I have been with my boyfriend for over 5 years. Over the course of the relationship, we talked about marriage sometimes. It was always a goal we had, but not something we felt the need to do ASAP. Lately as our lives and relationship has progressed, I felt more ready. I’m stable in my career, stable in life, and the relationship has been happy and stable. When I’d bring it up, he said ok, we will get there.
He’s recently been talking about wanting me to quit my birth control and try for kids. He’s also talked about us buying a house because we have a pretty decent amount of savings. I have told him I want to get married first before any of that. He usually says ok and we move on.
He brought both topics up again and I told him again, I want to be married before that. This time he told me he isn’t sure if he wants to get married anymore. I was confused and asked him why, what changed? He says it’s just a piece of paper and we don’t need it, he doesn’t want the government in our relationship. He says there isn’t a point.
I told him there is, it provides protections for both of us. If one of us gets in an accident, the other can make choices. It has tax benefits, benefits with job benefits like insurance. If we buy a house and something happens like death or god forbid a divorce, the other gets the house automatically after death and the house is dealt with during divorce.
I told him I don’t feel comfortable moving forward with kids and a house without the protections of marriage, for both of us. He thinks I am overreacting and it’s no big deal. That if I actually trusted him, I wouldn’t need marriage for kids and a house. I trust him more than anyone, but so much can happen, even with no one at fault. I’d like both of us to be protected before taking these next steps.
I’ve tried asking him why he changed his mind. He just keeps saying it’s because it’s just a piece of paper and he doesn’t want the government involved.
I won’t have kids or buy the house without marriage. Also nothing else has changed in the relationship or with his personality so I am confused by the sudden shift. Does anyone have any insight on what could’ve changed his mind? Am I missing something?
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So he doesn’t want to give his kids a stable home but rather they be bastards.
Wow.
He needs to grow up.
Probably met a guy who is going through a bad divorce
Nope. Hold your ground.
Marriage is “just a piece of paper” until things start going south. If you broke up, it would be a free for all over who’s entitled to joint accounts, and he would be in no way required to compensate you for any time taken off to birth/raise children.
You walk out the door
Dump him he’s 30 seconds from bc sabotage. That “it’s just a piece of paper” line is relationship death.
… he is lying to you. There is something else he is concerned about that he knows is a major red flag on his part so he is trying not to say it and just repeating the “it’s a piece of paper” line. My best guess is he’s gone a little more towards the alt right misogynist pipeline and his head is filled with fake stories about pretend evil ex wives stealing their innocent ex husbands money via alimony checks.
Do not get pregnant by a man who thinks children are somehow less of a big deal than marriage is. Do not get pregnant by a man who has made it clear he doesn’t see you as a permanent part of his life. Do not get pregnant by a man who thinks the protections marriage offers (particularly to women who are often forced to give up careers to raise children so the man can continue having a nice career and the easiest parts of parenting while doing practically no chores ever) deserves to be made homeless and on food stamps in the case of divorce.
You are right to point out what he is saying is bull shit. Keep that stance, and don’t let him talk you into giving up those rights and protections. He will not suffer the same consequences that you can and will when having children. Remember that, and if it means walking away and finding a better man, do it. You never ever want to regret the father of your kids.
Very very carefully crafted legal document. Often these are crafted by couples buying a house together or prenup. Yours would be more encompassing. Not a government document a legal one. If he does not agree to legal document it tells you all you need to know about how he takes responsibility and care he has of addressing your concerns and feelings. What does he think about something simple before a Justice of the Peace?
You guys don’t want the same things. Time to prepare to move on.
You’re missing nothing except the fact that your BF does not care enough about you or your potential kids to offer legal protection.
The government is in his life. If he wants them out of his life he will immediately cease driving a car – his licence is a piece of paper. He would not want a house – that involves government records including the deeds (another piece of paper). He would not shop – sales tax which is more government involvement.
He’s either stupid or just wants to potentially screw you over. Either way I’d walk away
No. Your retirement depends on your 10 year of marriage. No kids, so don’t go there. Might not matter now, but it will in your retirement.
