis YOU put on career and ambitious so the guys likely start to mirror you as the two of you get closer.
Because having an gf is expensive, houses are expensive, food is expensive, and then what I really want to spend my money on is- a nice car – also expensive!
Once you’ve successfully set up a relationship, one starts to wonder what else they can achieve and decide that their career is ready for the next step. So they start doubling down to improve.
I think for many of us, around late 30s , early 40s two things happen. First, the bloom comes off the rose as far as work being a fulfilling way to spend your time and second the math pf retirement become clear. You start to realize, the time to earn as much as you can is right now, because it’s not going to get easier
If I had a woman that would probably motivate me to want to provide more. Right now I’m doing the bare minimum for max free time.
Money is how you provide nowadays.
>I don’t expect my partner to have to match/earn more than my salary.
You don’t but your pussy does.
What’s the ratio of your spend to make? I wonder if you are bringing a level of expense that’s burdening their long term financial goals. Even if you split all the expenses it still could be a lifestyle expense net increase with you there.
‘
Women tend to do this thing where if more money is made the lifestyle immediately creeps to natch the new income.
Workaholism effected me when I didn’t want to go home…
Are you pleasant to be around?
Either you’re running in common circles with relatively high power men, and you only see their “career hunger” when they open up to you, or you make men insecure and they work harder to compensate.
Could it be that you are living a more expensive lifestyle because you are used to making more money? They could be trying to earn more to keep up with your lifestyle
They were always that career-oriented, but were prioritizing time with you early on in the relationship. Doesn’t mean they stopped caring about you etc, just that it takes time for things to find their balance.
Late to the party but dating is expensive. Single people seek jobs that can pay the bills for themselves. Then you throw dating in there but their expectations of bill paying, saving, and casual spending remains the same. So they need to earn more to offset the costs of dating. It’s easier most times to put in some overtime hours rather than tightening the belt elsewhere. But as dating goes on the overtime becomes a need. They begin seeing the overtime paycheck as their paycheck rather than their base pay. Their life style adjusts to the new weekly paycheck amount. Then it becomes a cycle where they have to keep going with it.
I feel like your 30’s in when you typically hit the decade mark in corporate and start getting the bigger roles and responsibilities so thats maybe why. More opportunities open up for you like management or supervisor roles because you have more experience versus in your 20’s where you’re getting your footing and sort of working your way up but you dont necessarily have the same responsibilities. Obviously different for everyone and dependent on the type of company you work for but I’ve generally noticed that my friends make pretty big career leaps in their 30’s
I suppose it’s possibly the old classic of insecurity. A surprising amount of men out there still get uncomfortable when the woman they’re with earns more money than them and may well push themselves to ‘resolve’ that.
Definitely not an age thing. I’m in my early 40s and I have never at any point in my life been anything close to a workaholic lol.
Semi-serious question. Was your dad a workaholic? What would you define to be your “type”?
Hi OP, maybe I can provide one (of many?) perspective from the other side. In my 30s I realized (among other things) that I operate with finite amount of energy that can be “invested” into various things. Career, side-business, family-parents, family-siblings, group of friends 1, group of friends 2, hobby 1, hobby 2, relationship/looking for relationship etc.
From my perspective (and I might be wrong), I’ve been spending quite a lot of energy looking for relationship so once I found one, I moved majority of it into relationship “box” and used leftover energy for new certification in career “box” I was postponing way too long (tbh had no motivation nor energy to pursue before) and then push higher in my career.
My hypothesis (and again I might be wrong) is that guys (even career-chill ones) found such a strong support in you and maybe your independence (nothing wrong about it, quite opposite) that they decided to invest that extra available energy into the career “box”. That being said, it’s important to point out that sensitive approach and precise balancing is necessary in these cases. Otherwise, they may take too much energy from relationship “box” and put it into career/business “box” (especially with workaholics) resulting in (understandable) loss of relationship.
Again, I might be completely wrong and there might be other reasons relevant for group of UK men you were writing about. Anyway, good luck in your search.
The vast majority of women have indicated that they expect the men they date to make as much as them, but preferably more
If you earn a high wage, the guys you date likely feel socially obligated to match or exceed your career and thus, turn into workaholics trying to keep up with you
And as much as you might say that it doesn’t matter to you, the reality is, the women in your orbit will likely have things to say about it. Not just to you, but to him.
This is a social construct that is out of your control
Women make it seem like it’s an ego thing where men can’t stand not being the breadwinner. And that is true. Some men can’t handle it
But it’s more so the pressure women put on other women to “not date down” that has created his scenario
I used to be a workaholic until I had a co-worker of mine that always stayed late after hours die of a heart attack at 62 years old. The cleaning crew found him around 8PM and his wife just assumed he was working late again. He kept telling us all how he was going to retire down in the Bahamas. :/ Instead he died at his desk.
Tomorrow is not guaranteed.
Better than an alcoholic… joking aside, in general, women want a man who’s motivated/driven/able to support – this is a bad thing now? People in their 30’s should be “grinding” (even though I hate that word) and building a life foundation
Birds of the feather flock together
How far into your 30s? Around 32, I started taking my work more seriously and starting preparing for grad school. It’s easy to just live day by day as a single dude living with buddies. But once you start dating more seriously and getting older you start to buckle down.
I had also been in a long term relationship since I was 27/28 yr old too. I think the logic still applies once guys hit 30.
Single now but I dated for a couple months last year. During that time I worked a full time job, and ran 2 side hustles for 60 hour weeks….
Reason being I had a woman around to de stress with and do things with on a schedule. This made me a more productive person with work tasks because I could now handle a lot more stress. It gets tiring doing EVERYthing for yourself as a male, then going home to empty weekends to try to de stress yourself with food, video games or whatever. A comforting woman around really can make a huge difference.
