I posted here months ago about some relationship issues with my gf of now 4 years and got some great advice (thank you), which led us to do couples therapy. We’ve made progress, but little conflicts/reminders keep popping up, and I’d love some advice on if the issue, as it stands, is still a problem.
To recap, my girlfriend and I always had different views on finances and money. I’m a saver, she’s a spender; she likes nice things, I can get by without much. She has this belief that a guy should provide more financially and it’s culturally deeply ingrained in her. Her mom – who’s the family closest to her – instilled that feeling in her, and they both have a lot of resentment toward her dad, who was a decent guy but was complacent and didn’t hustle to make a lot of money. I have a more of an egalitarian mindset – I know responsibilities are never practically split down the middle, but as far as ingoing expectations, I feel like it’s a fair starting point.
These differences led to issues in the past. For example, she had expectations of a $30k engagement ring (which rubbed me the wrong way); while she was still in medical school she expected me to spend on a lot of things I usually wouldn’t; and throughout our relationship it would always be difficult to get her to pay me back when she owed me money.
She’s a very hard worker – she’s a doctor now, and will be a general practitioner in a couple years. But, she also has massive loans to pay off, and her mom – who’s at retirement age – has zero savings and needs her daughter to take care of her financially.
We started doing therapy, and it felt like we were making a lot of progress for a couple months! She said she didn’t care about the ring, and would be ok with my job in the future as long as it was a respectable one – she loved me and that’s what mattered the most. But as time continued, little things keep popping up that suggest those core values are still there. For example, I’ve spent the last year working on starting a business (it’s going well but cashflow is still less than when I was working) and she’s shown frustration/disappointment that I don’t have a fulltime job that’s bringing in a higher paycheck; and she owes me a bit of money, but pays me back very begrudgingly, even though she makes enough to do so and buys nice things for herself.
When we revisited these issues, she said that she does still believe that a man should provide, and doesn’t feel like it’s a wrong belief; that she understands I can’t afford an expensive ring right now, but that if I did have a lot of money, she feels expecting a $30k ring would be reasonable; and that ideally, she’d take care of her mom and be with someone who takes care of her. But, she loves me, knows what my beliefs are, and really wants to be with me regardless of all that – she knows she can’t have every single thing she wants.
I’m a hard worker, and I care about my career, but I’m worried that if she feels this – deep down – it may be a point of contention and a resentment breeder regardless. For one, the expectation hurts. I actually do have a strong instinct in me to want to take care of my family and provide, but something about it being an expectation doesn’t sit well – if I provide a lot, I’m just meeting what’s expected of me. Secondly, I’m scared it’ll keep coming up. There’s pressure to keep up with the type of money she makes; I’m worried that if my career stalls or flounders, she’ll lose respect for me. Even if I do really well, she might harbor a feeling that her income is her money, and my income is our money – there may be tensions if I wanted to, say, switch into a job I was happier in but made less money, or save up and retire a few years early. Additionally, things could get messy in terms of expectations of taking care of her mom.
I wanted to ask all of you with more life experience than me for advice. We’ve made progress, and my gf wants to be with me regardless of who I am, but still harbors certain wants/beliefs deep down which leads to little things that keep popping up. Is this one of those scenarios you feel will get worse and cause a rift, or something that feels surmountable given the progression and fact she very much wants to be with me despite knowing my financial views? Are there things I’m not considering or thinking properly about?
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I feel they are insurmountable. People I’ve known with your girlfriend’s mindset never changed. Just like her mom.
Where is her father in the situation?
Did he die or split?
This sounds concerning for the long haul. There’s a basic mismatch here and it’s going to be exacerbated in the future when her physician peers are marrying other physicians (or similarly high-earning partners). You’ll have to decide if you want to meet her expectations. I don’t see much evidence that she’s changed her mindset.
Dude you’re going to go through life supporting not just her but her mother too because both have the same irresponsible attitude when it comes to money. And to clarify when I say ‘you’ll’ be supporting her mother I mean gf/wife will be and you won’t have access to her money or any say in how she spends that money because every decision she makes with ‘her’ money will be the ‘right’ decision.
I’m a saver and my wife is a spender. It has worked out……poorly.
As a therapist, I can tell you that disagreements about spending are very high on the list of things that break up relationships. These are opinions she’s been steeped in for a very long time and I don’t see any evidence that fundamentally she’s changed her mind about them. Is she likely to? I doubt it. Is it a serious issue in a relationship? Yes. Ask yourself: how would you feel if this was still causing contention in five years? In ten years?
If you don’t agree on the big things like money it’s not going to work. One will spend what the other saved.
I can feel your angst reaching through your words. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Like others, this seems insurmountable to me. Somewhere out there is a woman who shares your values. Our relationship with money, whether we like it or not, is a core value, and one formed in our childhood. Her values around money are clearly quite different from yours. $30k for an engagement ring? I can’t even imagine. But what really cemented my belief this issue is insurmountable is where you said her income is her money, and your income if both your money. That’s a huge problem for me. I hope you make the right decision for you.