Hold firm. No matter what anyone tells you, marriage is not just a piece of paper. It’s a very significant commitment to be there for the other person; to not run when turbulence hits; to love, honor, respect, and protect your special person.
If a person cannot devote themselves in a formal, legal way to you, they are not ready for children, home purchases, and years of your life in an intimate relationship.
Sadly, it sounds like it is time to end this relationship. Your special person will want the benefits that come with a loving, legal marriage. Your bf wants something else. Don’t waste any more years. You are still young enough to find someone new.
Married almost 35 years, btw.
I think he just doesn’t want marriage and if you do and it’s a deal breaker. Break up. If not then don’t get married, maybe have a cute ceremony. You can do all those protections other ways. Other than a tax break
He’s giving you more reasons not to trust him
Lmaooooo the moment someone tells me I don’t need to do something because I should trust them is the moment I do/get whatever the fuck it is they’re telling me I don’t need.
I wouldn’t have kids or buy a house without getting married, for the reasons you stated. Committing your DNA to someone for 18 years to life is a big thing; it’s upsetting that he expects you to commit to raising his kids but he won’t commit to your relationship. Pass for me. The one who has changed is him. He’s not giving you an answer because he doesn’t want to marry you, but he cannot say that and have you stay, he’s put in a lot of time and effort, he wants to reap some reward for that; if it was something – anything else – he’d be able to discuss it. Tell him nothing has changed on your end, you’ll have kids and a house with him if he marries you. If he doesn’t want to marry you he needs to understand then the relationship will not progess. He can decide he no longer wants to marry but that doesn’t mean you’ll be going along with that. You haven’t changed. He needs to figure out if he wants to marry you or not. It sounds like his answer is no though. In which case OP, someone needs to call this before you guys waste each others time any further.
marriage is only a piece of paper? well so is a prenup. you better protect yourself and any future children with a concrete prenup (without the nup). I would say I’m going to see a lawyer to see what I need to do to protect our assets and see what he says. and no matter what he says GO SEE THE LAWYER. You need to ask questions like what happens to our belongings if we split? If we stay together, without a marriage certificate how would we write our will? how do we divide assets for our future children? who would hold the legal rights for decision making (educational, financial, medical) for the children? etc etc etc. even if he changes his mind and wants to get married, i would 100% get a prenup. this guy sounds like a classic guy that takes advantage so you need to protect yourself if you decide to stay with him. Go into it with both eyes wide open otherwise you’ll find yourself being used and abused before being left for the next model.
Get out before he tampers with your birth control. You’re no longer aligned in life goals and the relationship is over. Thinking kids are less of a commitment than marriage is a MAJOR red flag and speaks to his character and how he feels about you. He is going to use you as a way to be able to afford a house and trap you even further with a baby. Run.
Sounds like you want different things, and aren’t compatible. I’d never get married again, but as a lawyer I also know how to legally structure my estate plan and ownership agreements that I know it isn’t necessary. But you want to be married. He doesn’t. You’re not aligned.
Marriage is more than a piece of paper. It’s a commitment. Not so easy to walk away when ur married. It also protects you and your family.
Dump him before he gets a chance to tamper with your birth control, whatever that might be. He’s hiding something.
He thinks kids are less of a commitment than marriage. Think about that.
If it’s no big deal to him then why is he refusing marriage. It’s just a piece of paper. Do not give in if this is how you feel. It may be time to move on if you can’t agree.
I would never, ever have children or buy a house with a man I was not married to.
If a man can’t commit to me legally as well as all the other ways he needs to, to be someone I would have children with, or mix money with… no. No way I am doing those life altering things with him. Hell no.
If it’s just a piece of paper to him then why is he so against it? And what sort of involvement does he think the government will have in your relationship?
It’s not just a “piece of paper” TO YOU!
If it’s just a piece of paper wtf is his problem then? He doesn’t want to do such simple and meaningless things to make you happy?
Yea right
Never have children or joint own property with someone you aren’t married to. If something happens during the pregnancy you will be taking on all the financial risk alone. Say you get very injured by the pregnancy and can’t work for a long time, he owes you nothing, he could walk away and leave you disabled with no financial backup. If you are married at least you can split any assets he was able to earn during that period and likely get some temporary alimony until you can get back to work. Its just such a huge risk, he wants you to bear it alone.