Can’t say the same for my waist line as my diet went to crap due to so many dinner dates tho lol.
It’s likely a number of factors but one of them is that the relationship itself is triggering the man to take his work more seriously.
Regardless of gender norms that are practiced within the relationship, most men still feel like the “providing” must ultimately fall to them. In the same way that women often feel like parenting untimely falls to them, even if they have a partner who “helps” 50% of the time, the women is still the primary parent and the man the secondary. Even in situations where this distinction only exists within the mind of the women and all the actual parenting is 50/50 (or even 60/40 in favor of the man). Within her mind, parenting is her primary job and if her paid career job must be sacrificed for her parenting duties, so be it.
For a man, it’s basically the opposite. We want to feel like we can carry the whole family on our backs (financially). And only once we know we CAN do it, do we actually consider that we do not NEED to do it. But there in the back of our minds exists the thought, “if things take a turn, and she has to quit her job for the kids, I can financially support us alone”.
So what happens is that a man of a certain age gets into a serious relationship and all of a sudden the job that was fine when he was single is no longer fine. Not because of pressure (real or imagined) from her, but because of pressure he’s putting on himself to “be ready” for the future. So once his mind takes that turn, he doubles down on work as a way of showing commitment to the family that’s just starting to forum.
some people view this as a relationship motivating a man, and to a degree that’s true. It can also be true that once he feels “supported” at home he’s better able to take more risks at work and it’s those risks that’s motivating him. Regardless it all comes down to a man feeling the oblation to support the “family” and making changes in order to go that direction. It can best be thought of as the man’s version of nesting. When a women is nesting she’s essentially building the home to get ready to be occupied by a family, same with a man refocusing on career a bit more.
It only becomes a problem when things go overboard. You are likely seeing more of that than the average women because you are earning an above average salary. So the man is looking at the current family financial situation and telling himself “I need to be prepared to replace what she’s bringing in.” and since they can’t they are diving deeper into work so that they can earn better.
Age is also a factor. Most men in his 20s are just not really focusing on career very much. He gets into his 30s and all of a sudden it hits him “oh, this is it, I should be more serious” and he becomes more serious. Going out drinking the night before work moves from the “cool” bucket to the “that’s irresponsible, I have work that needs to get done tomorrow” bucket. That mind shift often occurs to men in their low 30s.
And add onto that many other factors that all contribute. You’re (I assume) a somewhat ambitious person, and are selecting that in the men you date. As an example, you’re not likely to consider dating a man who’s 35 lives with 3 roommates works minimum wage and smokes pot all day. One or two of those factors might be OK, but put all of them together and it’s just not the man who you want to date. That’s totally fine, I would not want to date a women like that, but it’s self selecting for a more ambitious man.
So even if you’re not looking for a meal ticket, you also are not willing to accept a lazy dude. (And that’s totally reasonable, no criterium from me on that factor).
Corporate life for men is different than women.
My guess and these are very general observations.
Men are more competitive in the workforce.
They see a future with you. They want to build resources for a potential family.
They’re at the stage of their career that if they’re not advancing their stagnating. It’s implicit in hiring practices that if your not advancing, then there is something wrong with you. That means your also most likely to be marked for being laid off.
If you look at the men higher up than you, what is their life like. Most likely the men that are married and have children, their wives have either left the workforce or transitioned to a less demanding career.
Emotionally avoidant
Something I’ve noticed with the girlfriend moving in is that a lot of the time I spent working on my own hobbies is now split between that and being an attentive partner. You mention specifically career stuff so not 1:1 there but figuring out how to balance time might be a part of the calculus.
Aside from that, at the end of my 20s I moved into management which is pretty typical, and this has led to me caring more about my job because if I fail, the people under me also get fucked over. This on top of any subconscious feelings of needing to be the provider if anything goes wrong does lead to a heavier focus on work. Definitely felt more comfortable bouncing back from a setback when it was only me that would be set back.
Something to consider.
When people first start dating, they tend to make time for the person they are dating which breaks their usual routine and typical work ethic. Once they become more comfortable with you, they will begin to return to their regular way of being which means less time focusing on you which you will perceive as them “turning into workaholics”, when they were likely already this way before dating you, they are now sacrificing less of that time that they made for you in the initial stages.
I swear women complain about anything.
Why am I dating a career driven man. Why do I only date bums. Can’t make them happy whichever direction we go in.
To answer your question get out of your circle of people that’s why.
Great insight on noticing that pattern. I’ve found that in our 30s, many men hit a switch. Purpose becomes more urgent, and drive kicks in hard. It’s always beneficial to talk openly about expectations before that momentum builds.
Behind very great man is a great woman. I believed this is a true statement because the woman is motivation to achieve greatness. A man will be content to sit on a stump and watch the day go by but he is motivate to provide and contribute to a good family.
A good woman makes the man stronger
Working all the time keeps the voices in my head from talking all the time
Having a motivated partner often makes you more motivated, you might be positively influencing them.
Or, maybe you make them feel inadequate and so they try to get ahead to live up to the perceived expectations you set. Still, a positive influence.
I see it in both genders but men more for sure (US here). I was dating a lot in 2024 (straight guy), and a lotta ladies just were okay with working 60+ hr weeks.
Definitely see it more in 30s, people hoping to retire, scared of losing their job and being in the shitty job market, or just like their job enough (wfh, etc) where its not a big deal.
Plus at least IMO, working 10 hr days from home > 8 hrs and 2 hrs of driving.
Life is expensive and bills don’t pay themselves.