I don’t think anyone can answer this question.
She’s honest with you and you fear for the future – you’d want what? For her to not be honest with you because her word that she knows she can’t have everything she wants isn’t good enough for you? You either believe and trust her when she says that or you don’t.
I think at this point you either take a leap of faith or you don’t – IMO partners should be able to have compartmentalized conversations, a wish list doesn’t have to be something you take that personally.
But no one can tell you if this will make or break you guys down the road. I also want to tell you not to have kids but honestly kids sometimes get people’s heads out of their asses. And I’ve often seen couples grow out of this kind of thing as they mature in a marriage.
But it’s just impossible to say what is in her mind or your future.
Is your therapy focused on being a team? Taking care of family is part of being a team for a lot of people. I get that it’s not something you are into, it’s one of the many reasons I’m wary of combining my life with another person.
I’d also suggest how strong do you feel having an undercurrent in your marriage that someone compromised their instilled values while mom is around making it two against one?
I’ve not been in this situation but I’ve been in a situation where I couldn’t shake my irritation that a compromise felt like I wasn’t asking for much and my BF felt like he was giving up so much. This seems like it might be a similar situation – her nudging towards egalitarianism is some big sacrifice while for you it’s what’s needed to be a real team.
In my case I felt really annoyed that I was coming from a place of having a functional relationship and he was coming from a place of thinking it made sense he should be able to have his cake and eat it too, but begrudgingly agreed not to for me. It didn’t work out.
I’d have run for the hills when I heard $30k engagement ring (and I’m a woman lol). I don’t think you guys are compatible.
I feel the only solution is to have separate finances. Has she graduated from med school? she should be able to make a good living when she does. Have you contributed to her education.
You can both contribute a certain amount to joint finances, with an agreement what it is spent on. (rent or mortgage, utilities, groceries etc.) and contribute equally to major expenditures, (or prorated by income).
Her attitude also brings up a couple of questions: would she be with you if you didn’t earn so much? If you lost your job, would she stay by you? What about saving for retirement.
In fact, in this scenario, the higher saver can lose out, because if you divorce, those savings are joint property, but an engagement ring may not be, and all those expensive things are not exactly liquid assets.
You may want a pre-nup or other way to protect your assets if you stay in this relationship.
Money, sex, communication — are the three things that cause divorce. Unless you’re married separate finances.
Do not marry someone if you’re not in the same page on these three things.
She’s going to lead you into bankruptcy.
She is always going to be disappointed and will start thinking she should have held out and done better. I’m sorry. This is going to implode when she decides she wants to be part time after you have kids but you can’t afford it.
I do have money. I earned and saved all my working life. If a significant other suggested there was ever a need on Earth for a $30k ring, and that I should be buying it as a mere PROMISE, I would run, not walk.
If Ms. MD wants expensive jewelry, fine. She’s perfectly entitled to earn the money and buy it for HERSELF. Conversely, I’m entitled to consider that a truly effed-up set of values.
Our wedding rings (31 years coming up) were made from gold chains we each contributed and had melted down. Part of the gold paid for the making and engraving. The rest is the rings themselves, which we designed. They cost us nothing, no money at all. We’re partners. Allies. Our life together is a co-equally shared enterprise, to which we contribute our separate skills and resources.
And BTW, when we travel we don’t wear them. I wear a pretty $18 stainless steel ring with gears on it that I bought at a steampunk festival. She wears one of those vintage ’70s sterling silver rings made out of the stem of a spoon. If we got robbed, we can handle the loss financially and emotionally.
Don’t marry her!!!! Her love for money supercedes her love for you, unfortunately!
Yes.
She’s only going to want more-either she gets on board with the way you look at finances or she can live with her mom. Nothing is ever going to be enough for this diva-sorry. Make your boundaries and KEEP them.
Get out NOW and do not let her baby-trap you! I can’t believe chicks like this still operate. Pay your own bills like the rest of us, Sister.
NQA I’m sorry to say this but cut your losses now. I feel that you have some incompatible issues regarding values.
My husband always made more than me. He was a chemical engineer, then an actor. I was an optician and then a legal interpreter.
Even though he never flinches at an expensive dinner, we live conservatively because I’ve always felt more secure knowing that if I needed to live without him, I could afford to support myself without kids, roommates, parents, etc. He has never said I couldn’t buy something – on the contrary, sometimes he has encouraged a splurge which I ultimately couldn’t justify. One example is I never order anything at a restaurant expensive or not- that I can replicate (and sometimes improve) at home. It doesn’t make sense to me.
Even though he hasn’t always agreed, I believe over time he has come to respect my conservatism. (A few years back when many of our friends invested in a Ponzi scheme, we didn’t. For a short time we both envied a few things and questioned our choices- until we didn’t.) Some lost their homes -and their lifestyles were irreparably damaged. Some friends ends were divorced over this. Some were bankrupted; a few came out stronger. We were affected by the economy but for the most part- our lifestyle (and marriage) remained the same.