TIts also harder to deal with homeownership if not married an you ever split. People get stuck on mortgages with ex’s all the time, at least if you are divorcing they can force the sale of the house.
It is just a paper, a very important paper. It’s probably time to shit or get off the pot of this relationship.
PLEASE say you’re using good birth control.
He wants all the benefits of marriage with none of the risk, which he wants to put on you.
Girl don’t trust that man. He does not have your best interest.
No marriage, no buying a house or having children, you’ve said it. Now just let him understand you mean it. Do not back down, it’s much more than a piece of paper to you, why is he changing his mind five years in?
He never changed his mind. He never wanted to get married to begin with.
Think about it…when you spoke up about marriage did he ever enthusiastically agree and want to begin planning or did he Always put you off?
If it’s “just a piece of paper,” he shouldn’t mind getting it. He has a reason for not marrying you, and I don’t think he’s being honest about it. I suspect he’s been listening to manosphere influencers who talk about marriage as a financial trap for men.
But having kids is a financial trap for women. It’s a huge financial risk, as is buying a house with another person, and you should do neither without the legal protections of marriage.
Why is he willing to prioritise his ideas about marriage over what you are worthy of?
You are worthy of being respected and having your desires fulfilled.
Does he think a marriage will cost too much and derail the savings you have accumulated?
Do not have children with him. He has no care for your wishes or desires. He only sees what he wants. He doesn’t see you.
Take it from someone who was a single mother all her life. DO NOT DO IT.
I think you should just be more honest about why you want to get married. I’d rather hear that my girl wants to get married because she wants financial protection than hear some bs line about how “it’s gonna protect both of us”. If I heard that manipulative line I would not want to get married either.
If my girlfriend said “look, I know that maybe it’s stupid, but I want to get married because of the social optics. It feels like a milestone that I have always wanted. Most importantly, I don’t want bastard children. I want my kids’ parents to be married and for our nuclear family to be their normal environment.”
Those are arguments that a man can wrap his head around. Telling him that marriage will benefit him a ton will come across as dishonest and will only make him more skeptical.
He probably went along with whatever you were saying even though he knew he didn’t want to be married. He just hoped you’d either change your mind or figured you could be manipulated into doing it his way. Now you know. You two don’t want the same things. Time to go so you can find your person.
If it’s just a piece of paper, it shouldn’t be a big deal to do it, then.
He wants all of the benefits for himself with none of the protections for you.
Both my husband and I lost one of our parents in the same year. They were both in relationships with people they were not married to. We saw firsthand that their partners had ZERO rights; no right to life insurance, no right to make decisions about the funeral… neither one was even allowed to view the body in the hospital.
We both used to think that it was “just a piece of paper” until we saw just how important that paper could be when you DIDN’T have it. We got married the next summer.
The whole “well if you trust me you dont need it” excuse is absolute BS. It’s not about that, and a lot of people trust their spouses and still end up getting cheated on or they grow apart- and one eventually dies.
Legal laws. Private legal documents crafted by attorneys who are not government employees or paid by tax payers.
Buying a home with someone you aren’t married to is a terrible idea
It’s manosphere stuff. He’s been convinced that divorce always screws men. Just say, “Sure, honey. Just so you know, any kids we have when we’re not married will get MY last name.” Watch the reaction.
I’m so sorry, but he doesn’t love you. If he did he would be trying to marry you as soon as he possibly could. Time to cut your kisses and find a man who can’t wait to marry you. Don’t settle for being a loser’s baby mama.
OP – you’re being smart. No pregnancy or house till you’re legally married.
Question: how often does he tell you that you are overreacting? From reading your side of the story, it sounds like you are clearly and honestly stating your needs and boundaries. The fact that he is willing to dismiss that by saying you are overreacting is a red flag.
He’s also accusing you of not trusting him. Wrong. Don’t fall for this guilt trip.
