Hey everyone, I could use some outside perspective.
My boyfriend (we’ve been dating a minute and engagement talks have been happening) has a very tense relationship with his mom. She’s extremely enmeshed with him, texts him constantly, and gets upset when he isn’t home as much as she wants. From what I’ve seen, she doesn’t want to hear about his life outside of her and has openly said she doesn’t want to know me or be friends with me. She only ever refers to me as “that girl”, let alone want to know my name. He says that she’s been like this with his exes as well.
Recently, she was blowing up his phone one night. He handed me the phone and told me to say whatever I wanted.
For some context we’re both in the same academic program, and she likes to try and use the with your support system card when he isn’t home and she wants him to be. I responded politely but firmly, saying that a support system is exactly that — a system, and just as she and his dad are part of his, so are other people in his life (including me). Since then, she’s gone radio silent and hasn’t spoken to him at all.
He says he doesn’t care about her opinions of me, and he’s more than willing to stand up to her — but they’re known to get into yelling matches when she pushes. He’s quick to stick up for me, and nothing rules him up more than when someone is knocking me. I worry that if she makes dismissive jabs about me (like “that girl”), he’ll snap and it’ll just escalate. For context, his dad mostly goes along with whatever she says, so she’s the primary force he interacts with when he goes home.
I don’t want to be pushy, but I also don’t want her to succeed at using me as bait to rile him up. We’re both serious about our future together, and I’d like to navigate this in a way that doesn’t burn everything down but also doesn’t let her walk all over boundaries.
How do you handle a situation like this? Do I lean into Southern-belle politeness when I eventually meet her, do we try to build alliances with his dad/grandma first, or do we just keep her at a distance and not play into her games?
Any advice from people who’ve been through something similar would be really appreciated.
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This woman won’t change. I had a MIL who wouldn’t acknowledge me and I thought once we were married and part of the family she would include me. I naively, assumed she wanted to make sure I was permanent, rather this behavior was a warning of the terrible treatment to come. You see the enmeshment and unhealthy relationship between them, imagine this when married and with children. Your boyfriend was very immature to include you in that conversation. That only served to put you in the middle and make things worse.
Your BF is standing up for you, so let him. You can be polite when you meet so own son behavior is above approach and she will either calm down so her son isn’t mad, or she continues to be an ass. If so, let him snap. The likely outcome is that you won’t have to deal with her anymore, and he can’t even be mad at you for pushing for it because it would have been his choice
Sounds like you should let him snap. She needs to hear what he thinks of her. You don’t need to be in the middle of it. She has shown no desire to meet or get to know you, so return the favor to her.
I guarantee she’ll flip her lid and trying to ruin any engagement/wedding so make sure she’s not invited. Either that or she’ll all of a sudden pour on the fake niceness (doubtful she can pull that off) and put on a good “mother of the groom” show for all the friends and family.
This is the kind of woman who will only ever be nice to you if she wants/needs something (access to future grandkids, etc). Never forget who she is right now because that’s her true self. Sounds like your boyfriend should be going fully no contact if that’s even possible.
He needs therapy. He needed it yesterday.
It was inappropriate of him to hand the phone over. He needs help with figuring out how to get out of the cycle, because she knows she can rile him up. He doesn’t need to figure out how to stand up for you, he needs to grow up and learn how to quit letting his mom control him and be comfortable with letting her have her own feelings when she’s upset.
Don’t meet her until he’s started therapy. She doesn’t want to meet you.
In the meantime, if you’re the “bait” tell him to quit standing up for you. So when she calls you “that girl” he should just ignore it, or if she’s riling him up, he should say “you don’t know her and she’s not relevant to this situation so I’m not discussing her with you.” When she tries to keep going with things like “I don’t have to know her/she IS relevant/well you wouldn’t do XYZ if it weren’t for her” he should repeat himself. “I already said I’m not discussing her with you, do we can either discuss <topic from before> or the conversation is done.” When she gets upset, he should say “ok, you aren’t listening so I’m hanging up/going to take a walk now.” Another tactic he could use is asking her “what are you hoping to achieve right now? Will this actually help achieve that goal?” Asking questions puts her kn the defensive position. He needs to get off the same old script they always use for fighting.
Now for you: if this was any other adult would you allow them to treat you this way?
If he asks you to speak to his mom, tell him no. She doesn’t want to hear from you. Do not agree to meet any of his family until he has started therapy. Do not try to meet her until she’s ready. That means if she refuses before the wedding, she doesn’t get an invitation.