I believe there are some non-negotiables in a marriage: politics, children, finances, religion and in laws. I’m not saying they are insurmountable but for things to work in spite of all of above, you must be on the same page regarding your WANTS and your NEEDS.
A ring is so unimportant if you consider being able to pay $30K for a ring or being able to pay $27K out of pocket for a car or a life changing surgical procedure.
I feel you need someone with their feet as firmly planted as yours. The longer you wait – the harder it will be for both of you to find “your people.”
BTW, hubs and I together since 1986- 5 kids- 12 grand kids, 2 dogs and a squirrel.
I have accrued some REALLY nice pieces of jewelry over the years that I thought I wanted. Now I’m wondering which kid wants what. The truth is I hardly ever wear them. The diamond engagement rings catches on everything and gets in the way when I shoot. The signature pendants bang against tables or catch on the edges. The bracelets catch on sleeves and clang on desks. The baby squirrel had recently discovered he likes to chew on my hoop earrings so there’s that.
I believe if you stay together- and you sound like you would in spite of the red flags – you need to revisit and explain all of this to each other again.
Use my examples. My insurance wouldn’t pay for a laser procedure bc it didn’t exist in their code book yet. I am SOOO happy that we were able to write that check, instead of having to pawn a ring. You sound like the kind of guy most women don’t appreciate until their second marriage. Don’t worry. You are still somebody’s perfect person. Don’t settle. Good luck to both of you.
If she wants money instead of a partner this relationship won’t work anyway. She needs to find a bank and you need a better partner.
This is a recipe for divorce, and likely bankruptcy. Unclear which order.
I can’t understand in this age how anyone can accept that 2 fully functional working adults would expect the man to be the main provider.
If I were in your shoes, I’d cut my losses and RUN! I’ve seen couple who were like you guys. Sometimes he was the spendthrift and she was the saver, other times it was the opposite. There was always friction about their finances. Wifey and I both grew up poor. Even before we were married, we were on the same page when it came to money. I’m not saying we didn’t have other issues from time to time but money was never one of them.
If I recall correctly, finances is one of the top three reasons couples divorced.
I’ve seen this type of situation before with a close friend. There was a lot of disagreement and resentment that just built over the years regarding finances.
The 30k ring is a warning shot. ⚠️
I was a saver married to a spender and I left before the stress gave me a stroke. The only way I made it that long was by getting my own account. I think most savers have a need for security and you will not be happy.
I’m in a very similar situation except I’ve been married for 15 years and I am the primary breadwinner. I’m realizing now as I’m facing some serious surgery to save my life that I’m only worth what I provide to my narcissistic wife. She spends time and money on whatever she wants which is anything besides the relationship. I’m seriously considering ending the marriage because I’m going to end up taking care of my own self so why have the frustration of a spouse making surviving cancer harder.
You two are probably not compatible I feel. Personally I think her and her mom’s take it nuts!!
She hasn’t changed at all. If you stay with her. You will be paying for everything. She will be spending ‘her’ money on herself and her mom.
Sorry, but this is a one sided relationship. And it will remain so.
Yes it is an insurmountable issue. It isn’t just that you like to save and she likes to spend. It is her mindset that she deserves to be taken care of. A person capable of putting themselves through medical school doesn’t need to be taken care of. And the fact that her mother has no retirement is no one’s fault but her own.
The problem will not be that her money is her money and your money is your money. The problem will be that her money AND your money is her money.
I don’t think this is something that can change. People fall into two camps when it comes to this stuff and you guys are on opposite ends – you’re just financially incompatible. I’m shocked you let it go on for 4 years. As a woman in the dating world, this type of compatibility is something I try to figure out in the first 3-4 dates
Money management is no small part why I divorced my spendthrift first wife…..and no small part why I married my second wife.
Wife #2 praises me even now that we’ve been together for more than a decade that one of the things that she was attracted to her way back when was that i wasn’t attracted to nor cared for shiny things like new luxury German cars…even though I could have afforded one. I was driving a 10+ year old Civic at the time we met.
This is a different set of values you both have and it is a very serious consideration in relationships. It could be worked through and it is certainly encouraging that you’re in therapy, but it’s also important to recognize that this may be a deal breaker. It sounds like she has expectations that, on the surface, are about money. I think this goes far deeper than that. As a physician, when she chooses to have a child, is she going to take a year off, and expect you to support her, and the child and lifestyle in the way that she can? Without her full income? She’s going to resent that she cannot have extra help to give her a break, and at some point that’s going to be about your inability to provide.
The preg/child is an example. This could be any number of scenarios where she is less employed and your level of income is a fall-back, in her eyes. If she is sick, needs time off to care for her mom, etc.
Financial outlook and values are serious. Actual income is less a factor than how each person views that income and it’s role in their lives.
My advice: continue counseling. Take a step back and view this without emotion and history involved. See her and yourself as you are, not any imagined optimism for what it could be.
She could be fully transparent in her statements that she doesn’t care about the income, and she just hasn’t realized the realistic implications of that. She may just not see the facts, as they are and has her head buried…you both need to get honest with yourselves, and then each other, leaving emotions out of it.