You are correct, marriage is not just a piece of paper, it does provide protections to both spouses. It also makes it much more difficult to end the relationship when you hit a rough patch. (I have been married 25 years and yes, there have been rough patches.)
Consider offering a prenup. Men get raked over the coals in divorce and women get the kids too. There’s not much logical reason for men to get married anymore, it mostly benefits women. If you really don’t care about getting a big alimony then consider offering a prenup as an olive branch.
You are not wrong.
Red flag if he doesn’t back down.
Also tell him “the gubberment” also gives tax breaks for filing jointly, among various other benefits.
He is obviously not trusting you with the reasons for this perspective. You even know his argument doesn’t stand up, and it is disrespectful to you.
If it’s just a piece of paper it shouldn’t be a big deal for him to get it.
In some countries your Bf would be correct. Because in those countries you would have all that security simply by cohabiting for a certain amount of time.
In America however you absolutely need the security of marriage to ensure safety like you said.
Assuming you are in America, STAND YOUR GROUND.
But also Op, regardless of the security aspect, if you want to be married before kids that’s absolutely fair and reasonable! And if he doesn’t then you two aren’t compatible.
The government’s more involved in his tax return than a marriage, so his statement doesn’t actually ring true. After the registration of the marriage, the government’s no longer involved.
I wonder how he’d feel about any future children having your surname?
At the end of the day, your future goals are no longer compatible, so you both need to decide ifvthisxisca deal breaker.
Don’t give him the wifey experience without a ring on your finger
Oh, he doesn’t want the government involved, but he has no problem whatsoever making you a single mother with no protections should he die prematurely or become disabled. OP, please don’t waste any more of your youth on this man who is a commitment phobe and will only continue to string you along with lame excuses and delaying tactics.
He knows what he wants after five years and it is NOT marrage to you.
Just a piece of paper is some pretty weak bs.
She’s listening to bro podcasts. They try to convince dudes that things like marriage are pieces of paper and shit like that.
But you’re the one who is right.
You need to be married bc if something happens like you break up you have no protection in a breakup like you would in a divorce.
He doesn’t see the need bc he’s trying to get all the benefits of marriage(you, kids) without the responsibility of marriage(alimony if divorced).
He should see that you have no protection for your investment and to invest without protection is stupid and short sighted.
Stick to your decisions. No playing house until he man ups. Thing is at his age he should be definite about marriage. If he’s against it completely you’ll need to leave . Also I don’t trust him. Keep your birth control safely by you and don’t let him give you a ring and then pick a date a year and a half from now , and then he’ll get you pregnant because you’ll think a wedding is coming up, and then he will cancel the wedding plans as all he wanted was the baby.
There’s a lot of discourse on Reddit lately amongst men claiming there is no reason for men to get married because marriage does not benefit them in any way. I wonder how many men are influenced by seeing that message repeatedly. The points you make about marriage are correct and valid. I’d accept that people change and he either a)mislead you to continue the relationship or b) changed his mind over time, either way it makes you incompatible for a sustainable relationship. Don’t fall into a sunken fallacy trap. You still have a few years to find marriage and children if that’s what you want.
Stand your ground.
It’s not just a piece of paper. It’s a ceremony where you stand in front of friends and family and promise to be faithful to each other.
Some locations have defacto rules that kick in for the legal side of things without the paper, but if the idea of standing in front of witnesses and promising “in sickness and in health” scares him, maybe he’s not ready for more. See if you can find relationship counselling.
Just tell him, under republican rule, as a single pregnant woman doctors can refuse you care. You need to be married to get medical care. Don’t say I’m wrong. It’s the new reality .
https://wellsrachelm.substack.com/p/pregnant-woman-in-tennessee-denied Exclusive: Pregnant Woman in Tennessee Denied Care for Being Unmarried
Updateme
If he doesn’t want “the government” in it, ask if he’d be okay with signing a notarized legal agreement just between the two of you that establishes what happens in different scenarios such as divorce, major health changes, or death etc. (like a prenup or business partner arrangement).