And if she caves and meets you, remember that you can forgive a snake for biting you, but you don’t go and snuggle it. She’s bitten your boyfriend. So you treat her with polite detachment, if she’s rude, you ask her “can you try that again? That kind of language is beneath me.” And if she calls you “that girl” you say “I’m not going to be treated this way, and I’m going home. MIL, please remember that the way you treat me now will influence the role you have in the life of your grandchildren. Let me know when you’re ready to apologize.”
You just be yourself and let him handle her, because unlike most of the SOs we see there, he seems willing to throw down to defend you. The advice I have is actually for him.
Your mother is going to start getting more desperate as your relationship gets more serious. She needs you to need her, and as talks of marriage continue, she will likely try even harder to turn your attention back to her. Before any wedding planning begins, you need to sit your mother down and tell her (not ask, not discuss, tell her) that her behavior will not be tolerated, and that she will accept the changes in his life if she wants to continue being part of it. Yelling at her isn’t going to change things, because she’s still getting attention, which is exactly what she wants. What she needs is a lack of attention. She needs to be cut off for several months so that she can see exactly what her attitude is leading to. During that time, she needs to seek therapy to deal with her attachment issues. If she improves during that time, then you can slowly reestablish a relationship with her, setting clear boundaries and expectations along the way. If she doesn’t, or if she starts to backslide into her current behavior, then you need to extend the break.
Obviously, this all needs to be delayed if you’re dependent on them in some way.
I think you should avoid her at all costs. His shouting matches on the phone. . . tell your SO to leave you out of it.
That said, how does that work long term? You’re thinking of becoming engaged to this guy, how will holidays work? Is he ready to cut her off if she can’t get her head out of her ass? Will he never go home again because she refuses to acknowledge the existence of his wife? This needs to be sorted before you can consider yourself a serious couple, much less marriage.
“She’s extremely enmeshed with him” She can’t be “enmeshed with him” as enmeshment is a CO-dependent state, not a one sided issue. It takes two to tango on that one so make sure he’s ready to be an independent adult before you consider him your life partner.
Well, damn. She sounds absolutely f-ing batshit. Way beyond your run of the mill personality disordered JNMIL. That she is openly and transparently behaving this way with no guile or effort to hide her crazy is interesting. His dad’s enabling of her behavior is also super concerning.
Not sure what to say, other than this woman has no filter, no boundaries, and does not appear to have any intention to conform herself to societal norms. You appear to be dealing with someone with no intention of ever reigning herself in. This absolutely does not bode well if your boyfriend intends to maintain a relationship with her.
IMO she’s not a normal JNMIL. She is next level at best, maybe even significantly mentally ill. I’m afraid the usual advice may not work in this situation.
Maybe I’m overreacting to what you have in your post, but my spidey sense is telling me you should get the hell out of Dodge.
i’d say keep distance till you and your bf are absolutely rock-solid about your plan to handle it. if you spend time with her, be polite, gracious, and a little detached – not anxious to please. she will clearly never be pleased… except by tormenting her son and watching you grovel. you know you’re lovely, you know you make your boyfriend better, and she shouldn’t be able to shake that knowledge by making shit up.
i wil say, though, that your boyfriend yelling in your defense is not inherently bad. yelling at people who treat us like garbage is perfectly okay. we’re taught to freeze, smile politely, and tolerate abuse because it makes us easier to control.
what’s more important is whether your boyfriend can control a conversation while angry, which is actually way harder than just losing your temper. imo this is where to focus – not getting wrapped up in nonsense arguments whether they’re whispered or screamed.
He still lives with her?
If engagement does happen, live with him for a good long while before following through.
Woweeee! She’s… going to be hard work…
First of all this is your bf’s fight, not yours!
She is obsessed with her son. Calling you “that girl” is very rude and disrespectful. Imagine if you, or one of the exes, was calling her “that old woman”. A point your BF can raise to her. She must not use you as a pawn. She may not have to love you but she must show respect and kindness. This should be non negotiable!
Her husband also appears to be a pushover when it comes to her. He really should be helping better the situation (nothing you can do about that, however).
Go for it – kill them with kindness! Charm them but also be cool (not trying too hard) and assertive (with boundaries and manners). No matter what you do, her feathers will always be ruffled. But, if it crashes, then walk away knowing you tried your best.
We always put our best foot forward, as women, but often at the expense of ourselves. You need to have boundaries in place right from jump.