If he’s not okay with that idea either (which I suspect he wouldn’t), then you know it’s not about “the government,” it’s about him not wanting to make a commitment. If he is okay with that, then maybe that’s something worth thinking about? (esp. if your area’s government recognizes common law marriage for people living together anyways)
I would give one more chance at a heart to heart about his reasons. I wouldn’t spring it on him, but rather schedule the talk so there is no excuse for him to not have his thoughts collected.
If he pulls the piece of paper line, you know he not only won’t marry you, but doesn’t feel you deserve to know the real reasons.
It is good you plan to hold your ground.
If you want marriage and he doesn’t, this is not the relationship for you
Just say “sorry but those are wife things and I’m not your wife”
Don’t waste another 5 years
“you don’t trust me” is a very manipulative and ironically a statement being made when he is acting shifty. imho the whole “don’t want the government involved” sounds very red-pill coded and like he thinks marriage is some sort of attack on male rights has he gotten into podcasts lately?
How about this… I suggest you both take 1-2 weeks to do the research on what marriage as a legal contract means in your state. You already understand the key points. He needs to do the work to support his points. Let him make his case to you with facts. Marriage and family is about love and dreams but it’s about a lot more. It’s work and once you have children it’s 100 percent commitment to get them to 18 or realistically 22 as an unbreakable team. This conversation is practice for the many disconnects you will have over the next 25 years. It starts here. I wish you luck!
he’s not against marriage he just doesn’t want to marry you. after five years and no proposal i’d think you would have already figured that out. kids can be coparented. a house can get sold. but a lot of people only want to get married to someone they see as a permanent fixture in their lives and you aren’t that for him.
When it comes to the relationship, your wants matter too. He doesnt want to get married, you do. You two are no longer compatible.
I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. You’ve got an entire life planned together, and have discussed children & marriage. A future that you thought you both wanted, but suddenly he’s so sketchy he’s afraid to marry you? If it wasn’t a big deal, you’d already be married. You should move on and find someone that has similar life goals. Time is precious. Every moment you spend nursing your indecision costs you both time that is being wasted. Not only should you find someone with similar goals, he should also. There are lots of women out there that are also scared of marriage that will shack up with him. You and your future children deserve better. You deserve to find your person. He also deserves to find his person.
You’ve been together 5 years. The entire time he was pretending to want something he didn’t. That would feel very manipulative to me. I’ll never understand why people do that to themselves when life & love are so much easier when you’re not pretending to be someone you’re not.
I’m proud of you for knowing your worth. And for standing firm on the future you want and the expectations you have about it. Love yourself enough to know that you deserve more, and so does he. Good luck. I’ll be sending you light & love across the miles. 🫂
Edited for typos & clarity.
No. Just no. Don’t do it.
I feel like hes hiding something from his past that you dont know about. The more serious you got about marriage the more it occurred to him that he couldnt because of… what? A failed marriage that he never actually divorced? Some kind of legal trouble that he hasn’t disclosed? Something isn’t right here.
The cool thing about not being in a marriage for men is that they can just up and leave you with the kids and never be heard from again. He won’t be financially responsible for anything.
Do not ever buy a house with somebody you aren’t married to. It is a recipe for financial disaster.
No one here is a mind reader to figure out WHY he changed his mind and neither are you. Don’t stress yourself over that because no answer will ever be sufficient enough. This issue now is you having to decide what YOU are going to do, that decision is yours alone based on what you want for your future. I realize you’ve invested 5 yrs in the relationship but if you want more and his choice doesn’t allow that, you’ll have to let that investment go.
You’re entitled to feel the way you do, because if it’s ’just a piece of paper’ he should have no issue signing it. Not wanting a wedding I understand – with the costs and attention – but saying no marriage when it’s important to your partner? Nope. You’re going to do the biggest thing mentally and physically that a person can go through (having a child) and he can’t sign a piece of paper? Ridiculous.
I’m guessing if he dies he probably won’t be around to testify to anything about the relationship.
He is right, of course. You don’t have to be married.
But if you aren’t, and anything at all happens whether either of you get sick or either of you die –
Legal fees will eat up so much of settling the estate there really won’t be much, if anything, left for the kids and remaining spouse.
He needs to grow up and have the maturity to act like an adult, period.